A Neuroscientist Explains Neuronic: Near-Infrared Light Therapy for Focus, Sleep & Brain Health

WELCOME TO EPISODE 281

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Freddie Kimmel (00:01.038)
Take 17, welcome to the beautifully broken podcast. Ramona, so nice to have you in my home. Cheers. Ah, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for the invite, Freddie. It is an honor. I'm honored. But I'm honored because you're my first neuroscientist that's been on site. Ah, I was going say, that's not true. You've definitely interviewed neuroscientists, but maybe just not in your home, next to you. Yeah, yeah. Less than two feet away. In my attic.

Yes. In the loft space. Ramona, if we bumped into each other at the gym, what would you tell me you do in the world of wellness? In the world of wellness, well, I am a registered yoga teacher. So that would probably be the answer to that question. OK. But I also work with some really amazing startup companies in the neurotech space, including the one that we're going to talk about today, which is I'm a scientific advisor for Neuronic. Neuronic.

Neuronic is a helmet that I've been talking about with my friends. I've been wearing it in the morning for my morning. We'll call it the battery charge up or my flow state to start writing and working. And I've been using it for, before bed and having really good results, really good results. And this last week, we just put out a podcast on the idea of health fluence. Have you heard of health fluence? I've not heard that term. Tell me more, Freddie. You want to know why? Because I made it up last week.

Clearly I haven't listened to that podcast yet. Well, it's only out today. But I just started it. I said it on a podcast with my friend Renee. And I was like, you know, it's really interesting in this space. It's like, I'm not working as a clinical practitioner. I'm working as someone who's very curious. I talk about a lot of tech. But I have influence on people in the health space because I have a personal experience. I went through cancer. And there's a responsibility with that. And right now, my most

triggered place is like I open my phone and every single day there's a new thing, there's a new gadget, there's a new face cream, there's a new peptide and it's like it was hard to navigate the hell space 20 years ago. Now, like good on you. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. And it's funny because when I, when you come up in conversations, which happens a lot because you know, a lot of people here in town and we have a lot of cross crossover between our communities.

Freddie Kimmel (02:26.51)
When people ask like what it is that you do, that's kind of what I say. I'm like, this is the guy who note, like, if you are curious about the biohacking world, if you're the at all want to know where to start, like Freddie can be your guide. I mean, I come to you if I'm like, if there's like four different tools in the market, I'm, you're the first call. Yeah. It's, tough. I, and I put out this. Well, I, I, health fluence I'd say is like a, a container you can play in, but then I had these like principles.

or these guidelines that I said are very helpful to navigate the space. And one of them, one of them was very interesting because people always ask me, what was the device that changed your life? Where did things turn for you? Where did you go from being, you know, a person struggling with rheumatoid arthritis and cancer to not? Sure. Yeah. So what was it? Well, I had, I had an experience with AmpCoil.

which is a PMF device, I talked about that in the show, and it was very clear. It was a very clear shift. However, my turnaround can't be turned into a protocol for somebody else. 100%. Yeah. There's 47 years that, or at that time it was like 41 years that precluded that. And all the stuff that I had done that was foundational led me to that moment in which I had a tipping point. Sure. Yeah.

and the danger is to create this, this thing does this. And it is why I wanted to have you on to talk about the helmet. you and the other kind of thing I talked about is like, is there education? Is there science to support? Is it reproducible? And that's your background, to take data and data sets and the whole data set and different body types. Well, it's interesting to say that though, because the longer that I'm in

the space. Obviously, as you said, my background being PhD, hard neuroscience, bench science, animal models, human clinical trials is all like, okay, let's look at the data and look for that hard evidence. But then you start working in this space, whether it's as I'm just gonna say, call you this, health fluencer, or whether you're working with these companies on these devices and you realize that

Freddie Kimmel (04:45.458)
individualism does make such a difference in that, yes, we can look at some general trends and we can examine this and say, we think these things will be helpful, but you do have to look at the overall makeup of that person, what kind of lifestyle they're leading, what their everyday habits are. And then sometimes that's actually the easiest way to find out which device will be the most helpful for them, right? Is there's not necessarily one device that's going to be helpful for every single person across the board, but if you know what the habits are and what they need,

then then you can start to narrow it down. and one thing is we talk about the neuronic helmet that I like so much about it is it's very customizable, depending on, know, the dosage, the intensity, all these things, depending on what your need for your light dosages. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'll, and I'll just mention this only because it's very meta is that when I was talking about the, the, the, the idea of, of the responsibility and creating trust long-term with the, with the community is that like, I do have an affiliate link.

for neuronic. Nobody's ever used it. However, if you were to watch this or listen to this and decide you wanted to go get a neuronic and use Beautifully Broken, I get an affiliate payout. that, I think it's important for us to speak those things into an awareness like that model within the wellness world is not different than the pharmaceutical world and that there is bias, there's incentive. And I think if we can name it, we at least are transparent about it.

Yeah, I think there's also an element that these are all businesses and it's totally fair for a business. How a business gains visibility is through people who know what they're talking about. And in fact, that's, you know, as someone who works with the team at Neuronic, we want the people that we give affiliate links to be the people who actually know what they're talking about, the experts in that area. And so if somebody does come to us through you, that just means they did their due diligence. They know how to get good information.

Yeah, it's funny that I had done a video, an unboxing video of the helmet. Wait, can we talk about the picture too? Yeah, tell me about the picture. about the About your picture. When we first saw, we sent Freddie a helmet and there's this great photo of you shirtless with the helmet on and you've got your cup of coffee and you're so happy.

Freddie Kimmel (07:08.238)
And our marketing team was just like, couldn't get over it. They were just like, oh, oh, this is, he's just not wearing a shirt. And it was like, but to me, like, again, I see you here. come over to your house on Sundays with Sonic, cold plunge. This is Austin and pretty much everybody's shirtless all the time. but it made quite a kerfuffle because a large majority of the neurotic team is international and you know, they just, they're a little, first of all, it's not as hot if you're in Europe, but yeah.

Just little stuff here. and then there was a period of time where on the socials page like it was a picture of you, your shirtless coffee photo and then the next post was me in this shirt actually at one of the events and I'm like holding two neurotic helmets in my hand. They were like, it's Ramona and Freddie all over our socials page. But either way, your shirtless photo was, it was a whole thing. I love it. Well in full transparency, that was a candid photo. That was a sauna cold plunge day and we were just in

the kitchen and we were making coffee and muffins for everybody like we do and I have my helmet on. Which is one thing that we'll talk about today, which is so great about the helmet is that you could be making coffee and muffins and doing your light therapy at the same time. Yeah, you can. definitely can. You know, I was going to say that I had made that video. I had done an unboxing and right away I had day one session one.

