Blood Plasma Exchange for Detox: Dr. Paul Savage on Toxins, Peptides & Longevity

WELCOME TO EPISODE 302

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Freddie Kimmel (00:01.365)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Beautifully Broken Podcast. We have a long anticipated guest. We have Dr. Paul Savage, and we're gonna talk about some amazing new technologies, not really new, but thing something that is sweeping the internet right now on how to support the body's detoxification process. Paul, welcome to the show this morning.

Paul Savage MD (00:24.982)
Thanks, Freddie. I I really do appreciate it. It's exciting to be on your show. I I have to compliment on how well you formulated your perspective on health, even though I share a lot of similarities there.

Freddie Kimmel (00:37.515)
Thank you. It's been a long and winding road as we were we had our little preamble. Our little preamble that I do I do love to have with guests, especially if we've never spoken before. And it is one of the things that I am I am honestly more than anything, I'm I'm committed to that constant evolution. That I don't I'm not sure I'll ever ever settle on anything. You know, there's

Paul Savage MD (00:41.047)
Me too.

Freddie Kimmel (01:01.258)
There's things that I've known for years, and all of a sudden it's like, you know, I just started, I just started adjusting this not eating four hours before bed, three and a half hours before bed, where, you know, people had always said, Well, you need something to carry your blood sugar throughout the night. And I started doing this. And my baseline, HRV, just jumped into the 60s and the 80s constantly, as long as I follow that one little that simple little rule.

And there was a time when I wasn't ready for that. My body, the terrain needed something else, and now I'm in a different season of life. And it's just it's just that one little tweak. It's just adjusting the food window to starting to eat earlier. Everything got better.

Paul Savage MD (01:43.982)
Well, that's because you did the other two tweaks before bed already, which was have a set bedtime and then not be on the internet and have a lot of flashing lights for at least two, three hours before. I mean, you already were doing that, but but you're absolutely correct. You don't want to eat before you go to bed unless there's something else going on and there's patients that I need to have them eat before they go to bed, as you mentioned. But those are the three major factors when people do that and they focus on the other parts of their health, their H you know, the HIV responds relatively quickly.

Freddie Kimmel (02:13.663)
Paul, what got you into medicine?

Paul Savage MD (02:17.351)
Star Trek. I'm not kidding you. I'm I was born in that I was born in I was born in nineteen sixty-two and Star Trek came out in nineteen sixty-seven and the show came on and I was absolutely fascinated by it. And I turned to my dad in I don't know one of the episodes, and when Dr. McCoy came on, the the I was like, that's what I'm gonna be when I grow up, is what I had told my father at that point. He's like

Freddie Kimmel (02:22.037)
Cool. Say more.

Paul Savage MD (02:43.369)
The Vulcan? I said, no, I'm gonna be the doctor on a spaceship. And he goes, Okay, but that is how everything moved forward. By the time I was 14, I was already volunteering on the township ambulance as the gopher. So I would grab the gurney, I would be grabbing a jump box, I'd be the gopher. And I did that until I was about 16, 17, and then life started continuing on from that. So I've always wanted to be a doctor as far as I can remember.

Freddie Kimmel (03:11.803)
Yeah. Yeah. I find it so valuable when when you get to have those opportunities at a different slice of the medical system. Sometimes we're the s very sick patient. Sometimes we're working in we're facilitating care. sometimes it's like it's like the bus boys in a restaurant. You're just running stuff, so you're kind of the in between. And man, I learn a lot in those spaces.

Paul Savage MD (03:38.082)
Yeah. I I do too. Matter fact, I got accepted to the University of Michigan Medical School. I got accepted quite a few different medical schools, but I went to the University of Michigan because it was my home state. and finances were a concern for me because I put myself through college. but during the interview, they're like, What's going to make you a good doctor? I said, because I'm a really good waiter. And they said,

What do you mean? I'm going to be doing this was emergency medicine. I was like, it it's all about the the flow. It's all about knowing where people are in the system. It's it's it's service. It's the service industry. And they're like, okay, you're on.

Freddie Kimmel (04:10.864)
Yeah. Yeah. I waited tables in in New York City in Times Square at a singing restaurant for for I I was a Broadway performer for a while and that was my in-between gig. And if I look back on, you know, there's of course it was so cool to go be in like Phantom of the Opera, but I had just as much fun. I had like these amazing, amazing bonds with everybody who's in the trenches, because you're in a restaurant in Times Square and you're just like

Paul Savage MD (04:16.715)
Nice.

Freddie Kimmel (04:38.833)
Boom, there's you don't stop. I would I would my shirt would be soaked with sweat at the end of the night. You know, you're just crushing it, but you're just figuring it out. Like, wow, look at the flow, look at the energy dynamics in this place. It's unbelievable if you had walked into the back of the house, you know. Not unlike I'm sure an emergency room is, which you have some experience with. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me, Paul, so so obviously you you decided to go into medicine and you held up a picture when we started.

Paul Savage MD (04:53.109)
Yeah.

Paul Savage MD (04:57.419)
A little bit.

Freddie Kimmel (05:08.077)
of this guy who does not look like you, looks really old, does not look like you, literally. And who is that guy? How did you how did you get from there to here?

Paul Savage MD (05:21.133)
So I'll show the picture in just a minute, but I got into medical school, put myself through medical school, working a waiter job at night and going to medical school during the day. and then I got accepted to emergency medicine, which is what I wanted to do. I should mention though

My undergraduate study was in mathematics and biophysics. So I'm a biophysicist before because I'm I like the numbers, I like the data. But I also include patient, you know, the what patients say is as important data as what the numbers say. Matter of fact, in many ways, it's the most important thing. But as I moved into emergency medicine, I was working at the largest trauma center in the world at that point for 10 years, mostly the night shift. And I was pretty much usually the top guy on the host.

system and I went in at five foot nine and 145 pounds and I ended up five foot nine at almost 300 pounds. And in 10 years I but I was never the kid that exercised. I was the brainiac kid. I was never the kid that ate well I could usually eat whatever I wanted and I didn't understand stress at that point because I remember frequently people are like wow

Freddie Kimmel (06:15.255)
Wow.

Paul Savage MD (06:34.059)
That's you got a really big job here. That must be really stressful. I mean, we had gunshots. It was the murder capital of the world. We had gunshots on our doorsteps in the ER. you know, and I was like, nah, it's just my job. Totally compartmentaling all the stress over the side, not realizing that it doesn't matter if you compartmentalize it or not, it's still gonna affect you. But on top of that.

Freddie Kimmel (06:49.238)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Savage MD (06:54.509)
You know, I had all the bad habits. I wasn't eating well, I wasn't exercising, I wasn't sleeping, I was drinking too much, I s I was smoking cigarettes like all the other ER docs when we sat on the back porch. So it was like I I did it to myself, but I kept going to my doctor because I was 35. Every guy in my family dies from cancer or heart disease by 65. By 65.

