Hard Pivot: with 8-Time Olympic Medalist Apolo Ohno

We explore the level of physical and emotional resiliency it took to hold that level of excellence for over a decade and the biological cost that comes with greatness. This author, speaker, and entrepreneur has made a HARD PIVOT (the title of his new book) to serve humanity and guide others to become their best in terms of health, work, life, and balance.

Together in front of a LIVE audience, we examine his journey through living in the bubble of speed skating, the extremely firm guidance from his father, and how he transmuted his success on the ICE to a motivational speaker, celebrate author, and successful entrepreneur.

Episode Highlights

[0:01:30] Apolo’s motivating factor to look for purpose elsewhere

[0:04:51] Rage, insecurity, and the terrible fear of failure

[0:12:18] The sacredness of ice for Apolo and the great divorce

[0:22:22] Guiding principles used to set himself up for success

[0:30:40] What keeps Apolo grounded when in a state of overwhelm

[0:35:02] Biohacking in the Olympic space

[0:42:48] The five golden principles: gratitude, giving, grit, gearing up, and go

[0:48:38] How 14-year-old Apolo figured out what to pursue in life

[1:01:36] What Apolo’s life is today

[1:05:31] Reaction to the 15-year-old Russian skater’s performance-enhancing drug issue

[1:10:07] The role of coaches in instilling passion in athletes

[1:16:33] Parenting for athletes is not a blueprint for everyone

[1:21:49] Which medal was Apolo’s favorite and why

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (00:00.078)
And so in my first race, I was supposed to win. I was in the cover of Sports Illustrated. They had predicted me to win four gold medals these Olympic Games. And in this race, I was the dominant favorite. And I was in the lead with like a quarter of a lap remaining, which means there was two seconds left in the race out of a minute and 30 second race. And all of a sudden, an athlete falls into the side of me and all of us go crashing into the pads.

I fell like this with the pads behind me and I remember I like stabbed my own leg with my blade because of the jolt of my back hitting the pads. I scrambled on my feet and I threw my skates across the finish line and it was at that moment that I didn't know what happened. I was deeply unsettled because I knew that I didn't win and I felt like something had been stolen from me. Like I was deserving of this medal and someone else took it from me.

Welcome to the Beautifully Broken podcast. I'm your host, Freddie Kimmel, and on the show we explore the survivor's journey, practitioners making a difference, and the therapeutic treatments and transformational technology that allow the body to heal itself. Witness the inspiration we gain by navigating the human experience with grace, humility, and a healthy dose of mistakes, because part of being human is being beautifully broken.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:30.968)
The man who needs no introduction, Apollo Uno!

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:48.144)
Thank you for the, well, first off, thank you all for coming. I'm deeply grateful and your home is extremely beautiful. And thank you so much for the wonderful introduction. Of course, of course, anytime. I'm really excited. This is, I don't do a ton of book kind of promotion related stuff in person, as you know, like it's been much pretty big challenge over the past two years, but very happy to be here. So thank you again for coming.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (02:20.236)
So Apollo, welcome. I am so honored to sit with you because I am a huge fan of the Winter Olympics. It is my favorite thing in the world. you know, sitting in the last few weeks and being able to build that spark, building up to this moment and sit down with the book, you know, and really lean into hard pivot. The thing that struck me and I want to open with this is that, you know, you have this incredible career. So many

awards, accolades, medals, so much time in the Olympic space over 17 years. I guess my question to you is this pivot from that life, like you could have easily, easily just, you could have done that. You could have been this avatar, this Apollo Ono and ridden that into the sunset. And so what was the impetus? What was the motivating factor for you to examine looking elsewhere for more purpose?

When I retired from, when I make the active choice to retire as an Olympic athlete, it was like an easy decision internally to say like, yeah, I think I'm done and I think I'll do something else differently and I'll go and try to replace the same type of like passion and love that I had for the Olympic realm with something else. What I wasn't prepared for was how difficult that was and also how I had this like 15 years of like conditioning that was like,

already starting to become somewhat hardwired into my DNA around how I behaved, how I responded and reacted, what my expectations of the world were, and also the certain types of emotional levers that I used that propelled me in sport may not actually propel me in the same way in whatever this transition would be. So I don't know if it was exactly like if I was searching for purpose post-career, I was just trying to figure out like what else I was good at. I didn't know.

