Brain Cancer, Broadway, and Beauty with Catherine Wreford Ledlow

Catherine Wreford Ledlow is an accomplished artist having performed at the Stratford Festival at the age of 18 as part of West Side Story and The Tempest. Freddie and Catherine talk about brain cancer and how she got through the obstacles that surrounded her daily life.

This episode takes us into Catherine’s story and how much her life has changed ever since she was diagnosed. If you want to learn more about Catherine’s life, the daunting effect of brain cancer on the patient and their loved ones, or you just want to hear something inspiring and thought-provoking then you can’t miss this out!

Episode Highlights

2:29 Freddie and Catherine talk about brain cancer and how she noticed the signs before the actual diagnosis.

15:18 Dealing with children isn’t easy and Catherine shares how a proper support system helped her power through her diagnosis.

19:16 What type of brain cancer does Catherine have? She also discusses the kinds of chemotherapy that she has had to go through.

20:37 Catherine explains the prognosis given to her, the chemotherapy treatments that she has gone through, and going through a life-changing surgery.

24:45 The doctors gave Catherine four choices post-surgery in order to move forward.

30:36 Catherine shares the different alternatives that she has come across her journey towards her recovery.

33:54 Freddie and Catherine discuss how treatments and alternatives are effective but keeping your mindset and emotions in check is also important.

36:03 As the conversation continues, Freddie and Catherine further discuss the importance of keeping your diet in control.

41:43 Catherine talks about her family and how the people around you can help you throughout whatever you’re currently struggling in.

47:30 Freddie and Catherine discuss the huge impact that cancer has on everyone and that early detection is a big must in order to try and curb its mortality rate.

49:49 Catherine talks about being open about her brain cancer and finding something to laugh about despite it.

54:09 Freddie and Catherine talk about using Optune to help battle cancer cells.

57:24 As the episode comes to an end Freddie and Catherine discuss the opportunities that may come next.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

 Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (00:00.268)
The fact that I can wake up and do anything I want is what makes me happy and proud and grateful.

Welcome to the Beautifully Broken Podcast. I'm your host, Freddie Kimmel, and on the show we explore the survivor's journey, practitioners making a difference, and the therapeutic treatments and transformational technology that allow the body to heal itself. Witness the inspiration we gain by navigating the human experience with grace, humility, and a healthy dose of mistakes. Because part of being human is being beautifully broken.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (00:44.024)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the beautifully broken podcast season two. So excited that everybody could join us from around the world and over 29 countries. It's exciting. It's growing just like a snowball moving down a big old hill. Today we have Katherine Reiford Ledlow and she is born and raised in Winnipeg. She is a performer. We're bonded in that respect.

She's performed at the Stratford Festival at age 18. She was part of West Side Story and The Tempest. And then she went to play leading roles in many of New York Broadway shows and tours. She moved to LA, she ran a mortgage company for three years, and then she decides to become a nurse. So we've got health, we've got music theater, we've got wellness. And in the summer of 2013, she was diagnosed with brain cancer.

and went through chemotherapy and raised a family and all these incredible, incredible mountains she has climbed. And that is why she is a guest on the Beautifully Broken podcast because she has so beautifully put herself back together. So today I would like to welcome Catherine to the show. Hi, Freddie. How are you doing up there in Canada? I'm excellent. Actually, it's bit cooler now, so it's nice. I get to put my jeans back on. I see that you were like wrapped in a blanket.

You got the morning coffee going. I was like, crap. It's all good. And like most things we usually don't use video in these podcasts, we stick to the audio quality, but let's jump in at, my God, how do we know? just, let's start with brain cancer. Yeah, I think, well, sure. Sure. Sure. Why not? Well, what do you want to know about it? I mean, I would love to know kind of your story from when you knew something was off.

Probably that was happened a minute before maybe there were some signs from the body before your actual clinical diagnosis. I'd love to start there. Okay. So the first time I thought something was wrong was right after I gave birth to my son. I was working nights at a hospital while in nursing school. So I sort of answered the desk. Like when people called from different rooms, I answered them and then I went to their rooms if they needed anything. So I did that for 12 hours at nighttime.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (03:08.03)
and I went to school full time and I had a baby. I thought I kept seeing like halos and I had massive headaches like migraines that now I'd never had a migraine. So didn't really know what that what that was. So having these like weird like rainbows and then I would lose vision in part of my eyes. it'd be right if I was looking right at you. So if I looked up I could see forward.

But if I looked for it, couldn't see for it. And I remember thinking, that's scary. I wonder what's going on. So I went to Dr. Google and Googled, what does having a brain tumor feel like? And it was like 97 % of the time it first goes up with a seizure. So I like, I've never had a seizure. I'm totally fine.

And then I was talking to other people about it, like other nurses and doctors and stuff. And they said, well, it's probably you don't have enough sleep because I was in school and blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. And like feeding Elliot and, know, and they said, you're probably just don't have enough sleep. I was like, yeah, fair enough. Okay. I'm fine. So I remember thinking, that's bizarre. And so, but then when I got pregnant with my daughter, two years later,

I had zero symptoms. So all the symptoms went away when I was pregnant. I graduated nursing school, gave birth a week later, and then five weeks later I was diagnosed. So in those five weeks after she was born, I had constant migraines. I thought I had a sinus infection. I was dizzy. Parts of my arms and my leg were falling asleep. But I could explain every single one of them.

because I was a nurse. So, well, I have really low blood pressure. So I just thought, you know, when I stood up, that's why I got dizzy, because my blood pressure couldn't compensate. And I was leaning on my arm too long. was leaning on my leg too long, lying on my foot too long. So I thought that's why they're going to sleep and I had headaches because I just wasn't getting enough sleep. My husband had flown my best friend. Do you know who Craig Ramsey is?

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (05:27.556)
Yes. So he's my best friend. So my husband had flown to see me for my 33rd birthday from LA. We were in Oklahoma at the time. So we had just moved to Oklahoma from LA. And so he flew Craig to Oklahoma to see me for my birthday. And we were doing a video with my daughter. She was five weeks old, so I was allowed to exercise.

We were a video with my daughter, like in her biorm, we were doing lunges and like, were like, you know, passing her to each other. And Craig knows me better than anybody else. He knows I would not stop exercising unless something was really wrong. And I said, Craig, think we have to stop. like, what do you mean stop? I'm like, well, my head just hurts too much. It just hurts too much for me to keep going. He said, you need to go get checked. I'm like, no, I'm fine. just, you know, I'm just like, no.