When I'd use the helmet, I was like, do people ever feel a little tingly? I'm very sensitive to energy. We talked about amp coil and frequency therapy. I am very attuned. If I put a device on that has current or light, I feel, I don't know if that's viable. If it's sensory, I feel tingly. And I said my brain feels like I felt it. And in that video that I put on YouTube, it's so funny. I put it on YouTube, YouTube channel got taken down. was banned for life. Now it's back.

Everybody knows that on the channel. So I put it on the news, but, the comments, comments were horrible. mean, people were like, this is complete bullshit. You can't use an led to reach the brain. There's no science, but I mean, it was just brutal comments. and I felt bad. was like, man, I wish, I wish there was some gap. You know, I'd written a couple of people and be like, actually here's the website. Here's our papers. Here's the depth of research on the.

Freddie Kimmel (09:31.938)
background of this unique spectrum they're using. There's a lot there. I really do have a personal experience. They didn't pay me to make the video and people were just like, no, they paid you. Well, to be fair, there's always a bias, right? Yeah. It is because I think this is actually one of the things, probably one of biggest challenges with this kind of device because it's near infrared. So you can't see the light with your naked eye. That we had a few different, it wasn't just your video. In fact, your video didn't even come up when we were talking about.

Other comments we were getting were like, I don't believe this is actually doing anything. You can't even see the light and so we have a researcher in Australia Lisa Lasco who she made a video where she used because you have to use a wildlife camera to capture the light like you have to use a filter for a wildlife camera to get the 1070 nanometer light cool and so she made this video and it's super cool. I'll share it with you after the the podcast where first they just take it where it's on with

not on her head. And it's just like this giant glowing orb. And then she puts it on her head. it's like, mean, it's massive. There's no question that there is light going through, right? So we did, kind of with that same idea, that we know that the reason that people are asking questions is because they don't know. They can't see it. It's near infrared. So we're going to share with them the evidence. We're going to show them the wavelengths. We're going to talk about how this penetrates the skull and why this penetrates the skull differently from other light. Yeah.

And I do want to get into it. I want to get into the science and the wavelengths. And my experience is when I wear the helmet, I am way more focused. I trend towards an ADHD. Okay. Very, you know, if I did like a, like a brain map, everybody always says to me like, wow, you must have a really challenging time focusing. They're like, you're built like a Ferrari. Don't have the frame for it.

And then at nighttime, man does it wind me down beautifully. There's a setting called peace and I just pull up the app, put peace on and I'll run it a couple times. I'm ready for bed after two. And that has always been a thing for me was the wind down window. Especially if I've been doing

Freddie Kimmel (11:48.462)
very exciting things with my life like this or at an event or I've even traveled with it. I throw it in my suitcase these days. Yeah. mean, the piece is my also personal favorite protocol and we can talk about our experience with that, but I'm curious. I'd like to ask you two questions. What, which protocol do you use during the daytime? I use one glow or focus. Yeah. I've been experimenting with focus more. think glow was where I started. And with the glow protocol, it's just a hundred percent intensity.

for 10 minutes, just light. Whereas the focus protocol, you're using it at a certain pulse duration. you're trying to activate specific brain waves. So you're looking at, of course, now I believe it's 40 hertz. And you're pulsing at 40 hertz to try to stimulate more gamma activity. with GLOW, you're thinking we just want to get cellular health open up, get more oxygenation, vascularize the cells. With FOCUS, it's like, no, let's get the right brain waves going.

And then you go to peace and you that's at 10 Hertz, which is more, um, and this is all backed by the literature. We didn't just make up what these pulse widths are. Um, with the 10 Hertz pulse, you're getting more of the, that, you know, alpha and Delta activation getting ready for bed. Amazing. If we were to just go back and, and, and just talk about. Neuronic as a, as a technology and a tool, how would you again, describe this to a person, a lay person in the grocery store? like, I work for.

or with, I work with as a scientific advisor for Neuronic, what does this do? So the Neuronic, if I were to talk to it in the simplest terms possible, I would say it's a light therapy helmet. Boom. There it is. Most people, I would guess, at this point, have heard of at least red light, if not near infrared. I just want you to just model everything. Just hold it. Maybe the shirt needs to come off. I do have a great picture of my dog wearing it the other night.

he, so, so it's, a light therapy helmet. That's it. And as I said, again, when speaking at the lay persons, I think most people have heard of some kind of light therapy. Most will say red light. And that's usually the response is like, like a red light therapy. And then you get to kind of get into the nuance of the different wavelengths of light, but that would be the simplest possible way. It's a red light or excuse me, it is a light therapy helmet for brain health. Now, if, if we're at the.

Freddie Kimmel (14:15.426)
Longevity conference if we're if we're at a 4m Advancements in medicine and you're talking to a clinical mind or a doctor What are you gonna say the neurotic helmet is and what are the value propositions? Yeah, I would say it's a near infrared photobiomodulation helmet and our goal is to increase cellular activity or excuse me cellular Well, no, actually yeah cellular activity support mitochondrial activity and support increased vascularization to the brain

to allow for better brain activity, whether it's the wavelengths, whether it's your cell health, whether it's decreasing inflammation in the microglia. I wonder only just with my history of like biotoxin illness and mold and Lyme, if that's why I've had such an acute noticeable response to it. Certainly possible. I will say this, your sensitivity to the light itself

It's very, yeah. That's also, we talked about individualist experience. I don't have that same tingly sensation that you do, but I do see the outcome. So I know it's working. but I have certain, but I, my experience over the course of things is there are plenty of people like you who have that sensitivity. A lot of times I do think it's people who've maybe experienced something like you have with a really specific, either a chronic illness or an acute infection of some kind who

kind of by necessity, you've had to become more sensitive to those experiences. So certainly, I would agree that that's not uncommon. You also just might be really sensitive to this kind of energy, right? I mean, look, if you go down into your biohacking space, you've got your PEMF, you've got your electrical stimulation, you've got your cold plunge, you've got your sauna, you've got your neuronic. These are all different kinds of energy in different capacities. And you just might really respond great to this one.