I I spent 15 years living in this bubble where my personal development was relegated to that of what was in the locker room. Like that's what my peers were. you know, unlike like, I would say like professionals who were in the NFL or NBA, know, some of these guys are, surrounded by somewhat like professionals, right? And people that kind of show them that there's going to be a world after sport. In the Olympic space, like, you know, from like when I was 14 years old when I made my first team,

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (04:46.073)
all the way until when I retired, that experience was very unique. And so that was hard. Yeah. It was amazing to like lean into that book. I guess, you you said you're drivers for success in the Olympic space. I got to get it on my phone because I wrote down the exact words and I remember reading it and I was like, wow, that's a little dark.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (05:13.808)
You said rage, insecurity, and the terrible fear of failure were these tools that you utilized to be successful in that space. Could you explain that a little bit? Yeah. And I think every athlete who goes above and beyond what like preconceived expectations are for their performance typically taps into some of those realms. And, you know, I

As a short track speed skater, wasn't exactly genetically designed to be a great short track speed skater. Like there was other peers of mine who were exceptional, like specimens of being human. Like they were designed for the sport. Like, think about like, for example, like a Michael Phelps, right? Michael Phelps probably can't play any other sport except for swimming. And that's what he's supposed to be doing. He's supposed to be a swimmer, which is amazing. Like I'm not very tall.

Just give you a new background. And I love Michael, by the way. Michael's like 6'4", and we have like the same inseam. Just like think about that. think about the body type that is constructed. you know, his... Just crazy. Anyway. So, like what I'm trying to say is like, you know, we talk about some of these, like some of these emotions that we use. And all of us in life have experiences that...

we may or may not be knowledgeable that are driving forces or chips on the shoulder or traumas that either drive us or paralyze our own personal growth. And you shared a bit around kind of your history and background. And that can be a really crushing experience for like many people. And that's a very human experience. And it's hard. And in sport, I just leaned on these levers. was predominantly fear of failure.

And it goes back to this era where I grew up in this single parent household. My father was this like tiger dad who just wanted the absolute best for me, but also believed that I had this limitless potential. So every single day of my life, he was like drilling into my head how special I could become every day. And so this expectation started to kind of bleed into my mind around like, I don't want to let my dad down. I only seek

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (07:33.78)
kind of love of my father, like these, just want the approval and the head nods. So this became a driving force. And so when I say tiger dad, and those of you who read the book, you kind of understand, like my dad used to wake me up at when I was 12 years old, at like 330 in the morning, and he would take me to these empty school and church parking lots. And he would like strap a miner's light on my helmet. And I would like rollerblade around in these parking lots at like 4am. I was like 12 years old.

That's like child abuse today, right? It's like, and so like you could just imagine, like my dad just, his fundamental belief was that you're at a disadvantage. We didn't come from money. So I have to work all day. I can't take you to the training. So you got to find the time and I'm going to show you what real hard work is kind of by force. And so I remember telling my dad one day, I hate this. I do not.

want to do this anymore. He stops the car, pulls over, and he basically just explains to me or tries to get me to explain to him why I wanted to quit. I found it was really difficult. That was the first instance for me that caused this association with having a very difficult time actually quitting. And then also the disappointment that I saw and felt in my father. So this is my own microtrauma that I'm sharing.

throughout the book. At least this is what I believe it kind of harnesses back to. I'm sure there's other stuff in there, like not having a mom in my life. I'm sure that issue, those issues have exacerbated in ways in my relationships that I'm sure you can be very well aware of that I've had to go back and kind of retool myself. Anyway, I'm sharing this stuff with you because these emotions that were used, rage and anger, but also just fear of failure. And it was really around this idea that

I was so afraid of putting myself out there for the world to see. 100 % of my effort and dedication and sacrifice and it just was falling short and maybe it was just not good enough. And I had to deal with that. I had to deal with like, well man, like maybe I didn't live up to what my dad always told me that I was gonna be this like special athlete and this like superhuman figure in his life. And so that caused me to kind of self-sabotage in ways

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (09:58.739)
where I would get in my own way or I would artificially create obstacles that didn't necessarily need to be there in order for me to subconsciously tell myself, well, it's because this happened or maybe you waited too long in a race to make a move and if you just did it one lap earlier, you would have won, right? So it's like a shoulda, coulda, woulda mentality and that's a really horrible way to live the rest of your life.

And so I talk about this because I've just seen patterns of behavior in many people, not just myself. And I used it as levers in a very powerful way in sport, but also sometimes created this very insular and toxic environment between my own two ears. And at times, I became my own prisoner, and it was the world's strongest prison because I couldn't break free. And I'll give you one example.