You have to go get checked. like, fine. I'll call my midwife on Monday. So like before he left, he left on like a Saturday and it was, so I was going to call on the Monday. So he left Saturday night and he reminded me to call the doctor on Monday. And then Sunday evening, I was talking to my husband. was in the shower, giving Quinn a shower and holding her and I'm leaning sort of on the side of the door. I said, Oh, I'm really dizzy. And I hadn't just stood up. I hadn't done anything. He goes.

Well, go lie down. And the bed was like right behind me. And instead of going to the bed to lie down, I lay down on the bathroom floor. He sort of got out of the shower. like, what are doing? You told me to lie down. I'm doing what you told me to do, idiot. And he goes, the bed is right there. And I sort of looked at him and go, yeah, it is. So he's like, you have to call it to mermor. So of course I was studying for my NCLEX.

which is the nursing exam. And so my mom was going to be coming out on the Tuesday, so on the 25th. So on the 24th, I was sort of studying and Joel was about to leave to go to work. This was the Monday, so he was about to leave to go to work. And he said, did you call yet? I said, no, no, no, I'll call later. He said, I'm going to stay here till you call her. So I picked up the phone, I called her and I left a message. And I said that listed all the things that I had.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (07:50.288)
had happened to me. And I said, I left her a message, you can go to work. So he went to work. And then she called me right back after he had left and said, you have to go to the emergency room. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, I've never even been to an emergency room ever. I don't, I'm fine. I'll just come see you. I'm like, you know, she said, no, now you need to go now. I was like, oh, okay. What do you think's wrong? She's like, I don't know. So on the way there, I

convinced myself that I had pregnancy induced cardiomyopathy, which is when your heart gets bigger and it can't compensate for ask you if birth because your body gets smaller and mobile. So I just figured it was that. So when I got there, all of them knew me there because I'd done some of my training there at the hospital with OU. And so I came in and I said,

Hi everybody, this is my daughter Quinn. I think something's wrong with my heart, so let's do an EKG. So I like sort of was boxing them around. So they did an EKG. They took me in right away. Also probably because I had my five week old baby. So was still breastfeeding her. So they were like, she's so cute, Boba. Hi, Katharina, where are you? Hugs, hugs, hugs. They did a second EKG. Couldn't find anything wrong. And they said, you know, you gave birth naturally. You could have like a small.

brain bleed from pushing. was like, Oh, fair enough. So let's check that. I went into the CAT scan and when I came out of the CAT scan, everybody's faces were white and it didn't hit me yet. And I was like, Oh, where's my daughter? I have her back? And they're like, Oh no, just stay here for now. And I'm like, very funny. Can I have her back? And they just wouldn't let me leave or go or move. And then like,

All of a sudden, all these doctors came into the room. They had taken my scan up to see the neurosurgeon who was doing surgery. It was that bad that they brought it up to him in surgery. He said, schedule her for tomorrow morning. My surgeon said it was bigger than his fist and he has really big hands. So it was, it was about the size of a softball, not a baseball, a softball. took up about a quarter of my brain and it was right on my speech center.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (10:11.92)
The doctors that came into the room, said, oh, you have a mass on your brain. And I was like, okay, take it out. And they're like, no, it's not that simple. Do you want to see a picture of it? So they showed me the CT scan and I sort of was in shock and I said, can I call my husband? So I called him and said, I have a brain tumor. Can you come here?

So he was in shock too. I had arranged care for my son who was two. Picked up my son, don't know why, came to hospital but by the time he got there I was already in an MRI for pre-surgery MRI. He didn't know where Quinn was and he was like so in shock and Elliot was crying and I just remember lying on

the MRI table, trying not to move with just tears coming down my eyes. And I was like, fuck, my whole world has changed. And I remember just lying there and being like, holy shit, what do I do? Like, this is like the end of my, this is it. And I got back upstairs and I was trying to be strong and

Joel had sort of found Quinn and Elliot was eating a hot dog that they had bought somewhere. And we just had like all these doctors talking to us and they talked to Dr. Shagru, who the head surgeon and blah, blah, And they needed, and it had to be an awake craniotomy. And so I was awake during the whole surgery, but it was right close to, it was June 24th. So was close to July 4th. So it was an awake craniotomy at a teaching hospital. So they had to have like.

13 doctors in the room and all the students, all the doctor students in the room as well. So our medical students, so it was a big deal. They were trying to get it done on July 3rd, but they ended up doing it on July 5th. So I had to get all these tests prior to going in. So they needed to find where my base level was before they did the surgery so that they could see during surgery, if I could still do all the stuff that I could do before. So that's how that happened.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (12:36.81)
That's how that happened. I'm going to unpack a little bit of that and just kind of try to organize this for people listening. So. Sorry, that was a bit of a long story. No, it's great. It's great. So from your first symptom to your actual finding yourself in an emergency room where you're having surgery in two days, this is a couple of years. Yep. So the first time I had a symptom of it was right after Elliott was born and Elliott was almost three by the time Quinn was born.

You know, the other thing that I want to point out as a performer is somebody who, and I do talk about this once in a while, is somebody who is used to using their body to tell a story as a professional dancer, that you're used to some degree of pushing through pain or legitimizing when there's an ache or a signal from the body that you can self-explain. Absolutely. Like I was convinced it was just because I was tired and I was, you know, had low blood pressure and you know, it's just...

And like I'd never had a migraine before, but now that my headache is gone, it was like a serious, like a migraine where I probably shouldn't have been able to get out of bed for five weeks. And probably most of time I was pregnant. So probably about a year. Had a migraine and couldn't get rid of it and didn't really know that it was a migraine. But now that the day sort of after when it was gone, I was like, my God, I can actually think.

