Biohacking in Blue: Joel Evan’s Journey from Law Enforcement to Holistic Health

WELCOME TO EPISODE 210

---

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT 

Freddie Kimmel (00:01.184)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the beautifully broken podcast. We are here with a long awaited guest, Joel Evan. Welcome to the show.

Joel Evan (00:10.029)
What's up, brother? Good to be here.

Freddie Kimmel (00:12.11)
So many things, so many things. I remember when I first met you and we were both really, really into everything wellness, everything human optimization. And I met you at a show and I was shocked to learn that you were a police officer, which blew my... I thought it was the coolest thing. I was like, wait a second. There's a law enforcement individual who's into all this longevity technology that I'm in.

Tell me about that.

Joel Evan (00:44.835)
Yeah, man. So, you know, it's crazy. So for people that don't know me background, I worked six years in Oakland, California. Okay. As a police officer. Now anybody that doesn't know Oakland, just to give them context. mean, just Google Oakland. It'll always come in top five, top 10 most deadliest violent cities in the United States. Right now there's something floating around. just saw like their number, they're like number 32 in the world at about 108 like cities. And they're like below Columbia, like Columbia, like Bogota Columbia is like

34 or something and they're like 32. So it's a dangerous place five years in Oakland is like a 20 year career in law enforcement Anywhere else like that's just and how do they come up with that? It's just based on the violence It's based on what you will see as an officer there The staffing is has always been low and so you always have to do the most with the least amount of cops you just see a lot faster than the average person and the criminals are really really good in Oakland because they're

relatively lenient in prosecution. So they learn how to get out of jail and then do crimes over and over again. And so they're really savvy compared to like the average criminal in the U S. So I did six years there. I went to San Francisco thinking the grass would be greener work there for about eight and a half years. And, just to give people context, people think San Francisco is a worldwide city and it is, but it's like playing wiffle ball compared to being in the pros, which is like,

as a police officer standpoint. And what happened for me, Freddie, is I just got disenfranchised with police work over time. my son was born 10 years ago, my first son, and I was like, you know, I don't feel the magnetic pull to do this anymore. Like, it just doesn't, doesn't satisfy me. doesn't, there's no, the craving isn't there like the way it was when I first started 25. And I think I just, you know, well, for me, I reached this level of like, I, I want to serve in a different way.

And there's more to life than me being successful and getting all these accolades and successes. I felt like I did pretty well. I'm like, how can I give back? so I was the thing, my son, so my son got me into biohacking. Just so you know, I've always been a big health guy, but as a new parent, I was sitting with him on my rocking chair, holding him for like two hours while he would nap.

Joel Evan (02:57.185)
I mean, it's the most ridiculous thing. Like parents shouldn't do that, but a lot of new parents do. And that's what I did. And so I'm like a productive person. I'm like, I got to figure out a way to be productive. So I'm just sitting here for two hours. So I started listening to podcasts and all of a sudden I stumbled upon Lewis Howe's podcast, School of Greatness. I stumbled upon Dave Asprey's podcast, the Bulletproof Radio and Ben Greenfield. And I said, my God, these guys are talking about health. I thought I knew health. These guys are talking about health and mindset and things I never even heard about. And that

led me down this path of wanting to know more. That led me to becoming a, the time, back in 2016, Dave Asprey had the Bulletproof Coaching Program, the Human Potential Institute. That led me to doing that. said, man, one day I want to be a coach. I want to leave police work. And then the last thing I would just tell your listeners is my mom got diagnosed with cancer probably like...

almost a decade ago, like 10 years ago. And I just remember feeling helpless. I'm like, I'm learning all these cool things in biohacking, like ozone and oregano oil and all these fascinating things. And I know a lot, but I also know very little. Like I can't, my mom has been diagnosed with cancer and I can't get her better. Like what am I gonna tell her? Like a typical biohacker is like, you should have some glutathione or take some charcoal or oregano oil. It's like, yeah.

but what are the systems and protocols to getting somebody better? Like I wanna know someone who can take you from A to Z and get you better, not just like, yeah, try this and like see what happens. Like that's a great biohacking thing to say, but like, can you get them better? And so that forced me to wanting to learn more and like, is there someone that's done it that actually legitimately has systems and protocols? And that led me to finding Dr. Cabral.

who has a lot of good protocols. I'm not saying he cures cancer, but the guy knows a fricking lot and he's always about, and he was a sick man, a sick kid, and he balanced himself and he has tons of, you he's done over 250 ,000 lab appointments and he's seen everybody and he's helped them. So that led me to working with him, being a student of him. then ever since, man, I've just continued down the path of like wanting to learn, wanting to know more as you. And here I am today.

Freddie Kimmel (05:02.254)
Amazing, amazing. I have so many questions. We're gonna go unpack some of that. Yeah, I would join with you. For me, I think my lead -ins to really getting hooked, I think it was even like Tony Robbins and Tim Ferriss in the beginning. Definitely Ben Greenfield was later. Dave at some point came in there. There were so many good people in the early days. And I just remember being, every single morning I woke up, I was like, who am I gonna find today? It was wild. It was wild.

Joel Evan (05:23.489)
You're right, four hour bike. I forgot about that.

Yeah, yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (05:31.564)
when you got started in police work, you said you had lost the draw or the sensation. What brought you in in the beginning that made it like this really strong pull for your soul to want to do police work?

Joel Evan (05:44.449)
I always wanted to do something with my hands and my body. I wanted a job that was the best of both worlds. And police work really can be that because you have to be a tactician. There has to be some mindset. And what I mean by that is you can't just go out and just shoot people. You can't do that. Maybe if you're in the military, it's pretty simple in black and white. But when you're in a police setting, you have to be a tactician. You literally have to be a thinker. And I like that.

I like that idea and I also like the idea of doing something physical in my job, not just being sitting at home in an office. I didn't want to do that. And you know, I'm sure there was also a play. My grandfather in the 1950s and 70s was a San Francisco cop. My father was a cop. I never thought I'd be a cop. I thought I was going to be much better and bigger and badder than them. So I had dreams of being like an FBI agent and I was sitting at my house at 25 years old and my dad was like, I was tired of being at home, Freddie. Okay. was doing these sales jobs.

Freddie Kimmel (06:41.752)
Hahaha!

