Decoding the Glow: Wavelengths, Pulse Rates, and the Truth Behind Red Light Therapy with Scott Kennedy

WELCOME TO EPISODE 224

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Beautifully Broken podcast.
1:15
I am here with Scott Kennedy from Light Path LED.
Scott, welcome back to the show.
Thanks so much again Freddie for having me.
Of course, it's always a pleasure.
I think red light is one of those things that I could talk about.
I could talk about it every four or five months because it's often in the conversation.
1:32
Increasingly, increasingly, I noticed Andrew Huberman, just Lord Huberman took a sponsor, he's actually promoting a red light panel.
I was, I knew it was going to happen.
I knew it was a matter of time and who was going to be the highest bidder.
But when these well known scientists in the community are starting to realize all the benefits of red light, I am reminded how easy it is, how powerful it is and how accessible it is to a home user.
1:58
So with that, I would love to go over layer one, base layer question.
How does red light impact the health of the body or the cell when the skin is exposed to a spectrum of red light?
Sure.
So here's the issue is that we always get these questions.
2:14
Will Light help with this issue or this disorder or this dysfunction?
And the easiest answer is just bring it down to the base root of what Light does, which is really just one main thing.
There's other things that go on, but it's really one main thing and that's it energizes the cells.
2:32
Once we energize the cells to create more energy called ATP, from that point in, it's whatever the body's going to do with that extra energy.
No different than if we're starving and we eat or we're thirsty and we drink, what happens to the body?
2:49
A whole host of positive things happen.
So light is not curing your issue.
What it's doing is boosting cellular strength, cellular respiration.
From that point on it's everything that the body does.
3:07
Whether that's anti-inflammatory agents, stem cells, differentiation of balancing of hormones, nitric oxide released to create vasodilation, more blood flow, more oxygen, more collagen through fibroblastic activity, DNARNA synthesis.
3:29
So we can go down the whole list of things that occur because the cells are performing better, but that's at the basis of what light does and that's specifically we go quickly.
The mitochondria, high school powerhouse of the cell that absorbs the red near infrared light.
3:51
There's actually a wheel that turns in the mitochondria, rotates 9000 rotations per minute, that spins faster, pushes out more ATP energy, and then we get all the benefits from that.
Yeah, great.
4:07
It's great.
So if we wanted to just pick apart that little science experiment in the mitochondria, we've got these little nanomotors.
They're spinning around like little turbines.
They're breaking apart the adenosine triphosphate, correct?
They're kind of releasing that electron bond, and then we have more energy flowing throughout the cells so we can see this activity, which is in turn going to help with skin damage, wrinkles, circulation.
4:32
It's like there's almost, you can imagine, if you imagine if we had a river downstream of a dam and we let a little energy within more water flow into that river.
Everything starts to move, everything's nourished a little bit better.
Is there any other mechanism that you think is important for the home user to understand?
4:51
You said release of nitric oxide.
How is that happening inside a cell if you happen to know?
When the light gets absorbed by the mitochondria, that wheel that I was just talking about, it actually can get clogged up by excessive nitric oxide.
5:07
So nitric oxide wants to kind of clamp up onto that wheel and slow it down.
If it's slowed down, less ATP is produced.
When light comes in and hits that, nitric oxide gets released, gets released into the bloodstream.
5:22
There's about 6 steps that it then goes through before we see vasodilation.
Now, nitric oxide is so amazingly important to our immune system, to our health in general.
5:38
I think back in the 90s it was consider like the protein of the century when they found out all the great things that nitric oxide can do.
So hugely, hugely important, but that's really what it's doing it it's just basically clogging up the system.
Like anything you too much of something good can be not so good.
5:58
That's the case here.
Yeah, you know, I'm just NO.
Is also something that plays a critical role in erectile dysfunction.
You know, so many of the medicines that we use or over the counter pills now these days, they're boosting, NO, So they're boosting blood flow, not only penis but everywhere in the body.
6:17
So it's something that I get excited about when I see all the cellular processes that are moved forward by being exposed to red light.
And again, it's not important to me, you know, to double down again and again and again year after year, trying to prove it out for myself.
6:34
What I enjoy is I feel better when I stand in front of the panel in the morning.
My skin looks better.
I mean, my skin continues to look healthy.
I don't use any creams or lotions.
Once in a while I'll get a cream or something, but it's very rare.
I mean extremely rare over like years and years and years.
6:51
And that's kind of my go to for skin health.
Now if you look at the, we're going to talk about this topic, right?
Because my phone is listening, because my computer is listening, after we get off this podcast, I'm going to be targeted by Google retargeting ads by about 7:00 or yeah, seven or eight different red light companies.
7:12
So my other question that I get off in is people ask me, Freddie, what should I do?
What's a good panel?
I would like to ask you like, how are people looking at this market, which does have a lot of options?
How do we know what's good?
