Flowpresso: The Lymphatic Reset with Desiree Despong – Heat Therapy, Compression, and Daily Detox

WELCOME TO EPISODE 239

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

0:06
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Beautifully Broken Podcast.
I'm here with our lovely guest, Desiree Desbong.
How you doing?
Good.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Are you excited to be in America again?
Yeah, I've had a great couple of weeks already, couple of conferences and hang out with awesome people in Austin.
0:22
What could you want more?
What could you want?
So our episode was 183.
Wow and how many you done since?
I think this week, I mean, whenever this one comes out, I want to say we're like 236 now.
I know.
Yeah.
They, they really.
It flies by.
0:38
It's wild.
Yeah, it's wild.
And I know that because I've shared it so many times.
It's one of my most shared episodes because I am in the world of very much immersed in the world of Flopresso these days.
And I thought it would be nice for us to revisit because I've learned so much and I've met so many people and met so many clinics that use the system.
0:57
Now, I'd love to start out with just a recap and if you could tell us why you decided to bring Flopresso from an idea into a physical device?
Sure, so there was a number of reasons who inspired me was a doctor called Doctor Drobot who is in the American Centre for Biological Medicine.
1:16
I was teaching in the US and he came up to me one day and said can't you just make something for us?
Because I think it's quite a reality and it's this is worldwide that, you know, there is a real shortage of lymphatic drainage therapists as an experts in the field, a lot of people get like a weekend workshop, but I'm working those that have done intensive training.
1:35
So, you know, it's not easy to have one or the ones that are available are usually so booked up that people can't have access to.
So I think his focus was more that something he could have in clinic that he could rely on was there all the time and then it would be able to support their biological medicine approach.
1:53
That's probably, you know what inspired.
But if I step back a bit, my 20 years of working in the lymphatics, it's been a lot to do with cancer.
And you know, you start to see the magic drain lymphatics does on their recovery or on their journey.
And it even, you know, I saw it over time lengthened the time that they were to be here.
2:13
If it was stage 4, for example, like it gave them more quality, for want of a better word.
And I just saw that that was something, it was a game changer.
But one of the things that I did recognize was that when we do lymphatic drainage, how they go into this deep parasympathetic state and we all know that's the magical place to heal.
2:29
That was the, those were the kind of reasons that forced me, which, you know, it was a kind of force because I had no idea how to do Med tech.
It's kind of funny when you think about it, but I just spent the time a little bit like a mad scientist in a basement working out what was there, what wasn't.
It was incredibly important for me, having been in the industry for so long that the sequential aspect of it was mimicking what the lymphatics does.
2:52
And I think, you know, we've been overwhelmed what I have been by the amount of experts in the field saying this is the closest they've ever seen to what they think it would be like.
And I mean, that's very humbling to hear that.
I mean, we were only there on the weekend, right?
We had people saying we've done every sort of compression that there exists and this is the best, the game changer because it really is trying to a support lymphatic function and work with the body in the way it pumps.
3:18
But also, I think being that heat wrapped and held and being able to go into that somatic, having that somatic experience and going into that deep parasympathetic is just what's really made the whole technology profound.
And you know, I'm incredibly proud to be the guardian of this product.
3:37
You know, I do feel that, you know, when you think otherwise, it loses its special aspect of it.
So I always just consider myself a guardian as you are and your delivery of selling it.
And we all play a role in making a difference for others to feel better.
Yeah, yeah, I, I'm, you know, I'm hearing you say that it's a technology that it solves the, the lack of like equality across different therapists.
4:05
Like there's a standardization and which is an area where there's scarcity for manual drainage therapists.
And then there's wildly different, as I've learned techniques and trainings.
You know, one of the ones that gets thrown out a lot is like, we'll never do lymphatic drainage if you have cancer because you'll spread your cancer around.
4:24
So I'd love to just answer that one first as I bookmark.
And then what?
We'll go back into this, what Flopresso solves.
So that's something I was taught to and it was an old, very old reference in a medical journal.
But subsequently, since there's been so much research to show otherwise, and I've set in lymphology conferences with some of the top lymphologists in the world, including people like Stanley Roxon here in the US, And it's a question every lymphatic therapist still asks today to be assured, does it spread cancer?
4:55
And they say no because we all, as you know, have cancer cells.
So just the fact that I move my arm is moving cancer cells.
Let's let's spread our.
Cancer, you know, let's just, you know, this is what happens.
And so now if if someone was doing a deep tissue therapy on a tumor site or on a lymphoma area or something like that, yes, absolutely something could adverse happen.
5:19
But when you're dealing with lymphatic drainage, it's more of a hug a holder.
It's a soft butterfly technique if you're using your hands.
So, you know, we're not doing much more than what the body is already doing.
I mean, we're probably doing less than a workout, you know, in the gym, getting in amongst, you know, weights and stuff.
5:35
So I do struggle with why it's even still in the ether of discussion, because, you know, it doesn't make any sense, nor have I seen any substantial research to show otherwise.
Yeah, you know, and in my in my like embodied education of lymphatics, having my cancer spread to my lymphatic system, I'd said the only time it was ever mentioned to me was how unfortunate your cancer went there.
6:00
Nobody had the conversation.
Well, Freddie, within those lymph nodes is all your NK killer cells that are.
We want them to Rove around the body, we want them to proliferate tissue.
We want flow within that lymphatic system and we certainly don't want it burdened up with environmental toxicants and heavy metals and cellular waste.
6:19
You know, so the it's a.
It's a really interesting thread that doesn't seem to die.
No, yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's a fear, you know, it's the fear of the unknown.
And we do know, as you said, our cancer cells go into the lymph nodes.
6:34
But isn't that what their role is?
Like there are a hub, like you say, of activity.
You know, they've got the NK cells, which are your natural killer cells, which are so important for dealing with cancer.
But you know, you've got your T cells, your B cells, dendritic, You've got all this different activity.
6:50
It's like a power of immunity there.
So my thing's always been, wow, maybe it's containing it.
So it's not spreading through the bloodstream.