Joel Evan (06:42.613)
I'm I gotta get out of this house and make money and I'm waiting for the FBI to get back to me and they're not getting back to me it takes a long time and my dad said you know Oakland police is hiring and He's like why don't you just start with them and then if you still want to work for the FBI you can I said that's a great that's a great idea. Yeah That's the smartest thing you've ever said, you know kids always think they're smarter than their dad and that's the smartest thing you ever said

I'm going to do that. And because I figured if I could just get some work experience, then I'm more marketable. I never thought I'd be a police officer long term. I thought that would just be a stepping stone. Truth be told, I worked with a lot of FBI agents while I was in Oakland doing joint operations. And they're a complete joke. Like I once I started meeting these guys, I'm like, I don't want to be. I don't care. can't imagine being one of them. Most of them are nerds. Most people don't understand this. There are a lot of pencil pushers. They do a lot of data and a lot of

work behind the scenes collecting data. So the way I like to explain it is an FBI agent, you have to think about them, most of them. Now this is the majority. There are some really bad ass guys that do SWAT operations and some cool fun stuff. But most of them don't. They sit in an office and they do surveillance or whatever for like 100 days. And that's why the FBI cases stick guys because why do they get 80 % time? Because the FBI watches you for like six months or a year.

And then they go out of the field and actually go get you and do a big bust once a year. So a cop is out every day busting people left and right. They're a lot smaller. So maybe they don't stick as long -term as like an FBI. FBI has been like, we've been watching you for a year. You for sure. There's no, like we got you on camera every fricking day of the year. Right? So those cases stick, but I remember doing operations with like, you

Freddie Kimmel (08:06.214)
Mmm.

Freddie Kimmel (08:14.318)
haha

Joel Evan (08:21.879)
the FBI and the IRS. And these guys were like, they didn't even have their guns loaded. They were like going to the back of the trunk. They're like, all right, we're going to, we're going to load our guns. And then they were giving themselves these mental pep talks. And I just thought it was so hilarious. I'm like, dude, I do this every day. Like my gun is always loaded and I, I mentally ready every fricking day. Cause if I don't like it could be a problem. And I just thought like, wow, what a, what an interesting paradigm. These guys get ready once a year, once a year, twice a year. I'm, I'm ready every day.

Freddie Kimmel (08:47.552)
Yeah, wild, wild. I think about some of the work that you and I both, we know this value to sleep hygiene and nervous system tone and buffering that response between outside world to inside world. I can't imagine, I can't imagine. I even think about this in people that are pulling over people for speeding, walking up to the car with the potential that that person could pull a gun on you or do something terrible.

How did you manage your nervous system in those situations, especially in Oakland?

Joel Evan (09:22.219)
Yeah, I didn't know what I do now too. So it'd be very different game and you know I was in an officer involved shooting my first year and half out as a rookie in oakland and I didn't know what ptsd was or anything. We didn't really talk about it. It's more talked about now but back then Especially in a culture like oakland you were considered a weakling like I mean nobody told me that but like I knew like that was going to be the stigma like you're a weakling and I was in a shooting and just so for people that don't know I didn't shoot in this case, so in some

is it was even more traumatic because then it's like, well, why didn't Joel shoot? I was with my partner. It was a high speed chase, three in the morning. The guy had, we didn't know this, but he had just committed a robbery that went bad and it ended up being a homicide.

And so he was on methamphetamines, heroin, eight ball, he everything on him. Everything on board. Later we found out, really, really bad guy. And we pulled him over because he was just recklessly driving. He was swerving like he seemed like he was a drunk, which he was, he was, he was intoxicated with a cocktail. We didn't know that though. We were just like, my partner and I literally thought, all right, 3 a we get off at 5 a on our Friday night. Let's just get a quick arrest and go home. Like that was our goal.

And that led to be a high speed chase. The guy ended up running from us. He reached his waistband. He came towards me in my direction. My partner took that as a threat and shot him. And I did not because my angle was different and I didn't see what he saw. And so I didn't shoot. then, you know, probably six months later, I'm sorry, for about a six month period, I would walk up to suspects or cars or anybody and I would just, my hand would be shaking uncontrollably. could not write.

Freddie Kimmel (10:58.338)
Mmm.

Joel Evan (10:59.547)
And I would look down at my hand and I would study it. I'm like, it's not doesn't look like it's shaking. So then I would look at them. I'm like, do they know I'm shaking? Nobody knew I was shaking. But like I literally, Freddie could not write and I would then I tried to prove to myself that I was man enough and strong enough. So I'd go out and stop three people like screw stop and one, let me stop three. I'm going to prove to myself that I can get over this. And I would do it. And I would just walk away from stops. Like I would, they would give me the guys would give me their IDs and I'd write. I'd pretend like I was writing it down, but I couldn't.

And then I would just be like, hey, have a nice day. I'll see you later. Like you guys are good. You know, I had no, I, so anyways, we didn't talk about that, but I would say.

At the time, what did really well for me, you mentioned Tony Robbins. So I read Tony Robbins when I was 18, I got into that success growth mindset. used to sell cut -throat knives and I studied all the great people, Zig Ziglar, Brian Tracy, Jim Roem. And so I think I had a good success mindset. I always studied every year. So from 18 and even 25 being a cop, I was always studying the greats and learning from them. And then...

Freddie Kimmel (11:45.378)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Joel Evan (12:00.623)
I always worked out. I always kept myself healthy So I'm sure that always had a good response for my nervous system in general if I knew what I knew now I'd even double down even harder on it, but that's what I would say. I think I always Was an optimist and always saw the glass as half full versus half empty and most cops most first responders are pretty negative because they live negative lives they see the negative in everybody every day and I just never took things too personal so I think for me it was that was one of my biggest things for

The way I act now is the same way I act as a cop and people know it and even guys that pull over, they could never believe it. I mean, I would have guys say to me, I remember when I transferred to San Francisco and I pulled this car over in the Bayview district, which is more, you know, poverty area and more rife with crime than some of the other neighborhoods. And I pulled this guy over and I let him go with a warning. Cause I could care less about traffic stops. I just use that as a modality to look for bigger things, guns, drugs, things like that.

And he was a nice guy. mean, he, you know, he made a traffic violation, but he had nothing else going on in his record. So I let him go. was like, have a great day. And he looks at me he goes, Hey man, where are you from? I go, what do mean? He goes, I never seen you before. And what he was telling me was like, I know everybody cause I get stopped a lot. I know every cop here. I never seen you before, but you clearly are not a rookie and you act, you hold yourself in a way with great poise. And I talked to him like a human being. Like I don't treat him like

Freddie Kimmel (13:16.462)
Hmm.

Joel Evan (13:25.247)
I'm the cop and I'm the law. I never did that with people. It just wasn't my thing. And because I think I had that little bit, I knew where I stood in the world, there was a detachment of ego. I think that helped me long -term, you know.