How do we know what's bad?
7:28
Yeah, that's a tough thing 'cause it's a stinking rabbit hole is what it is.
And it's paralysis by analysis, which we all get, hey, I get caught up in that on a $5 product on Amazon.
It gets ridiculous.
The problem is, is we don't know.
We don't know what we don't know.
7:45
So it's how do you make an educated decision on something that is so foreign to you?
And that just gets really, really difficult.
So like, I'm looking at solar panels.
My gosh, there's so much that goes into understanding solar panels before you even know what the right company is.
8:06
It's difficult.
It's difficult.
You know, all I can say is the great majority of my decisions that go into my panel on the science, which means I'm constantly evolving the device based on current science.
8:22
And a plethora of something may come out and say, hey, you know what, We may want to change the wavelength on this or we may want to change the percentages on this.
You know, so I base it on the science and I base it on what customers need.
8:38
So whether it's the wavelengths or the pulsing or having a wider panel that actually covers the body.
So it's gets very difficult for a consumer to figure out what am I trying to fix?
What's my disorder or what do I want to accomplish with light is the first thing because that could totally depend.
8:57
I could be wanting to get something big like this.
I could be wanting to get something small like this.
Then it comes down to what's my budget?
What's the customer service like?
What's the warranty like?
Can I call someone to say, hey, where do I actually put this on the body?
9:14
Is there any kind of groups that you can go to and talk to about this?
So there's so many factors that go into what company am I going to go with?
It gets difficult.
Yeah.
So how would you decide like if you were, you know, again, if you were to like wipe away everything that you know, I mean, what would you be looking for with your understanding red light?
9:32
So the biggest thing I'm going to look for is a panel that has greater amounts of near infrared.
That's one of the baffling things that I don't get with light is all the panels, because one company came out with it initially and then everyone copied them.
Most panels on the market have 50% of the energy is dedicated to red, 50% to near infrared.
9:55
It doesn't make any sense.
Near infrared penetrates skin deep.
It only takes a couple minutes to penetrate that far, and that's as far as red's going to go.
It's not going to go past the hemoglobin, all right?
That's where it gets absorbed.
Near infrared penetrates significantly further into the muscle, the joints, the bones, the brain, the organs.
10:18
But that takes a lot longer to penetrate deep into the body.
So why would I put the same amount of power in red as I do near infrared, Potentially to the point where by the time I'm done doing a session in front of a panel, I've gotten 4 times more red light than my cells actually need.
10:41
Now we get into a kind of tricky area of am I overdoing it?
Am I putting too much light on my skin?
Am I getting to the point where it's kind of like watering a potted plant where I have just, I put way too much water on and now things are drowning?
10:57
Or am I just creating too much?
You know, I'm standing in front of the light for so long and then there's a lot of heat build up and that's causing issues as well.
So I think that's the first thing I would look for is something that has a dominance of near infrared light for deeper penetration.
11:13
Yeah.
So to recap, the near infrared is muscles, joints, tissue, where the red is just a skin deep situation and so on.
The panels at light path LED.
What is the split?
What's the ratio?
66% is near infrared, 33% is red.
11:31
So the the goal is, is when you've got it do a full session, you're getting the right amount of red, you're getting the right amount of near infrared.
Yeah, that.
No, that's clear.
That's clear.
You mentioned a couple terms.
You said within the market people will talk about wavelength is a marketing term and then they'll talk about pulsing or pulse rate.
11:55
Why are those important?
And again, what do we want for a wavelength?
What do we want for an option of pulsing red light?
Yeah, let's do wave first.
Sure.
So when I say red, we're talking about wavelengths of light.
So Roy B give or Roy G biv.
12:12
I got to go through that again.
Roy G Biv.
Thank you.
So that's a visible spectrum.
So that's 600 to 700 nanometers, billionths of a meter.
Now we go near infrared and that's going to be 800 to just slightly below 1200 nanometers.
12:30
So those are wavelengths.
So near infrared is just beyond the visible spectrum.
If we had near infrared goggles, we could see those or like a cell phone, we can see those as well.
Wavelength is the most important factor with penetration beyond power, the power of it, beyond the pulsing of it, the wavelength is the most important thing.
12:58
So within the red spectrum, we know it's going skin deep.
We know anything basically in that 600 to 700 is doing relatively the same job.
Research hasn't come out and said, hey, 620 or 670 is the best.
13:14
It's so much better than 640 or 650.
And let's remember, LED isn't exact.
If I have a 660 wavelength, which is very common, that's covering 15 on the bottom.
So it's now 645 coming up to 660 and then going down to about 675.
13:36
So it's covering quite a range.
So it's not exact anyway, when we get into the near infrared, there's a couple wavelengths that have shown really good for say brain health and inflammation. 810 has probably the most research, even though most companies go with an 850.
13:55
I think it's just it's easier to get, it's a little less expensive.
