Betrayal, Forgiveness, and the Full Circle with Carmen Hunter

I’ve been waiting to have Carmen on since this podcast started! She helped 10x my coaching business, and I can’t wait to share what she has to say with my audience. Carmen Hunter is a certified health coach, trusted health coach mentor, and founder of the health coaching institute that’s transforming the industry, the Institute for Functional Health Coaching™.

She teaches health coaches how to break through their comfort zones, build up their confidence, implement a low-risk, investigative health coaching approach that allows them to work with any client who comes to them, and maximize their income and impact. 

In this vulnerable conversation, Carmen and I do not focus on her amazing Institute or coaching business, but on her growth and discoveries during one of the most traumatic times in her life. If you’ve been betrayed - or been the betrayer - this episode will bring compassion, understanding, support, and love to your situation. We’re all human beings, and this conversation is necessary for every one of us to hear.

Episode Highlights

2:55 - Carmen's core beliefs on coaching

4:30 - Freddie's biggest takeaway from his education

7:14 - The mental and physical impacts of discovering your partner's affair

14:14 - The worst thing about betrayal

18:52 - A major source of healing from betrayals

19:41 - Managing stress and betrayal on your body

22:06 - Trauma isn't what happens to you, it's how your body reacts

24:17 - Dealing with the shrapnel in loss

29:00 - Carmen's takeaway that shocks her clients

33:06 - Impacting generations through healing yourself

36:00 - Addressing the misconceptions of breakups on the children

39:05 - Does marriage work today?

45:43 - Have the courage to talk to your partner

48:13 - Developing a life you love

49:54 - The importance of offering grace to yourself

53:07 - Finding compassion for the betrayed and betrayer

55:47 - Those betrayed are not victims

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (00:00.046)
There are no guarantees because of a piece of paper, but the guarantee comes when you are solid in yourself, you understand what attachment you are, know what your attachment style is, learn why boundaries are really powerful, keep yourself grounded in who you are, know that you're enough. And if someone comes in to compliment that and understand that and work through your wound with you and then you trigger their wound and they work through theirs, that's a partnership. No piece of paper is gonna do that for you.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (00:29.091)
Welcome to the Beautifully Broken Podcast brought to you by AmpCoil. I'm your host, Freddie Kimmel, and on the show, we discuss the common thread survivors share after walking through the fire, the practitioners making a difference, and the treatment modalities that deliver healing back into the hands of the people who need it most. Witness the inspiration we gain by navigating the human experience with grace, humility, and a healthy dose of mistakes. Because part of being human is being beautifully broken.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (01:03.139)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the beautifully broken podcast. I am here with an amazing guest. I can't believe I went a whole year without getting her on the podcast because when I started this mission, I was like, Carmen, will you do my show? And this is one of my, I got to speak to Carmen Hunter. She's one of my mentors. She's the woman who took my coaching career and really, for lack of a better word, just 10x'd.

the volume and the quality and the sustainability of my business. I really owe that 110 % to the Institute of Functional Health Coaching to which she is the creator and the chair and it's her brainchild. So Carmen, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I talk about you pretty much maybe three, four times a week. So I'm still talking about you and your successes and just what a sheer joy you are and our story about how you were like,

I'm about to be on stage, I have to go. I'm like, okay. my God, I love it. I'll frame that for everybody. Cause as you know, when you start searching something, like, let's say I'm looking at, you know, functional health training, coaching, 10Xing my income. Of course you get these ads pop up on your Facebook social media feed. So I see Carmen's ads start to pop up and I'm in the middle of a production of a Christmas Carol in Boston.

And I'm like about to run to stage and she answers like my Facebook message and I'm like, is this school legit? Are you real? Is this a scam? And she's like, listen, she's like, here's what I can tell you get. Here's what you won't get. Here's the deal. If you want to do this, you're in. If not, it's fine. Go explore something else. And I was like, that was I just knew from the resonance in your voice that it's like it was the place I was meant to be caught. Yes. Yes. I'm solid in my belief in what we do and what we offer.

It's so good. It's so good. So let's give the audience a little Let's give them a little backstory about the Institute for functional health coaching because you truly are You know you have it such a unique voice and you've created a place for students to train go get in there What are your core beliefs about coaching? Okay, so my core beliefs are that we need to we need to stop overwhelming people and start Underwhelming them by getting back to the basics of what it means to start a health journey

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (03:22.595)
So, you know, what I teach my coaches is, you know, it's great to be handed all of these complex, you know, things to help with all these chronic conditions and problems. But what's really happening is we've got two kinds of people that are looking for us, standard American people and overwhelmed symptom chasers. And it's my responsibility as the founder of the Institute for Functional Health Coaching to teach coaches how to store that wonderful knowledge that they've gotten from all the studying and their own health journey stored in their mind.

But really remember who we're working with here. Let's start using language that people understand. Let's start meeting people where they are and get them to where they want to be based on their intuition and what they think is best for themselves. Way too often, I've seen people coming out of schools with an agenda of how to help people and it's a stamp and rinse and repeat process. Do this elimination diet, do this cleanser, this detox, and then you get back with me in a month. When in reality, that's not how people need to be helped. We need to get more connected. We need to communicate better. need to

Remember that we were all that person that started at one point without the knowledge that we have right now. And just take a deep breath before we sit down with people and just start to show up as real people helping real people. So that's the goal of the school. Yeah. Yeah. I'll offer this, you know, before we get into some of the fun stuff. When I used to meet people in Starbucks, you know, for a trade, they would like, I'll buy you a coffee. Tell me all you know about health and wellness. You know, I would sit there for like two, three hours.

giving these people like my 10 years of knowledge that I had learned because I felt I had no value or didn't have who am I to give someone, you know, up leveled information about health and wellness. And not only would I not get paid for like some of the energy exchange, but I would sit there and people would be so overwhelmed. They would walk away from that session. They wouldn't do any of it because

You know, I was going off on like all these high level detoxification pathways in the body that needed to be opened up and happen. And they just look at me like, uh, and there was no, there was no repeat business. was no coaching relationship. There was no session two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12. And what, what Carmen, I think you taught me is that you've got to go simple and realize that you're meeting a person that's there just dipping their toe in the water. Maybe it's just.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (05:39.005)
they're reaching out for help, so meet them where they're at. Don't overwhelm. You're gonna structure something. This is like a, it's a long-term relationship you're wanting to get in. You don't give away everything on the first date or they're not coming back. So it was like this, and to get people to a place where they can make a decision, oftentimes there's a huge portion of the one hour, two hours that you're working that's about education.