So I mean, my thing for me and my training and, and I just, and I always go back to my training is that it doesn't, you know, it doesn't make any sense why it would be considered spreading a cancer because you know, the reality when you're doing lymphatic drainage, that is because I mean, we're not doing anything that means their massage would spread cancer.
7:18
So why do we not stop massage happening?
I mean, in New Zealand, part of recovery for our, especially in our breast Cancer Support services, they offer an oncology massage which incorporates lymphatic or lymphedema therapy.
So, you know, for me it's like the touch alone is more powerful, you know, like, and when you're dealing with massage, you're in deeper than what you are with lymphatics.
7:41
So I cannot logically get my head around where the concern comes from, and all I can do is say that maybe it was part of a training or part of something that went back many years ago that's never been updated today.
Yeah, well, there's a lot of dogma within the allopathic model, which has been around for a long time.
8:01
And, you know, we could do a whole podcast on that.
But you know, I always tell people, look, if you want to, if you want to really look at a shocking data point, 20 to 60% of breast tissue biopsies seed cancer cells into the peripheral tissues.
And that's documented in Pub Med and NIH.
8:18
But we do that, you know, we're talking about a very, very gentle therapy that especially with Flopresso, it's like a warm hug.
So I've never understood it.
You know, I want to, I want to go back to that little bookmark.
And so it's, it's, it's standardizing the therapy, but then we're also adding in something that from my understanding, a manual drainage therapist cannot do.
8:39
And that is to move up the left and right sides of the body with bilateral pressure.
And the first time I said it to somebody, they're like, well, what's happening?
Well, what's really happening?
What is happening for?
And I was like, Oh my God, you know what's really happening?
You know, when there's no toothpaste left in the tube and you got to get both sides and you roll from the bottom.
8:57
And so I'd love if you could talk a little bit about how the suit mechanically is different than manual drainage.
Therapists would work because they'd work distal, they'd work proximal to distal, whereas the suit is coming from the bottom of the feet and it's this pressurized system which is under like this.
9:15
You know, again, a tube of toothpaste is under the principle.
It functions under the principle of fluid dynamics, right?
We push from the bottom and roll the fluid to the top and then we've got this drain up here.
So how is this different in a mechanical process then a manual drainage therapist would work on the body?
9:31
Yes.
So bringing back to what you said, you know practitioners do do proximal to distal and there's a reason for that.
You know we're literally when it comes to lymphatics, there's no pump and we're literally pushing fluid uphill.
So it really is not easy to open up and create.
9:46
So you know if I was doing manual drainage on you, I would not go down and start at your feet.
I would always start up at the terminus here because I want to open up pathways to create the sites to be available so, so I can move the fluid because I'm using a very delicate, gentle rhythmic therapy.
10:06
I'm not pushing like a tube of booster, you know, because you know, when you're toothpaste, using your analogy, you can't roll it out like you're using force.
So you're using the momentum to be able to get the fluid through.
And so from a lymphatic point of view, if we're doing manual drainage, we are doing it this particular way because we have to open up what I call all the dams, all the sites of the lymph nodes, the areas where the fluid is going to go so that we can actually achieve drainage.
10:32
Now with the suit, if we understand the mechanical aspect of how the lymphatic capillaries work is they are literally pushing fluid uphill.
They're going up through what they call monetral valves.
And so there's you've got your lymphatic capillaries and there's these valves like a dam that are opening and closing and surging up the body.
10:51
So I actually did try to do it proximal to distal A.
It felt awful that there had no, there was no rhythm to it.
It didn't feel comfortable at all and I never saw any difference for it.
Like I didn't see anything from a measurable point of view that could actually show me that it was better.
So I went back to what every other pneumatic compression pump does in the world, even if you're in hospital and they go upwards.
11:13
And so I went back to that process of doing that, but being very mindful that when you're dealing with compression, there's an overlap.
And you do see in other compression devices, especially the cheaper versions, they they'll have it almost, you'll see the cut sitting in between when the compression's inflated.
11:30
And that's dangerous because that means there's a gap between the initial compression and the second.
So imagine if I had my two hands and there's a gap in between.
So that fluid is going to sit and pull in that area if it's not dealt with correctly.
You can see it on like like a a cheaper suit or a lot of the compression gear there is like a stitched seam in the canvas, correct.
11:51
It goes around.
And so that's like bladder one.
Yeah, bladder 2 bladder 3.
So if we think about this idea of the overlap which does exist in a in a Flopresso system, that's that's the big difference.
Yeah.
And so when the that when the bladder is compressing into the actual the person's body, we have got it so that it literally has like if you can, you probably can't see this if you're on, you know, I'm not watching this on a video, but what I'm doing is I'm placing my lower finger over top of my upper finger and I'm actually showing that there's an overlap.
12:23
So the idea is that they overlap the whole time to create are pushed through.
So it's actually making the momentum and working through those lymphatic capillaries to be able to build fluid upwards and move it out and fluid from a lymphatic point of view, we're always trying to drain back up towards the heart or to the termini or terminus, which is above your collarbone so that you can actually maintain that momentum.
12:47
You met it, that's when you're going to meet it with the blood goes through the heart into the liver.
And then we obviously have our different ways of eliminating which is bowel, urine, breath or sweat.
Yeah, so explain that to just people who might hear this and they don't understand about the lymph you keep saying terminus or why, why do we want to push up to?
13:04
Here, so we call it like the terminal point, where does it meet?
So it's just above your collarbone.
So you know, just need the shoulder area.
And there's a, there's a collective group of lymph nodes there, but it's also where our left subclavian and right subclavian veins are meeting with the lymph.
13:20
So they're joining in, especially the thoracic duct.
So that's a think of a tube from about your belly button that runs up through to your left subclavian, which is on your left side that's meeting to the heart.
These are that's actually taking not only lymphatic fluid from pretty much the waist down, but it's also responsible for the fats and proteins that are in the small intestine.
13:39
So it's all about surging these fluids, both tissue fluid, but also these fats and proteins up to meet back to the heart.
And that's why we do require momentum.
And the nice thing is, as with massage, you're lying down South, you're allowing to.