Freddie Kimmel (13:36.726)
Mm Yeah. What do you think has changed in the last three to four years as far as have things been implemented knowing the tension that exists between the general public and law enforcement? there better, is there therapy? Are there services to people have access to things to help with this again, severe complex PTSD that's just hardwired into the, sounds to me like it's a nature of the career more than anything.

Joel Evan (14:05.196)
Yeah, it is. You're not going to get around it. There's guys out there like me who have left the business. We could always talk about I didn't leave the business. They forced me out over the vaccine mandates, which I chose not to do. That's how I got fired from San Francisco PD because of that. But

That was about three years ago in 2021. There's guys like me that talk about it a lot. There's firefighters like James Gearing out there ringing the bell saying, we got to change the sleep structure. This is ridiculous. Like we see in our profession, suicide is very, very high. And it's because of all these things, the nervous system breakdowns, the lack of attention, the shift work, the relationship breakdowns and families, et cetera, et cetera. it's, and again, you see the worst with

the least. you know, to give some people context, there's a term used out there called condition yellow. Now, a guy invented this color system a long time ago saying military first responders, when you have a sense of awareness, condition white is like, I have zero awareness of what's going on. Like, imagine you're just walking by, bump, you get hit in the head, like you don't have any awareness. Next level up is condition yellow. You have a little bit heightened awareness, you're paying attention to things.

Then you got orange, red would be like you're like super triggered. Maybe you're in a gunfight and black is like you blacked out PTSD. You have no idea what's going on. You've reached your threshold and stress. Well, they say that first responders, police officers, you know, they walk around outside of their life in condition yellow all the time. So they're at a hyper -vision arousal state, right?

And it's such a unique job, I always think about it now, is that you go from maybe a sexual assault where you have to be super empathetic and with the victim, connected with the victim, understanding their pains and problems. And then the next, very next call, you'll be going to a gunshot call. So now you gotta be heightened awareness. It's this ebb and flow and it just takes a toll on the nervous system. So are people doing things? Yes, but at the end of the day...

Joel Evan (15:59.683)
We live in a corrupt world where government and Big Pharma run things and there's a bunch of corrupt programs in my opinion. You see all these nonprofits. Like recently in San Francisco, I saw like the homeless, they don't know where $26 billion went. They just don't know where it went. I mean, come on, man. How does this stuff happen? And so I think there's a lot of good people out there, but they're not getting the attention they should be. And to me, the dishonest people are getting their pockets funded.

and there are these social programs that sound really good like equity and diversity and all these big buzzwords that people use but do they move the needle? In my opinion they don't. They're just very political and they're actually used in a very divisive way I think.

Freddie Kimmel (16:40.992)
Yeah. Yeah, I just, I imagine somebody like you, I'm just like spitballing, like what if you were to walk into a police department and like, okay, guys, we're going to go over Sleep Hygiene Protocol and I'm actually going to bring in the new fit. We're going to do a nervous system reset. And then we're going to do a little pulsed electromagnetic field just to take the tension out of your guy's tissue index. And if that's some type of service, one thing that

Flowpresso does full body lymphatic drainage. know you know the system and I know Desiree. Part of their mission is parking those in firehouses and first responders so they have access because all their research was done on sleep. They showed that one session a week, three weeks in a row, they had a 92 % improvement in sleep quality across the board. And that was based after a large mass shooting in New Zealand, which is very, very rare for that area of the country. Have you ever thought about doing that?

Or do you think anybody would be open to that? I got to imagine they would.

Joel Evan (17:41.579)
Yeah, I think it's becoming more and more open and I think cops and first responders are becoming a little bit more open to it. And there's always going to be people that are like the naysayers and that's fine. I always say like, try it, get results. And if you get results and people are talking about it, it's going to build up buzz. I love the work that Desiree is doing and like, yeah, we should have a flow press on freaking every station in United States. If money could afford it, let's do that. I'll just say that right before I left the department, not left.

was ousted, let's get that clear. Right before I was ousted, I was tapped to every, there was 10 stations within the department. I was actually within the academy. So maybe you call that the 11th station, but there's a, anyways, they had wellness officers for each designated station. And I took over a position there because everyone knew what I was all about. And I was talking to the head person in charge of the wellness overall of San Francisco. And I was like, Hey, listen,

Freddie Kimmel (18:09.816)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (18:19.224)
Mm -hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (18:30.092)
Yeah.

Joel Evan (18:36.491)
I appreciate what you're doing, but this is a joke. I didn't say it like that, but I said, listen, we can do better. Like have you thought, and I had connections in the Bay area with neurofeedback and things like that. go, we need more. And how can I help be the bridge to this? And you know what she told me? She said, by the way, she was smoking and stuff at the time. She goes, Joel, listen, we're doing like these free blood pressure tests and stuff. We can't even get compliance with that.

And so they were doing very basic stuff. I was trying to get like the department to get like aura rings and like do a pilot program to like show where they can track their HRV and improve and do things like that. It was, and then COVID hit and then that made it really hard. You know, it couldn't even, it can't even be around people. then that was, that was a difficult time.

I think again, there's possibility, just to show you the bureaucracy, they can't even get people to do like blood pressure tests or like basic, basic, basic, basic low level things to me that don't even move the needle. Like who cares about blood pressure? I mean, don't get me wrong, I care, but there's so much more as you know, the exposure we have in this world, there's so much more and we could be doing better. Let's do it. I, bureaucracies don't want to innovate really. Right. It moves. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (19:45.772)
I know it moves slower. You know, I am aware that it moves slower and I am aware that that's part of the process. But I would just say maybe the blood pressure wasn't exciting enough to create a thirst within the officer community that guys were actually gonna be delivering a Morosco Forge to the police station. I would...

I can't imagine that wouldn't catch on like wildfire only and because there's all the that masculinity of like, come on bro, how long are you getting in the tub for? And my nervous system, when I get out of the ice bath for three minutes, it's undeniable. It's undeniable. can, I wanna, we gotta find a station that's up for that. My, firehouse down the road, they have a pickle ball court that they set up in between, you know, when the engines are all parked.

They're out, they're playing, you know, they're out and there's, I know there are people that would be open to it.

Joel Evan (20:45.027)
Yeah, it will. just I think people should always understand Pareto's principle or Pareto's principle, which is, you know, that kind of the 80 -20 rule. And you see that across the board in every organization. Like, the reality is there's 20 % of the workers of every organization that are getting you 80 % of the results. And so we see that across the board. We see that in crime.