And then there's some newer research on 1070 as well.
So they're starting to find more specific wavelengths that may tend to have a slight benefit over others.
14:13
That makes sense to me.
That makes sense in, you know, again in your experience like you are aware of the sciences out there.
What do you think are the important ones that you would want to see included in a panel based on the available research today?
Yeah, well, I've got 810 in mind.
All mine is 810.
14:29
My previous model had eight, 10859 thirty.
But there was just so much good research focused on 810 that was like, there's no reason for me to have 5 wavelengths or three specifically in that near and for it.
14:46
So I got rid of the 850, the 9:30 and I put it all to the 810 now because red we're not exact on, I'm going to cover my bases and do a lower red and a higher red.
So when you hear companies are like, hey, we've got 7 wavelengths, you know, next they're going to have 20 wavelengths.
15:05
It gets to be ridiculous.
Like the razors, they started off with one blade, now they've got 5 blades and it just gets to be a little bit of marketing overkill because we always think more is better.
Yeah.
More importantly is to have what's better.
15:24
Yeah, 100 percent, 100%.
I would junior would be there.
And then let's just have a small conversation around the pulse rate or pulsing because this is definitely an option.
Not all companies have a pulse.
You know the panel that I'm looking at right over here in the corner of the room, I've got a light path LED diesel, much like the one that's behind you.
15:43
I can pulse I think anywhere from zero to 10,000 Hertz.
So I've got options there and there's a little touch pad.
You know, I again listen to Andrew Huberman.
He says 40 Hertz.
It's great science around it.
Everybody's listened to Professor Hubes.
So I'll pulse that 40 Hertz in the morning and I do I do notice a cognitive shift or we can do 10 Hertz to down regulate a little bit.
16:05
Again, I can go anywhere from zero to 10,000.
There's different frequencies.
I think it's the nogier frequencies in nogier French scientist who programmed those looking at a lot of research around animals and pets showing beneficial ratios and pulse rates that would help different tissues or different organ systems.
16:23
You know, we get out there and not woo woo, but definitely not, it's not a conversation.
Everybody joins in is having benefit.
But there are definitely people within the veterinarian community where they're working with animals with no placebo effect and they do see benefit in an animal.
16:39
So tell me about pulse rate, why it's important, And if you could pick a couple that you would definitely want to have in a panel, you know, what would they be?
Sure.
So pulsing, so people understand it is simply the on and off of light, but it's very specific.
Meaning if I say 40 Hertz is turning on and off 40 times a second, and each time it turns on is 50% of a second.
17:06
So it's very exact as opposed to just kind of random, like you're going to your light switch in your house and you're just turning it on and off.
So it's very, very specific.
So what they found is that particularly when you say 40 is my favorite, 40 has been shown to help cognitive function.
17:26
Now it's doing it in a couple ways.
It can be done.
The forehead base of the skull, a lot of it though is through the eyes.
The way that we read light, no different than, you know, we go out into the sun and we see blue light and that decreases our melatonin, increases our serotonin.
17:48
Pulsing light on 40 Hertz is what we call gamma.
So we have all these brain wavelengths that are acting in in the four quadrants of our brain.
That gamble is more of that alert active state and people dealing with certain disorders like Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson's, their brain wavelengths are skewed.
18:10
They're a little bit too low in some areas, a little bit too high in some areas.
So with visible light, you can actually do brain entrainment and see brain wavelengths elevate.
So that's why I think 40 Hertz in the morning.
18:26
So pulsing 40 times red and near infrared light, eyes closed is so beneficial.
Particularly, you know, we start adding get into blue, blue light for people like me up in the north that deal with, you know, the seasonal affective disorder.
18:44
Yeah, yeah.
And so again, on the panel that you build, which is again, we should say you have multiple panels, but your premier, I'd say your premier series like the high end is called the diesel series and you have a an option to do zero to 10,000 Hertz.
19:01
There are certain pulse rates that are already programmed into the tablet.
Why are those pre programmed presets in there right now?
Yeah.
So a lot of it's just be able to be ease of use with it so that you can just go through them and and select what's going to be right for your condition.
19:18
So I think like 40 and 10 have been the most researched. 2.5 has some good research as well.
We get into the higher numbers, there's less research on that because science, they haven't quite gotten to that point of pinpointing things.
So they'll use an obvious number like 1000 or 5000 or 8000 or 10,000.
19:40
And it's amazing you're having positive results.
So there are some positive research on some of the Noje frequencies of 73, the 292 to 294 range for eye health.
So with a lot of these things, we're jumping a little bit ahead of the research, but we know it's coming.
20:01
So the goal is for someone that's using this, what I recommend to them is make life simple.
You're not going to use all 10 pulses.
Pick the 40 because that's so good in the morning.
Pick a higher one that you know, 587-1174.