13:56
So there's a lot now of everyone standing up and doing their lymphatic drainage, right?
And it's great because you're doing lymphatic drainage.
I really applaud everyone.
I've never seen so much Instagram posts on lymphatic drainage in my 20 years is what I've seen in the last three years.
So I'm like, yay, finally we're getting it out there that it's so important.
14:14
But do remember, if you're standing up, you're trying to push fluid uphill.
So lying down and doing it can be a lot more profound, especially if you're trying to make a difference in your legs.
And so that's where I go back to our manual drainage process is to be considered when you're not using something mechanical or has the ability like flow Prezzo to actually push and create momentum and work with the way the lymphatics actually functions and take the fluid back to the heart.
14:43
Yeah, that's a great, it's a great point.
And then the other, the other piece of technology that comes into Flopresso that would be different from a human being is this range of heat.
So we've got this 86 now it's 86° to 104 is Fahrenheit.
So why heat?
14:58
Why is it important in the technology and what does that serve or what does it add to the value proposition?
So within my clinic, I was observing things like, for example, lymphedema, where the tissue changes, it becomes fibrotic, becomes clammy and cold.
15:14
It's like, you know, it's like think of a pipe line that's got stuck and it's not moving anything and it's just, it becomes congealed, congested.
And in lymphology, like we would never encourage anyone with lymphedema to go into a sauna or a spa or anything.
So heat was always kind of an adverse consideration.
15:31
And I would still recommend that you do not do that.
But what I found was I started testing things like with hot stains and I'd be putting warmth into the arm or into the leg and I'd watch the tissue start to change and you'd put it under the kidneys right during this sessions through their abdominal work.
15:48
And you just watch them completely soften and let go.
And of course, when you're nourishing the warmth of the kidneys, if we're talking from an Eastern philosophy, it's actually helping the fluids move.
So not only, yes, from a urination point of view, but also to able to start stabilizing kidneys, balance fluid.
16:05
So I started to really test the theory with heat.
And then I kind of came to the realization, well, hang on, we're so quick to divide all our systems off.
You know, we've got the cardiologist for the heart.
You know, we've got the urologist just for the for the bladder and all those sorts of things.
But I was more going, well, hang on, it's part of a circulatory system.
16:22
So why aren't we thinking about vascular?
Because at the end of the day, half the problem that the lymphatics has is that the blood capillaries are leaking plasma protein into the tissue.
And then it's the lymphatics job and only the lymphatics job to be able to return those proteins back to the blood.
16:39
And this is what helps keeps fluid moving.
So you sort of go, well, these two are working together on some level.
We've got to actually work them well.
So he became for me about dilation, warmth dilation, get the blood flowing, get the nutrients, get the oxygen into that tissue, but then put the compression in so we could get the byproduct and the tissue waste and everything out of that area that we that no longer serves us.
17:01
So it was to create this unity of the two working together.
But I think then going through the results and what we were doing in our early trials, I realized, wow, we're actually delivering deep pressure therapy because when you're held and you're warm, you let go, you know, your body is going into completely different phase of I feel like wrapped up, loved and hugged.
17:24
And that's where we got the analogy from was the amount of people in my research phase of trialing the prototype was I feel like I'm hugged all over.
And that was from first responders through to cancer patients.
Yeah.
And so it brings a completely different aspect.
17:41
And I think one of the analogies I've learnt to say lately is, you know, people make bone broth.
You know, when you let the bone broth keep cool, you've got all that congealed fat sort of stuff sitting on top.
Well, that can be what the environment and your tissue can look like, especially when it's compromised with from the lymphatics.
17:57
And I always go think of Cellulite, all those sorts of things.
But what does it do when it heats up, Thins out?
It's a completely different product to drink and eat than if you were having it straight from the pot when it was cold.
So that's sort of a good analogy to explain how heat plays such a different role and using it within Flo Preso.
18:14
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
So obviously you've had a manual drainage therapists come into the Flo Preso universe and and switch over and start using this.
Like what's been their experience if they could compare, like what they could do with their hands versus what they could do with their suit?
18:31
I think it's more the time efficiency, the less demand on the body.
They're still getting results.
But I do want to say we are a manual drainage therapist, especially an expert in an area where we're dealing anything with post mastectomy or major health issues.
18:46
Is that what they still need to work those very specific sites?
Because our Flopreso is not designed for that.
It's designed for, you know, six weeks after surgery, you know, the recovery aspect.
You're into a phase where you can support that person with about what I call pulling fluid in areas because it's still compromised due to maybe lymph node removal or trauma from surgery, etcetera.
19:12
You know, they play still a very important role and obviously you're opening up a lot of practitioners will still open up certain areas based on what you're dealing with.
So if I've got swelling in my legs, for example, a practitioner may open up my inguinal or iliac nodes to be able to help that fluid more efficiently as and then put me in the suit.
19:32
That's those that are really qualified will consider that.
But I think more importantly, it's just it's given them an opportunity to step back a little and not have to work as hard.
They can take on more clientele.
The great thing is, is you know, it's, it's a put in a click and put and forget type scenario where and most people want to be left alone.
19:52
They want to be left in the suit.
They're fully clothed.
They want to live in this little bubble for their 40 minute session.
They don't need anyone fussing over them or worrying about them.
You have this beautiful music.
In the background, you have headphones on your eyes.
Sorry.
Headphones on your eyes.
20:08
Yeah.
You have an eye mask.
Sorry.
That would be funny.
Headphone on your eyes.
And and so you're, you're given this opportunity just to forget.
Yeah.
And that is magical.
And so the so the great thing is the practitioner is giving you a buzzer so you can contact them at any point and they're able to go and do something else.
20:27
Even if it is a small session with someone, or catching up on their book work, or just having 5 and it's out to rest, you know that that's where the huge benefit is.
Yeah.
And what about the, you know, the other thing that people often ask is, you know, we've got so many lymph nodes in the face, head and neck.
20:44
I think you often say between 600 and 1000, depending on what medical textbook you pick up, but over 300 in the face, head and neck.