Freddie Kimmel (21:09.826)
Mm -hmm.

Joel Evan (21:09.863)
We see that in organizations. And so I would tell you that the people you're going to get buy -in from are the true Alpha or the SWAT team kind of members. Those guys are driven and they love to excel and exceed. You're going to see that a lot from them. You'll see that less from just the average run -of -the -mill officer, but you see that in general populations. That's actually pretty normal. So I'd say, yeah, make it available and let's change the paradigm of what health is like. That's it.

Freddie Kimmel (21:33.484)
Yeah. Yeah. If you don't mind, want to, a politically correct, don't pull me off YouTube, I'd love to talk about your departure from the police force. And again, I would just say anybody that listens to the podcast, we have a lot of listeners, a lot of different belief systems across the board. From my understanding, you know, you've, and I've known you before the pandemic, you know, your commitment to

Joel Evan (21:46.765)
Sure.

Freddie Kimmel (22:02.666)
your commitment to physical fitness, to self -improvement, to expanding your knowledge and understanding of the human body and psyche. That's always been there. And you're a wonderfully abled. Like if people don't watch the video, you're a fit dude. What's your Instagram, Joel? Joel, Joel Levin coaching. You know, you're always doing like crazy blurbs jumping over picnic tables. I mean, if I were looking at a

Joel Evan (22:19.213)
Joel Evan coaching. Yep.

Freddie Kimmel (22:31.638)
an asset to the police force, it physically, I would want you in my car. So the idea that you had to leave the police force because of a mandate in the pandemic feels incredibly unfair to me. know life's not fair, but if you couldn't, if you could sum up how things went down and where you're at with that today.

Joel Evan (22:55.105)
Yeah, and I know what it's like having a podcast as well and being censored and being blocked. People don't know about it. You know, we feel it every day. People don't even believe it's happening. It's happening, guys. I've just had my like third video on YouTube removed over the last couple of years with Robert Rowan I did on Ozone. And he was talking about viruses and stuff. So it's happening, unfortunately, and it's really sad because I think information is just information and people should look at it and make their own determination, not misinformation, disinformation, whatever they want to call it.

Freddie Kimmel (23:02.017)
Yeah.

Joel Evan (23:25.055)
Listen, bottom line is this, and it's not about politics. actually, it is about politics, unfortunately. That's why I was, that was why I was let go, because the science, as we know, proves that I'm actually right. And actually the law, what they did was illegal. The law actually doesn't allow this, and they violated the law. And the only reason I know is because I had to study it when I was going through this process. And you know, there's great people out there, the healthy American, Peggy Hall talks a lot about this and about, she talks about it. Just read Title VII.

and you will see that religious exemptions are a thing and they have to be offered. I mean, let me just show you the insanity for people that don't understand San Francisco. There are people in San Francisco Police Department right now that are claiming to be a Norse pagan Viking. And because of their Norse pagan Viking religion, they should be able to have a beard.

Okay, and guess what the department does. It's a title seven issue guys. The department doesn't even blink They know they don't want that to be a lawsuit because it's gonna be a big problem So there is a person at the police department right now who claims to be a norse pagan viking because he wanted a beard and they granted it I have a religious exemption that I put in saying I don't believe putting this product in my body for all several reasons

Freddie Kimmel (24:38.766)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, mm -hmm.

Joel Evan (24:40.611)
And it was accepted a month later or two months later. It was later denied. Okay. And so it was just atrocious what they did to me. And then they fired this and you have a month to get this product where you're, you're fired. And I was just like, dude, I'm not getting this. And if you go back in time, back to July, 2020, believe 2020.

I interviewed Dale Bintry. We talked all about this. And that's why I was so prepared. I knew all about the vaccine industry because I had to study vaccines. Listen, I have vaccines in my body. My parents got them for me when I was a kid. I didn't know any better. I grew up with that paradigm. Like these are a good thing. didn't know. But when I had to have my first child, it was the first time I had to go, man, are these safe? I don't even know. Like, and I started doing my own research, Freddie, and I kept running into pitfalls. I kept running into like, hmm, something isn't making sense here.

Freddie Kimmel (25:20.28)
Mm -hmm.

Joel Evan (25:32.917)
And that bothered me. Now we go back, you can look at some of the stuff Del Bigtree's been screaming about for years. He has a show called The High Wire. And I interviewed him and we talked about it. And the fact of the matter is they ran experiments testing this product on rats and how much everything's and every animal that they tested it on died within three months from all the things we're seeing, failure, all these things. It was never scientifically proven to be safe.

And so I knew this. I knew this coming out of the gate. And they mandated it. And then they mandated it across the board. And the reality is, I'll just tell people, is this creates a lot of emotion for people. I think there's a lot less emotion. At the time I was talking about it, it was very emotional because you're you're Vax or anti -Vax. That means you're a Democrat or you're a Republican. Listen, I don't care about politics. I swear I could care less. I think it's all distraction and noise. And so is the division created between Vax and anti -Vax. I really don't care.

Freddie Kimmel (26:17.514)
yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (26:29.409)
Mm -hmm.

Joel Evan (26:30.977)
Do whatever you want. But for me, if you're just looking at the science, if you look at any science, what I tell people is this, look at every scientific study done on vaccines. And if you can find one for me that shows that there was a double blind placebo randomized control study, then I'll, and that was legit, a safety trial was done, that was legit, then I'll take every fricking product they make. But I have yet to see one.

They don't exist guys, they just don't exist. And realize that you start to ask yourself some questions and that was it for me. So, I'm sorry, so bottom line is Freddie, to give you the button around it is they accepted my religious exemption. A couple months later, they said, you know what? It doesn't matter. Things have changed. By the way, this is after I had worked a year and a half throughout the pandemic.

Freddie Kimmel (26:59.608)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (27:03.81)
beer.

Freddie Kimmel (27:07.394)
Yeah.

Joel Evan (27:24.609)
Never missed like a fricking day, okay? Worked plenty of overtime, did everything they asked me to do. By the way, when the pandemic initially started, do you think they cared about me and my safety? Absolutely not. You know what they did to me? I was working at the academy as a trainer and they sent me down to ground zero.

Freddie Kimmel (27:26.711)
Mm -hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (27:30.243)
Yeah.

Joel Evan (27:44.243)
Union Square, downtown San Francisco. Cause you know what they said? my God, the mayor is worried because there's all these vagrants now out and all the cities closed down. So the only thing we see are vagrants. And this virus spreads via tight populations. So people can't be congregated. So we want the police department to go down to ground zero. We don't care if you get it, but we need you to separate and move the homeless around because it's just not, it doesn't look good. It's bad. It looks bad.