That's good for organs, it's good for lymphatics, and you're getting the benefits of a high pulse.
20:20
You're getting the benefits of a low pulse as well now.
And posting has been around 30 years.
I was the first one to put pulsing in a panel, but I didn't, you know, I'm not reinventing the wheel.
You know that it's been around in pad systems and lasers and and torches and there's a lot of people that my mentors that I lean on that have been doing these pulsings, pulses and, and the clinical setting with real positive outcomes.
20:51
Amazing, amazing.
I know.
I I definitely appreciate the option.
And again, I like the option that when new research comes forward, there's a great recipe of endless frequencies that I can play around with on the on the piano.
I mean, yeah, we should put a little keyboard on it, just be able to, like, play a musical song throughout the frequencies.
21:10
I think that's a good idea, right.
Well, I mean, I the sound is so important as well.
Yeah, you know, so we know all the benefits with certain frequencies of sound and how that can benefit.
So interestingly enough that you bring that up like 40 Hertz sound is also beneficial for brain health.
21:31
So they're starting to get the bigger picture of, you know, vibration frequency, energy lights and it's they're starting just to get a hold of it a little bit better.
21:47
Yeah, You know, again, going through all this information, for some people, it's going to be I know this, I I know all this.
This is for me, even being in the space this long and understanding it's I'm always relearning, I'm always remembering, oh, that's a great, that's a great thing to do team.
25:27
When we talk about the nature of and we're not being prescriptive here, but if you were to give a guideline, a personal guideline, you're like, Freddie, here's how much if I gave the advice to myself that I would have best friend.
How much should you be in front of the panel?
How many times a week?
25:42
How how many minutes?
Is there a a scope you like to reference?
Yeah, I think at least three times a week, you know, and we're talking per body area.
So, you know, like the panel behind me that's going to get my whole upper body.
25:58
It's going to get from my testicles to the top of my head.
I can do that on Monday, and then on Tuesday, if I wanted to get my legs, I could get my legs on Tuesday so I'm not in front of it as long I don't have to get the whole body every single day.
Now, it also just depends on what your body is needing.
26:16
You know, someone who is an everyday athlete could be doing this every single day.
Someone Like You know me who's playing the, you know, the pickleball and the occasional pickup basketball.
I can probably get away with it with three times a week.
26:32
Now, being upstate and it's cold and it's raining, I use it almost every single morning because I've got the blue light in it as well.
And that blue is great because it mimics the sunlight and helps the body to decrease the melatonin, increase the serotonin, pulls it at 40 so you're more alert, helps to balance your circadian rhythm as well so that you can sleep better.
26:57
So a lot of people have seen benefit dealing with, you know, the winter Blues.
Yeah, let's talk about it.
It's a great segue because we've been talking about red light and now you're saying you have a panel with blue light.
Is that a different panel?
And why do people incorporate blue light?
Because if I again, if I'm listening to some of my favorite podcasters in the space, everybody is now telling me to wear these amber tinted or tinted glasses to limit my blue light exposure from my phone for my computer, especially later hours in the day.
27:25
So explain to me why we would be doing a therapeutic blue light or why that may be therapeutic?
Yeah, you know, I mean, unfortunately, blue light gets a really bad name, which I get because anything you read about blue is like, hey, it's bad for you.
You know, it's gonna mess you up.
But you walk out every day and what do you see?
27:42
You see blue.
You see blue skies.
You see Blue Mountains off on the distance.
Why is that?
Blue is the second most popular wavelength from the sun, right after green.
But it hits the atmosphere in scatter.
So that's why we see blue and everything.
We wouldn't evolve over millions of years for blue to be bad for us.
28:05
But it's like UV, we need UVB, we just don't need so much of it.
So the issue with blue is not the blue, it's when.
So most of the households have changed from the incandescent, which was very, very similar to the wavelengths of sun, to LED house bulbs, which, although it still looks white, has a ton more blue in it.
28:32
So the blue through the eyes triggers the brain to say it's daytime, wake the hell up.
So it decreases the melatonin, increases the serotonin.
So in the evening, you got these lights on your front of your computer screen.
You're watching TV, you're looking at your phone.
28:49
That's going to make sleep difficult.
You're not going to get deep sleep.
You're not going to get your R.E.M, You're not going to have a balanced circadian rhythm.
And then let's just talk about all the issues that come along with not getting sleep.
That's really the issue with the blue.
29:05
And what I mean by blue is too much of it at the wrong time of the day.
That's the issue.
Blue in the morning is essential.
Blue at night is a problem.
Yeah, and I'm assuming there's some good research around this.
There's a lot of research on it.
29:21
And just think about all the years that we've had SAD devices, seasonal affective disorder devices.
They look like a white screen, but when you when you Add all the colors in together, it turns white.
Like if you add a bunch of paint together, it turns brown.
29:37
Those devices have a lot of blue in them for that reason.