And I was seeing my doctor and I was and I already had some diagnosed heart issues. and he was like, dude, and I was like, These medicines aren't working. He goes, Well, they would work if you would help support them. I said, by doing what? I said, Why don't you go get healthy? You're one of the most unhealthy people I've ever met. I was like, okay. And I walked out of his office, but I was like, you know, I I don't want he and he would he said the magic words, I don't give you the 65, I give you the 45 before we're doing something to

change this trajectory and I was like, you know he's right. And I wasn't

I wasn't ignorant enough to accept the truth for what he was saying. So I went out and figured out and I walked out, I walked out of his steps and walked out the front door. And then it dawned on me, I have no idea at all how to do that. Do I swim? Do I run? I may be 300 pounds. What do you do at that point? And do I eat vegetarian or do I eat do I mean what do I I I don't don't know. Nobody ever they don't teach you that stuff. I didn't learn it at home. I didn't learn it in medical school. And being a biophysicist, I was like, this is stupid. I need to go figure this out.

And that's how things ended up because within about twelve months, my weight was down, seventy pounds of fat, up thirty pounds of muscle, the lights came back on, my energy came back on, and I was like

Paul Savage MD (08:33.591)
Holy crap, why are why are we doing this for more people? Because I remember sitting in the ER watching 40 year olds, 50 more 50 year olds in sweating, grabbing their chest, going, Why didn't anybody ever mention to him he better get healthy? I was saying that to people. And I was like, you better do it yourself. And so that started my evolution in medicine. And within about a year, I was feeling so good. I went to the director of the emergency room. I said, Bruce, I'm I'm leaving. I'm gonna go open a practice that focuses on men's health. And he goes, That interesting.

I was paying for I said, no, it'll be a cash basis. And he goes, nobody will sign up for that. And six years later, I had 70 centers. So and it was called Body Logic MD. And so it's been a really wonderful journey. I like what you said earlier as well. I like all I like I know I like the stuff that we know that works.

Freddie Kimmel (09:08.266)
Thank you.

Freddie Kimmel (09:13.937)
Wow.

Paul Savage MD (09:22.945)
But I'm not ever saying that it's the absolute truth. You always have to have that little bit of doubt coming into play. But there's certain things that everybody needs to do. And then there's some more modalities after that that you may need to do, that you can do, or you probably need to do. But those things also change with time as well. So I've had a really fun career because not only did I open 70 centers, but I left that company and then I went out and built the software system for the industry to use because the easiest way for me to collect the data so I could prove to traditional medicine.

And what we were doing was to build a software system for all the offices, because we didn't have one. At the time, all these functional medicine doctor offices were using five different softwares: one for billing, one for scheduling, one for getting labs out of the cloud, one for making notes. I mean, it was all, every time you set up, you had to put the patient data in every single one. It was just ridiculous. So I went out and built the system that's the most popular system in the space. And when it got up to about three and a half, four million.

I left that company because by that time this is now entering my third year my third decade of health and wellness.

There was such a calling and such a need for these people like you that were really in a bind and a tight situation that meta and I'm an integrative doc. I'm not against medications. I just want to use them where they're needed at the dose they're needed, but use every other tool I have in my arm, you know, in my armory, including nutrition and exercise and supplements and stem cells and all these different things that we weren't utilizing to be able to get people better. And so I went out and I built 25 clinics that focus on people with the worst.

Of the worst, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, cancer, Alzheimer's, dementia, all these people that were autoimmune diseases, they that traditional medicine just wasn't getting them across the finish line or had given up on them. But being a biophysicist and being in this health and wellness world for 30 years, I had watched the toxin levels in our environment and in my patients increase. I'm not talking about I

Paul Savage MD (11:23.147)
read papers or rope. I mean, I literally had thousands of patients that we were doing toxin tests on over the course of 30 years, relatively much much the same kind of testing, although it has improved. And I'm just seeing it go up and up and up. And by 2022, I realized we lost the toxins had won. And all these people that was treating all these 25 clinics, I just realized

That we'd come to the end of being able to get them better because all the ways that I had to get toxins out of people at that point weren't enough anymore. And we can talk about that. And so I told my partners and told my patients and I retired. And because I was so concerned about the toxin levels in the US, which is incredibly high compared to the rest of the world, I moved my family to Brazil. And that's where I'm at is Brazil.

Freddie Kimmel (12:10.03)
Yeah. Wow, we we could do ten podcasts, Paul, but I'm gonna try to I'm not trying, I'm going to. I'm going to I'm gonna direct this in a way just that intuitively with my body right now. So I I wanna talk a little bit about that statement that you realized we had reached the tipping point in the United States specifically, that's why you moved, of our toxic burden, which which I'm aware of. You know, it's a conversation we have pretty much every day. And

Paul Savage MD (12:14.164)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (12:40.834)
My go-to, I I wanna go through my go-to for people, and that I I will say this the things that I find non-negotiable, I don't like hard words, but that's what I'll say, is that we we need to focus on quality of water. We need to reestablish our relationship with movement, sleep, wake, hygiene. we need to understand that what is on the end of the fork, if we can at the bare

The bare minimum, if you can minimize that toxic uptake, so that that will be the main driver of how we select food. And we need to sweat like we're being chased by the police most days. And the other one that I've found incredible, and this is for me in the last four years, has been lymphatic drainage. Understanding that drainage hierarchy, because there's a lot of

This is where like the marketing gets intertwined with this word detox. And for me, you know, I s I hear it paired with a supplement, with a binder, with a juice cleanse, with you know, and for me it is that drainage hierarchy, like a cell has to release a toxin into the tissue space, then it has to be picked up by the microcapillaries of the lymphatic system. Most of those particles are too large to be absorbed through venous return.

It's got to go through the lymph nodes all the way back into the circulatory system. And then God bless ya, your organs of elimination have to be primed and firing enough to let that something other than yeah, right. You he crossed his fingers, right? Because that's a big if in the United States. If we're going to talk about metabolic health, it has to be re able to remove something other than self out of the body. So th that's that's kind of like my view of like, okay, listen, this is these are the conversation pieces I want you to be aware of.

I want you to clock it where you're at in yourself and build some type of a daily routine, a lifestyle that is every day. We're trying to usher these toxins out of the body. What say you?

Paul Savage MD (14:49.527)
You know, I don't know if you're aware, but a group of toxicologists and myself just published a book in February called Avoiding Toxins, Reducing Your Toxic Exposure. It was written by me, a clinical toxicologist, an environmental toxicologist, a nutritional toxicologist, and a mold toxicologist. We all got together and said, Let's go write a good book for the general prop people to public to read. And the chapters are air, water, food.

beauty products, household household chemicals, ump mold. There's there's eight chapters and it deals with how do you deal with each one of these different forms of exposure instead of getting into each different toxin.