It's about bringing understanding. It's not about information. often say this my biggest takeaway from your school is that we are drowning in information. We're starving for knowledge. Yeah, because so many somebody that can put it in practice and I think that if you can speak that way to a human being which it's very rare that you go find help that delivers that you're you've got a gold you've got a niche you've got you will not want for clients and that's one thing

after I'm in seriously like five months, I never wanted for a client. There was never a time when I was like, oh, I need more money. Like it was like, oh my God, what am I gonna do to receive all these people and open up the doors? Yeah, yeah. I remember. And you were always my example. I'm like, you guys, do you see Freddie in here on Wednesdays at 1230 anymore? Is he popping into the student page very often? He's not because he's taken everything he's learned and he's out there, he's working with people. That's what we need to do, right?

I miss that student page. You have such a unique, wonderfully dynamic group of students that you attract to your school. And it really is. They're very, very special people. I'm sure you feel that way. do. I love them. They're like my little family. Yeah. Yeah. So Carmen, while we were while we were going through the process of training and then eventually I worked with the Institute of Functional Health Coaching, you know, we did some we just we made some magic together and the business side of things. And while while we were going through this process,

You were going through some really heavy personal things that you alluded to, but you never got into. You you would hint and say, when I'm ready, when you guys are ready to sit your ass down in a seat and receive, I'm gonna shock everybody. And there's some stuff I've got to talk about going on in my life. And I think you've moved through some of that. And now I think we're gonna get into that a little bit on this episode.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (07:57.394)
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna get into it. Yeah, and and you're right. You're absolutely right I I was being very protective of my child and Myself and my emotions that were wrapped up in in one of the you know The top traumas that any any I dare say women but men go through this too But the majority of them are women what we experience Yeah, so I didn't handle a lot of things great during that time for my own personal self. I made a lot of mistakes

And I look back and I think, I should have done that different, right? But the one thing that I did do was I did not put my life out on social media because I was angry and hurt. It's one of the things that I like to talk, you know, I see women all the time and I say, pull that down. Don't put that up there. Protect yourself and your family and your child at this time. And we'll figure out how we share the story in a way that makes sense. That is a podcast in and of itself right there.

I mean, we can just go into that. Carmen, will you, can you just, can you just open up and just share with everybody just kind of what unfolded in your marriage of, of, of an over a number of years. You guys were partnered for, for quite a long time. Yes, we were almost two decades. Um, okay. So, um, you know, I had a, and it just quick background, uh, you know, small community, large city, small community, um, and generations of my ex's family lived in that community. So we were.

relatively well known. was the health coach in town that talked about things that nobody else talked about. Members of the country club, know, nice house, nice neighborhood, smart kid, owner of my husband, ex-husband was the owner of a business. And, you know, from the outside, it looked like, hey, you know, gosh, and we have people all the time. Well, you don't know, you don't, you don't struggle with these problems. You have no idea what it's like to argue with your spouse or whatever. I never was that woman that was like out there talking about all of the hard parts of my marriage in public, right?

I mean, I commiserated with women. Yeah, I left the dang toilet seat up again, that kind of thing. But the difficult stuff was kept under wraps because God forbid, you know, anyone see that we weren't a perfect family that had it all together, right? But behind the scenes, there was very little, if any connection at all. Lots of fighting, a dynamic dance that was going back and forth. It was very toxic for the two of us until it exploded one night. And I always have to backtrack because it's been a whirl of time the last couple of years.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (10:15.646)
I to say it was 2017 in February. I had made my big gluten-free lasagna. My kid was there with his friend. They were out in the woods with flashlights, know, adventuring. And my ex-husband and I were going to watch one of our favorite shows and have dinner. And I came around the corner and caught him texting with a woman, which I didn't realize that until I got around to the front of him. And I said, and I'd never had a suspicion in my life. And I'm not kidding you. So the women out there that say, how did you not know? Let me just tell you this much.

I had no idea. This is a down home, down to earth community guy that everyone loved. You know, football player when he was in high school, all the moms wanted their daughters to date him. Good standup guy, right? And when I came around the site, something just got me and I said, who are you talking to? And I remember stuttering, like almost like I couldn't get the question out. And he looked straight up at me and to his credit, he said, I'm having an affair. Looked me right in the eye and said, I'm having an affair.

And so I just want to touch on this for just a quick second, because I don't think people quite understand what happens when that kind of information is delivered to you. And at the time we were married 16 years, you don't, you have no idea the stuff that floods your body and what happens to your brain. You get literally your lid, as my therapist would say, gets flipped up and you lose all sense of what's happening around you. So there were pieces, I was holding a beautiful gluten-free lasagna dish. hadn't eaten yet. Right. And I remembered.

pieces of that moment. So when you go into shock like that, which is what happened, you only remember bits and pieces. And it's not the pieces you want to necessarily. You go in and out of consciousness of what's happening to you. for, you know, I don't even know the timeframe. Several moments after that, I was hysterical. I remember screaming in his face, you know, what? Is this a joke? Is this a joke? I just remember saying that over and over again. And him looking at me and saying,

No, it's true. And he was shaking. Okay. He was, could tell he was, was his voice was shaking and I reached out to grab the phone. At one point I had it in my hand because I wanted to know who it was and I don't know how I lost it again. But then the series of events, my son came up with his friend. I was screaming. I had thrown a casserole dish on the floor, but let me just throw this out there. I put my full Azonia dish down on the granite countertop and picked up an empty one and threw the empty one on the floor.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (12:41.288)
I have the wherewithal to not make a mess. Which is what brought my dad in itself is an indication of how unhealthy mentally I was at the time. Right. but that brought the kid coming up and, then from that moment on, I remember the children leaving. said, go pack your things. You're spending the night at someone's house house. got on the phone and called my friends one after the other, because I knew that I couldn't get through this by myself. And, he started to try to get his things to leave. And I remember.