So yeah, we've got great research on blue, not just for skin, for hair, but for cognitive functions as well, as well as all the things we just talked about, about melatonin and serotonin and circadian rhythm.
29:59
So yeah, tons of research on it.
Yeah, talk to me a little bit about the antimicrobial effects of blue light because I was amazed to see some of the articles and studies looking at treatment of acne.
Now, I know red light therapy can be great for the skin, but I've seen a lot of interesting research around especially cystic acne, and really that propensity, the blue can go in there and it can neutralize microbes.
30:25
What's happening?
Yeah.
So what blue now blue penetrates very little less than red.
So blue does not penetrate very far.
So people ask, well, what have I got in a deep infection in the gut or something like that, Blue is not going to help you out, but on the skin they can be very beneficial.
30:43
What is doing it?
It actually gets absorbed by basically the fecal matter of the bacteria creates excessive reactive oxygen species, which then kills the bacteria.
30:59
So we combine that with the healing effects of the red and the near infrared.
And so now we get really good benefits with acne, psoriasis, eczema, any kind of things like bed sores, any kind of like fungal infections, things like that can all be benefited by having that blue light.
31:24
But I always say blue light by itself.
You're leaving stuff on the table.
Always combine the blue with the red and the near infrared so you get all those great healing benefits as well.
Yeah, so I'm hearing you say all this stuff about blue light.
31:40
You know, it's cloudy out here.
We haven't had the sun in like even like 5 days in Austin.
It's very, very dreary.
Now I'm like, OK, now I need to go buy a blue light.
Is it possible to get a blue and a red panel in a combo?
So the combo is all three.
So you have blue, you have red and you have near infrared.
32:00
So when I when I talked about the percentages of 66% near infrared.
Yes. 33 red, that's in a red and near infrared, our regular panel.
Then we have the combo series, which is 50% near infrared, 25% red, 25% blue.
32:19
Great.
Good to know.
I'm just jotting down these percentages, 5020, five, 2550% near infrared.
So we still got that depth of penetration for the deeper tissues.
And then we've got this healing combo, which is the red and the blue for that therapeutic effect.
And is that every panel or is that just the Diesel series?
32:37
Just the diesel.
The diesel just.
The diesel.
The the torch.
So when we talk about light, you see how that I don't know why you see it, but it has a purple color to it yes, that's just the red and the blue mixing together.
This also has a near infrared.
Now that's the red and near and afraid if I click it one more, you're not going to see the difference, but it's red alone.
32:57
And then if I hold it down, just so people get an idea, that's the pulsing.
Great.
So if anybody listens to this on Spotify or Apple in your car, Scott held up basically what looks like a handheld flashlight and there's a button on the side.
We could change the spectrum from that combo, blue red to a red to a pulsing red.
33:15
Correct.
Awesome.
Yeah, it's so interesting all the ways we can use these tools.
You know, when we're talking about red light, near infrared, now we have pulse rate, we've got full body panels, we got handheld torches.
Again, if you were to say I'm going to pick up my magic wand, I would say this would be if you could pick one system to have in the household for the family, what would you tell people to get?
33:42
I'd be doing something like what's behind me?
And you can also stack these up, which is everyone's going to be different on that one.
Me personally, I like to be able to sit in front of the light.
I like to do my morning Wim Hof breath work because that helps wake me up as well.
33:57
I got my coffee as well.
That helps out as well.
That's good for us.
Someone else may want to stand up in front and get these things stacked up.
They may want to sandwich themselves front and back and get their whole body.
The question comes down to, do we want localized treatment?
34:16
Do we want systemic treatment?
A big panel like this, we're going to get systemic.
That's really beneficial.
But if someone came to me and they said, hey, I twisted my ankle, that's my concern.
34:33
I wouldn't recommend that.
I'd recommend this because now I can do some easy localized treatment on the ankle.
I can use torch to hit the lymph node in the back of the knee, in the front of the groin to get the systems, basically the highways, the pathways that lead to healing.
34:55
So even though I'm using a little guy, I'm still getting some systemic benefits by where I place it.
So it does really depend on, and we have people like you, you travel all the time, you love your big panels, but you're not putting that in the suitcase.
35:15
No, no, I got to.
I got to bring the torch.
That's my go to.
Right.
So everyone is going to be different on their situation, their logistics, their budget as well.
I may have someone that I'd like them to get the big panel, but they can't afford that.
All right, let's get something smaller and let me help you on where to focus that light so you can get both that good localized treatment and get a systemic effect.
35:38
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's, you know, and I, I talked to a lot of clinics and most of the time people IA lot of people are using it as a consumer tool and I think it splits both ways, right.
But when I'm talking to a clinic and they're like Freddy, what do I get?
I'm like, you're going to get 2 diesel stack stands and to be safe for somebody over 6 foot tall, you're going to get 2 diesel XLS stack stand on a rolling platform.