Which 30 years ago, when people came to see me and they just had mercury, I could do this. they came to see me and they just had mold, I could do that. But now everybody has everything. It's just a matter of how much of everything on which ones of the everything they have. So this the it made it actually quite a bit simpler to show people how to protect their self from their environment by minimizing their toxic expo exposure. And we're going to talk about what we've been doing with plasma exchange. But all the patients that we've done plasma exchange on in the last four years have lower levels today of

toxins than they did when they finished their procedure three to four years ago. And all they're doing is the avoidance therapy. We're also looking into all the patients that haven't done TPE on, but we know this works. We know avoidance therapy works. People just need some good piece of advice. And so we wrote a non-fear-based we tell people what we know, we tell people what we don't know, we tell people what we think, we give them tasks, we give them examples. And most of the most every American

Away for free, by the way. We'll make sure that you have a link to the guy from here as well. Part of our mission statement is just to teach people that yes, toxins are everywhere. Yes, you can reduce your exposure. And if you're not yet too toxic, which is that group of people I worked with in the last set that of companies that I built with built, you still can avoid a lot of the complications because.

Freddie Kimmel (16:37.683)
Yes, let's do that. That sounds amazing.

Paul Savage MD (17:00.181)
That's the old bathtub theory. Your body is a bathtub filled with dirty water. You have a drain that's plugged up and a shower spigot that's pouring more dirty water into the tub. First thing you have to do is turn off the spigot.

stop dumping more into the tub. These chemicals don't reproduce. They won't they won't clone themselves. They they won't go up, but you gotta turn that faucet down a lot. Secondarily, there's a lot of things that you as you mentioned you can do. And by the way, your narrative of the detox cycle from cell to is perfect because that's what we deal with when we talk about detoxification. But then you have to learn what can you do to make sure that system's working well for you so you can open up the spigot so that it's draining on that

end and then then that then finally we can talk about plasma exchange or infrared sun and all these different ways of detoxifying and things that don't detoxify like juices.

Freddie Kimmel (17:53.117)
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Just say it for the people in the back. I yeah, and I realize every time I do a show and I start to talk about, you know, the the lifestyle that I have designed is very there's things that I do not have because I've made a choice to prioritize having some of these things like a full body lymphatic drainage suit, a big old infrared sauna, all the things right in the home that I have access to that I don't have to travel to an office. I don't travel to a clinic. It's something I vest invested in.

For myself and both for my immediate community in the area. And I know not everybody has that. So before we get into some of the things that you're working on with plasma exchange, which I I promise we'll spend a majority of time on because I have so many questions from the audience, I want to know what is a good yardstick of truth for my toxic burden. Of course we have symptoms, right? I think that speaks volume. How do you feel? What's your energy like?

There's a great there's a easy questionnaire we can

Paul Savage MD (18:51.317)
That's that's that is the marker right there, Freddie. you know, what we've been doing, I've been doing this for 30 years now, and now with plasma change, we have the ability to actually measure those markers because for the first time ever, we can get down every toxin, not just one. This reduces, and we have papers coming out to show all this. But the one of the markers and the first marker we look at with people is their symptoms.

Freddie Kimmel (18:54.236)
Okay.

Paul Savage MD (19:14.071)
So if you don't have a lot of symptoms of fatigue, if you don't have a lot of symptoms of inflammation, if you don't have a lot, you know, you're probably ca you you're carrying a toxic burden, but it's likely not significantly affecting your biochemistry because that's the body's way of saying, I'm not doing well.

Freddie Kimmel (19:33.186)
Mm-hmm. Do you like a is there a lab that you currently use to look at? I know one thing that I've done in the past multiple times is like a total tox panel from Vibrant Labs. And Okay, well so that's a urinalysis. And I've done it two ways, Paul. I've taken a test and I've just collected my urine. Okay. You know, I I honestly like I do the test and and the doctors have like, Wow, this you're you're

Paul Savage MD (19:45.355)
That's the one of yours.

Freddie Kimmel (20:01.253)
You're kind of a unicorn. We we don't see a lot of stuff. And then I've done it another way where I took a little bit of maybe I did like two shots of glutathione in the morning, two at night. I did an infrared sauna and I did a flopresso, full body lymphatic drainage session. And then I collected. And it's a completely different story. Completely different story. So when I challenged that test, when I did some type of a a push or a chelator or some detox agents and I got that system moving, I had it was like

Red, red, red, red. That was really eye opening to me. How do you guys guide people on how to do those collections or do you just take it without any challenges, out any other lifestyle interventions?

Paul Savage MD (20:41.175)
So as a biophysicist, it doesn't matter, but you gotta do what you do on the front side and the backside. So first off, the symptoms matter a lot. Secondarily, we do do the vibrant America test with the add-on PFAS. It's important that people

Freddie Kimmel (20:46.767)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Savage MD (20:56.811)
Do the total toxic burden, plus there's an add-on for the forever chemicals. You need to do those because by themselves, they are one of what they are one of four categories of what we call high toxicants. Not every toxin is created equal. There's some of them that are much worse than all the other ones. The ones that are much worse are the plastics, the forever chemicals, the mold, and the pesticides slash herbicides. and we can talk about why that is. So the answer to your question is we at MD Lifespan, we don't do a challenge phase before the test because we're not.

doing the challenge phage after they test. If we do a challenge page before the test, we have to do a challenge page after the test. And the purpose here is to see that we have we make sure that we get people on a downward trend, which we do in every case. And then we can get them back in to see their functional medicine doctor who can continue doing other things. Because we can talk about all the different method of detox and what they remove and what they don't remove. Plasma change removes all of them.

And that's for people who get too many toxins. Remember, toxins are everything that hurt the body. They're the anti-vitamin, they're the anti-hormone, they're the anti-transmitter, they're the fire, they're the they're the spike, however you want to call this, they interfere with everything, including your biochemistry by interfering in many different methods, but also because they inhibit or break down the enzyme that's running the running the machine.

bio biochemical enzymatic degradation is what that's called. And when you break down those machines, those machines stop working, those pathways stop working, including your detoxification cycle. So you can have the best genes in the world, but if your enzymes aren't there to do it because they've been inhibited or destroyed, then suddenly these people hockey stick up and that's where you start seeing the sickest of the sick people who are the chronic fatigues and the fibromyalgia and the mast cell activation and the cr chronic inflammatory response systems, the cancers, the the Alzheimer's the neural

degenerative. All of these have the same thing in common, which is chronic inflammation. And chronic inflammation has the same thing in common is the the vast majority of chronic inflammation is toxin mediated.

Freddie Kimmel (23:06.635)
Yeah. Amen. Amen. I do want to say one thing just to bookmark this for people. And as we get into the burden and and the the we'll say this, the thing that is really it's a big flag that could be keeping people really stuck where they don't feel great. I just want to mention that the the what we what what I find very valuable is to liberate yourself from the fear that we live in a world that is not safe.

And however you gotta do that. And so it's so silly. Last night I was I let my puppy out to pee. He's old, 17. I gotta let him out to pee a couple times or he ain't gonna make it through the night. And I'll just do this simple thing where I'm just I'll just say out loud, I'll talk to the dog. I'm like, man, am I grateful for being able to go and swim in Barton Springs today? Man, am I thankful that I ate three males today, no digestive issues whatsoever. And I'll just go and I'll talk. I literally feel this little weight lift of my body.

And maybe it wasn't a great day, but I will find a few things. And I know it's so simple, but I find little, little things like that and where you can let the burden or the mental emotional storytelling that that it's not a safe world is so important for this navigation of our road to health. I just want to throw that out there for people.