just hitting him, you know, or trying to, or whatever. I don't even remember. I just remember being so hurt and infuriated and pieces of that night were so blank for me. All the stress hormones that you and I talk about, all the cortisol, all the adrenaline, everything in me, crying, screaming, everything. And the next thing I know, I'm on the driveway. I don't remember how we got out there. He's in his jeans with no shoes, no keys, no shirt, nothing. I mean, no shirt.

just keys and a telephone and a pair of jeans. Then he got in his car and he drove away. And the next thing I know, all these cars start showing up to my house and my friends are showing up one after the other. And I don't even remember, I know I called one of them, but the other ones, I have no idea. I'm like, do you know? And they were like, you called, you called. So if that tells you that that kind of shock and that kind of trauma.

will literally take your entire nervous system and shake you up and turn you upside down like nothing you've ever experienced. And so that was the actual initial time, the first time that I found out. Fast forward, I mean, I don't even know where you want me to go with this, except that I know that for 45 days, I had no idea who this person was, that he was having this affair with. And we lived in a community where I thought all I wanted to know was who it was. Is it one of my friends? Is it the local barista?

Where is this woman? Everywhere I went, I was living with stress hormones flooding my body. Is it the person that waited on me at Starbucks? I don't know. And so one of the things I learned through this experience was one of the worst things you can do to someone who's been betrayed is keep them from knowing who the person is. It's one of the worst things that can happen to you because the stories that we tell ourselves and the things that we create in our bodies, in our minds are beyond anything that could be the truth. we think, right?

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (15:03.385)
And so anyway, know, lots of things happened. He showed up at the house filed for divorce, told me that, you know, served me papers while I was at a soccer practice. My son was estranged from his father. So there was no communication there. So I became entrepreneur, single mother of a, you know, a teenage child, three dogs trying to build a business, trying to get divorced, trying to figure out what happened, all of that. It was the most stressful time I can, I can even explain to you. I even remember telling my team, said,

I just need you guys to do whatever you have to do and apologize later. I don't even know how to function right now. Right. But do know one thing I did do is I showed up all the time on video and alive to show people I'm still here just to stay slightly connected and feel some normalcy. anyway, the time came and there's so much in between, but the time came where I finally felt, all right, I'm going to file for divorce. You know, he wanted to file a reconcilable differences. said, hell no, we're going to file the truth here. This is adultery, plain and simple.

And he called and asked if he could come home and tell me what happened. And desperate for the truth, I said, yes, you can come and tell me what's going on. Where are you right now? He was out of town with her on a trip in California. He said, when I get back to the airport, I'll call you. And I said, start talking. I want to know who it is. And when he came in, I found out who it was. And it was a staff member of the school that my child went to. Teacher at the school. Then I was passing her in car line.

every day and didn't know it. So, you know, finding that out alone was another significant trauma is that here this person was watching me, you know, pick up my child every day. And, you know, and then I have to say that along with that came 12 other, I don't know how to even explain it, disclosures with 12 separate people.

So at the time of disclosure of that, he was forthcoming with everything. And I'm not going to get into the details of it, but let me just say that these were not relationships that he had. The teacher was the relationship, but the rest were not. So there was a lot of risk involved there with my health and our family. And there was money of our money that was involved in these things. lots and lots of pain surrounding disclosure.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (17:23.406)
But around that came the request that I give him an opportunity to you know be who he was and show up as he was and overcome some of the The problems that came with this right? This is an addictive quality involved in this problem, right? Yeah, so that's the first part of the story right came home We tried to make it work and it happened again Happened again. So it wasn't very long after that the October of that same year

Another another betrayal and then another disclosure the final disclosure on April 2nd of 2018 Yeah And walked out the door and never back and so yeah, and so yeah, you can only imagine so totally in all there was 15 separate betrayals 14 or 15 I actually lose track believe it not because I've worked so hard on overcoming so many of these pieces and you know along with that

A lot of me trying to figure out, not blame myself or own what he did by any stretch. I never blamed myself. I never said I wasn't pretty enough, especially after I saw who the affair was with, that it wasn't about the way I looked physically, that I wasn't fit enough or I didn't look a certain way. That was evident to me. She was exactly the opposite from me. And when it comes to size and how she presented herself, it was more, what role did I play in this relationship that allowed it to get to the point where this person

didn't feel comfortable enough with his discomfort in the relationship to say, is no longer working, what can we do? So, you know, an important part of the healing process for me after this type of betrayal and trauma, not only was it therapy almost every day of the week, for two straight weeks, I had to have therapy with somebody because I didn't feel like I could do this by myself. But it was more me digging in and saying, okay, what do you have to fix so that this never happens to you again? Right?

Yeah. So that's what I've the last couple of years have been all about, you know, the last four years since the initial betrayal was figuring all of that out. And boy, did I get an education in what part I played in, this problem and the failure, failure, whatever the falling apart of the marriage. Yeah. Falling apart of a marriage, that process of literally an ultimate breakdown of communication of trust, the family nest. So

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (19:43.43)
There's so many things we could unpack with what you went through, but for you, I would love to know as a coach, as someone who is all about health and wellness, what did this do to your body? Well, to every female that saw me, they were like, whoa, you look fantastic. How much weight have you lost? Because what happens to you when you're under that kind of stress is your whole body shuts down.

My hormones tanked, my digestive system completely stopped. I lost almost 12 pounds, which I'm not a very big person anyway. But you know, at the time I was like 47 years old. When you lose almost 12 pounds on my frame, I just started to look older. I mean, I have a picture where I literally was holding onto skin on my stomach and going, this is not attractive, right? But I couldn't eat. Everything I looked at made me nauseous. My back would burn.

from my adrenal glands, which a lot of people don't know, they sit on top of your kidneys and your back. They were burning, burning from working so hard. I could feel it. I'm like, why am I so hot? Right? The cortisol rushes through my system. my gosh. Here's the funny thing about it though, Freddie, is I never lost sleep. I never lost, I didn't lay awake and ruminate.