And with this skill set of again, you being somebody who can, you can talk your way through pain. You can understand when things aren't functional, but again, the show must go on. That's kind of programmed into your body. So it's interesting. You're sort of a double edged sword because not only do you have that performer instinct, but now you're trained in the medical field. So you can easily cherry pick.

conditions that can easily check those boxes for you. So it almost yielded itself to kind of this perfect storm for you to find yourself at this ground zero. Yep. But at the same time, like it did make sense. The first thing I thought was I might have a brain tumor. So I looked that up right away. As soon as I started having these sort of visual changes and what it mostly said was when you're tired. And it was always when I was tired.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (14:54.869)
but I probably was tired my entire children's younger life and probably still now, but now that they're 10 and seven. course. And being a parent does drain your life energy. I do not have kids, but I watch my brother and sister and I see the toll that it's taken on their life force. Well, you know what though, we're super lucky in that we moved back to Winnipeg and my

Mom and dad live here, my sister and her partner live here and they've got two kids, but it's mostly my mom. When I was diagnosed on June 24th, my mom wanted to fly out there that night, even though she had a plane ticket for the next morning that had been bought previously because my birthday's on the 26th of June, so she wanted to be there for my 33rd birthday. So she had booked a ticket for the 25th and she wanted to fly out on the 24th. I'm like, no, mom, just keep your flight for the 25th.

We'll see you on the 25th. I spent another year in Oklahoma before we moved back to Winnipeg and out of those 12 months we were there, my mom spent nine months of it with us in Oklahoma. Helping with my daughter, helping with my son, helping my husband with his business. It was a rough patch of time, but it also brought me a lot of faith and hope in people. had to stop breastfeeding my daughter when she was four and a half months old.

And previously with my son, had extra milk that I pumped and I donated it to a group in Oklahoma for people that can't pump enough or that have some like cancer or something like that. And I had no problem getting up in the middle of the night pumping and knowing that it would be for good use and blah, blah. But when people gave it back to me, I, it like it, it.

brought out something in me that hadn't been brought out before. Like it was just amazing that these people wanted to help me, that they were willing to get up in the middle of the night and pump. Whereas I had done it already, you know, but I just didn't, I didn't realize how much of a difference it could make in somebody's life when you do these little things that don't really matter to you, but you're happy that they can help somebody else. And I didn't even really know the person that I'd given it to, but it's all safe. It's all soundest. You just don't have to register online or anything for it. It was sort of,

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (17:19.358)
magical to me that all these people were willing to help just with that one thing. So we bought a freezer and put all the milk in there. at four and half months when I had to start chemo and radiation, it was actually proton radiation. It was able to still give her breast milk. And just even that made me cry every time I fed her. know, it's amazing. Yeah. It takes a village.

It a village. does take a village. then, you know, like my friend, Katherine White, who lived in London, she started something where people would bring me meals. So it was like a schedule, like breakfast, dinner, supper, or just like a big lunch. And I could serve it for dinner as well. And she set it up from England. She was my best friend as a kid and like all through elementary school. Her name is also Katherine. Her middle name is also Anne. And her last name also starts with a W. So she was...

Katherine WH, I was Katherine WR, and we were supposed to go to London to see her and her two little baby boys, Xavier and Oliver this summer, because Joel and I never went on our honeymoon. So we had planned this. We took two weeks off. We were going to buy the tickets and then COVID happened. So. Actually, you know, because there's, I'm sure there's so many people that haven't experienced with this. My grandmother died of brain cancer. had glioblastoma.

Yeah, it was my last year of high school. I remember it very vividly and You know a 17 18 years old you you process it how you process it Having an experience with cancer later in life. I wish I could go back in time and be more Present through that experience, but it is a 17 year old kid It's kind of like you think your life is so important and I just it's funny to reflect back on that now So can you go into?

exactly what type of cancer you were diagnosed with. Cause I know it's very different across the board. Right. So I have one less than what a glioblastoma is. So it's called an anaplastic astrocytoma. you got to say that one more time. Really slow. Anaplastic astrocytoma. Which is grade three. It will turn into a GBM, a glioblastoma, but it hasn't yet. So I go for MRIs every three months. have another one on September 17th. So I will.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (19:34.232)
see if it's still stable and it has been stable since my proton therapy and my chemotherapy. I did a lot of work on what kind of chemotherapy I wanted to get. I went to different places. We drove to Dallas and got information and I sent my genetics off for a Keras test, which tells you all about what genes you have and which ones you don't have and which ones they can try to tackle to get rid of it. So I had four different kinds of chemotherapy during my time, which is normally is just one.

for brain cancer, but it can be three, but I had four. that's amazing. So I want to ask also if you can say when we're, we're to go back to the emergency room. Yeah. It's a team of doctors. You're pale white. You're trying to process process. Do you remember pale white? I wasn't pale white. That's, that's even better. Right. What were they offering you is a prognosis and treatment options in that moment? Well,

First of all, my brain nearly hemorrhaged because it was so big. So they had to get it out. But it was on my speech center. So the first thing that they were concerned with was just getting as much of it out as they could. And we didn't really know a lot about it, even though I had studied cancer and brain cancer in nursing school. And I knew exactly what it could be.

But so they sort of said, have sort of a list of 10 things. It looks as though it could be from just the CT scan and from the MRI. They had a couple of things they knew it wasn't, but one of them it could have been was a GBM and, you know, oligodendrolyoma and astrotytoma and all these fancy words that my husband can't say, but I knew what they were. So I was in on it. we actually, Joel taught when we were in LA, he taught

One of his students was cancer doctor at Cedricinine. And so we asked him to send it to the head brain tumor guy there, Mr. Black, Andrew Black, I think was his name. So we sent him all, all my information and all like the MRI and all that stuff. And he asked who was doing the surgery and I said, Dr. Shagru. And he said, my gosh, Shagru, he's amazing. He said, if I can't do the surgery, Shagru can do it.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (21:58.924)
Like that's what he said, like when I can't do it, I send it to Shiguru because he's a miracle with his hands. So we felt super lucky. Shiguru had trained in Australia and England and in LA. He was from Oklahoma. He had just come back to Oklahoma like two weeks before I was diagnosed. So I feel like that was a super fortunate thing for me. And he's left now. So it was just that.

timing. was perfect timing for me and to have that surgery. My surgery was really long. My midwife, who gave birth to both my kids, worked there and wanted to hold my hand the entire time during my surgery. So she held my hand while I went in and didn't let it go for the whole like eight or nine hours of the surgery. I remember at one point

the doctor and all the nurses were like yelling and screaming at each other, close up, close it, hurry, hurry, hurry. But I don't know if I was a mat, they give you enough drugs. So you're kind of like, ooh, we, you know, but you can still, and everything was just sort of funny to me during that time. But, then they sort of knock you out to sew you back up. So they give you like some pro propofol during that time when they do that. And so I remember