And so nobody cared and I did exactly what they told me to do. I went down, did that for two or three weeks, however long they asked me. I didn't call in sick. I did exactly what they asked. I was healthy for a year and a half and it didn't matter to them. And then they never, and if you look at just the, the last thing I'll say is if you just look at surrounding cities, if this was about science and the spread of some contagion, why didn't we just, why were the other cities allowing their officers to have exemptions?

Clearly there was some political motive and we later found out that they got, think, .8 billion California to force the product. That's evidence now. So anyways.

Freddie Kimmel (28:47.19)
Yeah. Well, I'm watching. just, again, I just think it's interesting. I'm watching this play out in court. It's certainly a lot of my friends who are nurses that were forced to leave their jobs because they didn't, they didn't, they would not comply. Some have won their court cases. You know, they took legal action against the state and they've won quite a few. I don't think I've seen any that have went the other way yet. You may or may not be able to talk about it at this time, but are you involved in a legal court with the state?

Joel Evan (29:15.233)
Yeah. Yep. We have one going. These things take time. Unfortunately, I don't have any. I wish I had, we're seeing a lot of cases in California. They're winning, but just why, why? don't know why mine's taken so long. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (29:20.009)
yeah, I can only imagine.

Freddie Kimmel (29:28.662)
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's just fascinating to me. You I think, again, know, I'm things that we couldn't say two years ago. I just saw Health Canada changed a lot of the warning labels and actually name and call out a lot of the maladies, which would gave me pause to making that decision. That is now public knowledge that for sure you would have been claimed anti whatever. I always ask people at home. I'm like, if you

If you are on board with this therapy, if you believe in it, are you still getting all the recommended boosters? And I think the uptake for boosters is like 20 % of the population at this time. It's very, very low.

Joel Evan (30:08.643)
I it was even less, I thought it was like 3%. I could be wrong. I mean, we're all up there 10th booster, it's not a lot.

Freddie Kimmel (30:13.688)
Hey, hey, hey, hey, yeah, I just wonder, are you an anti -vaxxer if you're not getting all the recommended boosters?

Joel Evan (30:21.19)
according to the Webster's Dictionary,

Freddie Kimmel (30:23.67)
Yeah. Yeah. I just think, yeah, it's really interesting. know, and I wish it wasn't politicized. I wish we could have this conversation and not have people be like, this is terrible. Why are you bringing back this back up? I definitely like you. I have a lot of like probably stored emotion in my body because I was really frustrated. I felt like I couldn't speak my mind or I felt like I wasn't being heard. And that's a terrible thing to be as a human being. And that'll make you sick.

So I know it's important to process and I know it's important to let go. We focus on what we can focus on. So let's move on from that topic. I thank you for sharing. Thank you for first, before we move on, thanks for your role of service and doing all you do, because it was a hairy place to be in. It was a really hard position to be in. And I don't think, I think it'd be hard to imagine a role of service that wasn't under more scrutiny through those two years. So tip of the hat to you.

Joel Evan (31:18.979)
You know what, Freddie, the only thing I'll say with that is it taught me a lot. I think I was meant to do it. Like out of 2000 cops, only 70 of us said we're not going to do this. And I would just say to people too, is that this will happen again at some point, but it'll happen later when we've forgotten about it. And standing up and being courageous. I didn't think I was being courageous. Now I see the importance of doing these, having these moments, but I always tell people,

Yes, I lost a $200 ,000 paying job that I supported my family for. My wife doesn't work. She takes care of the kids. So I lost everything. And losing everything is probably the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. I mean, I'm not trying to, I mean, listen, I lost a lot and it hurts, but it's taught me so much about who I am. It's taught me a lot about surrender. It's taught me a lot about...

Freddie Kimmel (31:57.208)
Mm -hmm.

Joel Evan (32:10.113)
What does it mean to be on this planet? And I would have never got shooken up that way if I didn't do what I did. And most people, they never even go through that their entire, they never get shaken up. Next thing you know, they're on their death bed and like, my God, I have all these regrets. I get to look you in the eyes and everybody else and be like, man, I get to say this one, I don't regret. And I always say I'm being protected and promoted. So.

something is destined for me. And I think for anybody, when you're on the other side, that's a message I'd say for everybody. When you have to go through those dark places, just remember, there's something, you're being guided for a higher purpose that you don't even know. So you're being protected and promoted.

Freddie Kimmel (32:36.078)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (32:46.624)
Yeah, I would agree with you. think that's a universal truth. I just released a podcast on Monday, a Why Stop Saying I'm Sorry. The basic idea being when we say sorry for everything in this reflexive manner, we're trying to say that all the painful experiences can't be medicine. And I think everything is an opportunity for growth.

Joel Evan (32:57.347)
Sorry.

Freddie Kimmel (33:14.094)
let it sit on a long enough timeline, albeit painful. And there's different things to say than that phrase. But, you know, when we're looking at your exit out of the police force and now you're really, you know, you're really like spending 100 % of your time with clients and coaching and what does that look like for you today? What are you focusing on in the world of wellness, human optimization?

Joel Evan (33:36.875)
Yeah, man. So I took that as a sign from God or source, whatever you call it, that Joel, stop playing because I had already started my coaching business on the side. But as you know, when you're doing part of this and part of that, you can only be so successful. So I took that as a sign to go all in for the first time in my business. My wife gave me the blessing to do it. And so I went all in. And like any good entrepreneur starting out, they don't it doesn't go as planned. And I was doing OK in my business, but I wasn't doing spectacular.

Freddie Kimmel (33:40.728)
Mm -hmm.

Joel Evan (34:01.853)
And I started off doing a holistic weight loss and doing a lot of holistic health coaching, which I absolutely love. And after about like a year and a half of doing it, I go, you know, I'm just like breaking even. doesn't, something's wrong. Something is wrong here. And I asked myself, what's the problem? It's clearly the Facebook ads, the Instagram ads, the algorithm change, all these things I was blaming. And I said, you know what? BS, that is not the problem. The problem is you Joel. The problem is you're not aligned with your truth and nothing vibrates faster than the truth.

So why there's a misalignment here. What is it? And I asked myself the question and the truth was I didn't feel Lit up to do holistic weight loss coaching. I love holistic health Weight loss just is not like i'm glad to get people results But I also just don't care about it that much like I love like we're holistic health in just so many other ways, right? And I said, you know what?