I followed that circadian clock, I'd be damned. I was going to bed as close to the sun going down as I could and getting up in the morning to figure out my life. And maybe that's one of the reasons why sleep was, you know, I was able to sleep, you know, is the one thing that stayed true to me the whole time. I can tell you that I lost, I ended up with H pylori, the infection of helicobacter pylori, right? from loss of stomach acid, you know, my vitamin B, my iron, everything, my magnesium.

I knew enough to do labs to see what, could I keep my finger on and what, could I actually help to control? But when you're not eating and you can't take supplements because you're not eating, right? There's not a whole lot that your body's going to take for a very long time. And so I was literally felt like a shell of a human being. My mind wasn't sharp. I looked exhausted all the time. I even had people say, are you okay? And I'm like, I don't know. Cause no one really knew what was happening. So I couldn't say.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (22:01.275)
You wouldn't be okay if this was happening to you. You know what I mean? Like I was so I was trying to cover up so much. Carmen, what do you think that is? Because what you're describing to me, I'm listening to the backside of the equation. Why was your body basically shutting down? Why don't you want to eat? Why do the adrenal glands want to turn off? For lack of better term.

Mm Yeah. Well, because again, it's trauma. It's trauma, trauma 100 % across the board. And it's different for everyone how they experience trauma, right? Trauma isn't what happens to you. It's how your body reacts to what happens to you. That's the traumatic thing that our body goes through. And here's the thing. It's you. We are such miracles, right? Our bodies know exactly what to do. And I think what happened for me was my body knew that I only had like a glass, right?

You know, you have a glass and it's empty and you pour stressors into it. Okay, we got a little bit of this raising a child by yourself. Now you're the taxi driver. Okay, you got to a new car because you can't afford, you can't keep the car you got because you're putting miles on it because you're the only driver. you still want to cook food for your kid. you've got three dogs to take care of. You haven't been on your own in how long and you've got to learn how to make money, right? wait a minute. you're supposed to go live because your team is telling you have to. wait, sales are down. And then you get to the top of that cup.

right? That glass is supposed to hold all that stress and it overflows. So your body knows this, that you've got all these things to do. You've got to survive. Life's going to continue. This is why I'm not a big believer in stress reduction or management. I didn't know how to see the things in my life differently so that I could survive the stress that I was under. So my body took over for me. All right, we're going to stop digestion because anything you put in your mouth is going to come out looking like it did in the first place. Okay. So we're going to stop that. Thyroids going, hello.

help. You know, I'm the messenger and all the messages I'm getting is that this woman is still going when she needs to slow down. So I'm going to try to slow her down for her. It's almost like you have no control. Your body puts you where it needs to be. And so, you know, I didn't have control over that. It wasn't that I didn't want to eat. I wanted to enjoy the food, but I couldn't digest it. So my body said, no, my brain said, I agree. Let's just put that on the back burner.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (24:18.046)
You know, it's funny, it brings up a story for me that I've heard this many, many times that when Roman gladiators would be out at war for 18 months, 24 months, they would send them off in the woods alone with like a bag of mushrooms for like six months. And they're like, go, they'd have to be alone and just allow the body to process the trauma of war. So they weren't showing back up in the town.

murdering their own families. had to deal. It's almost like the other example that I love is like when you see a dog getting a fight and that dog goes and shakes and it just spins that trauma off the body. But as human beings, like what you've just said to me, you had designed this life where there was no room for you to go really experience and feel the trauma and grief. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up because here's one of the things, you know, that, that I,

I really want to push this home because I feel like it's really important when a woman gets betrayed and she gets left or abandoned, right? The word abandon is one of those words that's kind of I'm playing with a little bit. have always had, I always had abandonment issues as a child, right? I had some childhood trauma, right? But here's the thing, as adults, we cannot be abandoned, right? We can be left, but we cannot be abandoned. But if the story in our mind,

is that we've been abandoned and we're fearful of abandonment, right? Well, look what happened. What happened? It was like self-fulfilling prophecy. I feared abandonment all of my life. I marry someone who is going to do what? Bring my biggest wound to the surface for me and show it to me with a shining light. Here you go, right? If you didn't want to fix that problem from growing up, I'm going to show you that you have no choice. So the problem with that is this, is that he got to go away and go to treatment.

paid for by his mother. He got to go heal, pet horses and come into his own. And then he got to come home and go to an apartment that had no responsibilities, no dogs, no bedfills, no children, right? Please, I know how hard it is for him. I hear about it to not have contact with his son. I can't even imagine that. Okay. But as the person that was left behind, like, it's like, think of all the things that were left behind as shrapnel.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (26:31.521)
The dogs that still need to be walked, fed and paid $500 a month for to care for, right? Their food, their medicine, all of that. The child who still needed to go to soccer in Nashville and go to, you know, to school and all of those things. The business you're trying to build that you now have no choice. It's not just like, Oh, well, we did pretty well this month. I have to figure out how to start myself over again. How do you reinvent your whole life when you've been supported by someone who makes six figures every year and you, you don't have that opportunity. So that's shrapnel. That's what I consider shrapnel.

So how do you pick those pieces up and make them into something whole again? When you don't get the luxury of going away to heal yourself or having a quiet night at home to meditate and think about things. You don't. And that was the hardest part for me. Not only that, but I had to pay for all of my own therapy for what someone else put me through, right? That's all. yeah. That alone is traumatizing. Yeah. Yeah, it is. So, but my point is this is that I can look back on that stuff and I can say,

Okay, well, he, he, he, he, right? And sometimes I still do that with the financial stuff. still go really, you know, but with all the other stuff, I'm like this. I was forced to see what caused him to make the decisions that he made. And I was forced to see myself as I really was in that marriage and what was making me make the decisions that I made and how very bad we were for each other. Very toxic situation.

But you can't see that when you're in it. It's called the crazy dance, right? You've got one person who's dismissive, avoidant, and emotionally detached. And you've got one person who created codependency in her life and is a chaser because she needs that solid person to love her, right? Because that's all I knew, right? It was broken in me. I'm chasing him, he's running away. So here's the beautiful thing is we've been in therapy for a couple years.