So I couldn't talk after my surgery because of the swelling. And also they were worried that they might have cut something that they shouldn't have cut because they were only having me sort of count to 10. And I could count to 10 after the surgery, but I couldn't make words. So I knew exactly what I wanted to say, but I couldn't get it out of my mouth. I couldn't write and I couldn't sign anything. That was kind of difficult, but I remember asking my midwife,

a year later, because I didn't really have the balls to ask it earlier. And I said, did I almost die during surgery? And she looked at me and she changed the subject because she knew I didn't want to hear it, she knew that I knew what she was going to say. yes, I think that I did almost die during my surgery, but I didn't. So here I am.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (24:22.488)
I'm super grateful that I can be here and talk to you today and do everything that I can do. Yeah. I mean, you're beyond, beyond functional. And so what you did was a surgery and then you said you also did chemotherapy and radiation for the treatment. Yes. So I had to wait for it to heal because it's a big, you can't see it, but I have a scar from sort of the top of my ears to the middle of my top of my head. It goes in a little

They thought they could just do a keyhole one, when they got in it was so big they had to just cut it all open and cut a huge chunk of my skull out. So you can, I always tell people that, you know, my husband says, you have a screw loose. So you're only half a brain person. I'm like, no Joel. So we have a dark side to us. We have a very dark humor, but I had to let it heal before I started that. So I actually came back to Winnipeg before we were.

able to move and spent sort of the end of July and August in Winnipeg and sort of just spent the time figuring out what I wanted to do for treatment because they sort of said, we don't really know how to help this. You can do nothing, wait and see. You can have radiation and no chemotherapy. can have chemotherapy and no radiation.

That was pretty much it. So it was like four choices, nothing, both, just chemo or just radiation. So I started doing a ton of research. I sort of asked Dr. Shiguro, was like, so if I don't do any of this and it starts to grow again, what are the chances of me not being able to talk? And he said, 100%. I said, well, then that's not an option. Because I want to be able to talk.

and I, and I love talking as you can tell. So they sort of said, okay, well, we decided I would do that, but we sort of wanted to see what was better doing chemo and radiation together and then doing more chemo or doing just radiation and then doing chemo. And so I did a ton of ton, a ton of research and I discovered that this was not really well known at the time.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (26:48.158)
And it came out like five years ago that it was the right thing to do. But at the time we didn't really know. We were sort of guessing, which is hard. So we were guessing that I did actually proton therapy, which is less dangerous to a young person's mind than whole brain radiation. So I did proton radiation at a proton therapy place that was down the street from where we lived in Oklahoma.

And there were at the time like 12 of them around the United States. And one happened to be just down the street from where we lived. So all of this is falling into place perfectly. So I did chemo and radiation at the same time. I did timozolomide, which is a pill. it every day half an hour before I did radiation. That one was a low dose of the radiation. when you...

take it, opens up the blood brain barrier so that more of the radiation can get into the brain. So it was a lot of learning and a lot of trying to figure out what was right and what was wrong. I think it's fascinating to sidebar this little fact in here is people think that the blood brain barrier is a physical thing, but it's actually like a charge. There's like an electrical charge that doesn't allow certain, well, bacteria, microbes, parasites.

Yes, I don't allow it through but when you have it once you take the chemo caffinara before it sort of loosens the charge So it can get in there a little bit better. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing that really does it is Bluetooth headphones We'll loosen the charge so we can get that signal right into your brain. Yeah and so then I did four kinds of Chemotherapy, which is what's called the Denver protocol. So there'd only been like

13, 14 people that had done it before. So it was four different kinds of chemo, two were oral and two were IVs. I did that for about a year and then my platelets were too low to keep going. So we had to stop before the end of it. But at that time my body was like, need to stop anyway. So we've sort of finished that and then I sort of recovered, guess.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (29:10.584)
And then actually we were finishing it up in Winnipeg with my amazing doctor, Dr. Pete, who is at cancer care right now. But I finished it here in Winnipeg and he was so amazing. He agreed to follow the protocol that I was on even though it wasn't, he didn't have to, but he agreed that it was, like, I had never heard of it. So we looked it up and he agreed that it was really great. And so I'm sort of bringing new information to them. so.

Since then, I've been doing a ton of fundraising to help him with his research and to help Cancer Care Manitoba have more money to do whatever they need with. So I've probably raised about $200,000 so far since being back. Incredible. So I don't feel like that's even enough to do anything, but I'm trying my best. It's massive and it's the intention behind the money that you'd raised, I think more than the amount.

And I do think that's so important and incredible. You know, I want to ask you in the midst of the experience, what was your pull towards wanting to do standard of care? What was offered with possibly some alternative therapies or were you in the mindset to entertain some ideas that were maybe, I did everything. Yeah. Let's hear some, let's hear about some of that. Well, I went through very different phases of it. So my husband does.

Yes. I think they both work. So he is a super amazing martial artist. And so he learned this through his martial arts training. Yeah. It's very powerful. We actually bought a table and he did it on me all the time. I wish it was that again, because it felt amazing. Joel, you need to keep doing this energy work on your wife. I'm calling you out on the podcast. So he did that on me a lot. actually

We were in LA, we saw some of his friends that did it as well and I was treated there as well. I sort of was like on a keto diet because sugar feeds cancer, but because of the blood brain barrier, we weren't sure if that worked. And it was hard because raising two kids, we actually raised them on, like they love all vegetables, they love pear, spinach, but even like that has.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (31:36.376)
carbs in it and like it does a carrot has carbs in it. So I sort of did that for a while. I also have an eating disorder. So coming out of like being now healthy and then having to look exactly what I'm eating and being very careful. I was like, this is going to be a nightmare for me. And I knew in my head that I couldn't do it anymore. So I just said, you know what? I tried this, but

I can't do it because it will get me back into counting exactly how many calories I have and exactly this. And I did not want to get back into that loop. Now being a recovered anorexic person, I am very careful about where I let my brain go to and how I worry about things. now I just worry about, I eating enough food? Do I have enough energy? Am I hungry ever? I, you know, when I listen to my body, I don't count anything. I don't.

do noom or whatever that thing is. just, I know what my body needs and I give that to my body. The fact I want to throw in for people is when you do an imaging and you know, if we do a scan and you know, one way to image, especially breast cancer is to inject a little bit of insulin and see how the cancer cells light up like Christmas tree when they're subjected to a little bit of sugar.