So could you talk a little bit about the flow vibe and how that's a tool to actually give the full body experience?
Yeah.
So obviously it is an area we can't cover in compression.
21:02
I'm sure that's obvious.
You don't want to be compressed around your throat.
Be hard to design A suit for all the different faces and necks in the world.
Yeah, I did.
Look, it is quite a challenge during a headpiece and a lot of compliance around that because of the potential of what it could do.
21:19
So the easiest solution was to create flow, vibrate and again using vibration.
I mean, we don't think twice of getting on a vibration plate, you know, full emphatic, so, but a very soft version.
And then the idea for that was if you weren't a trained manual lymphatic drainage therapist and you didn't know how to do it effectively, you could actually do the drainage with the flow vibrate.
21:41
So we can have one in each hand and we're just opening out through to the cervical or the cervical nodes, they call them in New Zealand.
And then you've got some key lymph nodes that we open up behind the ears, front of the ears, under the jaw, and then we're able to drain the face and head.
Now where the benefit of that is, is everything from brain fog, sinus issues are also things like, you know, we now know we've got a lymphatics of the brain.
22:03
We now know our brain actually needs to drain.
So what you know, some of it, not all of it goes through the cervical nodes.
So again, we're trying to create this clearing and and you know, for the women and out there that wake up in the morning like I do being my age is you've got a bit of puff and you want to clear the puff under your eyes and under your face.
22:20
You know, it's fantastic for that for self-care.
And that's where the advantage came in is not only could we use it for clinical care, but we could send it home and, and allow someone to not be overwhelmed by how do I drain it manually?
Like which way do I put my hands?
How do I send it this way?
22:35
Because it's got a little bit too complicated for some people.
And this was just an easier solution to still be able to sit in front of TV or in your case, in your car on your way to everywhere you go.
Everywhere I go, yeah.
It's really wild that, you know, I never.
That was definitely one health hack I didn't see coming.
22:53
Will I be driving in my Jeep with a vibrator?
But I will tell you it's, it's, I can tell especially like 3 days in if I do it, you know, morning and I do it before I go to bed.
It's such a difference.
And there is a, there is a build up, you know, there is a build up when we don't do these things.
23:09
And I kind of had this moment this morning, you know, again, it's, it's sort of like dental care.
It's like, oh, you.
So you want me to brush my teeth?
Well, what should I expect as far as health benefits?
You know, am I going to feel, are my biceps going to work better?
And it's like, well, no, but in 15 years when that bacteria starts to overwhelm your, overwhelm your gums and then eventually your heart, you'll have heart disease.
23:30
And so I think about it like the same way I was like, I really think it's not, it's not something that we you do not need sickness to be the forcing function for you to think about.
Some of these regulatory systems has been a big theme, whether that's muscles or it's lymphatic or it's drainage pathways or it's respiratory function, whether it's learning how to breathe, you know, these kind of core essentials that would be in like a human health blueprint that are just it's their essentials.
23:58
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24:54
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Let's get back to the show, you know, and I think the the next question I really want to ask you is like, why do I need a Flowpresso?
Why do I need to do lymphatic drainage?
It doesn't seem like my ancestors 300,000 years of ago were sitting around under a big oak tree opening up pathways.
25:18
What?
Why?
Why today?
Are these a few different reasons?
Are we more sedentary so we sit at an office desk?
A lot of people do every day and just sitting alone creates what I call pooling in the pelvic area.
So maybe this is some of the reasons why we've seen such an increase, you know, in PCOS and you know, even, maybe, you know, there are issues that we're seeing with IVF kind of things and, and even men with erectile dysfunction and stuff because we sit all day, you know, we're not moving enough.
25:50
That's the first problem.
Second one is I think environmentally, like we're more and more exposed from the air we breathe to the, you know, the Wi-Fi, everything's frequency.
So, you know, I don't get on a whole lot of like discussion around this stuff because there's a lot of different opinions, but everything is frequency and it has to sort of rattle us a little bit, especially when you're working in buildings.
26:13
There's all the sun, natural light we sit under.
We're not outside in the sun enough.
No, we're not walking with bare feet.
We're not grounded enough.
And so, you know, our accumulation of byproduct in the body and we haven't even started on diet here is accumulating And I think there's more junk going in than what we're getting out.
26:32
And I do feel like, for example, me coming from New Zealand, very lucky in New Zealand, we're bit of beef is grass fed.
You know, we do have a cleaner ear.
I'm not saying we're perfect by any means.
You know, I just it's just interesting when I go come here, my skin changes.
26:49
I feel a little bit like I turn into a prune.
It sort of dries out really fast.
I notice more sinus issues.
My eyes water more.
Excuse me telling everyone this, but your body.
I did cut your chest.
I mean, when I go back to New Zealand, I feel like I have to detox for a month though.
It's the bizarrest things.
27:04
You're, you're exposed a lot more than we are, but I still see it a worldwide problem.
People understanding that, you know, we've always done detox and detox has been around for years and it's great.
But if the drainage pathways aren't working, because when you look at any MAP process, you know, it's all starts at cellular level, then the next thing's the lymphatics, then we talk about the organs and then the elimination processes.
27:30
But we've got to get the pathways open to move the fluid out.
Do you know, just think of that fish in a bowl, Like if the fish is your cell and the bowl's the water it's laying in and we feed it.
And over time, we're not taking the byproduct of that fish away and we don't have a filter to filtrate it.
27:47
We know the fish is going to die, right?
Yeah.
And it's the same with our fluids.
We're being overwhelmed.
And that's why daily practice.
It doesn't have to be an hour every day.
I, I mean that's why I made the cheat tools like the at home home tools so you could sit in front of TV and do it.
28:04
It didn't need to necessarily be like a commitment 'cause I know people's a time poor, but like you, you're doing it in the car right when you're driving somewhere great people are doing it on the aeroplane 'cause it's the worst for feeling sinusy and brain fog and that.
And so it's more about trying to do something not like you see it clean your teeth every day.