Right. And he lied to therapists. looked right at the therapist and he said, I'm a hundred percent committed to this relationship. Wiley was having the affair. Okay. With that said, I have to say that because he had to say those things to make himself feel better. I had to clean the floors, do all the laundry, make every meal and be the perfect wife and mother to cope with what was happening over here. So we were literally like just.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (28:55.245)
Crashing into each other with all of our dysfunction with no way to fix it Something was bound to happen So here's the most surprising thing that I say that women who have been through this that I coach and work with they're like I'll never do that. I'm like, okay. Well, that's part of the problem I now see this experience and I am grateful to him For what he did, you know why? Because he gave me a new life. He gave me a window to who I really truly was

He allowed us both to get out and really start to experience what pure joy is about, right? So yes, it sucked, okay? It was a terrible delivery method to ending a marriage. Come on, we were married almost 18 years, right? But I didn't have the guts to get out and I've been thinking about it for 10 years prior to this happening. How can I get out of this marriage? I'm so unhappy. How do I do this? How do you leave? You don't, you stay together for the kids. No, no, you don't. You don't have to live like that.

but I was too scared to get out. And so when that happened, I now look back and go, that was truly, yeah, hard, but now I'm over here and I see it as, okay, it was a gift, not only for him, but for me as well.

What did you learn about yourself? You said you had like this flashlight shine on Carmen and you had this discovery of what were some truths that came forward for you out of this process. Okay, well, they're not pretty, but you know what? In the interest of being authentic and vulnerable, which is something I'm working really hard on teaching my coaches how to be that way, right? To teach people. I needed to be able to say that

I did not know how to validate myself. I did not find, I did not have the self worth within me to validate myself to know I was enough without him. And then when I look back at the history of my relationships, I went, my God, they were all that way. They didn't all cheat by any stretch. Maybe one or two of them had, I don't know, but we're talking about college relationships here. Cause I got married when I was what, 30, 30 years old, right? So majority of my adult life was spent with this man.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (31:08.771)
But what I also realized was, you know, the only person in this world that's responsible for themselves, for how their life turns out is themselves, right? So while it would have been easy the first time around to blame him, which I did, you this and you that and you this, instead of looking at myself and going, wait a minute now, hold on, why didn't you stand up for yourself? Why didn't feel that I was worthy? Why didn't you speak your truth? Well, I was afraid he would leave.

which took me even deeper down the rabbit hole of discovery for myself, which was to say, wait a minute, I'm living on truths that I was taught as a child, right? So we all say, I had a great upbringing in my middle-class family. I never wanted for anything except I was living in a dysfunctional situation with my family and I felt like I was emotionally neglected, which created this survival codependency.

How do I survive? become codependent. Well, how come you did that? Because I watched my mom do it. Right? So I became codependent in my relationship so I would not be abandoned. So shining a light on that truth right there and knowing that, holy crap, I'm not that little girl anymore that needs that. I'm a grown ass woman. That's a bad ass. Come on. And I can do anything and I can take care of myself. And I don't need anyone else to do that for me. Hands down, the biggest truth I've ever.

experience. am I 110 % there? No, I still have these moments where I'm like, uh, and then I'm like, wait a minute now, you know, get in your adult pants and face this situation like a grownup, right? I'm very clear about when I'm wearing my, you know, when I have my child driving the bus, you know, I always say, you know, come on, get out of the driver's seat. Those are grownup problems in the back of that bus. I'm a grownup. Let me drive that for you. So it's a visual. It's a visual I give to myself when I feel myself sinking back into some of those

old core beliefs and programs that don't work for me anymore. Those are hard truths to face. is. It is. What do you think, you know, I've often heard people say that when you, when you truly heal yourself, would you do that deep work that you're healing generations forward and backward? What do you think you've done for your son's vision and imprint of what it means to not only stand up for yourself, but what a

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (33:28.503)
what relationships are that they're not always beautiful storybook that but sometimes they're they're awful and messy and it is what it is. What do you think that's done for him? gosh, well we talk about it. I mean we just had this conversation two weeks ago because now you know he's 15 and he's like liking the girls and all that stuff and I was saying now you know what's the most attractive thing to a girl right is that a man is solid and confident in who he is and he has good boundaries and he's secure in himself that makes her feel like she can be

Herself and that creates this, communication is bond, right? And so I was kind of explaining the dynamic that went on but between his dad and I and I was saying, you know You saw an example of an unhealthy relationship And I know that you're angry with your dad and I understand trust me I get it right But what you what you really don't know and what I've tried to share with you is that I had a part to play within that as well We should have come together and communicated with each other and respected each other's boundaries and and been honest with each other

And we weren't able to do that. We weren't able to do that. And so in turn, we showed you an example of how a family should not function, right? So I'm telling you this because I want you to have security and I want you to find validation from within yourself. And I want you to trust yourself. And I want you to put good boundaries up and understand that you are good enough exactly as you are and that you should never care more about another person than you care for yourself. You can care equally, right? So many people get stuck on that.

me first, put yourself first business. Okay, great. See how your relationships turn out with that. But what about if we loved ourselves as much as we're willing to love another person? Right? So I teach him that I talked to him about those things. I try to let him know what you went through was extremely traumatic. And I apologize on all accounts for my, for whatever part I play in, in, what you witnessed or what you were experienced and for any, you know, he says, I told you never let him back.

I told you not to let him back in this house. I knew this would happen. This was my then 13 year old child. And I said, you know what? You're right. And that was hard for me too. And my ex husband will tell you, you never want to say you're wrong. You can never admit you're wrong. And he was right because if I admit that I was wrong, then I'm vulnerable to whatever he might do to me. Right? So to say to my son, you're absolutely right. And I'm so sorry for not listening to that. Right.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (35:52.54)
I'm still the parent and the adult, but sometimes kids wisdom comes in from such an innocent place. If we don't pay attention to that, we could be missing a really big story. You know, I say kids and dogs have sort of exempt from the placebo effect. Like if you seriously, I mean, if you want to talk about, if you want to talk about somebody who's really honed into the S the S button, right. They, pretty much know. And that's why I'll often

work people through, know, whenever I coach somebody on health and wellness, it's never about like the food and the supplements and the transformational tech. It's about the emotional being. It's about the parameters to which you operate in the world, how you're processing information. And kids know. And the one thing that comes up is that, you know, let's say, let's say we've got a relationship going on, right? Mom and dad, they're not quite vibing. It doesn't feel good. The first thing I hear parents say is,

Well, I don't want to disrupt this for the children. feedback is, trust me, it's disrupted. They're feeling it and vibing off all of it, whether you choose to speak the word or not. They're picking it up in the subtleties, in the language, in the little quips, in the kitchen. They get it all. They're like these sponges of like pureness, right? gosh, yeah. 100%. That is the truth. That is the truth. So you gotta listen.