And this is a thing. So the two books that I absolutely love. Insulin's not sugar. But for some reason, the insulin does fire up the sugar receptor site on the cell. Do you know the imaging tests that I'm talking about? No, I don't. my goodness. It's such a common name. My mom has diabetes. She's type 1 diabetes. So I know if she gives insulin and she doesn't eat enough. I think it might be a PET scan.

In my MRI, I get shots so that it can light up. Yeah. But yeah, so I have the MRI and then they shoot it up with me and see what lights up in my brain. So that's an MRI, but I think with a PET scan, can get it. Like I had one on my knee, like when I was a teenager and I remember them. I got to go back and look. I'll make a correction in the show notes, but the MRI is the magnetic resonance imaging and that's just bouncing a magnetic field back and forth to get a clear image.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (33:58.294)
But there is a test that they do use. It's a sugar or it's an insulin or it's something that does light up the cancer cell. So these two books called one's called tripping over the truth. One's called the metabolic approach to cancer. Those are both great. If people want to explore the idea of using some type of a dietary approach with their cancer protocol, which I've found to be very beneficial for myself. But like you said, I think what supersedes the food is

mindset and how you feel and how your level of happiness. Right. Because if it's going to make you crazy, it's just not worth it. Well, and also to brain catch very different from any other kind of cancer because you can't like fix it. You can't eat something that will make it better because you can't get to it. Like it's stuck in your brain. If it was anywhere else but my brain, I would be super into, I eat super healthy right now, but like

cutting out coffee or cutting out any kind of alcohol or you know what I mean? Like it's not, it's not something that I can control by just eating something different. You know, like I'm a healthy weight. I, I exercise at least an hour and a half every day. I am confident in my body. I, I feel good. I can kick my face. I can jump on the trampoline with my kids. I can, you know,

have fun with them. I do get more tired. I have no short term memory right now. That's why I keep asking you, what were you saying? What did you just ask me? Everybody does that. It's not just you. But I used to have like a photographic memory. could memorize anything. And now I take hours and hours of readings, a couple lines to memorize them. Yeah. And when I perform, as soon as I get cast,

Everybody knows in Winnipeg that I have brain cancer. So they will send me the script immediately so that I can start rehearsing it every single day and the songs and the lines and all that stuff. So that's amazing. There's actually a scientist's name's Dom DiAgostino. He's a big ketogenic fan. He's a weightlifter and he's seen really good evidentiary proof that a ketogenic diet does benefit even glioblastoma. They've seen benefit in the long term.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (36:16.564)
survival effects. And the other dietary thing that I've seen, it's a type of water, which I've actually done. It's deuterium depleted water. You're telling me about, Yeah. That through drinking this water that has been depleted of these deuterium isotopes that the body can benefit. And it is shown to have benefit on the whole body, even crossing the blood brain barrier. So there's definitely some stuff out there if you want to go in the rabbit hole. But I imagine, like I experienced

There's a point where you have to say, there's so much information. I got to make a plan tomorrow. For me, I remember back in the day, because I just didn't know everything. And I didn't know there were coaches out there that help people with cancer. I didn't know what a health coach was. I didn't know what functional medicine was. I didn't know any of this. I ate the morning biscuit sandwiches from McDonald's on the way to chemotherapy, doubles and double hash browns. And I loved it. I loved it. But I just wasn't into it.

So when people would suggest to me, there's this mushroom complex that can melt away cancer. I'd get really angry. I'm like, this is my body. was like, don't sit down. I'm not going to skip out on the standard of care and take mushrooms. Step off. Step back, please. Step away. Step away. I've always really eaten very healthy. Like I eat fruits, vegetables, and I don't really eat any carbs, besides fruit and wine, occasional glass of wine. But I really don't eat, I don't eat rice, don't eat bread. don't eat, you know. Yeah.

pasta, any of that stuff and I never have. Yeah. I also don't like chocolate, you know, so there's so many things that I don't eat and don't like that it's very easy for me to eat. Well, but also like my mom has type one diabetes. So we grew up with carrots and celery and broccoli and cauliflower caught up in the fridge. So if we were hungry, we'd just go and grab some carrots or some cauliflower. And that's sort of how I grew up. So it wasn't ever.

Nothing was banned in our house, but everything was available to us, but it was just easy for us to just grab those kinds of snacks. that's sort of how I grew up. there was no big change in the way I eat now as to when I did beef and my childhood. it's also that's the way we raised our kids too. they love every kind of vegetable except for they don't really like zucchini right now, but that's fine because we've got to...

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (38:37.686)
ton of zucchini growing outside and my husband and I get to eat it all. So that's great. The other thing I want to just kind of pose this question is like, so you said it's a challenge to have this like, you knew you had a photographic memory and now you're like, you get some lines, your loving community sends you these things with months in advance. think that's absolutely incredible. What does it feel like to be on stage?

again, for people listening, like in this moving vehicle that live theater does not stop you once you're on once the curtain goes up. It's it's a roller coaster. So is that scary at all? Or do you feel really good in your body? Very scary. But I have little tricks and things that I do that help me get through it. So right before COVID happened, I played Allison in Fun Home. I was on stage.

higher time. Yeah. So it couldn't like go off stage and check what my next line was or what next song came up. However, Allison has this big drawing board. So I had made notes, really specific notes about what lines were coming up or like very, or the intention of the line.

or if there was one word I couldn't get, I wrote it in huge, huge letters across my board. But I still had things that were on the board that I moved. I was drawing on it the whole time and I had done it. Again, I'd gotten the script like in the summertime and this wasn't until like October that we did it. I was sort of trying to...

memorize it all and at the same time, but I also knew that I would have this board that I could always go back to in case something happens. That's incredible. Singing songs where there's two other people singing something different than you. it was hard for me as well, but we did it. It was sold out before it even opened. So we did that run and my son was in the show. He played the youngest kid, John. I saw that.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (40:52.02)
And then your son, your son is a little bit of a dancer too, right? Yeah, he is. Yes. Amazing. one that was going to hear before. That's incredible. dancing. And he's got a, he's got a good voice. One part of me is like, you're going to be a superstar. You can make it on Broadway because he's also American. And then the other part of me is like, no, just go be a doctor. Go do something different. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm in the process of, cause I had just left New York right before COVID.