I'm done with this. I'm done with this. I'm going to shelve this business. And at the same time, my wife was saying to me, Joel, you need to fix the marriage. Our marriage sucks. The kids hate you. And I'd been married for 10 years at the time. So you think, man, good luck changing that marriage. And it was rough. I, the way I describe my marriage is like one week was good, one week was bad. And I could never figure out why my marriage sucked because the interesting thing is my health was always good. My career was well, I did well with money and I did well with health. But

My kids, they didn't get spanked. They ate organic. They did detox parasite protocols, all these things. And yet we would have these fights where they would yell, scream at me, spit at me. I'd have to leave the house Friday, just walk away, because I didn't know what to do. You see all these books behind me? And I know you interview some of these folks. I was studying Daniel Siegel parenting. I was doing all these things and nothing was working for me, And my wife here now is saying, you know...

even though you're like bankrupt, you need to fix the marriage. And I'm like, you're crazy. Like I've done so much work on myself. Like, why don't you do something? She's like, no, I want you to go work with this men's coach. And I'm like, I'm not going to spend five grand on our life men's coach. When the problem right now in our life is the business is not working. And if I have more money, then I'll be more present with you and the kids. That's the problem. So I should put my money elsewhere. She would not take that as an answer. She was quite pissed and she really made a stand. And it's a key moment because I would tell every woman,

Joel Evan (36:21.349)
To go out and make a stand because like my wife did at the time I didn't like it But it was the best thing for me So begrudgingly I went and hired this men's coach and I figured after a month of dealing with this guy He's gonna tell me Joel you're awesome. You're clearly it's your wife is the problem and we were doing we were doing the intake I remember he goes gonna need you to wake up earlier. I go I wake up at 4 a He goes well shit You have me beat by 15 minutes. He goes I'm gonna need you to read every day. I go I do that already I'm gonna need you to do cold plan. I didn't tell me cold plunges, but I'm like pretty much everything he

told me to do, I'm like, I already do this. Like there are probably two things out of his list of 10 I didn't do. So I'm like, whatever, but I was open -minded. was like, dude, I'm actually motivated. Like I have, I was all in. I was like, I was motivated because he clearly fixed his marriage and I haven't fixed mine. So I went all in after a month of doing work with this guy. And after a month of Freddie, realized one big thing that I am still an asshole and I have a lot of room to grow. And when I realized that was true,

I went all in on my family for the first time I can say ever in my life. A lot of people talk about going all in and I work really hard for my kids. No you don't, you work hard for yourself. And I can say that as a guy who worked hard many years and I just don't have work life balance. You don't want work life balance. Like you like to work and I do too guys. I love to work so it fills me up. But your kids are taking a back seat and so is your wife and your relationship.

Long story short, prioritize my relationship to the fullest. Within three months, my marriage radically transformed. My relationship with my kids radically transformed. And I went all in the process for the last couple of years. And after a year of doing the work, I had a lot of guys reach out to me and say, well, what are you up to? What are you doing? I would tell them. And they're like, shit, my marriage sucks too. I'm like, well, you should do these things. And then I went back and after a year of doing the work, I reverse engineered everything I did because I wanted to know.

Could I help other men do the same thing? Like, was I just lucky or was there a framework? And I came to the conclusion that marriage and fatherhood is a skill, just like anything else. Very rarely do we think of it that way. We wing our relationships most of time. We're like, I hope I found my soulmate.

Freddie Kimmel (38:26.509)
Hmm.

Joel Evan (38:30.243)
That's what we say and when things don't work out, we're just like, she probably wasn't the one. And I thought that too. But that's the reason why divorce is 43 % right now in the United States. And second and third marriages are up to 60 to 73 % of divorce. You know why? Because you never fix the root problem. You always blamed your significant other and you thought, just need to find another, is another person is missing. No, the problem is you and the problem is probably her too. And it's how you're actually interacting. And so,

Long story short, Freddie, is I realized there is a framework and that's what I'm doing now, helping men transform their relationships with their kids and their marriage. And I'm on a mission, man, because that I can, I never had issues with weight loss, but I did have issues in my marriage and I figured it out and I can figure it out. And I figured out the framework that other guys need too and it works.

Freddie Kimmel (39:19.832)
Joel, if you could go a little deeper into the aha moment, you had this moment and said, I'm an asshole. What did it take to peel back that layer for that level of self -awareness where you just were hit in the face with your truth?

Joel Evan (39:35.307)
I remember the first month of just trying to transform the marriage and my wife, even though she knew I was doing this program, I hired this guy, I told her I was doing this stuff, she was not happy. mean, she was not nice to me. Extremely moody, not giving, everything I was doing was just bouncing off of her. And I remember just being like, this is crazy. Like I'm doing what you're asking me and you're not giving me any credit. But I realized that, and every guy will realize this if they do the work, is that she didn't trust me.

She wanted to trust me. She really, really did secretly, but she didn't because I failed her so many times and wasn't consistent in the past. And so I knew that I had to demonstrate leadership. I knew that I had to prove to her that I am worthy of this. And when I went back and kept doing it and kept doing, kept getting feedback, kept getting my ass kicked, kept getting feedback from my coaches, my community, and I kept putting in the work, eventually she softened. And that was the aha moment. Like, okay.

this stuff does work. And I did, I followed the process and there's a process, like I said, there's a process, there's a framework. You have to follow it. And a lot of times I think in the past, I probably just tried something for a week, eh, didn't work. I'd say the other aha was that I was just so all in, Freddie, that I like, so there was no.

I knew I was gonna go all in on this program for a year. I was gonna give it everything I had. And that, because I was just so convinced that was the only option, I didn't give myself a wiggle option of like, hmm, this didn't work out this time. Maybe she's not the right one. Maybe we should get a divorce. None of those thoughts even filtered in my head. And so when I put in the work, and even though it sucked in the beginning, there were a lot of ups and downs, eventually I saw the fruition of the good work. And that was really the aha, like,

Back to going back to fatherhood is a skill, marriage is a skill. that was the aha. This is fixable.

Freddie Kimmel (41:28.258)
Yeah. And has the dynamic with your kids also shifted with this work that you've really leaned into as being a father and being a better partner?

Joel Evan (41:37.889)
Yeah, yeah, even same thing. I'd say like that transformed in like three months. I mean, my kid, you you go back, there were a lot of things interesting to my oldest son would have night terrors in the middle of the night. And again, he never got beaten or anything, but I just think the emotional stress, even if it was nonverbal that my wife and I presented.