Like when you get that ping as a parent or a guardian or a guide to your child, you know, you're sherpaing these little dudes and if they're giving you the feedback that there's something going on, it's authentic. And whether you speak the word to them or not, they know what's going on. They do 100%. I'm so glad you said that because that's the other thing that we need to remove the stigma about is that, you know, people always say, a child needs their father. I hope you get him. I hope that they can repair this. And I'm like,

A child needs, a son needs, it needs a a healthy role model as a male, right? It's not always going to be in that moment going to be the father or whatever. It might be a coach or a friend's father or something like that. So this little family dynamic, mom, dad, nice house, country club, Land Rover, smart kid, all this stuff, we had all of that, but we were missing the substance. to my ex-husband's credit again, and the only reason I can say this is because I've done the work on myself.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (38:14.108)
is that he always used to say, I miss connection, I want a connection. And I was like, I couldn't even put words to it because that's what I wanted too. But we could not find that connection together. So here's the belief, you know, is that, well, if a kid sees their parents together, they know it's a solid family unit. Okay, no, no, they don't know. If the kid sees conflict amongst parents and the ability to honor each other and respect each other with boundaries and.

Let that person be wrong or right and still love them anyway and come together, right? That's healthier than just people sharing space together. That means absolutely nothing. It means nothing. Cause we shared space together for a long time. Life is so short and it is so important that above all, I think we live authentically. And that's what you know, that's what you have moved into, you and your son. And we, need to

We need to, I think we need to re-examine personally. mean, listen, people are gonna be like, Freddie, you're not in a relationship, you're not married. However, I am very, I'm a very observant human being and I do see this. think the contract of marriage needs to be re-examined. Or stopped altogether. Or whatever it is, but you know, I have this beautiful, I have this beautiful couple in my life and they're always, she's queuing me up to the fact that

Why don't we recommit to each other every day, every year? What is this for better or for worse a lifetime? Because we're on these completely different roads. We evolve at different times, at different places. There's no reason in the short time we're here on the planet that you need to live in suffering if that person isn't engaged with you in a healthy agreement.

Completely 100 % agree with you and the guy I'm dating right now we have when we first started talking and he was like I don't believe in marriage because he'd been married before I don't believe in marriage. It's a piece of paper and I was like Well, this is there's no future here is what I was thinking right? But if I really like this guy and then I was like wait a minute very quickly. I'm like Exactly. Why do we want why is someone else allowing? You know telling us how to spend our money or how to talk who we can see in the hospital or it's a piece of paper

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (40:31.69)
You know, he said, I'll give you all of the commitment you want and I'll write all the vows you want, but I'm not bringing the government into this, right? I'm not going to do it. There's no reason someone should sign a piece of paper that says we're committed to each other. That doesn't make any sense. So, and I agree with that a hundred percent. I agree with that a hundred percent. found more meaning in this last year, well, 14, almost 15 months of being with this person and more connection and truth and honesty and communication and boundaries. And oh my God.

than I ever had in my entire marriage of five days short of 18 years. Wow. And that, I'm telling you, is a real eye-opener. Yeah. What is that? Oh my goodness, for all the people out there. I know there are people just gripping their steering wheel, because this is going to bring up uncomfortable feelings around what we've designed, right?

So we've designed this model, it's based in whatever we could pick this. This could be a whole podcast series for 10 years. We could talk about what we've modeled and designed for ourself and where it actually came from. But I really like this idea of recommitting to each other on the daily, on the monthly. My one fear, the thing that comes up for me is, and this is probably a personal thing, is that

is that you do, get attached to that person, your special person, you know, your person to be there and cook the gluten-free casseroles with, to watch the Netflix, to go on vacation. And the idea that, I mean, obviously I have some work to do on re-examining my old confines, but that that person could just leave you and just go. there would be, you know, I know there is an idea that it does, you're locked in, but also there's a safety net in that too. There's a feeling of security that

This this is my person we committed we we we paid all this money for this one special day I mean they can't just walk out But there is this beauty in in this idea of recommitting daily monthly on on the year So you you evolve I would assume that these agreements evolve, correct? Listen, your friends are on it. So here let me let me turn you on your heel a little bit more. Okay. Yeah, so here's the thing

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (42:53.62)
The belief that people, if you sign up and you have this big, beautiful wedding and this person is your person, and do you remember the movie when Harry met Sally? yeah, come on. Of course, really? Come on. Right, we were best friends before we got married. We were best friends like them. I dated, he dated, but we always came back to each other. We always came back to each other. That's part of the wound, by the way. You were going to always be attracted to the person who exposes your wound in order to heal it.

Always, 100%, you cannot avoid it unless you're healthy in your mind and your body, right? Okay, do remember when she said, I wanna know that you're legally required to be there? Do you remember that? When they said, well, something about marriage, I wanna know he's legally required to be there. Guess what? My ex-husband, we had a big, beautiful wedding. We signed the papers, we invested the money. We had the half a million dollar home. We had the Land Rover. We watched Netflix together. Guess what? He left anyway.

So if you think that that ties you into another person, there's an insecure belief inside of you that you think that that somehow some lock and key that ties you that person forever. But what really ties you to another person and your friends, like I said, they're on it, is that you wake up every day and you choose to commit to that person every single morning and with every decision that you make. That means that you're that same person when you're out at a bar with your friends.

that you are with that person that you're with. And if you ever feel when you're out at a bar with your friends or you're out and that person's at home, you find yourself being drawn to someone else, that person is no longer your person for a reason. They've come into your life, they've served your purpose, they've healed a wound or they've exposed a wound. And that relationship is going through something that you're supposed to pay attention to. it doesn't, there's no, recommitting is an all day, every day kind of thing.