Paul Savage MD (24:24.597)
So you know that's exactly what we opened the book with. We got a forewritten by a very well-known clinical toxicologist said, it's about some it's about time somebody wrote a non-fear-based approach to minimizing your exposure in a world that we know is toxic because you don't have to be afraid of it, but when you start taking steps, it works. And it's amazing how well it works. So

100% on that. When you also mentioned earlier sleep, nutrition, movement, sweating, you also have to add in purposefulness, gratitude, and and social and social interaction. Those are known to be the major factors that drive longevity. And I'm gonna add in the one that traditional medicine doesn't talk about enough is detoxification.

Freddie Kimmel (24:55.711)
That's right.

Freddie Kimmel (25:09.117)
Yeah, I love that. My my buddy Dean says that purpose is the wind that fills your sail that will pull you through any challenging situation in life.

Paul Savage MD (25:17.837)
Yeah. The Indi the Indian culture calls it the jump for joy. In other words, it's what gets you out of bed in the morning. And if you have something that gets you out of bed in the morning, you're gonna get a new morning. If you don't have something that gets you out of bed in the morning, you're not getting out of bed.

Freddie Kimmel (25:32.368)
A million percent. Let's talk a little bit about this buzzword that is plasma exchange. And I wanna I wanna preface this. I live in Austin, Texas. Right? So I'm I'm around you know, Joe Rogan lives here. Joe Rogan Podcast, J R E. And so there's a a a new clinic that is very much they are hammering the interweb right now with ads for for plasma exchange. And it's everybody's, you know, doing their media shots are like.

Look at the things I remove from my blood and and that's probably one of the most common questions I get right now is Freddie, do I I need to go do this? and there's just some like there's a lot of nuance in there. This is something you're you you are probably the expert in in the world.

Paul Savage MD (26:16.129)
Yeah. Well the the interesting thing, Freddie, is as I mentioned after we moved to Brazil and I kind of opened up the universe. I said, okay, now what? I don't know. I didn't know what was going to happen next. Within a week or sorry, within three weeks, I got a paper to review on plasma change reversing the biomarkers of aging that was done by Dobie Keproff and the cowboys over at Berkeley. And they show that plasma change in series over a course of five with some immunoglobulins.

markedly improved the biomarkets of age. In other words, your immune system got stronger, your inflammation went down, your oxidation went down, your cancer market was down, the neurodegenerative markers went down, and your telomeres went up. Now it was a limited study of six people, but I was looking at the numbers because their conclusion was we think we removed the excess of biology. And I was like, my biophysics hit in, all the software hit in. I was like, kept looking at this like my brain screaming at me like, my gosh, my gosh, this is how you get toxins out because

Only thing that could move those biomarkers like that is you remove the toxins and I was certain it was all of them because of the way plasmic change works. And I went into the internet. Well, first I sit stood on the balcony for about a half an hour with the paper in my hand until my family came out and said, What's wrong with you? And I turned around and they said I had tears coming down my face and the front of my shirt was stained because I realized at that moment the universe had given me a gift because no one had ever thought about using plasmic change to remove the toxins from the body.

Freddie Kimmel (27:31.557)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Savage MD (27:45.642)
I was the guy who put that together and went to the internet. Nobody had published any studies on it. And that's kind of how MD Lifespan got built because I was like, I can fix this. I know how to do this because I've built Meltic Clinics software. But the goal is always with all of my companies has been to make this affordable to everybody, which which where we're in the process of doing. When we started this up, I called, I'm lucky being in this field for 30 years and knowing traditional doctors and very smart people. I called them all up and we got on a call.

I'm like, you guys, guys and ladies, you got to tell me I'm absolutely insane. Let me lay out my idea. And I laid it out to them. And they're all looking at each other like, my God, that will work. And well, okay, let's go do this. And so we got 50 patients who were healthy, not sick, that they had relatively high levels of toxins as measured by Vibrant America. And we tested a number of different toxin tests before we choose, chose Vibrant. Not that they're better, but they fit our parameters.

Freddie Kimmel (28:32.055)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Savage MD (28:45.191)
A lot of toxins, easy to do at home, relatively low cost for the number of tests we were getting. So they checked a lot of our boxes and and it was the right choice because we've been very happy with the way it matches up on the front side and the back side. But we checked them out. We did validation studies on their testing independently of them to make sure that this is a test because this was really important to all of us. You see me here, but I have 20 medical advisors behind me, scientific and medical advisors, and they are the best of the best. They're chair seats at

Cardiology and neurology and rheumatology and cancer and gynecology and toxicology. I mean, it's just I have this incredibly smart group of people, and we're dedicated because we all know that Stephen Hawking was right in 2016 when he said the only existential threat to mankind is pollution and our stupidity to it. We all know.

Freddie Kimmel (29:35.246)
Mm.

Paul Savage MD (29:36.236)
We've known that for years. But what we also known knew is everything, every traditional method we had of detoxification was failing. Not because it was working differently, just that the number of toxins and the type of toxins were growing. So 30 years ago, we didn't have a lot of plastics in PFAS.

Those are examples of chemicals that your body can't get rid of. No matter how I mean it it doesn't come out with PFA plastics come out with some binders, but really not to a significant amount.

And so we were all sitting here going, we're in trouble. We all see this increase in cancer in the 50 year olds, the increase in autism in the kids, this increase in Alzheimer's, all these autoimmune diseases which outpace every other non-industrialized country in the world. And we all know that the the common threat in all of that is the inflammation caused by the toxins. And we all got excited because like, hey, let's go see if we can make this work.

But what we did, so we studied TPE, we studied how it affected the chronic toxins in people, because people typically do TPE five times in a week or six times in two weeks. That's the traditional way of treating immune complex and autoantibody diseases and neurological disease. But nobody ever asked the question, but if your if your goal is to get rid of the toxins, how frequency?

How frequent do you do it? The answer to that is a month apart. Because just as you said, they're in the cells. And you have to give these toxins time to migrate back into the plasma. If you're optimizing the plasma exchange, which is a very expensive procedure, do it when you're going to get the biggest bang for your buck. And it's a month. So we figured that out. Then we started figuring out, let's write this book on avoidance to show people how to turn off the spigot. Now we can.

Paul Savage MD (31:19.071)
change the water out so you can make new fresh water and then we started adding in which nutrients and what other things do we need to add to get the drain open. And that's what makes MD lifespan different than everybody else out there is we started this, we're the most advanced in this.

Our protocols work much better than everybody just doing TPE. And I love it when they when Joe goes, look at my TPE, I got two bags of toxins. Hate to tell you, Joe, that really didn't reduce your toxic load a lot because one trip doesn't move the needle very far. But coming back to your question about who needs TPE, not a lot, it's not that many people. Now anybody can do it if they want, but who needs to do it if you're sick.

Freddie Kimmel (32:07.028)
Yeah. Tell me walk me through the process of what total plasma exchange is. Like what is that what does that look like? What's happening with that system? What does the kit look like? How do we hook up the body?