And in the process of, you know, hosting a podcast and being involved in all these startups for health and wellness, you make a choice. And I very much grieve daily the stage or I find it's totally tolerable if I end my day with singing through the cast recording of Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Yeah.

I've been listening to Hamilton all the time right now because I just am obsessed with it right now. yeah, and like that's Elliot too. Like he loves singing. He sang from James and the Giant Peach. sang that song. Alone in the Universe? No, not Alone in the Universe. But anyway, he and like every time he did it, everybody in the audience just cried because he's such a little beautiful soul. like he comes in here and wants to ask you a question. Yeah, it was very, very cute.

So when my daughter was born, think somebody knew that I needed her to get through this whole thing. She has the calmest, most loving peace and joy about her. She is very special. My son is super special too, and he's just super talented and can really do whatever he wants, but he gets angry and he, you know, he's like a typical 10 year old, you know. He's a boy.

He's boy. He can be tough and rough and not think about others' feelings at sometimes. He is pretty empathetic, but Quinn just knows exactly what you need without you even having to say it. She has her whole life. And I think that somebody knew somewhere that I needed her to keep me calm and to help me feel okay with what was happening.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (43:05.779)
And so she's just always been there to hold my hand, I guess, just to help me through what was happening in my crazy world. And I mean, she was five weeks old. Can you imagine five weeks old? I breastfed her until she was four and a half months old. So she was with me the whole time in the hospital, in like ICU and everything. It's funny that right after surgery, I started throwing up and I got a super high fever and they took Quinn away.

because I couldn't talk, I couldn't write, couldn't mime. It took me eight hours of me standing up and like shaking my hands for them to realize that I needed Quinn back. And my mom finally realized, because they had sent her away. So it was the night nurse, because my surgery finished at like 10 o'clock at night. The night nurse was there. And I couldn't, I couldn't mime. I couldn't even do anything. So was like pointing at my milk bottle and my pump going,

like pointing at it and then going, it's not full. This is what this, was like sort of clapping my hand, but to me that meant it's not full. It's not full. I can't fill it. I need my baby, you know? And finally I rocked my arms back and forth and my mom knew that that meant baby. And she's like, oh my gosh, do you want Quinn back? I said, yes, yes. So she got on the phone and called Joel and said, bring her here right now. And I just, I just started crying because I just couldn't.

It was so frustrating not being able to talk or write or mime or anything. I had to go to speech therapy all the time and like every day. yeah, it was just a, it was a bit of a, not a mess, but it was a bit of a, I don't want to say nightmare, but it was a bit of a trial. And fortunately I had so many amazing people around me also because I had just

graduated nursing school. had a lot of nursing friends. Also, I graduated top of class. I won a scholarship. I went to school on full scholarship. I got paid to go to school basically. I ran a study group. I got everybody together on Sundays. I printed out everything and I gave it to everybody and went through everything. I told them what to highlight, what to study in their books. I was the president of the Student Nursing Association. So I was

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (45:28.937)
very much involved in nursing school and I loved it. And so after my diagnosis, I couldn't take the NCLEX because I was in the hospital at the time I was going to get to take my NCLEX. So I called them right before I went into the hospital and I said, I need to rearrange my NCLEX. I'm like, sir, we can't do that. like, I'm going to be in the hospital getting a brain tumor removed during that day and I, well, let's see what we can do. So I scheduled it for September 25th or something and

So as as I could start reading again and studying again and pressing yes, no, and picking answers on a computer screen, I took the test and I passed it very easily. But because it was my speech center, I'm not allowed to be a nurse because I say things sometimes. My brain thinks one thing, but I say something else. So I wouldn't want me to be my nurse if I was a patient because I wouldn't want to give somebody 200 milligrams when I was supposed to give them

20 or 20 when I'm only supposed to give them to or say something completely wrong and have their treatment messed up. But I'm sort of still looking into becoming a nurse at Cancer Care. So I love to do that, but I have to, it's been a long version of this, but so right now I am the facilitator of the Brain Cancer Support Group here in Winnipeg. So I run that and I've done that for the last four or five years.

So we meet once a month, every third Wednesday, but now we just meet on zoom, just like we're doing right now. so I like to do in a COVID world, which is also upsetting too, because a lot of people in the brain cancer world have no memory. They can't figure out computers very well. A lot of them have major disabilities. can't walk. can't figure out what time it starts at and stuff like that. So it's, it's been a challenge still trying to.

figure that out. I would also offer that one thing I'm aware of is that cancer diagnosis in the States since March has plummeted. Yeah. And part of a favorable outcome is early detection. That's not happening right now. You know, we, just saw a very famous actor in the States from the Marvel series just passed away this week and you know, colon cancer at 43. And I think yes.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (47:54.499)
you know, we need to deal with the things at hand, but we also need to realize for me seeing that news, it's like, yes, like the number one killer as the people fought amongst themselves, they were silently reminded that the number one killer is cancer. And there are 600,000 people die a year in the just the U S of cancer alone. And there's 1.8 million people diagnosed in a one year with cancer. And that's, this is the thing that

You know, it's huge and we have to make space for people to feel comfortable to go in to get their screens to be diagnosed to get the support that they really need. So I'm really passionate about spreading that message more. Well, in Canada, 27 people a day get diagnosed with brain cancer or a brain tumor. Well, I think anything that grows in your brain that's not supposed to be there is called cancer, but they don't call it cancer until it's grade three.

So grade one and two, they don't call it cancer, it's benign, but it can grow and turn into a malignant tumor at any time. So I just feel like that's really silly. So 27 people a day in Canada get diagnosed with brain tumor. is not a good- No, and here much, I can't imagine what it is in the States, must be many more. Yeah, it's really fascinating. mean, if you really want, people want to do a deep dive and sort of go down the rabbit hole, you know, I have,

And once you went through the experience, of course, it's like buying a Jeep. when you drive down the street, you're like, my God, there's another Jeep. And then when you go through the experience of cancer, you're like, you have all these people like, I don't know if this happens to you, like weekly, someone messages me on Facebook, they're like, Hey, I'm diagnosed with cancer or my mom's diagnosed or my brother's diagnosed or I'm going through this experience right now. What do I do? What are my resources? Where do I go? And there's so much information out there.

that it's overwhelming. Because I'm very open about everything. I'm very open with anybody who asked me anything. Yeah. You know, even my kids, like we brought Elliot with us to my oncologist two years ago and he listened, was very like really looked at those, he really listening to what he said. And then Dr. said, do you have any questions for me? Elliot goes, yes. How much money do you make? my God. Not that question. goes like, well,

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (50:12.575)
But because he completely understood what we'd been telling him, he didn't have a question for him about my cancer. Cause we are so open with him. But I just thought maybe there's a question he wants to ask him that isn't so comfortable asking me. And I said, I can leave the room if you want me to. And he's like, no, no, no, but how much money do you make? I'm like, well, that's an actual good question because he's maybe looking at becoming a neuro-oncologist when he gets older. I love it.