But you don't do that with marriage. It's almost like a freebie. I the contract signed. We're in. Now I don't have to behave myself because they're tied to me for life. And guess what else? That financial security. Well, we've invested money and we share this and all that. I lost all of it. Yeah. Very little of it. Did I retain a very little of it? Do I get to keep? Okay. Cause when my kid's gone, guess what else goes with it shortly after income. So there are no guarantees because of a piece of paper, but the guarantee comes when you are.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (45:17.354)
Solid in yourself. You understand what attachment you are because there's attachment theory we know right if you're this attachment style or this one know what your attachment style is Learn why boundaries are really powerful keep yourself grounded in who you are know that you're enough and If someone comes in to complement that and understand that I work through your wound with you and then you trigger their wound and you they work through theirs That's a partnership No piece of paper is gonna do that for you It's it's been

There's been a flashlight pulled onto this for whatever reason and in my life lately, many, many avenues doors are opening. People are wanting to talk about relationships, marriage, contracts, divorce, separation, new agreements. had an amazing podcast, a Nest thing where, you know, two of my best friends had decided decided to separate and

they're going to maintain the nest. So they made out a plan. They figure out how to get a second house with an Airbnb. They sat down, they crunched the numbers together, you know, as a team. Yeah. They came up with this beautiful solution. So I look at that extreme, right? And then I listened to your story. Here's another version of a story where somebody wanted to get out. And you know, there's so many different ways you could play it. What I would suggest is that

You know, if you're hearing this podcast and this resonates with you and you're like, huh, maybe it's a good time. should check in with my person, you know, and just see where, you know, cause it can is, is uncomfortable and as hard as you think the conversation is going to be. Trust me. If you don't talk about it, if you kick it under the rug, it's going to be worse. gosh. You have to be able to talk about these things and being in a new relationship with somebody, you know, he's got a wound that I trigger.

and he triggers my wound. We trigger each other's wound. And I had an Akashic record reading done a couple of weeks ago and she literally knew nothing about me. And she goes, are you in a relationship right now with someone who you guys have like opposing triggers? Like he triggers you and you trigger him? I said, yes, how did you know that? And she said, because how you guys are working it out is freaking beautiful. Because we allow that to happen. Cause what his wound is and what mine is has nothing to do with each other, right? None of it. But the beautiful thing,

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (47:32.814)
between us is that we get to look at it and I say, you know, I'm feeling kind of triggered right now. And he can say, shoot, I'm sorry. What can I do to help you feel better? So if we can't have an open communication, like I feel like I've lost the connection. How are you feeling? Can we check in with each other? That right there is a red flag. If you feel like you can't talk to the person that you share a bed with or space with or money with, because you can't share who you really are and be vulnerable enough to talk about the hard stuff.

That right there, that is a red flag. You don't even have to question yourself. If you feel uncomfortable having these conversations, you are in a relationship that is in trouble. Period. Period. And Carmen, you see, you you sound like from your experience, you've done you've done the work on this. Is this something that you feel passionate helping other women work through? gosh, yes. And they came out of the woodwork when when I started to show up and say,

my gosh, you can have your life. You can have a life you love after betrayal, infidelity and significant trauma, significant trauma. You can have a life you love. In fact, when it happens, that is a propel. That's a way to propel you forward to have that life. But what I find with women that I work with is this, is that they don't believe they're worthy of having that life, right? Same thing I used to feel like, thank God I had all the knowledge I have where I said, wait a minute, that's not really true, right?

So we spend a lot of time uncovering where did this belief come from that got you into this relationship that attracted this person to expose your wound. Because if we can find that, if we can find that, this will not happen to you again, right? And then you get to see that ex, that ex-husband or whatever. I don't even look at him and feel like I knew him as someone I was in love with anymore. I look at him as someone that I loved and yes, I still love him, unfortunately. It's cause I'm a big softie.

and I know what he went through and his upbringing was really crappy in many ways. I have compassion for him. I honestly, I tried to shut it down. I was so pissed at one time. Can I say pissed on here? Sure. Anyway, okay. But I said to my divorce attorney, said, I want to not care about him. I want to not feel bad for him. And she was like, well, we can make that happen. And I'm like, but I feel bad for him. You know what I mean? Okay. So you, mean, let's just,

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (49:57.626)
get into the little quantum physics sidebar for a second. from a particle physics, you guys are intertwined. Totally. do I believe that people can become untangled to a degree where it doesn't hurt so bad, but I think he will always have a part of you, you will always have a part of him for better or for worse. I think that's part of the gift.

Yeah, as much as we would like it to not be so I think that's part of the gift. Yeah. Yeah. I don't feel like I asked for it to be any different to be honest. You know, my only thing that's left now of all the shrapnel that was laying around, you know, we've moved. you know, I got, got through a lot of hard stuff with the business. mean, my, you know, my kid and I are doing great in a new city. Like life is, know, life always hands us stuff, but the only thing that I, that I still work on, I have to chip away at it is

is the financial part, you know, because as women, you know, this is a sensitive subject because women in power, we can do anything. And I believe that, right? I know that I'm gonna be okay, because I don't quit at anything and I don't fail at anything. I always, always follow things to the end and I succeed in whatever I do. But there's that piece that feels slightly like, was I not worth enough to at least financially take care of me?

of all the years that I gave almost 20 years of my life, feeding, taking care of laundry, house, kid, all of those things. I worked my ass off in that family to be left with very little to reestablish myself and get myself going. That's the little bite that I'm still trying to find it in myself and no keep pushing forward. You don't need him. You don't need his money. And the fact that he doesn't see that he did anything wrong. So that's not my yard though. That's his yard.