Yeah, yeah, it's it's just very different because I have a if you've been in the center if you watch my Instagram there will also be pictures of me totally naked not no bottoms no tops in the morning in front of the red light like it in front of the red light wall. yes. You know, and I favorite my fave and and I dancing dancing in the red light. Now I don't it's put that to Roxanne. I don't I don't I never know. I am

Freddie Kimmel (16:39.56)
I a little disappointed, but maybe not. Instagram has totally taken away 90 % of my joy in the last week. I can't use any pop songs on a business account anymore. I used to, I'd be like, this is gonna be Beastly Boys or this is nothing, only generic music. And it's such a bummer. That is a bummer. I have done Roxanne before with a red light video in my stories. It's right there.

That's right there. It's right there. But I say that to say I've, I've used red light therapy and I credit it to pretty decent skin at 48 cents. you feel the tingles in the red light therapy the way you do with the helmet? I don't, but I do feel my energy building after like 15 minutes, but I don't, I don't, it's not the, it's not the same. Yeah. Well they're getting to different, right? Different cell types, different tissue layers.

But that's very interesting, because that would be the biggest question for me instead of like identifying what the difference is. Like you're getting tingles with this. You're feeling like an energetic production with that. Yeah. But, you know, again, from a quantum physics standpoint, we can get into the physics a little bit. The light, it's not, it's not, we're only going to go to the skin. It's a porous body, right? It's not, there's no solid.

in the world that we live in. It's all. No, I our skin isn't solid, right? We think it is, but if you actually look at it, it's a bunch of tissue layers that are very porous and mostly water. Yeah. So yeah, of course it can get through. And what we know about wavelengths of light is similarly is there's, you know, different wavelengths are going to penetrate differently. Different wavelengths will also be absorbed by water differently. And so that's one of those things. So when we talk about this helmet so that your listeners understand a little bit better, right?

Most of the light therapy wavelengths land somewhere between 600, sometimes down to five, up to 800, 900 nanometers. And that's your red light spectrum. That's visible red light. We've seen it at the spas on your red light panel, et cetera. What we are using is a 1064, 1070 nanometer light, which is not visible to the eye. And because it has that longer wavelength, it actually does penetrate.

Freddie Kimmel (19:04.46)
differently, it gets to different layers of tissue. With that said, you also get different scatter patterns. Again, when you change how long the wavelength is, you're going to be absorbed differently. This is absorbed more by water. there's elements of all of that factoring into the physics of why we choose the wavelengths that we do and why we use them in the ways that we do. And so this is a helmet. It's on the brain. Can the light from this helmet cross my skull?

and get into my, can it target the microglia, the brain cells? It can. How do we know that? Science. Let's talk about it. Yeah, this is a, I said, you know, this is where that video that we produced was so important to us because it was showing it like, so that you could actually see how to even go. No, so what we know is that, and we've done a couple of studies where we like, we've got a guy on our team who he's in his PhD right now. And so a lot of our like,

coolest experiments come out, because he's in the lab every day, right? But you're literally taking like a skull, just like a human skull, and taking the light and making sure that we can actually see that that lave leg coming through again, using those special filters. So we know that it can. In terms of how it can impact the tissue underneath, that's also something not in human studies yet. It's always trickier to get into like what exact cell types you're getting when you're looking at a clinical trial.

Most of this is done in preclinical and animal studies where they can actually pull the tissue and kind of take a look at it. But you do see the impact of a light wavelength like this actually getting to microglia to impacting the actual inflammatory processes as well as seeing that, as I like to call it, like it's charging up the cells much like you feel with your red light panel, but that's on your skin. We're just charging it up a little deeper into the body. Yeah. And what's the intent of the device? Like what did they...

want to solve in the marketplace. So like there's a lot of devices, there's a lot of light therapies. What's the goal of Neuronic? I can share. Our long-term goal, which is actually pretty ambitious, is to be the first product on the light therapy market that's FDA cleared for neurodegeneration. And I say that as being it's a goal. We have a long way to go. We're working on breakthrough device designation. We've got a lot of clinical trials that have to be done to show that.

Freddie Kimmel (21:28.706)
That was the big goal is saying like, know that light has this impact on the brain. We know this light is doing this. And there are plenty of really wonderful products out there that use light therapy for other parts of the body. As I said, your red light panel, fantastic, beautiful for your skin, right? Makes you feel great. But we wanted to make sure that we have something that really focuses and helps the brain itself. Yeah. Yeah. mean, central command center makes a lot of sense for me just to honor it. You know, I just watched the

Eric Dane documentary the other day. it was just really, I've not talked about this, but I was, I was so moved. Not surprised. By his humility and his transparency. And the very interesting thing about ALS is how it, for most people, cognition is like fully present. It's the terrifying thing about ALS. Yeah. It's, Yeah. The body shuts down.

Yeah, and to have that, to literally be a conscious observer and know that you cannot interact with the world with your body anymore is... Yeah. I went down the rabbit hole on it. And I bring this up because it's different in that even since the discovery or let's say they discover the disease, the naming of ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease, that...

the numbers per year in the United States have always pretty much, or in the world, I think it's about 5,000, 6,000 people diagnosed every year. That hasn't really shifted. And there's no definitive mark, is there genetic or could it be genetic cofactors? But it's interesting in which the neurons are targeted within the brain and central spinal column.

And then I was like, well, it must be autoimmune. And they're like, no, it's not autoimmune. So I was kind of, I've been really reading and listening to people all week long about that. And then in contrast, you do have this subset of Parkinson's patient. Another show I'm watching is Shrinking Right Now. If you're not watching Shrinking, get on it if you just want to make your life a little bit better. The conversations around Parkinson's, now that since 1990 has more than doubled in our population.

Freddie Kimmel (23:45.452)
I'd say that's one. And again, there's not a blood test for Parkinson's. This is check marks in a box in which you have these different symptomologies. Right. Right. But that is skyrocketing right now. And I do think it's on everybody's mind. It's like, how do I take care of my most important organ is the brain. Yeah, I agree. And I think that's it's something that's so

exciting, also a little bit scary because you have, you said, you mentioned these diseases that are increasing in numbers and just like things that like ALS, which we now understand a little bit more. And they're scary, right? It's terrifying to think that that may be something that could be in your life someday. But on the flip side, we know more about the brain now and we're starting to understand it. And I think what's really interesting, whether there's a genetic component or not, there's almost always similar symptoms, some crossover in

what's happening at the cellular level between a lot of these neurodegenerative conditions. ALS is very unique and very unusual. In your deep digging, have you read When the Body Says No? No. Different from When the Body Keeps the Score? No, I haven't. Check it out. It's a little bit more case study based. It's a very interesting book, there's an entire, the first chapter is on ALS.