Paul Savage MD (32:20.033)
So think about plasma donation because it's very similar to that process. So you're going into a you're going into a setting where they have a machine and they're going to put an IV in you in one arm and another IV in another arm. Now, the machine is going to start pulling the blood out of the one IV into the machine. On the way into the machine, we add into it citrate.

Freddie Kimmel (32:24.148)
Okay.

Paul Savage MD (32:43.447)
which is a natural chemical the body produces that binds up calcium. The reason we do this is when calcium is bound up, the clotting system doesn't work. So now it can pass through all the tubes of the machine without getting clotted. Once it's in the machine,

The machine puts it in a centrifuge, spins it really fast, and that separates out the liquid from all the cells. The red cells, the white cells, the platelets, the stem cells, they all go one distance. And everything else that's in the plasma, and especially everything that's being contained by the proteins in the plasma, go into a different area. So then we drain off the liquid, and that's called that's your plasma.

And as I said, plasma, think of it as a conduit. It's the super highway flow of your body. It carries everything, good, bad, and ugly. Nutrients, hormones, medicines, immune system, toxins, cytokines, oxidative stress, cancer, everything flows in the plasma. So when you throw the plasma away and then you take the cells,

And you want to return those to the body, you put it in with 5% human donor albumin. We can talk about that. And that's reinfused back into the body. And within about two weeks, your body regenerates new plasma. I mean, within days, your plasma is coming back. And within two weeks, it's pretty well back to where it was in the first place. I mean, but it's free of toxins because you don't repr those don't reproduce and you don't make them if you've not put them in.

Freddie Kimmel (34:12.551)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Savage MD (34:19.147)
That's a plasma change. She takes about two hours.

Freddie Kimmel (34:22.851)
And how is that different if I go donate plasma at We Are Blood in Austin, Texas?

Paul Savage MD (34:28.759)
Sure. So we've looked at that. We looked at our protocols versus what if you go donate plasma twice a month for 18 months? You're gonna get clo you can you can hack it. You can hack it by twice a month for 18 months. Going going and don't and you can donate blood twice a week, but we tell people since it's a much smaller volume of plasma than taken out, it's only 500 compared to three liters that we do every exchange.

Freddie Kimmel (34:36.953)
Yeah. The po in my head I was like, I can hack this.

Paul Savage MD (34:58.727)
you have to do it more frequently and it takes more time. It's all math and it's all math about volume of distributions. But the fact is twice a week is what we saw to be the best cycle. But here's the problem with a lot of that, Freddie. Do you have time to do four hours every other week for 18 months?

Freddie Kimmel (35:15.643)
Well or or do your veins hold up to those what, sixteen, eighteen gauge needles? I mean it's that's

Paul Savage MD (35:20.095)
They they they you know, when you're doing plasma donation, it we can get away with a usually we can get away with an eighteen

on most patients. And some patients can't do plasma donation. They're too old, they're too thin, they're too sick. so it's really more of a biohack. But we when we looked at we had a bunch of our staff, okay, you guys go do we're gonna pay you, go do plasma donations twice a month for 18 months and we're gonna collect the data and all that stuff. and then compare and it pretty much compares to what we're getting when we do a series of five, which we do within five months. but here's that point again if you're sick, you don't have 18 months.

Freddie Kimmel (35:59.043)
You don't have eighteen.

Paul Savage MD (36:00.641)
Yeah. And if you're coming into Alzheimer's, you're coming into a an issue, you already got cancer markers, but we don't see the cells yet. I mean, you're on the doorstep of it's the next thing. You don't have time to do 18 months of plasma donations. But the answer to your question is you can approximate that with a year and a half of bi-monthly plasma donations. And by the way, I think I I I I I we don't know.

Freddie Kimmel (36:16.899)
Ye yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (36:24.301)
That's h hundreds of hundreds of visits.

Paul Savage MD (36:28.907)
what that rate is if you donate it once every three months. But I suspect if you do the avoidance therapy and you donate blood every three to four months, within a couple of years your toxin levels are going to keep dropping and dropping. Cause

Turning the spigot off, folks. Listen to me, turning the spigot off is one thing everybody can do. And we wrote a book that's cost effective for no matter which kind of category you in. We have water filters at two hundred dollars. We and these are all verified by our environmental toxicologists as functional.

Freddie Kimmel (36:59.947)
Yeah. And I I also want to say in Austin they they pay you for your for your plasma. You it's like n it's like a Yeah. That's right.

Paul Savage MD (37:04.577)
That's right. That's right. So you can use all that money to to buy some buy a air filter and buy a water filter and buy an air monitor and buy a dehumidifier and buy some glass for God's sakes to get rid of the plastic. Yeah. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (37:17.761)
I listen, I love that. Because I you know, I go back to this I go back to this stat of right now in the US. No, you're not here. but most people don't have a thousand dollars on their credit card. They don't have a room in the United States. The majority of the population do not have that excess money. So I am I am always looking, well, how much money do I save from not eating for five days? I save a lot just drinking water. What is the the value of a fast? We've got all these different ways where we can

Paul Savage MD (37:32.727)
That's bad.

Freddie Kimmel (37:47.831)
We got some big needle movers that are definitely it's a sacrifice. You know, it is hard. We just talked about the time. You know, we could do the math on that. Maybe we'll throw it up on the podcast for fun. The hours. What we what are you paying yourself per hour to go do, you know, a hundred and fifty plasma donations? It's it's a big chunk of time. So but I really appreciate that you you did that data and it's really interesting.

Paul Savage MD (38:10.481)
It's not 150, it's not 150 plasma donations. It's about 60 plasma donations. Once twice a month for 18 months.

Freddie Kimmel (38:15.284)
Okay. Perfect, perfect, perfect. Perfect. Twice a month. Got it. Amazing.

Paul Savage MD (38:21.581)
So I guess that's that's that's seventy two that's seventy two toll, I

Freddie Kimmel (38:24.683)
Seventy two. All right. Still a chunk of time. Still a chunk of time. So what

Paul Savage MD (38:28.173)
Well that's the th that's the thing is it's still four hours. We do four hours and you're and once once a month for five months, or you can go do four hours twice a week for eighteen months.

Freddie Kimmel (38:39.551)
Yeah, it's interesting. What are the risks associated with plasma exchange? There's definitely I've talked to people that said, you know, I'm worried about the changing the quality of the membrane of the cells, stripping the body of vital nutrients and minerals to talk to us.

Paul Savage MD (38:57.137)
So so let's be real clear. A lot of these comments about depleting the body of all these good things is because they're talking about plasma change done the old way of five times in a week or six times in two weeks.