28:23
Why wouldn't you put 5 to 10 minutes aside every day to lymphatic drainage, whether it's the quick dry brush before you get in the shower or whether it's using the fly vibrate, whether it's doing some hand techniques, whether it's getting on a rebounder.
But that can be so powerful just doing that alone.
28:38
And then Flo Preso is coming in for those that really want the opportunity to really move fluids on another level.
Yeah.
So in other words, the whole body is getting an impact from that.
But it's not just that, because our research also showed that we could improve sleep, stress and anxiety by one session a week for three weeks, and it's a 40 minute session.
29:00
So there's so many aspects to it, but I think lymphatic drainage is paramount now for the future of health if we want to maintain good health, but also if we want to get better, it's even more imperative.
And so being able to go and have something like Floprizo to speed up the process, so when you're doing your daily routine, you're actually able to get some momentum and get the fluids moving.
29:25
Yeah, that's a good point.
I, you know, I won't for the podcast audience, we, we talk about the environmental toxic burden all the time.
And we talk about, you know, it's, it's 40% of America is struggling with obesity.
It's, it's over 1,000,000 people with Parkinson's, a million with miss, 15,000,000 Americans with autoimmunity.
29:44
You know, we spend more per capita than any other nation in the whole world.
And our chronic illness is skyrocketing.
So that's, that's the facts.
And I just think if we're going to meet people where we're at, that's why we need technology.
I would love to do it all through lifestyle, but if we're getting on jet planes and we're breathing rocket fuel and we're exposed to these very challenging toxicants to remove from the system and the system is already burdened, then that's I think we're just meeting people where we're at.
30:13
I never want to say like I'm an absolutist.
And I think you can also chase outside yourself and just be just as sick.
Well, what device or what technology do I need Next is you know, dot dot dot told me I need it and it's going to solve this problem for me.
I think just slowing down and again, educating is the big gap in the space.
30:32
From my experience, most mostly with medical practitioners, you know, a lot of people that I speak with that have some self-care practice, they actually have a dialed in quite well, you know, and, and it's, it's really interesting.
I think the one thing you've touched on a couple times is like the stress component and the idea that, you know, you had a large clinical trial, 135 people, you had a 92% improvement in sleep across the board, nervous system sleep.
30:57
You know what, what I thought was fascinating was the idea that the lymphatic system is all smooth muscle, you know, so it's working when we're in parasympathetic.
And you know, I think about how I let good stress override my life, which could just be me being super passionate.
31:14
But if I'm like, if I'm in like, you know, just working and like head down to the grind and like that's not complementary to this regulatory system.
So I think we can, we can all like just do a quick check in who's ever listening to this and be like, well, am I in predominantly A parasympathetic or am I in sympathetic OverDrive most of the time?
31:34
I think that's, I think if there's one big driver for all of these conditions that we could tie everybody in together, it's chronic stress.
Yes, I would agree.
And we're seeing in the research.
So some of the some of the things that we did as part of our studies, we did a pilot trial to begin with before we went into the 135 and I was doing heart rate variability.
31:53
Now I did this on police including AOS, which is like your swap.
I did nurses, I did firefighters, and then I worked with chronic conditions and I even bought in people that were or thought they were healthy.
32:09
And I would say about 95% of all of those candidates, and there was a few were living in a more fight flight state than they were.
So in a sympathetic than they were in a parasympathetic.
The interesting thing about first responders is they were more stressed lying down than they were standing up because they're already ready to go.
32:30
They're waiting for the next call.
And it was worse than firefighters because firefighters tend to go to bed or sleep on watch when they are doing certain shifts.
So of course they're woken to that alarm, which is like they have to catapult out of the bed.
They have to get going in a split second.
32:46
So you could see why they were dealing with more chronic stress.
And I'm learning a lot about the polyvagal system and trying to and trying to learn a lot more about this freeze form phase and realizing I believe that more people are in that now than we've ever realized because we're just coping, we're surviving, we're living day-to-day and we're waiting for the next thing to happen because the last 4-5 years has put a lot of people into dysregulation.
33:15
Just learning alone, that touch and being around people is just as imperative as regulating from how much stress do you expose yourself every day?
You know, what are you down at dealing with environmentally?
Who's that?
Are you really need to be in that relationship or not that sort of stuff.
33:32
So one of the things we found with Flo Prezzo, as I said earlier, was that deep pressure.
It was like you were being held and and given a safe environment to remember what balance felt like.
It was like it's a remembrance to me.
It's like the body is just going, Oh, hang on.
33:50
This is what it feels like to actually feel rest and repair, not to live in fight flight because you need a reference point.
It's like meditation when people try to teach you meditation for the first time, you look at them going, I don't know how to find there.
What are you even talking about?
You know, because there's no reference point.
34:05
And then when you find it, then you get a little glimmer and then you start to have this feeling of lightness and and connectedness on a deeper level.
You're going, Oh, this is my reference point.
But it can take weeks to get there and meditation.
Whereas the Flo Prezzo, somehow it's got this little miracle where it just takes you there and it holds you there and you're warm and you've got this lovely.
34:26
Because the way the compression works is like a wave you like starts at your feet and it moves up your body and then it lifts your shoulders up and then you relax down again.
It squeezes you and then it starts all over again.
So there's this rocking momentum with being held.
And I call it the deep reset.
34:41
It's like in my generation, we did this control alt delete of our computer to reset the computer, right?
I think it's doing that on a really deep level so the body can remember again what balance feels like.
Now, if you go back to a lifestyle and make no changes, if you don't implement lifestyle changes to try and allow that to be more of your reality, it will stay, continue.
35:03
You'll go back, you'll keep falling back into that phase.
But with those three sessions, what we found is that we started to regulate these first responders the way they were living between parasympathetic and sympathetic.
And we, we're getting some amazing feedback through our district commander who was responsible for overseeing it all.
35:22
He's going, he was getting calls from wives going, I've got my husband back again, or he's down on the floor playing my, the children again, like he's really interacting with them.
Or I'm sleeping the best.
I slept for 20 years, 8 hours for the first time in 20 years.
35:37
There was this kind of feedback happening because the body started to remember.
Yeah.