You know, like when we have these experiences in life where we do something really fun or amazing, we should celebrate them. You know, like these are wins in our life. Life is so short. Like it goes by. And I remember winning like World Cups and World Championships. And at the end of every speed skating competition, we have this like banquet. You know, it's like on a Sunday night and all of the other countries are there with all the other athletes. And we have like a medals award ceremony.

It's like the first time that we can like relax because it's the last time that we're going to see each other for six months before the off season begins and we don't see them for the next World Cup. So most athletes are like, you know, they're like having a beer, they're like enjoying and they're like gonna get ready for a party. I remember winning these competitions and then immediately like leaving right after I ate the banquet food and got my medal, going back to my room, folding my clothes and like watching the skating tapes. And I just won this like.

I was like the first American in the history to ever won this world championship for these World Cups. And here I am, like completely unsatisfied, driven by this fear of failure that it just wasn't good enough. So I was never living fully in that moment. And I never talked about these things, right? Because they were probably also probably really critically important for how I basically become very obsessed around the sport. But looking back, I think it was also

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (12:12.641)
you know, it really stunted my overall experiences in the same way. Does that, hopefully that makes sense. Yeah, it does. I mean, I would say in a similar way, there are parts of my life that I noticed have been arrested in development just because you're dealing with cancer for 10 years. So there's certain things you're going to excel at, like health and wellness and vitality and understanding the mitochondria. And then like, maybe relationships aren't so great because you're, you know, you're focused on that one thing that you need. In one of the chapters, you said that,

ice is sacred to you and that the smell of the Zamboni fumes and the brisk, I remember this, I only read it one time, the brisk nature of the cold hitting your face created this incredible nostalgia. And then you also said that you've never put your skates on again after 2010. Yeah, I've never actually properly skated with like all my gear since I retired, which is literally

about a week ago, so like 12 years ago to the day. And I think a part of it's like my fear, a bit of, I mean, I've been on the ice, I put hockey skates on, I put on like rental skates, and it's not the same. It's like skating on spoons. I'm like, what is this? Who is sharpening these? But I mean, ice, to me was, you're right, like the Zamboni smell.

We create these experiential layers in our mind that are basically just memory banks. And I've got so many memories of living in this ice rink. And I spent so many hours in that ice rink. so people always ask me, what does it actually feel like to go on speed skate? I'm like, hmm, that's a great question. And I remember very early morning, I always like to get on the ice first because I get the fresh ice where no one has skated yet.

and the Zamponin just finished. There's like no music. Maybe my teammates are like, I don't know, messing around the locker room. So I have like an additional like 60 seconds all to myself on the ice. And there's like a sound of like, you know, the metal kind of gliding over top of the ice and it like the ice a little bit cracking. And then you just hear this like whooshing as you push and you feel this like beautiful air that hits your face.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (14:35.065)
And that's like the beautiful part about short track speed skating is this like very fluid, almost like dancing like motion that requires like a tremendous amount of training and strength, but it's a very like free feeling. You almost feel like you're flying in a sense. And I haven't skated for like all the reasons where, I I miss it dearly. I definitely can't fit into my old like racing suit. So, you know, like I look like Apollo Ono during, like I look like I'm someone trying to be Apollo Ono for Halloween. That's what it would look like.

You know, it's like that guy looks familiar. A little bit heavy, you know, a little bit too many s'mores. You know, this guy. I love it. Do you think if the audience claps hard enough, we can get you to put the skates back on one more time.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (15:25.3)
You know, going forward and you have this great chapter, which you call the great divorce in the book, which I thought was a fascinating concept, which is I started there a little bit, but you know, this idea of the platform to which we assess the situation, where we're at and how we move forward from that old identity. I, I find that fascinating for me. It's like, I don't know if anybody feels this at home in the studio audience that you could be tied to great success in the past.

That can be a chain and you could be tied to great failure and that can also be a chain. And I just thought I thought it was just such an amazing concept that everybody here could relate to and lean into. So you can talk about the great divorce a little bit in the book. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for that. I mean, the great divorce was like, you know, hopefully the last divorce of my life. It was, you know, I spent a lifetime married to this idea that this identity was this like nurturing

being in my life. was my first true love. It had showed me what strength was, what discipline was. It had given me the affirmations that like, hey, this is why you're here on earth, right? Especially after I won my first medal, that was the confirmation that this was my purpose. And the world was telling me, you're so amazing. What you do on the ice is so inspirational. Thank you so much for what you do for our country. All these conversations I would have with people running down the street in New York City on Wall Street.