And on this very interesting finding that most, if you talk to physicians about ALS, what they usually describe is all their ALS patients being the nicest people, right? It's always the nice people who get ALS. And there's this theory around the emotional side of that of saying, if you are keeping your emotions in, if you're not letting out the anger, what is that doing at the cellular level? How is that impacting your health long-term if you aren't able to kind of expel the negative and you're hiding it because you're trying to stay

calm, nice, et cetera. And it's kind of ironic, who's the one person who's had ALS that lived arguably longer than anyone else? Yeah. Hawking, right? Stephen Hawking wasn't a nice guy. Really? Nobody ever said he was a nice guy. But so there's this theory that's like, oh, maybe the reason he survived as long as he did was he was the one. But then.

Freddie Kimmel (26:00.526)
He also was very cognitively focused. He didn't really need the physical interaction with the world that the average person requires. So it's very interesting to think about the emotional aspect of a disease like ALS. It's so, so different in that regard from some of these other ones like Parkinson's, as I said, if you look at Parkinson's or dementia or MS as well, there's always going to be some crossovers in the symptoms and crossovers in the cells, but

ALS kind of stands on its own. Yeah. Now I can't, I do want also sometime the podcast studio will evolve. I need another computer here because I need to be able to pull the fact checker right now because I do know within the last 18 months there was a study in which it was a very high correlation of people with MS had Borrelia burgdorffy.

in the terrain. had had, they were positive for Lyme. That's really interesting. A number of researchers had looked at that correlation. Obviously it's not the one causative element, but I did notice in a lot of these studies that are looking at environmental medicine, heavy metal was very big. seemed lead was very big in ALS. The other thing that's interesting is it's predominantly men until we get to menopause.

and then it becomes a one-to-one. that is very interesting. And so you have this thing like progesterone dropping through the floor, which is neuroprotective, also synergistic with melatonin. Right. That I was like, well, of course, in a transitional clock of aging, all of sudden, you're just not, your shield is robust at that time of life. that's what, you know, that makes me think, because one of the, when I did my PhD work, was on, largely on traumatic brain injury and spinal cord injury.

And as I mentioned earlier, a lot of the research that is done, especially early to understand what's happening at the cellular level, it's always preclinical models. It's always animal models. And NIH at the time was kind of pushing like, make sure you do male and female. Like you've got to make sure that you see the differences, sex differences. And that was actually the thing that kept coming up in like a traumatic brain injury and spinal cord injury in terms of the inflammatory response post injury. It was so drastically different because of

Freddie Kimmel (28:22.402)
the progesterone and estrogen, that you would see a much greater number of TBIs having a really negative long-term outcome in males than you would in females. Females, would recover, mean, again, animal models, so keep that in mind, but recovery of function, whether it was actual movement or whether it was the cognitive tasks that we gave our rats, if you looked at the chart over time, the females would just come back so much quicker.

than the males. But we were also always looking at three month old mice, so basically young mice. And I actually did, my studies was all on how age changes the inflammatory response. And I didn't do, I stuck with males to kind of keep it consistent across one sex, but it was in the back of my mind that I'm like, well, I wonder if we were to look at aged female mice, would that correlation between the sex and their recovery

get closer together because you have that drop in progesterone. Yeah, it would make sense to me. absolutely. But again, know, Freddie's working theory. Pete's down, so your dog is downstairs. What do you think he's our bird? He probably, yeah. Or maybe he saw your neighbor's kitty. oh, oh. There he is again. Yeah. Hopefully it's okay. Is he just?

I always say it's a good day. Oh, he saw that through the window. saw a little of, he saw Mr. Hicks through the window. He just got the little bit of like barrier excitement. People are often on the podcast remote and they have their dog barks and they'll pause, they'll apologize, prophetic. I'm like, yeah, it's good. Life's happening. Yeah. We're having conversations. What, so with this idea of, you know, back to neuronic, what is the research really shown that's clear?

You know, I used this word last week. I said repeatable. Yeah. So this is the challenge, perhaps, in the light therapy space is there's so many, like the reality is research in light therapy has been going on for decades. But it's almost never the same protocol, the same wavelength of light, right? Like every, that's the challenge. So you kind of have to look at all of the data as a whole and say, like, what are our trends?

Freddie Kimmel (30:45.23)
The 880 wavelength, is more the red light wavelength, has been probably the most studied in the brain space. The 1070 that we use is much less well studied, but it's, in my mind, very exciting. And that's kind of one great thing about being in this space. As a company, Neuronic is we've got, god, I think we've got like 12 to 15 studies ongoing that are all with different universities, all with different groups, as you know from your research.

clinical work takes time. So a lot in process. We've published three studies so far, one being on attention and memory. So we're actually seeing improvements in attention over time with use of the device. You're seeing in the sleep aspects, a decrease in insomnia indexes. for those, you talked a little bit about the wind down time. It's not just the wind down time, but it's actually staying asleep, is your quality of sleep consistent through the night.

Um, and then also, uh, a couple in sort of the depression area, have a three, three person case studies. Um, so you can't like get too crazy with the interpretation, but across the board, seeing a decrease in depression scores as well as, um, increase in sleep, which almost always sleep is always a big factor to it. Right. Um, I was recently, I had the pleasure of being a guest on Molly Eastman's podcast. Sleep is a skill. And I mean, we just dug in and that's.

Probably the most, in my mind, when you look at all brain research, almost always if something's wrong, sleep is impacted. So it becomes probably the first outcome measure that really people want to know is like, if you can see improvement in sleep, well then you're going to recover better. You're going to see a change to how you feel every day. And all those other outcomes, whether it's attention, focus, memory, you're probably going to see an improvement because you're actually resting. Yeah. Yeah, there's no performance drug like sleep.

there is no longevity drug like exercise. I those two are just so, you know, and so I always tell people it's like, yes, this is tool. It's something that depending on where you're at in your road, in your budget, in your journey, you you have to self-assess, is it right for you? But I would always stack it with the foundationals. 100%. I would always say, look, yes, sleep, nervous system, focus, but stack that with the sleep hygiene protocol.