Can we talk about some of the other studies that you've done in like the last, we've had some white papers come out in the last six months that are looking at other areas aside from sleep.
You did the and we should explain intracellular extracellular fluid ratio to the audience.
35:56
We definitely talked about it.
But this idea that you know, 2/3 of the body's water should be in the cell and 1/3 is in the tissue.
When that ratio is off, it's hard for the cell not only to let go of garbage, but to take a new beneficial nutrients so.
Yeah.
So we worked with a technology called Sozo Bio Impedance, which is used a lot in hospitals, especially for lymph edema.
36:16
So you're measuring things like BRMI, intracellular, extracellular fluids.
My extra part of my resources within this, I had a program that could actually do quadrant change.
So you could measure the difference between right and left arm, left, right and left leg, so that you could actually see what you did.
36:33
What we found now it doesn't seem like much from our research if you don't know much about it, but we were changing between 2 to 3% of that cellular change.
Now that's considered significant in the world of that, that you can actually change that much fluid.
And it was being consistent because AI wanted to prove that we moved lymphatics, but BI knew if we could change the extracellular and push it into intracellular that that would actually allow for recovery as well.
36:59
And that was, that was quite a big game changer for me.
And then what was really fascinating is when we started studying.
So we've launched a new product about 3-4 weeks ago called Flow Vibe 2 and that was for the lymphoid industry because they really struggle with having something for self-care.
37:15
Our only solution is a pump and that's just a singular pump on the side of the extremity.
So I wanted to develop this tick.
Now what what came out of studying with this technology, which I thought was absolutely fascinating.
So we just studied breast cancer, post breast cancer, lymphedema or breast lymphedema.
37:31
So arm or lymph, sorry, arm or breast lymphedema.
And So what we found though is that everyone, everyone, because I was monitoring all this quadrant change, had a point one litre change in their legs and all they were doing is the from the chest up in their actual sequence of working with lymphatics.
37:49
So for me, when you start to understand that you could just work terminus breast tissue arm and you're changing .1 litres in your legs, that was mind blowing for me to be able to actually have that kind of research.
Because you don't hear about any of this, you don't realise that maybe the work I'm doing in my chest here is actually affecting my lower area.
38:09
But that was profound for us to see that we had actually changed those fluids.
I mean, we get the visuals.
We see people say, you know, I've lost.
You call them pounds here.
We call them kilos in New Zealand.
And they were losing pounds on their waist.
They were noticing, you know, I mean, we were at a show on the weekend.
38:24
A woman had severe edema in her ankles.
And she has had a lot of health issues and we put her in as part of a 15 minute feel good session of lymphat of the flopreso, sorry.
And she caught up with me about four hours later.
She goes, my ankles are so much better.
38:41
So the research we're now working on is to set to set go a little bit further and just see if we can learn things.
Like for me, it'd be very exciting to understand inflammatory change.
Like can we change the inflammatory markers or what happens with, you know, over a period of maybe six weeks, if we can see the changes in say detoxifying tools, things like that.
39:02
Because I think these this is what helps people understand why they need to do it.
Yeah, it helps the from my understanding and we can continue to prove things out on the system.
But essentially, there's a robust amount of data that already exists on compression, lymphatic drainage, pneumatic pressure on the National Institute of Health in pub Med to show anything from like you're saying this, this changing of fluid volume to accelerated wound healing to non healing diabetic ulcers.
39:34
Like what are some of the things that you're aware of that that already are in existence from technologies, we could say a sister or brother technology to Flopresso?
Well, I mean, I think just coming back first is I think the biggest issue that we've got in the lymphology industry is we tend to store label at all for lymphedema or post surgical like recovery.
39:54
We we aren't advancing enough to show the aspects of metal toxicity those sorts of things.
So yes, you will see, you know, some of the stuff that we've come across is like especially post surgical recovery as you know like postpartum.
Things like, you know, any sort of abdominal surgery, if you've had you know, obviously breast cancer or extract and you know, surgery from a implant, there's been where we see it amazing as hip surgery, post hip surgery and knee ACL joints, things like that.
40:26
It's incredible to observe and there's research on it.
They've done quite a bit of research for performance.
So performance recovery in athletes and so a lot of it tends to be surgical or lymphedema based, like you said, post wound and diabetic.
And that's why for me, I think the more and more we start to share the changes that we see from a holistic point of view.
40:47
So I'm more mean, you know, from whether it's chronic illness to, you know, the woman that can now sleep through the night for the first time and 10 years.
Those are the kind of things which I'm looking forward to, you know, seeing more and more of because I now that the lymphatics finally in the limelight, we'll probably start to see more research that can actually show how much more it can be pivotal in health.
41:09
Yeah, I think that's one of my like biggest pain points sometimes is when a doctor will walk up at a big medical convention and they're like, oh, I don't, I don't do lymph.
Like that's not they're like, I treat this, you know, I don't, I don't, that's not something I don't work with people with lymphedema.
Yeah.
41:25
And then, you know, from our conversations and working with so many clinics and seeing how this impacts real people with real stories, I just think it's, it's such a blind spot, you know, and I know that within the within the medical training for a doctorate, there's very, very little education on lymph.
41:41
And I think it's under hours.
Yeah, I mean I was what Steny Roxon spoke about it at a conference and he says at most they get 8 hours, but on average it's between two to four hours and their whole 4 year doctorate.
So you can understand why it's not knowing.
And I think part of the the problem is how they can manage it because, you know, surgically you've got to remove lymph nodes.
42:01
You know, there isn't a magic drug that's, you know, they're there.
It is actually really hard from a medical point of view to actually do something with this system because it's so delicate.
It's so, I mean, I had the privilege of feeling lymph nodes and they're and they're tiny.
They're not that big, you know, and half the time they don't even know they're actually exercising them when they're doing any sort of biopsy or surgical removal.
42:23
So, you know, this is where I feel that, you know, they're challenged by what to do with it.
You know, even our way to test it is so like archaic like that there, there is new ideas coming through and they're looking at different ways and these 3D mapping and stuff like that.