And my lack of presence around him, because I was so caught up in everything I was doing, my work, overtime, and then the work that we do, you and I both love to do on the side. I mean, you do it full time. At the time, I was doing on the side as a cop. And so, man, I was just not present. I was lacking presence. And I remember one time I took my kid out on a date, I call it my oldest, we went out on a special date, and I put my phone away and we only had it out to take photos of us. And I remember he came back and told my wife, hey, dad and I are friends again.

And he told my wife, and he just knew because I was so connected to him, Freddie. Like, I didn't do anything special. I just wasn't on my freaking phone other than to take photos of us. And he felt that.

Freddie Kimmel (42:29.624)
Hmm.

Joel Evan (42:45.193)
That was a, I didn't know he said that. She later told me that, yeah, he said that, you guys are friends again. And not that I ever thought that we were not friends. were, you know, he's my son, he's my buddy. There was nothing traumatic happened, is what I'm trying to tell you. There was nothing like, there was no big moment. It was just the little cuts over time. And so night tears, Freddie, went away. The blowouts of spitting and kicking, they all went away. And then of course my relationship with my wife, you know, flourished.

Freddie Kimmel (43:10.678)
Yeah, yeah, I'm reading this book right now, Us, and it's looking at it's a it's it's basically it's how you're viewing. It's how you're viewing the the individual relationship and then the relationship as a collective. And and in general, the book keeps referring back to the idea that that men generally don't think in terms of a collective, there isn't an us dialogue. It's coming at a situation or a problem as an individual.

And they're going to fix it and analyze it and do a Newtonian process of like, I'm going to do this and then this is going to happen. And then this, and that's, that's not the reality. It's really interesting. He also talks about the different ways in which we have these really rare instances where you're, you're sexually abused, not rare, but you know, that trauma, the sexual abuse he said many times can be, can be trumped by years of avoidant behavior from a parent.

It can be like the microaggressions over time that as actually the thing that stands out is the malady in the child's brain. It's been really wild. And so he kind of laughs at everybody when all the, you know, the couple's therapy, the men are like, I don't have any trauma. they're like, tell me more about that. What was your mom like? Was she stern? How did you learn to adapt as a child to that behavior? Did you avoid? Did you lie? Did you try to make her happy?

Joel Evan (44:27.265)
You

Freddie Kimmel (44:37.506)
And you're like, you're seeing how a child starts to adapt a persona to be able to manage. And that's all they're doing. They're just trying to make it work with what they're given.

Joel Evan (44:49.761)
Yeah, yeah kids are there's a phrase I like that I read from a book the other day They're like psychic sponges for our emotions as parents and so it's so true The parents will always come in like I want to fix my kid. He needs help He's got this like fix your freaking self first, bro Okay, you're the problem and listen not that kids don't have some of these issues But I would agree with that statement go fix yourself first and then worry about them

Freddie Kimmel (45:06.722)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (45:15.574)
Yeah, I really think that's where all medicine lies is in the self. did a, I was feeling very frustrated over the last month and I did a frustration meditation. It was beautiful, guided. And it all came back to like, look, this is another human being who wants to be loved. That's all they want. They may be expressing it in an imperfect way. But if you can talk to the part of yourself that's feeling this angst and where is it in your body and

I was like, I felt like 40 % better after like this little 15 minute meditation where I could take, you know, a deeper level of awareness that the situation is, is opposed to creating story. I want to ask you, know, before we go, I know you got a podcast at the top of the hour, just a little bit about, you know, in this world of human optimization, wellness technology, because you have access, what, what is one of your favorite pieces of technology you've ever invested in for yourself for?

It could be sleep, muscle, longevity, energy.

Joel Evan (46:15.639)
Yeah, good question. so for people that don't know, I have a lot of tech. I'm looking at my office right now. I have a Carol bike, I a vibration platform, I have a red light panel.

And over there I've got a cold plunge. I've got a new fit, a newbie, which I know you've interviewed Garrett Salpeter from New Fit in Austin. So I have an electric, that's an electric stim machine. And I have a sauna. I think that's it. I think, I have an amp coil too. So I forgot about that. Well, I've got TMF and sound therapy as well. So I've got a lot.

I would say, and I say this all the time, these gadgets are very cool, but you don't need any of that shit. I've learned that through buying a lot of this crap too. It's fun, it's health optimization and it's really cool. And I'll continue to do it and push the edges because I want to learn more.

Freddie Kimmel (47:07.021)
Mm -hmm.

Joel Evan (47:08.063)
If someone was just like, what's one piece of equipment? I would tell them, a sauna sauna to me. Like the research is so robust. Like you can get the infrared light. You can detox yourself. You can get DNA repair from the fricking heat shock proteins, and you can get a VO two zone two cardio workout by not even running. Like the amount of benefits guys, you can get from that. It's just insane. So

Freddie Kimmel (47:35.566)
It's incredible.

Joel Evan (47:36.771)
Yeah, I have a therassage sauna that I got and it was like at the time I got it at a show so I got like 700 bucks. They go for like a thousand totally worth it. That's the biggest bang buck if you can get anything. One of my favorite pieces of tech though, cause you asked favorite is definitely the new fit. I think now that machine is like 18 ,000. So that's not going to be something that everyone's going to go out and get. But the reason that that I come back to that is

And it becomes more more profound the more I've done. I'm working with a woman in Boise who had a C6, C5 spinal cord injury. They told her, you'll never walk again. Well, she proved them wrong. Within two weeks, she started walking and the Western doc goes, well, good luck to you. Lucky you, guess you got to walk. So when she came to see me, Freddie, she found out about the new fitness. Hey, can it work for me? go, I don't know. I mean, I don't want to make promises, but.

I'm happy to work on you. Let's just see when she came and saw me her hand was spastic Okay, her right hand was spastic and if you watching a video you can see I'm curling my hand like her her right hand would not open it couldn't even open the hand and It just looked was locked. Okay, and then her right gate her right foot was like a drop foot Which is something typical we see like an MS population drop foot. Okay, so

Freddie Kimmel (48:41.037)
Mm -hmm.

Joel Evan (48:56.673)
When she came to see me, that was the issue. Within three treatments, she came back to me and she showed me her hand. She goes, hey, look at my hand. And it's opening. Okay. No problem. And she hands me this book, which was like her journal. And I go like, great. What is this? And she's like, no, like I wrote it. And I'm like, okay. And she's like, no, you don't understand Joel. I wrote with my right hand. I haven't written with my right hand in two years. She had been, she taught herself how to write with her left hand because her left hand worked.

but her right hand, guys, was closed and spastic. So we were able to open up her hand in just three treatments. Recently, I even worked on her with her wrist and I just changed something. Even the wrist was somewhat locked. wouldn't open. Her hands were open, her fingers, but she actually couldn't do this, which is like, if you were doing a forearm curl like you were working out, and unlock that in one treatment. So the right gait is really good and it's getting better. It's just a work in progress.