36:01
You're going to have two of those.
So we can do front and back of the body.
We can minimize treatment time.
People are in and out and, and what, 10 minutes?
You don't have to flip side.
So you're getting more people through ball parking.
What am I talking about for it's 6 grand for two stack stands and, and rolling?
36:17
Is it somewhere around there?
Somewhere around there, yes.
Yeah, yeah, ballparky, ballparky, right.
You know, I mean, and compared to compared to some of the red light beds, you know, the red light bed that was referenced on Joe Rogan is, is 130 five, $145,000.
36:35
We're talking arguably a more powerful light, more pulse rates, systemic full body treatment, 10 minutes for 6K.
And you can't argue that.
You can't say one light is better.
You can say it's more comfortable to lay down certainly, right?
36:50
You know, these are I, I and I don't want to throw.
I'm not trying to throw a company under the bed because believe me, it's great to lay in a red light bed.
When you had your treatment center.
I loved laying in that thing that was amazing.
But what did your bed cost you when you had a red light therapy treatment center?
Too much.
Too much feel like I don't want to say. 65. 65K So you know again, if we're just looking at clinics and centers or anybody out there that's running a Wellness business, I understand there's a clientele that is going to want to lay down.
37:22
They are 100% and there is something to saying my nervous system is flat.
My sympathetic Dr. is let go because I'm flat on a table.
There's a way to do that with some of these panel systems.
You can get a standing stand that allows them to go horizontal.
37:39
You can roll it over massage table.
So then what are you at?
You know, I'm not sure what a horizontal stand costs, but my Sierra tables that I love are $200.
You know, I'm still at a very, very affordable price point.
Yeah.
So you know the horizontal stand that can hold a couple panels is right around a little bit over 300. 300 bucks?
38:01
Yep, that's about right.
That's great, that's great, And then again for my home user.
Again, I'm frugal.
However, I'd rather buy 1 panel in the next 5 to 10 years than I would decide that.
Wow.
This one doesn't have the pulse rates, this one doesn't have the power.
38:18
This one's too skinny.
The setup I have is a Diesel XL and a Shorty that's 6 foot tall and that's plenty high enough for me.
It's on a rolling stand, you know, and that's more like the $3000 range.
So there's options here for people.
38:35
And again, I think if the whole family's using it, I was like, if the whole family's using it, you got five people using it.
You know, you're taking the price of the product and you're cutting it by a fifth.
And then you're taking out travel time that you would go to a biohacking center, You're taking out a travel time that you would go to a spa.
38:51
And you're actually it's something you're going to do.
Hopefully you're going to do it if you pay for it to be in your home.
And I do like the fact that this is on a rolling stand.
It's so funny.
It's just got cold here.
So I'm kind of toying around the idea.
I'm like, I could roll it into the bedroom.
I don't have to suffer out here and 45° in the morning, You know, I got a space heater, but you know, that's that's an option that I can move it.
39:14
What are your thoughts on that?
As far as like you have a rolling stand, you have a horizontal stand, but you also have a wall mount that you can put it on a wall.
Is there 1 you tend to favor?
Depends on the situation.
Like if someone said to me, hey, I want to put it here, this is where I'm going to use whether it's a Wellness Center or someone at their house.
39:35
And I say, is it going to stay there forever?
And they say, yes, I say go with the wall mount.
It's just easier for Wellness Center.
It looks better.
It saves room than to have the legs of a stand.
If they've got a couple rooms and they want to be able to move it from one room to another, then now we're doing the stacked stand.
39:55
And again, like for me, I'm sitting down right now.
I just have a small floor stand with this one so I can sit in front of it and just grab it and move it right towards me.
And that works perfect for me.
Yeah, Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I want to do some quick fire questions that I since the last time we talked.
40:15
I know that you have taken the company through FDA clearance, so you registered or cleared some devices through the FDA.
Can we talk a little bit about what that means, what they're cleared for?
Why did you do that?
Yeah, You know, I mean, FDA here's what gets again, you get caught in the weeds.
40:32
What does this FDA like?
What is FDA approval?
People ask me what is FDA, is your panels FDA approved and there's no such thing.
These are considered Wellness devices.
So they get what we call FDA registered or FDA cleared.
40:47
I think that could go either way.
That just means that the FDA knows you exist.
So there's a lot of jargon around that and I think unfortunately some companies will maybe twist the truth a little bit and make a sound as if like they gave the FDA their device and FDA tested it out and, and now it's good for all of this other stuff.
41:10
You know, light is FDA cleared for a few things.
It's for neuropathy, it's for pain, it's for inflammation.
All right, now we know it does all these other things because we've got over 10,000 research studies done on it in the last 30 years, but that's what the FDA will state that any red light therapy or photobiomodulation will cover.
41:39
Yeah, it's great.