So when I think of that, he doesn't think he did anything wrong. Like that's none of your business. That's his business. Right. So I gently or sometimes kick it back over into his yard and keep moving forward. So I will say that it has been, this April will be a year that I've been actually divorced, but you know, we've been separated since April of 2018. almost it's crazy. Everything happened April. Our anniversary is in April too. Isn't that weird disclosure, divorce and marriage all in the month of April. There's gotta be some meaning there.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (52:18.236)
But I will say that I have navigated this with as much grace as I could possibly navigate it with, with grace to myself or when I didn't handle it the right way. And there are many things I wish I would have done differently, even towards him. He didn't deserve a lot of the things that I said or did. But when you're surviving, you're just trying to get through it. You gotta say, you know what, I did the best I could. But I have a deep passion going back to that of helping women.

get their power back and see that life, there's so much life to be lived no matter how old you are. One woman I'm working with, she's like, I'm 65, I'm just gonna stay. I'm like, 65? You can live like this for another 25 years? Have you lost your mind? Like, that's not okay, right? Mm-mm. So, yeah. One of my favorite places to work. I love it, I love it. And where would people reach out to you to explore that relationship? Yeah, they can just email me directly to my personal email at carmenhunterhealth at gmail.com.

That is the number one place for working with people through this. Yeah, and I answer all emails personally. Beautiful. What about a Ted talk in the future? my gosh, right? I know, I know it's on my map, but right now just gliding through with some, you know, some quietness in the life right now. We finally settled in. We haven't been here quite a year, but it's been on my map. I'd love to talk about this. You know, we need to shine a light on this in a bigger way, like a freaking lighthouse light.

There is a stigma around being betrayed and being the betrayer. You know what I mean? But you know what? We're all human beings. You know, people betray themselves on the daily when they eat a pack of Oreos. Come on. You know, we're all just human beings. Let's just show up with all our stuff and what we learn and how we fix our wounds, share that with other people and stop seeing these things as such a dirty little secret. It's happening to probably a lot of people right now that are listening. Right. When you think that nothing's happening.

It could be. I'd say 100 % probably across the board. As human beings, we're here to learn. We're not necessarily here to do or make or create anything that's going to withstand the test of all time because it's not. Right. It won't. I mean, just get over yourself, get over your creation, your invention, your school, your platform. It's like, listen, we're learning, we're processing. So I think making yourself as vulnerable

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (54:41.188)
is you just have on the podcast is a beautiful example of that. think, know, again, just to give you a little praise, putting yourself out there with with your school and your platform and your tribe through Institute of functional health coaching or mentorship and mastery is that you still have that group as well. Yeah, the health coaching group, health coaching group on Facebook, which is thriving. If you're a coach and you're looking to have some mentorship as well, it's another, you know, fabulous high level group. But just to

You you do, you put yourself out there and there is no, there is not hesitation or pause with, well, can I do it? You really do go for it. So I think that's really beautiful, Carmen. It's really beautiful. And I think you, again, you you've been through this, you have the tools.

I would imagine that people will be reaching out from this podcast. We have a lot of reach in a lot of countries across the world. And we're all the same when it comes to our hearts. We're all the same. It's universal. It's universal. We all just want to be loved and connected. And how we go about doing that, it's no different. It's no different. I'm interested, have you talked to any, have any men come forward being on the side of betrayal?

Yeah, I actually had one that just kind of popped in and said it's not just women that this happens to And I said, I 100 know that to be true I watched it happen in my hometown one of a person I used to bike with was having a wide open in public affair You know and I know that to be true But you know, you know, I speak to women because I am a woman I come from that experience, but I also have to say this too

that it's very important that we see the betrayer's side of things because, and I know that sounds crazy, and I'm not trying to, what I'm trying to do is take us, people who have been betrayed out of victim role, because we're not victims, okay? We're not victims, and for lack of a better term. But I like to look at his side of things as well, as what caused you to get to this place where you felt like there were no other options for you but to betray yourself, your wife.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (56:49.223)
your family and put every single thing that you work so hard for at risk. No man in their right mind or woman is going to do that unless there's something really deeply wrong there. So understanding the betrayers side of things can give us a really unique perspective into the fact that you know what, there are no accidents in what happens, right? If we are all broken, like you said, beautifully broken, we all come from a place of woundedness, right?

My woundedness is, you my co-dependency behaviors might have been just as painful to him to live with as what he ended up doing to me. I don't know. Who am I to say what was hard for him or what was not? Right? All I can do is fix what happened to me, hope to have some compassion towards him, hope that the relationship between he and my son repairs itself so that my son sees that we're all just human beings, which is what I've told him, you know, and that we can all move forward and take these gifts we've been given because that's what they are.

and use them to help other people and create more connection and love and compassion in the world that we live in. Carmen, that's beautiful. As you said, I always ask people, what does it mean to be beautifully broken? You just answered it in a stunning Carmen fashion without being cued up. I love it. So we will no doubt, we'll do another one of these. We could talk on 2000 topics for 2000 years. you know, again, it's...

It's my pleasure and thank you for being on the episode. Thank you for sharing from such a vulnerable place. Yes, thank you for having me. It's amazing. People are really gonna, this one knocked it out of the park. Thank you so much. Self declared. You make it easy to be vulnerable. You're just so easy to talk to. mean, you're like my brother, I mean, from another mother and state. mean, like we've never even met and I still feel like I know never met. I know. I still feel like I'm closer to you than so many different people in my life that I used to see on a daily basis. So I just appreciate you and.

how you show up in this space as well. Thank you. Namaste, my friend. Love you. Ladies and gentlemen, you made it to the end of the podcast. Now in a world with average attention span is less than 10 seconds, we just spent almost an hour together. And I think this is the beginning of something really beautiful. Now one way to support the podcast is to head over to freddysetgo.com and check out my newly launched page, Freddy's Faves.

Freddie Kimmel and Carmen Hunter (59:11.394)
where I've linked every five-star product and healing modality you hear about on the show. Most offer significant discounts by clicking the link. And please note, it doesn't cost you anything extra, and at the same time, they support the show through affiliation. So check out Freddie's faves on freddysecco.com. This episode of the Beautifully Broken Podcast was brought to you by our sponsor, AmpCoil, upgrading the vibrations of hearts, minds, and bodies all over the world.

Thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's show, head over to iTunes and leave a five star review. Grabbing a download is like giving this virtual thumbs up that we're doing it right. And if you want to connect with me, shoot me a message on Instagram at freddysetgo.com or at freddysetgo. That's all for today. Our closing, our closing, the world is hurting. We need you at your very best. So take the steps today to always be upgrading, whatever it takes to move the needle. Remember, while life is pain, putting those fractured pieces back together is a beautiful process. I'm your host, I love you, namaste, have a wonderful day.