42:38
But you can't count how many lymph nodes you have.
We still don't even know if you can grow lymph nodes, like regrow them yet.
I watched a guy who was a surgeon, a plastic surgeon, he wanted to see if he could create breast tissue.
And he put, he was able to actually put some blood vessels into sort of a breast shaped sort of material where he was then inserted it back into a mouse.
42:57
And they were observing and they, he had taken it out and he was showing us and it looked like a shape of a breast tissue.
And I'm going, Oh my gosh, that would be such a great thing if we could have that.
And then he opened it and then there was a lymph node in there.
Now we're trained to say that yes, you can grow surface lymphatics, but there's been no substantial research because it's actually really hard to study if you actually grow new lymph nodes or not.
43:19
But every other part of the body regrows.
Why wouldn't we?
So that's the question I'm always asking and always considering.
What if I get your lymph moving your range of motion back and better blood flow in that area?
And yes, you've had 10 lymph nodes removed, but what if the body can actually recover and create more?
43:37
Yeah, yeah, it's, I mean, I see the possibility in this.
You know, again, I guess another area where it's been interesting to see it met with resistance is physical therapy.
You know, when we have some physical therapy clinics and Jennifer Schwartz and DC has a Flopresso now and they're PT clinic and they're like, this has changed our lives.
43:57
It's changed our practice forever.
You know, she's like people are stronger, women's periods are, are much less severe, menstrual cycles are evening out there, everybody's sleeping, they're recovering.
Like they're just seeing all the metrics because they work with strength, they work with, you know, mobility, They do work with the energetics, but they, but they've been blown away.
44:18
It's, and it's hard to have a standard model where the model is to see hundreds of patients a week for a little 15 to 20 minute work sessions where we're going to just work on the mobilization of a risk.
So it's, it's getting, it's getting clinics like hers to trust and just pull out and be like, let's take another look at this.
44:37
You know, what happens if the model changes?
And I understand there's that there's that pain point for the consumer in which, you know, some of these things are going to be cash.
They're going to be, they're going to be cash pay.
So they have to, you do have to understand like what would the ROI be for my body if I chose to invest in this?
44:54
But that's been a really interesting journey, working with that patient population.
Yes, and I always, I always try to explain it to PTS that what if we're preparing the body to make the shift they're trying to work with.
45:09
In other words, you know, if, if you've been, it's no different to you, you know when you go to say for example, a chiropractor and someone massages you beforehand, you tend to adjust better and you hold.
And so the same from a lymphatics point of view, if I've reduced your inflammation, if I've been able to get those fluids mobile, I'm getting better blood flow in that area, then my mobilization I'm doing as a PT is going to be enhanced.
45:32
And I, when I was teaching a hand on technique with PTS around the US, they just, their answer was always, why were we never shown this earlier?
Why do we not understand this?
This is like, you know, certain lymph nodes in the back of the knees, like the popliteales, you release those, the knee starts to recover faster.
45:49
You get into the groin and actually work with inguinal iliac nodes.
You start to see hip recovery like from surgery, a pelvic recovery, improved periods.
Like you know, you start to when you, when you understand the actual overall of what the lymphatics is doing and the mobilization, the fluids and what that will do, it's enhancing your practice.
46:08
It means you don't have to work as hard.
It means you could doing, you're achieving outcomes on a faster timeline than what you would just doing the day-to-day that you normally do because you can incorporate the heat or not.
And that's the advantage.
And we become, especially in the PT industry, it was always cold, cold, cold, cold, right.
46:27
But now we're starting to change that.
And this cold FIFA for, sorry, 24 to 48 hours is important from a reduction of swelling.
But now they're starting to realize that after that, it's actually the heat.
Yeah, that really is the game changer to recovery.
46:43
Yeah, I know Stacey Sims is exercise physiologist, cautious, a cold.
But she says across the board, she's like, my women crush it with heat and she goes heat shock proteins, activation of heat shock proteins for recovery and cellular repair is something that I just see every single athlete.
46:59
It's it's a yes.
We need to get Stacey in the flopresso.
Yeah.
Stacey, you're in New Zealand.
I know, so am I.
Let me know when you want to connect.
I love it.
I love it.
We also need the Buffalo Bills.
I want the Buffalo Bills to have one so bad.
Yeah, I told you I was.
47:14
I was texting with what, their lead physical therapist, and he was like, yeah, he's like, we'll look at it next year.
I'm like, it's coming.
So we'll just put that out in the universe.
Why Flowvibe too?
Why?
You had a flow vibrate, you had an orb.
These are tools for home care, which which I should mention for, you know, before we go into that, let me just say that like the big question I get a lot is people are like, well, can I buy a Flowpresso?
47:35
And you know, I'm always like, no, it's a Class 2 medical device.
Since we spoke on episode 183, Flowpresso has went through the FDA is a Class 2 medical device, which is prescriptive.
So you have to be a licensed healthcare professional to own one at your clinic or prescription.
47:50
Describe one for someone that that you think is is in need.
Can we just talk a little bit about like the classification and certification and what it says we do and what does that mean for a clinic?
Certainly so as part of our combination between heat and compression put us in a what we call a higher terms of use.
48:08
So it put us it actually catapulted us more into being a real medical device and not an over the counter Class 2 that you can see with other compressions.
And so because combining both can be significantly powerful and that's why, you know, from a regulatory point of view, it became a little bit more restrictive.
48:28
And so the terms of use is around post surgical and post trauma recovery.
So it's about making sure that our practitioners are licensed to oversee that kind of care.
And trauma can be anything from an injury through to, you know, an event in your life that's occurred through to, you know, chronic health.
48:50
I mean, and this trauma can be labeled as many things.
So it did mean that we were now in a position where our practitioners needed to be licensed to prescribe or, or to deliver medical devices.
So you, you know, it can be anything from a naturopathic Dr. to an aesthetician, for example.
49:07
And it did create a little bit of, unfortunately, a ripple because it did limit us.
But you know, what it has done is it's put us in a league that is very different to what maybe a competitor would have, because now we're being recognized to be used in more clinical aspects rather than just an at home.