So like every time I watch a TV show or if I see a movie, the thing that kills somebody is brain cancer. It's not any other kind of cancer. It's brain cancer because that is uncurable right now. Like breast cancer, you can die of it now because it got so much money. There are ways to not all of it. And like this is being very rego to me. But I think that with all that money, they...

We're able to figure out ways to cure it or help it or, or have it just be a long time. A managed condition managed controlled disease, but with brain cancer, like type three and type four, they have not found anything that can extend your life for longer than a couple of months. I forget which movie it was, but Joel and I had gone on a date night.

And we were going to see this new movie that was out. And in the very first part of movie, the guy gets brain cancer and he ends up dying from it. I was like, could nobody have told me not to see this movie? Please, people look out for Catherine when she's announcing date night, let her know, just give her a little synopsis. Right. And like, and Joel didn't know. we were like, we didn't like, we were super like, like we hadn't been on a date since I'd been.

diagnosed and so it was like our big night we went for dinner and then we laughed out loud super hard everybody was like what is wrong with you and then didn't want to like announce like it's okay I brain cancer too you know but it was it was one of those things that we just laughed about and like thank goodness I'm with Joel because we have the same sense of humor but it was just one of those things it's like of course of course he has brain cancer you know and then like watching

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (52:31.627)
Grey's Anatomy, everybody's got a brain tumor on there. I love that show. I have PTSD from medical shows. The other thing that crushes me with COVID is the hand sanitizer. I can't. like, is oncology word right there. People dousing you in hand sanitizer. I get PTSD from it. I am not a fan. I get PTSD from yoga because

When you lie on your back. So when I did radiation, you have a mask. Yes. Locked into place and you like move around in it and up and down and all around and lying on my back. I'm like, ah, I can't do this. Yeah. You don't really realize like, and I, I was sort of was doing a yoga class and I sat up and it's like, I can't do this. she goes, do you mean? Can I lie a different way? Cause I just can't lie like this. So I ended up lying sort of.

in child's pose with my arms open. Catherine, one other thing I want to ask you about is we had talked a little bit just about a month ago and you know are always things coming across the finish line that are being presented to patients and one is a system called Optune which is a cap that delivers resonant frequencies to actually stop the

especially glioblastoma from dividing and they're finding good efficacy as good as standard of care without doing some of the more toxic drugs. Was that in your field of awareness when you went through brain cancer? Yes and no. It's usually used after you do everything that you can. And at the time, and it wasn't approved where I lived and it's not approved in Canada anymore either, but my friend did it through a trial in Chicago who he lives in London, Ontario.

He is a GBM. We became friends because he is a facilitator in London, Ontario. We have these meetups once a year and he's just like me. He's really loud. We're both kind of the same age. We have all these competitions where we're at the meeting of who can ask the most questions and who can get as many things on their vouchers as possible. so we sort of came into this not really trusting each other. And then like immediately we became best friends. So his name is Deneep.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (54:53.583)
And he had it and he was diagnosed almost the exact same time as me, like a month later. had glioblastoma. I had one less than he does. So he's been fine still, but he did do radiation and chemotherapy and Optune. So when I, when it does come back, I will very much look into that. And I've been sort of keeping my eye on it as well. And so once I do get a regrowth of that, I will look into that.

Obviously now wait a second. You just said when it comes back, could we not put into the field of the possibility? It will come back. might not come back for 50 years. I know my body and I know that my body's not done with this. And I know also that they couldn't get it all out. They did radiation and chemotherapy, but it didn't grow, but it didn't shrink. So I know it will come back, but I'm totally okay with that.

Like I've accepted it and it might not be until I'm 80, you know, but I know it will come back. at that time I will look into Optune or whatever is out there. So I'm just keeping track of what therapies could be for me that aren't radiation and chemotherapy. because that hasn't really seemed to work very well and made me sick. So I'd rather, but I mean, you have to shave your head. have to, which is fine. I don't care about my hair.

Obviously you don't either. love my bald head. shaved my head after chemo. I let it grow back one time and that was it. I want to keep shaving my head, because I do a lot of film stuff too and it was like kind of a shaved head for someone. I'm why the fuck not? You can have a gray wig. Right? Exactly. I get the best wigs when I shows. I loved being bald. I loved it. And I was bald for about a year also because of radiation.

I was super bald right here, right? Like in this whole big circle. And then I'd like a bald patch here and a bald patch here and then hair sort of sparsely growing all around. It's not good until this part started to come back. But I mean, it's still very thin on this side. I loved having, I loved being bald. It was so easy. just wish that I could go back to that. So if I had to get option, I'd be able to shave my head. So that would be great too.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (57:21.181)
I love it. So I just want to also want to recap. I want to be respectful of time. So Catherine, Broadway star, the mother of a beautiful family, two beautiful children, graduated top of her class in nursing school, facilitating research for brain cancer, raising over $200,000 and really seeing what's next. I think you have such an amazing story. And I'm really excited to see

what unfolds next, because I think it's going to be something very, very big. I hope you feel that too. I do. feel as though, like right now I have no, nothing that changes me from being a normal person, except for the fact that I have no short-term memory. And I take medication for seizures. I take an anti-seizure medication, Kevrap, which we had to lower the dose because it made me very angry, but it allows me to drive. Now I can drive during the day where I wasn't allowed to before.

I feel as though I have a little bit of my freedom back and I can ride my bike anywhere, but in the winter time in Winnipeg, it's really hard to ride a bike, especially when you can't feel your feet because they're so cold. But so I have a little bit more freedom with that now. And this is crazy for me to say, but I'm so grateful that I was given the opportunity of being diagnosed with brain cancer because it completely changed my life, my family's life, my husband's life, our kids life.