We're talking about doing it once a month. In fact, we see elevation of antibodies, elevation of immune systems, elevations of nutrient nutrients because we've given the body plenty of time in between. And with our program, we supplement people with us a proprietary supplement that we had our whole team makeup, which has a lot of anti-inflammatory antioxidants, detoxification, mitochondrial support, and energizing, because this is what the body needs to kick start as well. So our program is a lot different because we're doing

testing on the front side, we do testing on the back side, we map out the plasma changes for you. We're doing IV nutrients, oral nutrients, and in some of the cases when we start specifically aiming this, what we call our backbone protocol at heart disease or Alzheimer's or mold, we're adding in things that really it really address those things much more specific, which is why it's not hard to realize that this makes a lot more sense than just doing TPE because it's a integrative approach, attacking the shower, bathtub, drain, all at the same time

Moment. It's not inexpensive, but we're dedicated MD lifespan to keep the cost coming down. just so your listeners know, the cost on TPE across the country is between 5,000 and 10,000 for one TPE. If you have symptoms, you're going to need at least three. Probably five. Maybe eight. But we've not had to do anybody over eight, nor have we had to ever do anybody ever again.

over these four year periods because everybody keeps getting better after we're done. So this I want to dispel the how often do I have to do it after you you don't. We haven't had anybody come back yet. Now given more time with more toxins and maybe a lapse in avoid we they might have to do it again. But we also so if you're looking at you know the prices between five and ten thousand we charge six thousand.

Paul Savage MD (41:02.487)
But this is all we do day in and day out. This is our only function. That's all our nurses do day in and day out. We are experts in that. Our nurses are the best trained. We haven't missed, we've only missed one procedure because of not getting an IV out of the last four years of doing patients. And we do about a hundred of these a month. That's how quality my nurses are. And you have a medical team that's watching over you as well.

Freddie Kimmel (41:21.661)
Mm.

Paul Savage MD (41:28.461)
With the labs included and the doctor visits, and yet we're still coming in about the same price everybody else charges just for TPE.

Freddie Kimmel (41:38.267)
Yeah. And when you say your clinic and your team, is that in is that overseas or is that in the US?

Paul Savage MD (41:44.546)
No, it's in the US. We have 12 locations now and Austin is coming up very quickly. So we're in we're we're in Dallas and Houston, Tampa, Orlando, Sarasota, Miami, just outside New York, Chicago, Denver. I think I'm forgetting one, but you can go to our website because we're adding about one or two clinics per month right now.

Freddie Kimmel (41:49.721)
Exciting.

Freddie Kimmel (42:06.575)
Incredible. And is the c the clinics are really just focused on this? We're deburdening the body from toxins using TPE.

Paul Savage MD (42:13.367)
Correct. We all the all of our physicians are boarded and state licensed in every state. So we do virtual meetings with these patients to you know, any person that wants it we we like the toxin test too with the PFSA. You can come to our website and buy one because the only two things I say everybody needs to do is you need to learn how to avoid toxins and you need to know what your toxic load is. You don't know what you don't know. But then we see the patients virtually, but we send them to the office once a month.

Freddie Kimmel (42:35.591)
Yeah.

Paul Savage MD (42:43.083)
to get their plasma change done, possibly IV nutrients, possibly immunoglobulins, possibly other regenerative therapies at that point. But then for the next month in between, we have a program that they follow, but they always have the doctor watching over them from the beginning to the end.

Freddie Kimmel (43:01.273)
And Paul, can you is is it viable or is it legal? just from a patient data standpoint, do you collect data on everybody? So you are running kind of like a mini white paper case study as you start to collect, you know, people from all over the US doing this?

Paul Savage MD (43:17.825)
Yes. So we've already published one paper about our protocol on the effects on environmental toxins. We have now in final review for our protocol on the forever chemicals. And we have the three more coming down the road with mycotoxins, heavy metals, and plastics, all of which we've been able to show. So yes, you can collect observational data on patients because you need to make determinations. You can report on that as an observational study. That's called the Helsinki Clause, because as long as this, you know, people all the time say,

You hear this rightfully say that, well, they're doing the process, they're ordering the test, and they're writing the paper, which is a real it's a bias. It's it's a real bias, it's called a bias, bias factor. So just to be clear here, we take all our de-identified data and our protocols and we give it to we give it to an independent data collection system, and they analyze the data and they write the paper, and they come to the conclusion, I just sign off on it.

So it is observational data as put together by a very well-known company called MB Clinical. And this is what they do for a living is take data and publish papers on it. So that way I know they're like, okay, these are the deviation, these are the things that we found in our research on this over the time. And this is what we're seeing with these research. And this is the p-values. And so we're because we need we need to get the medical community to understand that we've discovered a way to

take care of a lot of people where the underlying problem is cancer or heart disease or neurodegenerative disease or all these autoimmune, chronic fatigue, mast cell activations, long COVID, because a lot of that has to do with the toxic burden that people are carrying.

Freddie Kimmel (45:07.67)
Yeah. Yeah, which for me it's just it's very it's it's a system that is an inherently it's a self regulating system that has an intelligence and I always think about that the burden of of chronic Lyme disease or mercury or mycotoxins or VOC reactivity is noise. You know, I always think about it as the noise and I remember doing goodness, yeah.

You know, I was probably doing my poor man's poor man's like fifteen years ago. It's just like, I'm just gonna give blood once a month. You know, I'm gonna do some type of deburdening to my body or an extended fast. And but I would always feel, my goodness, after a five day fast, I remember the first time I did one, I was like, I feel so clear. Like it was incredible. And and I was like, Yeah, you go.

Paul Savage MD (45:53.214)
Yeah. There is there is there is a there's a lot about the metabolic access. I just want to mention to you also that the body doesn't see environmental toxins different from allergies, different from pathogens, different it's all a toxin. So when you talk about toxic burden, you need to talk about the environmental toxic burden, mean the chemicals that we put in the system or all these toxins because the immune system doesn't differentiate that it's alive or dead.

Freddie Kimmel (46:06.944)
That's right. Thank you.

Paul Savage MD (46:22.241)
That you put it in or something put it in. All it knows is it's there and it does and it wants to get it out. But the issue is a lot of these environmental toxins and some pathogens suppress the immune system. Another issue with the toxins is they're oxidative. So we hear a lot about chronic inflammation, but our group always talks about oxidation. That's the real killer because he inflammation is the heat that your body makes when it's trying to respond to a danger.

Oxidation is the fire that's going on in your cells that are catching them on fire, breaking your DNA, breaking down the enzymes, because that's what oxidation is. And a vast majority of the toxins, especially what we call the hytoxicants, the plastics, the PFAs, the pesticides, and the mycotoxins, they're all oxidative, which means they're carcinogens, which means they and so you're correct, you made another comment about damaging to the cell lining.

When you take toxins out of the plasma and the toxins are migrating from intracellular to the extracellular space, infra intracellular space to the intravascular space, the lymphatic space, and through the lymphatic space back to the vessels, because you're right, it goes through the lymph through. Every time it crosses a border, those oxidative markers are going to burn whatever it touches. And so that's why we have this.

supplement that is just and and these things that we do for people to make sure that we're making sure they have as much deoxid antioxidants as needed because that minimizes that damage.

Freddie Kimmel (47:55.485)
Yeah. Someone at some point in the last three hundred episodes had said this analogy, which I very much I liked the analogy. I because you're a biophysicist, you'll be able to validate this for me. The the idea that that the environmentals, whatever they would be, whether it's mercury or it's a forever chemical, that the body in its attempt to utilize everything is trying to use it like a junk car park.

The idea that mercury would take up a receptor site that normally maybe magnesium would bind to. Is that is that valid? Is the body trying to use these things in some way? No.