The reason it works so powerfully is number one, and you touched on it earlier, is the nervous system. The more I come back to this, we're using breath tools, we're using all these tools to balance the nervous system. The nervous system is so fricking key, and we skip it. We skip it in everything we do. No doctors are talking about it. You talk about it all the time, I know. But we skip over that, and what I would tell people is that's priority number one, because you can't do a detox protocol.

If you're nervous system, I can like you have mold. let me give you some binders Freddy. Cause that's what works for mold. We think right.

Even if it did work, it'll never take for you because your nervous system is so hijacked and in fight or flight. The nervous system is so key guys and the new fit, can do a protocol known as a master reset to put people in a parasympathetic state. I love it. I do it every fricking day. Now I have tech. You asked me how I do it as a police officer, but now I have tech that I can just do it every day. So I do that. And the other thing is we're actually changing the input that the brain receives. So we're actually creating like a rewire process. Everything is related to the brain. I've come to realize that over and

Freddie Kimmel (50:53.016)
Hmm.

Joel Evan (50:59.109)
over again, it's all in your freaking mind. And that's why I the new fit is so powerful. Because for her, let's just, I love to use the example of someone with their shoulder. And I've had this happen. Someone comes in, they're like, Joel, I can't get my arm over my shoulder. Like it stops right here.

Like, okay, so there's an injury. So I'll do a scanning process with the new fit and I'll find what we call hotspots. They're essentially governors that the brain has shut off in the body because it's trying to keep you safe. And a lot of times when you get injured or hurt, especially chronic pain, the brain turns off certain governors in the body because it's just trying to protect you. But it stays in this neurofeedback pain loop even after the injury or the traumas occurred. It still thinks it exists. So it's trying to protect you naturally.

So what we do is we send direct current. Your body is electric. Go read Gavin Becker's book, The Body Electric. Your body is electric. It is a DC current. The newbie is a DC current. So when I put the input of the current into those hotspots, I turn them back on and your brain says, wait a second, it is safe. It's safe to do this. Next thing you know, within one treatment, I had this happen, guy's shoulders going right over their head.

It's so, powerful nervous system and then the rewiring of the brain and that's why the results stick with the new fit so much. You could also do workouts with it. You can change the frequency so you can do hypertrophy workouts and different style of workouts that you could just never replicate in real life. Like I can do a protocol 55 pulses per second, 55 pulses per second. I don't even need a fricking weight in my hand and I can build muscle with the new fit. So I can do it for that or I can do it for recovery. It's one of my favorite pieces of tech.

Freddie Kimmel (52:30.23)
Yeah, yeah, it's exploding. There were so many Olympic athletes that Garrett was working with prior to the games. Most NFL teams and not just teams like the best players on the teams. know Odell Beckham. It's really incredible how that technology has been adopted like all over the place. One thing I will say about that tech is you really do know how to use it. You need to do the training. You need to be able to know how to do the new fit and scan properly. It's not just applying.

you know, 55 pulses per second on a bicep, which, you know, you don't want an overly long overly strong bicep. You want it to be strong in relation to the other pulleys around the body. So it's definitely something we want to have training around. But I'm, I'm such a huge fan. I have this protocol where I've been doing, I asked Garrett about it a couple of weeks ago. I was like, you know, bro, I was like, I don't know if you've ever done this, but I put one of the pads on my lower back. I get one of the pads that's the rubber circle with a sponge.

and I do the muscles on my face. At first I was like, I bet if I do DC current on my face, I bet it's an anti -aging, like anti -wrinkle, right? Because your face gets really tight after you do it. But then I get this great neurocognitive benefit. I just do my temples, my face, my jawline on 500 hertz and just like a six to 10. Sometimes it...

Joel Evan (53:45.059)
Why are you running it?

Joel Evan (53:53.279)
Okay, just not that high. Good.

Freddie Kimmel (53:55.008)
No, no, no, no, no, really, really gentle. And then I'll even do some of my scalp. But man, my brain, feels like I had two cups of coffee. Really, really. And he said he's had other people report this too. You know, a couple of things I would say, it's probably affecting the tension of the muscles around the head. And then in turn impacting glymphatic drainage or cellular waste from the brain. That's my one thought. It's got to have an impact there. And then number two, the

Again, where I mentioned me being frustrated. Like where's that going to materialize in the body? Probably the temples, probably the jawline. So physically letting some of that tension go, it's been awesome. So that's kind of been my go -to with a new fit lately. Definitely report back and try it if you happen to hit that. Five minutes, five minutes, six minutes. Really fascinating.

Joel Evan (54:44.183)
I'm gonna try it now, yeah, I haven't done that.

Okay, fantastic. Yeah, I'll use that with the pad you're talking about to just kind of foam roll electric foam roll through sticky spots.

I Garrett will use it as well as what you're talking about all over his body, like coming out of an airplane and a kind of a way to ground his body and like just kind of discharge some of that stuff. So I have never heard though doing on the, just the head. I think I don't see why. I mean, we know that it can increase neurogenesis and we're waking up things. And like you mentioned the jaw, the face, a lot of tension gets held in there. And, you know, someone I had on my podcast recently, she does a lot of quantum healing and says that a lot of the stuff here in the face and the jaw.

relates down to the pelvis, relates down to emotional centers. So when you can clear this, the jaw face, you might even clear other things. So yeah, I think it's great.

Freddie Kimmel (55:31.118)
Hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (55:37.166)
Yeah, 100%. Well, listen, I want let you go to your other interview. We will definitely do it again. Appreciate you being on. Where can people find you online?

Joel Evan (55:45.537)
Yeah, check me out, Joel Evan Coaching on Instagram. I'm active there. You can go to my website. It hasn't been updated in a while. And then if you are interested in building an unshakable marriage, deeper connection with your kids, you can check me out. The website should be live any day now, limitlessfathers .com.

Freddie Kimmel (56:04.046)
Great. I love it, Joel. Thanks for all your transparency and your honesty. Again, thank you for your work and thank you for being a guest on the Beautifully Broken podcast. Big love.

Joel Evan (56:13.207)
Love you brother. Thanks man.