Freddie Kimmel (33:11.104)
don't say, now I don't need to do the foundational elements because I got the neuronic element. Yeah. And I think this is, when it comes to anything light, I mean, you talk about standing in front of your red light panel. This doesn't replace your red light panel. It a different purpose. That's right. Also, neither of these things replace going outside and getting natural sunlight. Right? They all have their space. But I think what's great about these products, these tools, as for someone who maybe they are, you know,

inside for a lot of their day because that's their job and that's not going to change. If you can, you know, kind of support the body with additional amounts of light, if you can't get outside all the time, maybe you're a shift worker, maybe you work a night shift. I use the example, you were talking about traveling with it, but if you're at a conference all day, you're not outside, you're under fluorescent light, there's no windows, you don't see anything. And that's where having a tool to sort of supplement when you can't get

nature's beautiful orb. Exactly. Yeah. Or you don't have skylights in your podcast. you don't. know there's so much light in this room. We've got the skylight. We've got the natural. We got these lights. That's very bright. Yeah, I know. I know. I know the, you know, that, consumer roadmap, right? And again, I'll go back to like what, because this is really where I want to be an advocate for people. It's like, how do you just like, what are the questions to ask? Like,

Why would someone look at neuronic? Why would they bring it into their long-term care plan? I feel like, yes, most people were dealing with a different, I say this word and I always define it because if you haven't listened to the show, it's called the exposome. It's the net total burden of all the environmental things that are stacked against us like mercury, like lead, like glyphosate, to name a few, aluminum. If you live in Texas, it's really bad in the air. And you know,

it's those things aren't changing. So we're in a little bit of a different world. But I would ask you like, who would you divide this for? I always think of like my, if I had a magic wand, I'd be like, just give it to your parents. definitely parents. But frankly, it really is a device that's great for everybody, but for different reasons. Parents are kind of the obvious because usually we're talking elder, I shouldn't say your parents are elderly, but.

Freddie Kimmel (35:34.634)
Well, they're 75. Yeah, we're creeping up on those ages. The aging population in general has a harder time sleeping. They have a harder time processing infection. They have a harder time processing inflammation. That was a lot of what my research was in grad school was understanding why. Our body doesn't have the antioxidant capacity. We need a little extra help. And it's part of the natural life cycle that as you get older, you have that change in your system.

but there's ways that we can supplement it. And so for someone who is going into their twilight years, this helmet can help with, whether they're feeling a little bit foggy or maybe they're having some, you know, a harder time with waking up in the morning or maybe falling asleep. These are ways that we can encourage it again, especially with like what brainwaves are actually, you know, stimulating as well as with

the oxygenation, the vascularization to the brain. Something we didn't get to when we talked about the neurodegenerative conditions, but a lot of these conditions have elements of problems related to diabetes and sugar or glucose consumption, glucose processing. And all of that comes back to like, how is the blood kind of circulating? How is everything working?

And just that continued support of circulation of your nutrients through your body can be such a huge help. So that's a big one. I know both of my parents have helmets for different reasons. My mom, she just likes the way, she's like you, she's very, very, very sensitive to light energy. And so same thing, I put it on her and she was like, she has some nerve injuries where she gets really bad leg cramps.

And she swears that this took away her leg cramps, which I was like, I don't have an explanation for that, but great. What we do know, and this is kind of cool from the research, is if you looked at whole body red light panels versus a helmet like this, we did actually do a comparison study that said, are you seeing the same kinds of effects? And we are seeing a systemic effect from this. So when my mom said that to me, I was like, wow, that's a very interesting anecdote, but it's

Freddie Kimmel (37:51.104)
It's not totally out of left field. People do see a systemic benefit from using this. And that portability aspect, simplicity of this helmet, I think is actually one of the things that makes it so great. Your red light panel is awesome, but when you travel, you can't take that with you. Yeah. You can't do So you can get your dose of light energy in a portable capacity that you can throw in your backpack. Yeah. And again, different color, different spectrum, different dose.

I want to also say there's different versions of Neuronic. Like I have, which version do I have? Neuronic 1070. You have the Neuronic Lite. The Neuronic Lite. It actually says Lite on the side of the helmet. there's two products. And what's the other version? The Neuronic, the Neuradient is the first product that Neuronic came out with. And that one is, so you can think about one is more like for a clinician and one more for an end user.

So the light is very much aimed at an end user. It's all operated on the app. It's got the protocols. You can make custom protocols if you kind of like learn what works for you. And we've got consultants on the team who can actually help you figure out what might work best for you based on what you've had, whether you've had Lyme disease, whether you've had whatever your particular makeup is. The Neuradient has the kind of big difference is it has quadrant specificity. So you would actually just light up certain quadrants of the brain.

And it's all controlled by like a controller rather than an app. So for clinicians, sometimes they prefer that option. What would be the benefit of doing like the left prefrontal cortex first? right. So it depends on what the patient is experiencing. But let's say that you were having more processing issues or you were having some cognitive recall issues, then maybe you would focus more on frontal cortex.

That in my mind, having the ability to focus on different quadrants of the brain is really great for research questions. Again, there's no downside as an end user to just full head stimulation. Right. No, that makes sense. That makes sense. And we actually, I won't say too much about it, but we're in the works on a third, a new version, which is going to have more than one wavelength. Oh, cool. So keep your eyes up.

Freddie Kimmel (40:11.988)
Yeah, that's the big question people always ask, will it regrow your hair? I will know it will not regrow. It's not that. Yeah. Well, not going to regrow my hair. No, and it's not that wavelength, right? There's definitely the wavelengths that have shown that capacity, but it's not this one. Do you know what those are off the top of your head?

the hair follicles. Isn't that in the 600 range? I want to say 650 to 690. think in the aesthetic world, the 650 to 690 range is the one that has shown the most use for that. And then as you write, the 880 is really useful for more skin, tissue, then 880 gets a little bit deeper. 880 will tend to be kind of, it does penetrate to the skull and it will get to a little more of the cortical areas.

where with the 1064, we're looking at a little deeper structures going more towards mid-brain. Yeah, the other thing I just want to say, because it's a podcast and you may watch this video, but you may watch a clip on Instagram, but the helmet, you don't need to be plugged into a wall. It's got a USB cable back here. There's a little battery pack. Hit it in your pants. You can kind of walk around. That's the other thing that I really appreciate.

just being able to be mobile and work around the house and to change stations. That's been really, really nice. Oh yeah, so my story with, as we were talking about the protocols that we like the most, I do the peace protocol every night before bed while I'm brushing my teeth. Like I said, just candidly, I wear like little panties to sleep. And so I just slip the battery pack into my panties as I'm brushing my teeth. And it's great. And then by the time like I'm finished brushing my teeth, like putting on my night lotion,

It's done. I put it off on the bedside and climb into bed. And then that's where I've noticed the biggest effect for myself is that when I started using this, I would fall asleep so fast. So dang fast. I definitely, I've told the story every time about this, but it just hits me is that I was reading the same book as a friend of mine and he would be like, man, I'm on this chapter. And I'm like, I have read three pages because every time I get into bed,

Freddie Kimmel (42:22.792)
It's out in three minutes. Like I can't, I can't make it past like two paragraphs. I love it. Yeah. I love it. who should not use the helmet or who is it not good for? well, really it's going to be your, your sort of more typical contraindications for any sort of, energetic therapy. So if somebody has cancer, active cancer, probably not the best thing. at least it's, it's a precaution that you would want to take is not necessarily use it. we had someone the other day who had a,

or active cancer on an earlobe. And we're like, maybe not. Maybe you just avoid that. Just because mostly that's, we don't know. It could stimulate growth and we don't want that to happen, obviously. Outside of that, really, it's an individual thing. Some people don't like the energetic feeling that they get from it. But there's, speaking, very few people that couldn't use it. Yeah. And what's, this helmet is around $1,700? Mm-hmm. Right around there? Yeah.