with a full suit coming up and saying, I just want to shake your hand and tell you how amazing you are and then walk away. Not wanting a picture, autograph, just wanting to say that. So the world had been kind of communicating and externally signaling to me that this was my purpose and this is why I was here on earth. And I also at the time, I didn't care about anything else because I was so obsessed and focused on this one particular moment in time in which I was trying to shave thousands of a seconds off

over a 10 year period to be my absolute best in these 40 second races. When it came time to actually have the conversation with myself and say that I am going to be done, my first true love looked at me and said, you think it's your choice actually that you're retiring, but no matter what you do, if you ever try to come back to me, it's not gonna be the same. I have a younger suitor who's younger, more attractive, better.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (17:52.101)
greater story, more earning potential, technically more gifted, whatever that might be, all those things that would make me very jealous from my first true love, right? And it really felt like that. It felt like I could never go back to it in a way. And so I tried to make it feel like I was the one making the decision because I was internally. And so that great divorce was finally, it actually took me like two and a half years to really feel what that felt like. And what I mean is,

I made the decision internally. hadn't told anyone that I was going to retire. A of my friends knew that I would just say, like, yeah, I'm done. I'm probably not going to come back. I think everyone probably thought that I was going to make a comeback at some point because I was still healthy. so internally, just the conversation was just, it was tough, right? Like, as soon as I retired, it was basically like, OK, like, what now, Apollo? Like, what are you good at? What are you passionate about? What other skill sets have you developed outside of the ice skating rink?

And the reality was I hadn't developed any other skills. I hadn't done anything else. And I had been married to this idea that the world had told me was my identity. So I liken this to like maybe if you were doing something for 20 years in your career, what was on your business card has been a part of your identity and you've been married to that identity. And it's very fearful to say, well, I'm going to throw this away and I have to go explore a new avenue in my life. And that was the hardest part was

venturing out into this unknown area where, you know, like I fundamentally felt like there was this imposter syndrome where I was still just as competitive and I was driven by trying to have success, but I didn't have the history of my peers who around me, but I still wanted to win. And I also expected myself to be at the same level as they were, but I didn't yet put in the work, which is stupid, right? Like if any of you decided to go become a short track speed skater, I'd be like, well, it's going to take you some time, you know.

You're not going to do it like in one year. I mean, it's going to take you probably at least four years, at least six years to go and become an Olympic medalist. And so that great divorce was like really visually hard to deal with. And it kind of went away at times in my life. And I say this to you because I wonder and I believe all of us will face change in these pivots that are either by force, by choice, maybe by loss of a loved one, whatever that might be.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (20:13.737)
And we have to do this pivot to where we were married to this thing that we believe that we were destined for. And now we've got this whole blank slate and we've got this pen in hand and we're like, wait, what do I write? And a lot of this in the book, the intentionality was, well, your perception of what is about to occur or happen, you can either brace yourself for that and be very defensive, or you can embrace this opportunity.

And it's much harder to do the latter because of all the things that we know that are associated with human conditioning, right? Like we don't like to do things that are uncertain and unfamiliar because this signals to us that it's unsafe, right? Because in the past, like if you were in an environment that looked unfamiliar, maybe, I don't know, there was a danger there. And so we typically associate, we're always fighting this natural instinct to go against that. But we as human beings have evolved and I didn't know this back then.

I started really understanding like my own behaviors and something was so fundamental to my belief that I knew that I had to go against the grain because that was actually the path and direction where I would receive the most amount of fulfillment. And a lot of my friends were, they were like, I don't know why you just don't stay kind of like in your lane. Like why don't you harness the power of your brand? Like get all these great sponsors. And I had like amazing partners, but why don't you go be a coach or go do something else?

And I went to the other side of the world to do things that were so unfamiliar to me. And it just felt like that was the exploration. And whether I succeeded or not really didn't matter. It was like chapters in my book that, you know, I can't even make up. just, they were so crazy. So, but that, that great divorce, I think is, and it'll happen to everyone in everybody's life, right? It's just a part of life. And I think the more that we can prepare ourselves cognitively to say like, Hey, this doesn't have to be this

this morning, it can actually be this new page of exploration and chance. And it's up to us to have the bravery and the courage to go out there and do that and take that risk. And we have the capability to do so. Yeah. So without the skillset in business and you went to Japan for 10 years, yes? I went to Asia Pacific. So without the skillset, what were some of the guiding principles that you used?