I feel as though they feel as though they can ask me anything and I will be totally honest with them and my husband the same way. I pushed my parents to be more open about what they need, what their struggles are. Same with my husband. I feel as though it moved me from seeing that long term, I need to get to there, I want to have this much money, I want to do that and that and that, to just being in the moment every day and just enjoying.

that moment, like enjoying this cat that snuggled up with me and enjoying this, the fact that I'm sitting in a room with my crocheting right over there that I've been working on when we watch a movie at nighttime and just being able to feel loved and feel appreciated. And I'm grateful to be in this place, in this house, near my family, near my sister's family and be able to be just cool with that and not have like anything huge happening, just being

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (59:47.147)
cool with just being in this place at this time. And, and I'm about to go see my son who was, you know, bringing books back to the library because we got a notice today saying that it was okay to bring books back, you know, and also like sewing up our trampoline with my mom that my son decided to crawl through during his birthday party with two people the other day. And, and just having things like that be my life and that

is so amazing that I get to wake up and have that life. That I'm not depressed or that I'm not crying all day or that I'm not part of the world that I was meant to be in. And I know that that sounds stupid to most people, but the fact that I can wake up and do anything I want is what makes me happy and proud and grateful. And that my family gets that too and they know

that that's how I live my life. I sort of don't worry about small things anymore. I just worry about having a good day and getting the things done that I planned for myself to do that day and then go on to the next day. You know, it's just a different way of living. And I know a lot of people have found this way of living. I don't think I would have had I not been diagnosed with brain cancer.

That's beautiful. Catherine, if you could give someone that's been newly diagnosed with brain cancer, one piece of advice, what would it be? You're not alone. You just aren't alone. You can put my phone number out there if you want to. Like I want people to be part of this community, being part of being open about what they're going through and being able to talk about it because

Like what you said like, there's a Jeep. There's another Jeep, right? So it's like once you have cancer you see all these people that have cancer or people reaching out to you that have cancer and And then people like if you don't mind i'm like, of course, I don't mind call me text me Be with me. I'll just sit there and listen to you i'll just i've been in operations with I sat with families where their Family where their other family member is in surgery calming them down talking to them telling them my experiences what they should look out for all this kind of stuff. So

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (01:02:07.739)
Just know that you're not alone. There's a brain cancer or brain tumor association in America and there's one in Canada. Just type in brain cancer association or whatever you want in your computer and it'll come up. Our brain tumor foundation and any kind of cancer that you're going to get on your computer and type I need help. I have breast cancer. I have brain cancer. You're not alone. There are so many groups on Facebook, Instagram, all this kind of stuff that

will help you realize that there are other treatments. are not just this is the standard treatment, but this can also help, this can also help. And just doing research on that, get on your computer, get on your phone. And if that's too much for you, ask for help. Please ask for help. took me, I'm so used to being

Like, I'm gonna do this and this and this and I don't need anybody's help. I'm, you know, like as I was saying, like head of my student association, you know, all this kind of stuff that I needed to be the leader on. Now I realized it's okay to ask for help. It's okay to have somebody make you separate. It's okay to have, you know, somebody drive you somewhere when you can't drive yourself, you know, and just acknowledging the fact that there are people that not only does it give you help, it gives them joy to help you.

So I think that's something that I didn't really realize because I always got joy helping other people, but, but I didn't realize how much joy other people get from helping you. So, I'm like, they're just getting joy out of helping me. Amazing. And then I have one more question for you. If you could go back and, you know, see yourself as a little child, think about a pivotal age. You know, I think most of us can imagine, or we have an experience where childhood is free and easy until it's not.

If you could go back and offer yourself a piece of advice as a younger human being, tell me what the age and what the piece of advice would be. that's tough. I, well, this goes back to a bunch of different things. was after I'd played Liesl. I was just turned 16. So that was perfect. I played Liesl all summer at Rainbow stage here in Winnipeg. And I felt super great. was, you know,

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (01:04:26.941)
ready to do musical theatre as my not even like just moved to Toronto right then. And I remember coming back into dance class and one of my teachers said, my you've gained weight over the summer. And immediately I was like, I have. And so that began my sort of downwards spiral, but I would tell myself you're perfect. You're great. I would tell myself that I was perfect the way I was.

and that I shouldn't have listened to that person. But saying that is easy. But living it is something different and I feel like had I not lived it, had I not been through all of the stuff that I've been through, I wouldn't be the same person. I wouldn't have the kind of strength that I have of getting through all of that shit I went through and be a strong person as I am right now.

And I hope all the other young 16 year old people who have just played Liesl know that you're perfect in every way, shape, color, size, form, distinction on the planet. You're perfect. You're just the way you're meant to be. Yeah. It has been a pleasure to have you on the podcast. I cannot wait to make magic with this episode. I have some really good ideas. A lot of stuff to cut out. No, no, no, no, no. I have I have some beautiful colors to paint with and I'm really excited.

I'm really excited to get this out and for people to hear it, especially now, you know, because the world has not, it might feel like the world has paused, but it is not, especially, especially for us going through the experience of cancer and chronic illness and disease and managing that on the day to day. And that is what this is about is connecting with people like you and sharing your story. So Catherine, thank you for being a guest on the beautifully broken podcast. was my pleasure.

to hear your story and I'm so excited to share it with other people across the universe. Namaste.

Freddie Kimmel and Catherine Wreford Ledlow (01:06:30.067)
Ladies and gentlemen, you made it to the end of the podcast and here we are at season two. I think this is the beginning of something really beautiful. So one way to support the podcast is to head over to freddycedgo.com and check out Freddy's faves where I've linked every five star product and healing modality you hear about on the show. Most offer significant discounts by clicking the link or using the discount code. Please know they don't cost you anything extra. And at the same time,

They support the podcast through affiliations. check out Freddie's faves on freddysetgo.com. My heart honestly thanks you for tuning in. And if you've enjoyed today's show, head over to Apple podcasts and leave a five star review. gives us the virtual thumbs up that we're doing things right. If you want to connect with me directly, I'm on Instagram at freddysetgo or freddysetgo.com through email. Now,

This is a message from my vast legal team of internet lawyers. The information on this podcast is for educational purposes only. By listening, you agree not to use the information found here as medical advice to treat any medical condition in yourself or others. Always consult your physician for any medical issues that you might be having. That's it for today. Our closing, the world is hurting. We need you at your very best. So take the steps today to always be upgrading. Remember, while life is pain, putting the fractured pieces back together is a beautiful process. I love you.