I think it's 18 and change. 18 and change. Awesome. Yeah, I mean, it's like very similar to, I guess one of the big panels I have downstairs called a diesel. It's 15 inches wide. It's like 36 inches high. It's big. It's like a body panel. Very similar price point, but different wavelengths, different portability. It's like, what are you looking for? How do you feel? What do you want? Well, what are you willing to do about it? As we say, and as we say in the blueprint so many times. Yeah, absolutely.

No, and that's that's the the key is if you know what your needs are fit like something that's more portable more focused on brain health like these Everybody's needs are different. Yes, maybe the item or maybe it's it's your red light panel or maybe both and you do it Thank you. like you yeah, mean I have you worn this while standing in front of the red light panel. yeah Most times yeah, yeah most times this is yeah this morning I I love that when Molly when I was on her podcast she was saying she'll like put this on she goes outside to do her makeup and

And so she's standing in the sun with her helmet on doing it. And I was like, yeah, that's great. Stacking right there. Yeah. Again, I'd say if you had unlimited funds and you're somebody that's looking to upgrade your brain health, I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't want to do it. But if you're really price conscious, and I am very frugal. I really, really truly am. I'm like, I always think about the price. And then I look at the other devices and I see,

Freddie Kimmel (44:48.364)
Well, if there's something cheaper, what am I losing from this? The thing that's really in a great lens or light of integrity about you guys is that there's a money back guarantee. Yeah, so it's 90 days, which is great. And it's 100 % money back guarantee. It's not like, oh, restocking fee, blah, blah, blah. If you don't like it, you got 90 days. That's plenty of time to figure it out. Yeah, I mean, that's just for all you haters out there.

I mean, I'm just saying it's like a lot of times people, they want to find a reason not to do it because they'd rather just be complaining. And I'm not saying you need to ride a red light helmet, but that's pretty, it's a pretty bold statement from a company to say, hey, three months, you get all your money back. If you're not happy, people don't do that in the tech industry. No, they don't. Yeah. I frankly, when I first started working with them, I was like 90 days.

100 %? Whoa, whoa, okay. But now I get, I I use mine twice a day, every day, like I love it. And it's funny if I do leave it behind when I travel, sometimes I'm that sucks. to my mind. Or like when my mom, when she was visiting me, she wanted one and she was like, can I just take yours and you get a new one from the company? And I was like, yeah, I guess. But then it took like four days and I was like really sad for those four days. So I'm a fan, like 100 % use it.

every single day. I mean, I'm most days, you last night I, I, I was, we had a long day. I was sick for a few days. It was finally kind of like the breakout day where you start to turn around. was like, man, I'm not tired at all. And I grabbed the helmet, ran it two times. I was totally ready for bed. was, it was pretty, yeah, it's just very, it's just very, very clutch. I've been experimenting with this. our, one of the founders, he said that he, he, if he has like a headache that he'll throw it on and it

It completely dissolves his headache. cool. And I've been experimenting with it. I mean, I don't get headaches very often, but one, the occasional one does. I don't know if I'd say it completely dissolves it, but I definitely feel better afterwards. least a little bit clearer, a little more, whew, all right. I've never in my life ever been a headache person. Like you've never had one? I just, not a headache person. Your head just never hurts. Don't get them. Yeah. However, in the last year- That is- It's weird. Never?

Freddie Kimmel (47:16.972)
I mean, I puke or vomit or like have a fever, but I wouldn't feel like... What about when you get dehydrated? Yeah, a little bit. Okay. But... This is interesting. But a year ago, I started to get headaches and very like head pressure, headaches, yada, yada, yada. Well, now I'm to ask you to see if you get a headache, see if this helps. I'll try it. It's been amazing. And I would say 99 % resolved.

Obviously like I'm always winding in things. But I would say when I started to do a little more oxygen therapy, a little more conscious breath work, and I don't mean breath work like falling down to the floor and like seeing hallucinations. mean, 10 five by five breaths and doing that three times a day. And I think I would tell you in this world of entrepreneurship, which nobody tells you about when you're not on

a salary and every week it's like up to you to make money. a long, you start to hold that tension in your body. And I really think it was just a, whatever it was, I'm not going to say it was a device or the Bimini device or doing some sort of electro stim, but it was more the process of awareness and me consciously breathing every night before bed, every lunch break. And when I wake up in the morning, it's been great. Couple that with a little CFT, which is

craniosacral fascial therapy and it was just releasing the muscle tension at the base of the neck, occiput, kind of manipulating the plates in the head. went and did a workshop with them and it's just been, yeah, it's what a blessing. will say, mean, as I mentioned at the beginning of podcast, as a yoga teacher, mean, breath is a huge part of what we practice and from like the cellular level, it's not just one oxygenation of the tissue. think about it when it comes down to it's oxygen and water, like these two

These two pieces are like the most helpful, right? Dehydrated, make sure that you're hydrated. also like breath, the practice of breathing and what that does to your nervous system is so incredible. That's something so simple. We were, would tell a funny story about breath. I was teaching last week at a studio here in town and there was an incident outside that made like, was, was a lot. It was a jarring noise that like, you could feel like the whole room was like, whoo.

Freddie Kimmel (49:40.908)
Like the anxiety kind of went up in the room and I was like, all right guys, like we're going to come back to our breath. Like this is the yoga. Let's take a deep breath into the nose. Like hold it, release it, like come become conscious of your breath. And like within 30 seconds we were back to like, okay, we're feeling good. I always think about, I started yoga like pretty, maybe like 2000. I took my first class or something like that. And I pretty regularly, you know, I go into a couple, every day pretty much, you know,

I'm in a downward dog or whatever I'm doing. And I'll go take class. I always, I get this inner like giggle chuckle when I go to a class and there's like a guy in there for his first time. yeah. And he's like, this isn't yoga. This is a workout. yeah. And they are muscling through every pose. they're arms. Right. They're keeping their bodies so tense and tight. There's no breath.