One of the most common questions I see online is I see people in the ads looking directly at the red light.
I heard that was bad.
Why doesn't that person have goggles?
You see that in a lot of the Google retargeting ads from every different company across the board.
41:54
So why do people wear goggles?
Why do they not?
I know you're not going to tell people to do it or not to do it.
What are your thoughts on the goggles when using red light therapy panels?
I mean, I don't care.
I'll tell them not to.
I don't have a problem with that at all.
You know, I think before LED lights like this, there were lasers.
42:14
They're still being used.
Lasers are great, but they're used in professional hands.
They're going to do the same thing as what I've got, but they can have greater power so they can do it in a shorter amount of time, which makes sense in a clinical setting.
When we've got specific type issues, like say someone just went through a rotator cuff surgery or a hip replacement or something like that, or at a veterinarian office when the dog has hip dysplasia or whatever else.
42:45
Lasers, you don't want to be pointing anywhere near the eye because it's too focused of energy can cause damage to the retina.
So I think there's just a lag in education on that.
Now, the lights behind me, if I turn them right on, they're super bright all right.
43:01
But our body knows when we walk out in the middle of the day, we're not going to go look up at the sun and keep our eyes open.
We have a quarter second where our eyes will shut or will turn our head.
So the same thing is with light, if it's too bright then that can strain the eyes, which isn't healthy, but light in general is amazingly healthy for the eyes, healthy for the brain.
43:28
So age-related macular degeneration, glaucoma, even new studies coming out and showing increased sight for, you know, contrast.
I think 1720% better vision for people.
43:45
And I get, I get some good anecdotal stuff from people saying, hey, I got the light last year for face for something else, but they go to their eye doctor and the eye doctor's testing your vision has actually improved over the last year, which is great to hear.
44:00
But we've got the research to go.
Here's why.
When we talk about mitochondria, you know, there's different amounts of mitochondria in different cells.
So our muscle cells, our bone cells, our brain cells, eye cells have the most mitochondria out of anything, any other cell in the body.
44:19
And it makes sense because it has to be producing so much energy to do the activity of being able to see and read and get all the information that's coming at us.
So those eye issues are a mitochondrial dysfunction or an inflammatory component is involved.
44:40
So light is hugely beneficial.
So I tell people, close your eyes.
It's a very thin eyelid, light's going to pass through that, no problem.
And that's all you got to worry about.
If you're straining too much or you have photosensitivity type issues, you just got done with cataract surgery.
44:59
Now the goggles come in place.
Yep, yeah, I was just going to say we just doing a quick little search, You know, we talked about the areas that are most mitochondrial dense have big energy demands.
So a photoreceptor in the retina, specifically the cones and the rods, they require this vast amount of energy for the process of phototransduction.
45:20
It's converting light into an electrical signal into the brain is information.
It's really wild how we really do work like kind of like a supercomputer.
Yeah.
And it it's funny, when you get too much light in your system, like too much red light, your body starts reading it as different colors because your rods and cones get saturated with a certain light.
45:39
So it's how the body works.
It's our perception of seeing color and how our body reads wavelengths that are coming off of a wall or the computer or a bench or whatever else.
45:56
And it's just the way our brain reads it.
Yeah, yeah.
Just to close up, Scott, just to make the most of our quick little recap here on Red Light.
I always tell people, if you are in the world of Wellness and you want an upgrade and you don't want to think too much about it, just get a full body red panel and start using it a few times a week.
46:16
And it's an insurance policy on skin quality.
It's adding extra energy to a system which needs energy to heal, to curate a robust immune system for circulation, for anti aging, for joint pain.
I could go on and on and on and on.
46:32
And it's not a crazy investment really and truly to get a full body system.
Now where I remember when you know the biggest company in the market was it was 10 grand and you had to stack 4 panels together.
Now we're to a place where it's like, you know, under 3000 bucks, right around 3 grand, you can have a full body red light system that it's going to last you because I know you're humble about the product and the company, but you know, I'll do it for you.
46:59
It's a five year warranty on the panel.
Nobody else is going to do that for you period.
It's like molded and iron thing feels like it's indestructible and it's it's great service to great community.
And I just want to give a shout out.
It's red light therapy for beginners on Facebook.
47:15
Correct.
Yeah, there's and there's thousands and thousands of users and they're asking the very simple, basic questions every day.
And the reality is you're always very kind, generous with your time.
You answer the same basic questions, which maybe sometimes you want to bang your head through a wall, but it's a great spot and it's something I witness you not push your own panel.
47:34
You say, look, here's what everything does.
You know, it's we're always innovating.
Everybody's trying to innovating, but a lot of the information I think that we're, we're learning about different pulse rates and irradiance and near to a red spectrum ratios.
47:49
Some of its marketing, right?
Some of its marketing.
They're all doing a pretty good job.
For me, it's like tech fails, tech will break, period.