49:27
And one of the things I did see is that, for example, an at home product, not everyone understands the power of draining lymph.
So for example, you know what, every day for five days, we'll throw you into a significant detox.
You will feel awful, but all sorts of symptoms will come up.
49:45
You'll think your world's ending because you've literally opened up the pathways and everything's draining all at once.
Combination of heat and compression.
You know, for women, they can bring on a sense of anxiety.
If you don't know how to regulate that because you know, hot flushes or we, you call them hot flashes.
50:01
You know, it's, it's understand that the fact that we wrap and hold you can bring out trauma.
They can literally bring out cellular trauma and you're like, hang on, what's going on?
I had a police officer in the middle of a conference at a health and Wellness safety group.
And she had been in the field for a long time.
50:19
And she had in the middle of this conference a reoccurrence of a PTSD moment.
And she sort of, you saw her starting to react.
And I came over and just held her hand.
And then she just breathed through it and she released.
And she said it was one of the most powerful impacts of her life.
50:37
She could see it all coming.
She realized she didn't have to do anything.
She was safe because she could feel the suit holding her.
And then all of a sudden it dispersed.
But had she gone into the fear, that could have been in a different situation.
Yeah, yeah, it's powerful, yeah.
And it's also an experience that you're not going to self facilitate.
50:54
Like you're going to have someone button you in, set your temperature, set your pressures, make adjustments, put an eye mask on, give you headphones.
The magic and it's and it's great to do alone, but the magic is to be held and served and have someone holding space.
51:11
And that's a 5 minute exercise by someone else.
But truly, the design of the, you know, in my experience, that's where the magic is.
Yeah.
And you know, you want coming to your point, yes, the the the magic, having someone to put you in, but someone that's actually overseeing your care.
51:28
Yeah, so your recovery is so you're not dealing with her responses.
You are having a coming out of that suit, for example, feeling like you've been hugged all over in a state of bliss, feeling light, not having three days of massive detox afterwards, you know, like being carefully supported through that healing process.
51:46
So it you know, that what it has pushed me is to realize I need to now do a very high level over the counter product.
And now with lymphatics getting into the limelight, I think this is where we'll be able to deliver something like that.
Whereas in the past, no one really understood it needed to be certain pressures that needed to be done a certain way.
52:04
I'll just buy the cheapest version and I'm OK.
Now we'll be able to lean into all those other people that want one, want one at home and all the rest.
And that tick won't be as advanced, but it'll still deliver the same experience.
And it can be moderated in alignment too, with practitioners that may not have, or people at home that may not have that expertise.
52:26
Yeah, I just, I think there's such a powerful piece of community and we don't, in my experience, we don't heal alone.
Loneliness is a generator of disease.
And I think that's a part of the real pandemic right now is just, we're all so separate, even though we're hyper connected.
And that's that's part of the joy for me is putting somebody in a suit and and being like, wow, look what I did for this person today because they get out and it's, you know, I've said this on other podcasts.
52:50
There's like of all the tech I have, I have some great stuff in the house.
There's nothing and it's somatic like deliverance and like felt experience and 40 minute transfer transformation like Flopresso, like hands down, you know, and that's why I continue to like stand by and rave about it and and work with the team and why choose to be part of the Flopresso family because it is so, so, so powerful.
53:13
So I want to celebrate, celebrate you for that invention again.
Thank you.
Just just quickly, why flow vibe too?
Because we said we've got these home care tools that are like, again, for me it's like brushing your teeth between dental appointments.
Like you go to the dentist, you go do flowpressos, but your home care was using, I choose to use vibration for that.
53:34
So why did we do a flow vibe too?
As I said it was, it was actually a drive.
I still speak every other month in New Zealand on lymphedema to help women know how they can manage this condition.
And it's been so obvious for so long that there's so little available for at home.
53:50
And so the big drive behind it was actually, and all our messaging is for lymphedema.
That's not to say it can't be used by others.
So what I did is I took the three vibrations that are sitting in flow vibrate.
I then added one of the oscillations that's in the flow orb.
And then I bought in 35 Hertz, which is a frequency known for microcirculation.
54:09
So the idea was that not only could they open their drainage pathways, but they could work on dense tissue.
And so yes, it would be like even women with like might like to use it or people with, you know, abdominal issues where they need to get that density and go into different layers.
54:26
That's where that's the advantage to it.
So it was really like a one stop shop.
I mean, in our research, we had one that completely stopped using her pump.
She said, for the first time in my life, I'm not stuck to this thing one hour a day.
I can just do this in front of the TV.
It's amazing.
So, you know, for me, it's about lifestyle, it's about quality of life.
54:45
And this was an option to make it available to those women and men, because men get breast cancer too out there, that they had a choice that they could do something a lot easier on themselves then being hooked up and having to go for intense therapy.
They could actually do something every day as well.
55:01
Yeah, awesome.
Well, we're probably at our hour one could have just knocked on the studio.
So we're going to close it down.
I'm going to give you one last question, because since we've last had our episode 183, the world's changed a lot.
So you can wave a magic wand, you can turn in all the iPhones to channel Desiree.
55:21
What would you say to the people of the planet right now?
Feel we need to come back to feeling where we're at in life, as in find your barometer, where are you?
Get awareness.
Am I in that fight flight or am I in that freeze fawn?
Am I regulated?
And then what can I do to change something in my life every day That and that can be just that you go out walking or you go and put your feet on the ground.
55:41
Start with the ones that you can do and then consider things like lymphatic drainage and breathing more efficiently because breathing alone helps lymphatics.
So that's what I want to bring people back to basics.
We've got so overwhelmed with Internet.
There's so many things to do, there's so many products to take.
55:58
There's so many people to listen to that we're completely forgetting our own ability to regulate and feel where we're at.
That's right now what I think is so valuable because once you see where you're at, that's when you can make the change.
Beautiful.
All right, team.
We'll be back.
Desiree, thank you for being a guest on the podcast.
56:16
Thank you.
Big love.
Yeah, thanks everyone.
All the best for help.
Bye, team.
All right, team.
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