But it's from the outside in, you're trying to recreate what you see, right? And people always says, Freddie, it's about the breath. I'm like, bullshit, this is hard. I got to hold the pose. I didn't get it. I didn't get it. It's interesting because when you do start to, and I think that's a very normal trajectory for women, not just for men. think it's just, as you said, maybe men show it a little bit more than women do. But when you first start doing any practice of movement, you

There's too many things to think about at one time. You're thinking about, OK, where is my foot supposed to be? Where is my knee supposed to be? Where are my hands supposed to be at? OK. And then eventually, you can be like, am I breathing? And that's something I show a lot in my classes. Once we've started moving and we start building out our flows, I usually take a pause where I'm like, are we still breathing? Yeah. Let's make sure we are. OK. Now keep that going. But my friend who you met a couple of weeks ago, just did

the half marathon here in Austin. And he's funny because he, he has started doing yoga over the last few months. He's been coming to my class and he's, he's liked it for the balance. He's been recovering from an injury, but what he did say, he was like, I think the breath is actually the thing that I've gotten the most out of out of yoga. He's like, he was looking at his heart rate post race. He was like, even at mile 12, like I was keeping it like,

Freddie Kimmel (52:01.982)
in like zone two, zone three, like I never really got that high. And he's like, I think because I've actually been really, really, really trying to focus on breath when I come to your class. And it's like paying off in other aspects of his life. And I was like, that is so cool. Like that's the one thing you got from yoga. That's, it's a pretty big thing. it's amazing. It's amazing. It really is. It's so clutch and it's something we don't learn how to do and we have no awareness about. it's, yeah, it's foundational. Yeah. Yeah. There's that. mean, breath. I know you've read James Nestor's book.

Yeah, it's... Well, he's in the blueprint. We quote him. Yeah, exactly. That's what I say. I know you've read that one. That's, yeah, it's life-changing when you start to read what breath can do for just like your mental health, your awareness, your presence, all of it. And we all know this. We just don't necessarily consciously put it together, right? We know that like when you're stressed out, if you start taking deep breaths, that it brings your nervous system down, right? It takes you back to a more relaxed state. But...

Sometimes we're just not conscious of it because we got 8,000 other things going on because we live busy lives Well, I don't think it's gonna get better, you know, I think I don't think I think that that's something we're slowly losing attachment to the rhythm of breath or the rhythm of nature and that that the more we try to take over the world and and you know, whatever unconscious capitalism, whatever you want to say is that we lose that

tether to this is a regulatory process which is already on board. Yeah, I mean, I think it's the that we lose the awareness, the acknowledgement that like we are also beings who grew up and evolved in this environment. And so of course we need to work with it. I'm curious for you because you are Mr. Biohacker. the blueprint, which I helped you or worked on with you this summer helping edit and things like that. What I loved about it was how much

You know, the tools were always not an afterthought, but it was always like, Hey, here's all the things that are around you and all the things in your natural environment that you can be doing to improve this. If you need that extra push, here's the tools that are available, but you also sell in this world. Like how do you balance that? How do you say like, what's the right mix for someone? Yeah. I mean, I think my truth is that the tools.

Freddie Kimmel (54:25.568)
we're always going to be able to change your state, but they're so temporary in their dose of, of hormetic benefit or a stressor or energy. The thing that's with me all day is me. And it's these processes like the idea of like fashion needs to glide to generate electricity. I need to breathe to regulate the nervous system and move lymph. need to take 12,000 steps a day. I, I'm the more I'm in the space.

the more I realize if I can honor the movement and the breath and the circadian rhythm and the sleep and the self-talk and the conversation I have with myself in the mirror in the morning, I can do less and less of the tools. And I'm only getting, mean, everything in my blood work, my labs, my pain levels, my joint pain, it's all just better and better and better. I'm the best I've ever been. I should be declining at the...

this phase of life, right? I'm almost 50. Right, but instead... Yeah, yeah, it's going the opposite direction. God. For the listeners, I was at Freddie's birthday party a few weeks back, and I don't think anything has stuck with me more than you saying that 50 was not middle-aged, that 40 was. I was like, oh God. was like, oh no, but it lit a fire under me too that I'm like, oh my gosh, if in reality most people aren't gonna live to 100, right? That's a very optimistic statement, even if you have a healthy life,

You make it to 90, that's incredible. It was like, oh, you're already on that second half of that journey. Make it the best half. Yeah. Last half, best half. It is a story. I think it's a story we tell ourselves about where you are. Absolutely. So in that same concept of this, something that I like about working in this space with products like this with

All of these products that we're talking about are really non-invasive tools, right? These aren't injections. These aren't pharmaceuticals. And I was actually speaking to somebody about how, in reality, most pharmaceuticals are usually supposed to be a support tool. They're not supposed to be used forever. That most of the time it's, let's get you into this, into a healthier state. Let's help you build those habits. Unfortunately, that's not how pharmaceutical companies want it to be, because of course, how would they sell if you

Freddie Kimmel (56:45.332)
stopped using their product. so, and sometimes it can become the band-aid, but that's what I like about these products is because they're all non-invasive, they aren't a pharmaceutical, you can use them a little bit more consciously of like, when do I need it, when do I not? Yeah. I mean, I didn't really answer your question. said, I really didn't. I said, yeah, foundations, but I use a lot of tools.

You do use a ton of souls. do. And I believe in them. And I really do because I'm sensitive to the energy and I'm sensitive to the response. And I do track, I track everything again for the haters. I track with a device called bio strap, which has now been rebranded to sensor. They're going to be coming out with a new, and it's one of the highest grade clinical systems of like sleep latency, sleep onset. This is the, you can use this in a legal FDA clinical trial for data collection.

Right. was always the model of the strap. So I look at the trends, I look at the dailies, I look at the weekly, I look at the patterns and the patterns depending on like how I'm using these tools. If it's not moving the needle, I don't keep using it. Sure. I don't keep using it. And I've taken, I've taken even in the last month, you know, I've, I've started getting HRVs at like 79, 80, like really improving the recovery side.