It will happen.
What are you going to do when it breaks?
You either got a great warranty or you know, you got a good support system around that.
48:06
So for me, those are big priority buying points, especially on products that I had stand behind.
I don't know if there's anything you want to add to that as far as somebody might hear the podcast and they're kind of on the fence and they don't know where to go.
What would you say?
Yeah.
I mean, there's some things where simple is better.
48:21
Like I'm starting to see a couple things we already talked about, you know, companies promoting these multiple wavelengths, which is marketing.
Unfortunately, we're seeing a lot coming out with these recipes like hit this button for fat loss, hit this button for wrinkles.
48:39
And again, it sounds really nice.
It sounds like, oh, this is going to make my life easy.
I can just hit this button this.
But that's just not how light works.
All we want to do with light is saturate as many cells as we can.
End of story.
The body will do what it's supposed to do with that extra energy.
48:56
That's right.
There's no wavelength coming out of this going.
I'm going after that fat, you know, or I'm going after that fine line or those, you know, the crow's feet.
It doesn't work that way.
So I tell people, just don't get caught up in the hype of that.
Find that company that you know what is going to help you through the process, not just help you until you hand over, you know, the money.
49:19
I think that's the biggest and we get a lot of people in the group being like, hey, I bought this.
I don't know how to use it.
The directions are poor, I don't know what's and it's sad.
People are struggling, They're dealing with serious issues and a lot of times it's things like brain fog and they just can't focus on reading 20 pages of manuals or this.
49:39
They just need someone to help them out.
So, you know, do the due diligence to find the company that can support the product and then go with that.
Yep, I love it.
I love it.
Well, let's close it down for there.
As always, people can use code beautifully broken.
If you want to get a discount on light path LED, it's a great site.
49:57
They've got a lot of offerings on the site anywhere from a more affordable series to the obviously we talked up the diesel series, which I just say, look, if you're going to do it, do it go on.
And that's just my that's my like core message to everybody.
If you're going to invest, just do the good one.
50:13
Do the big panel people never going to regret going too big and the service support warranty.
It's great.
Have so many people in my community just love it and excited to watch you grow and expand and and I'm excited to see, you know, what's next.
50:29
If there's anything else you launch in 2025, I'm sure we'll have a conversation about it.
If you do, if you had a magic wand, you could say, oh man, I really would love to invent this.
Is there anything you're just kind of like it's kind of scratching on your brain that you can give away.
If not, if it's a company secret, then don't feel obliged.
50:45
Yeah, You know, I've been working on a couple things.
One thing I've been working on for TMJ issues, temporal mandibular joint dysfunction.
But I've been working on that for three years and it's a headache now.
I'm working on a cap as well for people dealing with like hair loss type issues post COVID, a lot of issues as well.
51:04
I've got something else that I'm working on with the panel that it's still going to take a long time.
Like, you know, we always wanted to invent something and have it ready tomorrow and it can take one 2-3 years to do that.
So with like the panel I'm working on, it's still going to take at least probably 1824 months before it's ready, but where it includes breath work and it includes sound as well.
51:32
So we're hitting it all at once.
So those are the things I'm always working on, things.
Some of them were, some of them don't, but that's part of life.
Yeah, awesome, awesome.
Well, listen, I appreciate you always great conversation.
I'm reinvigorated to go recommend although I've been really good this week I I noticed when the sun goes down and it's chilly in the morning and there is no morning sunlight cause of overcast nature in the clouds.
51:58
I am so much more inclined to go do my red light therapy.
And if anybody has any questions please reach out.
Give us some love and we'll see you on the next one.
Big love all.
Right.
Take care, Freddie.
Take care ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning in.
52:15
If you enjoyed today's show, head over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and please leave us a review five stars if you loved it and before you leave, there is one big way you can continue the learning and the deepening of this relationship we started in this very episode.
52:33
You can go to beautifully broken dot world and check out our brand new website store.
Listed are all the Wellness technologies, the supplements, the educational courses that I love and I personally use.
Most of them offer significant in discounts just by using the link or the discount code, which is normally beautifully broken and they do support the podcast through affiliations.
53:00
Now we have a brand new feature.
If you want to see the beautiful faces of our guests and watch me unbox and review products, you can head over to our new YouTube channel, Beautifully Broken World.
I do have to tell you, our Only Fans page is under construction, so stand by for that.
53:21
This last announcement is from my vast team of Internet lawyers.
The information on this podcast is for educational purposes only.
By listening, you agree not to use the information found here as medical advice to treat any medical condition in yourself or others.
53:37
And you're always going to consult your physician for any medical issues that you may be having.
My closing.
The world is shifting.
We need you at your very best.
So please take the steps to always be upgrading.
Remember, while life can be painful, putting the pieces back together is a beautiful process.
53:57
I love you.
I'm your host, Freddie Kimmel.
Big love.