Paul Savage MD (48:34.155)
No, I mean maybe in some cases it may be confusing one thing with another. Like for example, you know, mold, many of the molds look like estrogen, which is why there's an increase in binding protein and people have a lot of mold toxicities. But the body isn't trying to use them, it's just they're getting in the way of what the body really wants in that slot. So I don't, I I I absolutely don't concur with that.

Freddie Kimmel (49:00.659)
I love it.

Paul Savage MD (49:01.717)
Yeah, I'm I'm absolutely right. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me. But there I mean, if the body can use something, it will use something. There's no question about it. It will break it down and rebuild it into the form it wants. And the problem with these chemicals, at least the vast majority of them, is it doesn't break down to a usable product, nor is it a product that can be usable in the form of that. It's just it's just deadly. So what the body does is hide it in cells or wrap it in proteins.

Freddie Kimmel (49:04.82)
I love it, but it is

Freddie Kimmel (49:25.032)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Savage MD (49:30.273)
That's the two way if it gets rid of it if it can get rid of it. Otherwise, if it can't get rid of it, it's in the plasma. It's wrapping it in proteins like albumin, like sex hormobinding globulin, like fibroglobulin. It's just wrapping them up so that's insulates that chemical away from

everything else it touches or it tries to throw it into cells. Fat cells are a common analogy here because and that's why people get obese and that's why they can't lose weight 'cause of the body's like, I'm not opening up that cell to let that toxin out. Tough luck.

until you start getting your detox pathways in play and you can start getting that down. We've had some really experien interesting experience, as I mentioned, nobody's ever used TPE to remove toxins. And on a couple of the patients early on, everybody's toxin levels go down. On a couple of patients, they doubled. And we're like, what happened here? And we're talking to them because we're always, let us know what you're doing. Let make sure we understand what you're doing. Both of these patients had actually started a GLP one and l had lost 50 pounds in 90 days.

Freddie Kimmel (50:30.489)
Mm.

Paul Savage MD (50:30.549)
And didn't tell us they were on it, nor did they tell us they they were just kept, I'm not feeling as good, I'm not feeling and we're trying to get it figured out. And then we found out. Now these patients did real well because we made sure they were able to get more TPE and then and the and without losing that weight that much fast. and they they they both done very, very well. so it it is about knowing what to do when and how, which is why not everybody needs TP. Matter of fact, the majority of people don't.

People do need to read how to avoid toxins. People do, if they can, need to be able to sweat, whether it's in a sauna or an infrared sauna or just exercising. People do need to hydrate well so that you have enough of this to push things out because when it's too concentrated, it's problem. People do need to do measure their toxin levels and then follow them to make sure that what they're doing is working. These are things that everybody can do and it's not a bank buster.

Freddie Kimmel (51:26.901)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Amen. Amen. What are some of the what are some of the ways? I'm I'm sure it is symptoms. I'm sure it's performance. What are some of the ways you are measuring this yardstick, your yardstick of truth, the success of some of some of these? Like, is there a you know, it's like you I I hate to go it's very markety, but people like reduce your mercury by thirty two percent or you know, what is the data you guys are collecting on these patients that are going through the clinics?

Paul Savage MD (51:38.701)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah, I can.

Paul Savage MD (51:56.504)
Sure. So the question that we asked ourselves, Freddie, was besides getting the toxin levels down, which systems are most are easiest for us to detect that the toxins are likely having a negative effect? So we know you have to do plasmic change. And at the end of it, which systems of biomarkers are the ones that show us that we've done enough plasmic change?

To that end, with the first 50 people, we did thousands of biomarkers on people and measured them between TPEs, before, after, split samples on the front side. We just built this whole thing and we just funded it because all of us were like, we got to get these answers. And the answer to your question after we checked thousands of different biomarkers. So this is where the symptoms come in, the toxin markers come in, and then you want to know the immune system along with inflammation, oxidation, and you want to know neurocognitive function.

The brain and the immune system are the best ones to determine if if you need TPE and whether you've had enough TPE. It's not the toxin levels, because if you got really good DNA, you can walk around with a lot of toxin levels. If you got really crappy DNA, you can't walk around with a lot.

Freddie Kimmel (52:52.068)
Mm.

Freddie Kimmel (53:01.812)
Mm.

Paul Savage MD (53:11.863)
But if it's starting to affect your immune system by suppression and confusion and inflammation and oxidation, or it's starting to drop your neurocognitive scores. And by the way, most people, we have a lot of people coming in for just longevity, you know, just doing the TP. When we check their neurocognitive functions, they're pretty much average. By the time they leave after three or five sessions, they're above average.

And they notice a difference, but they come in saying, No, I feel just fine. I'm sharp. I'm clear of thought. By the time we're done, they're like, I can't believe how I mean we have a very well-known A-lister who's coming out very soon because she just finished up and she was like, I thought it was good. I mean, she's 70-ish. And she goes, I thought it was good. I thought it was sharp. She goes, I'm so much sharper now. She goes, I didn't and so there's this whole thing that you know you rather positive. So that's one of the things that really concerns us quite a bit is

Everybody's not scoring great on that neurocognitive scale.

Freddie Kimmel (54:06.944)
Yeah. Well you're I'm in my body every day. You know, I'm a very, very poor judge of my both both my my day-to-day presentations and like my improvement. That's always been the tough thing for me is, you know, talking to a lot of people in the chronic illness camp, it's so easy to become hyperfixated on that limbic looping system in which you just drill down on what is not there.

You you and you become you it really becomes this like your new norm, your baseline is to live in this like mental deficiency. And it's tough. Once you break out of that, you know, you start to see little glimmers of light everywhere. And that's, you know, that's why I'm such a huge fan of the limbic system retraining and just or gratitude journaling or whatever you want to call it, right?

Paul Savage MD (54:52.845)
It's it's all very important. The the one thing I'll say in closing here is the five tenets of health, which encompass all the things we talk about, the things you normally need to do with nutrition, exercise, stress management, sleep, and detoxification. In the fast 30 years, detoxification has overwhelmed the other four. And in many cases, the other four don't work well until you get detoxified.

Because it breaks down everything and the things that should be working the right way don't. And when you start treating them.

they don't work as well either because those systems that you're using to treat are broken too. And the more broken it get, the sicker people get. And those are the people that we really focused MD lifespan on. We have a whole branch with longevity that for the people coming in with biomarkers, but that pales into comparison with the people we're doing with cognitive issues and Alzheimer's and mold toxicities and fibromyalgia. So we know so we decided to attack the toxins where it's attacking us.

The greatest.

Freddie Kimmel (55:57.448)
Yeah. Beautiful. Well, I'm really excited. I've I I've done one T PE in Austin and we literally we had a whatever the whatever the reason was, it was a failed experiment because the machine kept stopping and clotting and it was just brutal. We had to restick a couple of times. We just were not getting that flow. This is probably three years ago.

Paul Savage MD (56:16.717)
Well, I'm g but but Freddie, that's all about the nurse. So that's what I said. I mean our nurses are incredibly well trained. They're they're certified and they freeze us. They're

Freddie Kimmel (56:20.315)
That's right. Yeah.