And now the last year I've really dialed in sleep, really dialed in sleep as a very problem sleeper from the onset of severe auto immunity. I just was a bad sleeper. Um, and I never thought I would reverse that. I never thought in the last seven months have just been phenomenal. Really since October, just killer killer 98, 99 sleep scores, sleep scores. And you just feel you just, you once you see that, how it shows up in your daily, uh, presence.

word recall, focus, I find for me that the value of an extra one to 2 % from a neuronic or a nano-bubbled oxygen, that increases my output, my capability, how much money I can make. I personally am a better performer.

Freddie Kimmel (58:55.467)
You see the difference. Yeah. It's worth it. Yeah, it's worth it. And I could probably show you from like an ROI, be like, my God, look at all the things I would able to do and invest in. And because I had the bandwidth for it. Right. So I see it. really do see it as an investment, but on the other end, it's not a sunk cost. Right. I'm more, I'm bet I'm a better version of me. So that ceiling is lifted because I use some of these tools.

You could argue that and say, you'd be fine, just fine without these. would argue that. I always say, I don't mean this as a hit to the class of Holly 1996, but I can look at my class of high school graduates and I can see where we have very different benchmarks. And again, I'm trying to be non-judgmental, but subjective, skin quality,

muscle tone, energy, instances of depression. There's, you know, there, this is a clear thing. I'm again, approaching 50. look at there's a, my goodness, there was a woman yesterday on alone season 11. She's four. She was same age as me. I was like, she looks like she is 75 years old. She's lived a hard, hard life. Alcohol, depression, addiction. You see how it affects the body. Now I don't think we should.

be trying to live forever. mean, do whatever you want. Whatever gets you up in the morning blows your skirt the years you have should be incredible. my goodness. That's all I want because I spent so many sick. So I personally am not willing to do that. So when something comes along with good science repeatability and I feel like it's a good investment, I get really curious about it. Sure. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. think we've only got one body. We only have one of these for our life. Yeah.

And it is worth the time. is worth the effort. is worth all of it because it's the only one. You got to take care of it, right? That's right. That's that simple. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I never say these things to shame anybody, but we went to Stephen Wilson Jr. the other day. was an up and coming rock country star. He's just so good. We went to the Moody Center and man, was like people are just slinging down beers and

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:21.269)
Nacho boats and and all the you know that all so many people have just like this 20 30 pounds of visceral belly fat packed around their organs and I'm sorry, it's not an aesthetic thing That's a performance thing for your liver for your gallbladder like, know It's a light making all of those organs work so much harder because they're choosing to put things into the body that it

It's just, it's difficult for it to process. Yeah. My, my bias is again, is a world that's struggling. We need you at your very best. That used to be a call at the end of the show. I said that for years and years and years, like do something every day to be taking a step forward towards a better version of you. You could do that with breath work. You can do that with being outside within 30 minutes of waking, but you can also do that with something like neuronic. if it resonates with you. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. That's it.

I think we should probably close it down. I know you have a thing. Yeah, yeah, unfortunately. We could talk forever. I know that. Well, we'll do another one. started out, we tried to do a two-camera split, and we couldn't make the mics work. Next time. Next time. But I'm glad I get to be in the space with you. Yeah, in the totally. We fill the space nicely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll do I have enough hair for both of us. I know you do. I know you do. Yeah, with all the things. Yeah, I imagine a much more lavish podcast studio one.

one day. I think but this it looks so good. yeah, does. I love it. I love it. You know, and I was just down the rabbit hole this morning on, you know, do I need like video and 4k cameras and like a background studio? the end of the day, it really comes down to the message and the content. 100%. That's people listen. Yeah, it really does. It really does. It really is. It's it's what's inside. Yeah. I come back to it. It's your best self. What's inside?

Yeah, what's inside? What's inside? I thank you for being here. Thank you so much. I'm like, I'm a fangirl. So to be invited to be on the podcast is like an extra special moment. Yeah, I'm super excited. We'll get this right out and you guys will be hearing it. You'll have already heard it by the time you heard me say this. So we'll just review. It's it's Neuronic. Is it Neuronic.com? No, it's Neuronic.online. .online. Yes. You can use code beautifully broken for some type of a discount. I don't know what it is.

Freddie Kimmel (01:03:42.925)
I don't either there is a link there is a link there may not be a discount but there is a link in the beautifully broken dot world in the store where you can just go directly to the helmet and that supports the podcast through affiliations which you mentioned at the top of show and then you can do your 90-day trial and see if you notice any discernible shifts would love to hear yeah yeah would love to hear

Is there anything else people should read or check out or go to find the research on this? If you go to it, well, two things. If we go to our website, we have a whole research page that doesn't, as I said, we're young company and research takes a long time. So the number of studies Neuronic has done, just a few. But we have a very deep page on all of the research on light therapy in general. So you can go, you can learn there.

we host discussion rounds once a month where we bring on different experts to speak about different aspects and different applications of light therapy. And they're usually not people from Neuronics. Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. this month is on, pediatric uses of light therapy. So that's going to be a really cool one. All of that you can find on the website though. Yeah. And I'll just give you guys like a real, like a hard truth that the fact that they have published research and there are 15 in processes as like people don't do that.

You know, a lot of times there's like a race to the market, like, we're gonna do a red light helmet or we're gonna do a red light panel. There's no research on the product, none, doesn't exist. Yeah, and I'll be honest, I mean, one of the things that's so cool about this company and one of the reasons that I wanted to get involved with them is their dedication to the research. Not just for, obviously they want their product to be a big part of that, but.

understanding that the research is contributing to the field in general. That's why we do the things like discussion rounds. It's increasing awareness, increasing understanding, and a large part of our profits go into supporting our research. It's not something where it's all just going into some fat cat's pockets. It's not. It's a startup. These are all... We put our money where our mouth is. Like, we really are... We're behind it. And you guys just won an award. We did. We won from MedTech World, non-invasive medtech device.

Freddie Kimmel (01:05:51.071)
of the year. I probably said that wrong, but yeah. It's so cool. And Brian Johnson uses it. people have feelings about Brian either way, but Brian Johnson is spending millions and millions of dollars a year to, to, really does want to live forever. And, and if you listen to the man, he would not use anything that he thought was junk. Yeah. It's like he's I kind of trust his, and it's not always stuff you can afford. Some things are hundreds of thousands of dollars, but that is not the case with Neuronic. Yeah, I can't name-drop the other celebrities, but we have a few. Cool. Yeah, and who cares what the celebrities do? We care what the people in Austin, Texas do. Yeah, that's right. All right, we're going to shut it down. We love you so much. for listening to the Beautifully Broken podcast, Making the World Go Round. We'll see you on the next one. Thank you, Ramona. Thanks for having me. Yeah.