Paul Savage MD (56:28.301)
come from the ICU or the ER, they all have five years of ultrasound guided IV insertion. We've only missed one patient in the hundreds we've done every, you we a hundred a month for God knows how many months. the nurse, this is what they do day in and day out. That's why I tell people all the time, if you're going to a clinic with TPE and this isn't something they do regularly, it's not a it's a complex procedure. Having someone who does it regularly, I got this because it's just we make it look easy in many different cases.

Freddie Kimmel (56:56.691)
Yeah. When are you guys coming to Austin?

Paul Savage MD (57:00.438)
Soon.

Freddie Kimmel (57:01.384)
Yeah.

Paul Savage MD (57:02.229)
Yeah, we're we're in the final discussions with because we like to put our locations in with a doctor that matches our mindset. Because again, all these people coming in, most of them don't have doctors that are integrative and they where do I go next? Here you go. You know, or or we we we match up patients with doctors in the area that have specialties. So we we work a lot with the providers in the area because we're not going to do long-term care. But if you're a provider and you want the service, you want us to do it for you so we can get your patient clean and send it back.

to you that's how this system works the best better than 50% of our patients come to see us are referred by their provider.

Freddie Kimmel (57:39.427)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's needed. It's needed. It's so exciting that this is coming to a larger scale, specifically in the US, because we here's a figure. We say it on every show. We spend the most money, we are the sickest. That's that's that's how we're doing it in the US of A right now. my question for you is this is a this is obviously this is a cash pay service. Do do you think there's a day?

when this moves into a we understand the need and the importance and insurance starts to kick a little back.

Paul Savage MD (58:14.401)
That is exactly the mission of MD lifespan. That is it. I've been able to build companies that successfully drive down the cost of getting these done because it basically our our concept is what do we do in addition to TP that makes TP work better so we can do fewer, which brings the cost down.

We've been able to drop our price 15% in the last two years. Everybody else is going up, we're going down. We're at a we're in the race for the bottom. We're doing quantity of people instead of making a lot on every individual. So we do over a hundred TPs a month and we're just break even now. That's how much people are getting in value.

Freddie Kimmel (58:34.831)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (58:41.061)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (58:46.414)
Mm.

Paul Savage MD (58:49.483)
from us rather than another location, you know, somebody else who's doing just TPE. But we have continued to every I made the company a public benefit corporation, which means we have to hold the mission statement in alignment with the financials. So this will never be a multi-billion dollar company because every time we can we can we're going to drop the price to the clients and keep driving this down. We will drive this down far enough that the insurance will look at it in certain selected cases.

The biggest one probably on the horizon would be L-Timers. Because the Ambar study done in 2020, which showed significant results. We're seeing better results with what we're doing, because we're not just doing TPE.

We're doing peptides, we're doing nutrients, we're doing immunoglobins, we're teaching people how to avoid toxins, we're matching up with a neurofunctional doctor on the backside. And our patients have continued to get better because if you're one of those patients who went to the doctor and he said, I've had memory problems for a couple years, and he diagnosed you with early Alzheimer's, here are your pill. I'll see you in a year. And you want to know, can I do something else? The answer is absolutely you can.

Freddie Kimmel (59:56.705)
Yeah. Paul, how how often do you do T PE if you still do it at all?

Paul Savage MD (01:00:03.123)
I did I was patient number one. Okay. So I was like, out of that 50%, I like, let's go with me. Because I still had a lot of toxins for my heart disease. And over 30 years I was only get it, I was only getting down by 50%. I thought that was a win because then that's a win because all the other ones were difficult to get removed. And I was doing avoidance therapy, I was doing chation binders.

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:08.205)
Ha ha ha.

Paul Savage MD (01:00:25.495)
But I got it down to 20 and I couldn't get them down any further. I was patient number one. I did a series of five. My number of toxins in the above suboptimum range were 18. By the time we were done, we were I was six. The next year I was four. The next year I was two. This year for the first time, I probably beat you because I didn't have any register above the suboptimum range. And all I've done for the last three years is avoidance therapy. Now everybody's like, you moved to Brazil.

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:50.434)
Brilliant.

Paul Savage MD (01:00:52.293)
All the patients that we've done, their toxin levels have continued to drop year after year if they're doing the avoidance therapy. So the answer is how many have I done? The original five. And that was four years ago.

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:03.383)
Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, Paul, I'd love to have you on again. This was so educational. I'm so excited to put it out. Really and truly. There's so much noise around this topic and this feels

Paul Savage MD (01:01:08.673)
That'd be great. Well, it's enjoyable. Thank you.

Paul Savage MD (01:01:15.455)
If anybody in your audience is a philanthropic person who wants to help us fund a IRB controlled study, contact me. we have a number of different leads out there, but you know, we have to get these studies, IRB controlled studies. We got the observational data, we're publishing that, but we have to do the IRB because that's one of the that's one of the

Blockers to getting it into the insurance model is you have to have the IRB controlled study because if you can show that the cost of this protocol is less than the cost that the insurance will pay out on this disease state over a period of time that they have, you know, there's a other as an actuarian, because that's where I was studying to be, I know how this works. This is such a savings for the insurance company. They absolutely will do it with the right patient with the right diagnosis.

Freddie Kimmel (01:02:03.809)
It's actually savings for the government because if we looked at we just had our a doc Dr. Melissa Peterson on, she talked about, look, this is what it costs to keep a little alive with their last fifteen years with multiple chronic diseases. Here's what you save when your last fifteen years is not just fettered with all these just the pills and the medications and the procedures. It's a savings. Our government should be investing in this.

Paul Savage MD (01:02:06.401)
Hundred percent.

Paul Savage MD (01:02:26.263)
But even the healthy people that we do, they get markedly better. Their immune system gets better, their toxins go down, their neuroky I mean, they walk out of there like, I didn't know I could feel this good. And it's like so it's a it's it's been a very enjoyable four years and we're looking for a very successful but I think within five to six years we should be able to get Medicare paying it for certain disease states, which we can prove to them this is much less expensive than that. But thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Freddie Kimmel (01:02:52.305)
Amazing. Paul, you get to you get to turn in all the iPhones on the planet to Doctor Savage's channel. What would you say to the people of of the planet right now at this time?

Paul Savage MD (01:03:07.073)
The only existential threat to mankind is pollution and our stupidity to it. I'm just quoting Stephen Hawkin. Go read our book, learn how you can avoid toxins. It's a very good book. Go get your toxins tested, whether you do it from our website or from any functional medicine doctor, because you don't know what you don't know. And if you're symptomatic and you have a lot of toxins, give us a call. It's a free consultation. All of it's free until you decide whether you're going to

sign up for a protocol. Otherwise all the meetings up to that we don't charge for. Or if you're patient with a lot of toxins or not a lot of toxins, you want to do it for longevity, give us a call for that too. It's not a no, it's just we want to make sure people are well informed as to the value.

Freddie Kimmel (01:03:55.088)
Amazing. Thank you for being a guest on the Beautifully Broken podcast. Big love.

Paul Savage MD (01:03:59.534)
Bye bye.