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (22:34.887)
to set yourself up for success because you've been very successful. What happened? Well, you know, I started to lean on the same traits that I did back when I was training in skating, you know, but I think I had to it's taken me many years and many, many mistakes and many failures to actually kind of repurpose the direction and trajectory of my life to find things that are much more in alignment with what I really want. So I stopped living a life.

for other people or fear out of other people's opinions. I talked about in the book in this kind of term that we call FOPO, which is fear of other people's opinions. We all know what FOMO is, Fear of missing out. But we don't talk about our own natural kind of gravitational pull towards doing things because we're in fear of what other people might say, do, or communicate around us. And that's natural, right? Because we live in communities and

There's like societal expectations and social media and all these things are externally signaling to you what you should look like, what you should have, how much money you should make, who you should be with, all these things. And maybe it's true, but most of the time it's just noise. And what I found was that I had been living my life in this like goldfish in a bowl where I was always worried about what people were thinking and looking in at the bowl at. And what I realized was like, hey man, like,

People are living their life. They actually don't care, right? They kind of care, but not really. You need to live for yourself. And once I fully understood what that meant, I started to have this deeper conversation around, you know, like, what do I want out of this experience in life? And what do I believe life wants to give me in this experience? And I try to find that alignment. And I waffle on that. I have waffled on that at times in my life. I was drawn.

into this realm where I was surrounded by hyper successful people who were financially incredibly wealthy. And that was the barometer of success. And I said, well, I need to have that in order for me to be happy. That was how I gauged it. And what I realized very quickly after chasing the shiny stuff like a dog, right? Looking around that I wasn't centered. I wasn't in a present state.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (24:52.52)
And I could also still achieve those types of goals and success, but I first needed to understand why I was chasing them, what was driving me and how I can feel less pushed and more pulled in the direction of where I'd like to go. And that's where some of these biggest changes have actually occurred. You know, I remember coming back.

from some of these long trips that I was doing overseas. And I would go do these events kind of like this, but in a little bit of a different context and environment. And I would leave these types of events after like meeting people and shaking their hands. And there was like this overwhelming feeling of like fulfillment that I would get when I was sharing my story with people and I could see and have this like similarity where, hey, you also have struggled in many areas of your life that are very similar to me.

the psychological process and struggles that I have faced, my insecurities, my fears of failure, my own self-defeatist attitude or self-sabotage, or even just this feeling of less than, many people have felt these things too, or even imposter syndrome. I don't belong here, I'm not smart enough, I'm not attractive enough, I'm not tall enough, that person has more than me, whatever it might be. We all suffer from these internal conversations. It doesn't matter that I was an Olympic champion or not.

just happened to be the medium of my own expression. And so I realized that I was getting these amazing experiences when I was spending time with real humans versus like pushing buttons on a computer and doing other things that I couldn't replicate. And then so I kind of shifted my focus and said like, well, I should really be doing more of this. I'm so much happier when I do it. I feel like it's helping.

helping community and people in ways that I couldn't really imagine. And so in the book, we've got this thing. It's like this, it's called Ikegai. And it's basically like a condensed version of like a Venn diagram where you've got these circles. And you try to overlap the circles between these elements where you're doing things that you're good at. You're doing things that pay you well. You're doing things that you feel like are good and they're aligned with your purpose. And you're like right in the center, like kind of overlapping all these things. I, you know.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (27:03.138)
people always say like well like you know if you're passionate about what you do you'll never work a day in your life. I'm like are you serious? Like this is I'm not like some 80s like rock star like you know like those guys have it the best right like they're still on tour you know like and their hair is still the same what is up with that? So like you know look this book was just it started out like it was like this thick right we cut out 95 % of the book.

all these stories that were probably unnecessary, maybe they go into the next book. it just fundamentally, like I started writing this book before COVID began and I had been like journaling and I used the time during the pandemic to really like hunker down and try to finish as much as possible. And like the hundreds of hours of like just talking on Zoom and recording it, hearing my own voice and transcribing these things. And what I found was that people

are just in challenging times and we face these uncertain environments and there's got to be a better way. What is the silver lining of the hardships that we face? How do we extract that in a way that helps us live life much more in alignment with what we really want to have? And so it began with conversations with people all over the ages of 80, right? And people that who were

much older than I, but I would ask him, like, what do you believe like a good life and how do you believe like a life is well spent? And it was seeing these like weird similarities and like, you know, these five golden principles that I talk about in the book really harness a lot of those similarities and provide some context around at least what I feel like is some fundamental knowledge around how all of us can just hopefully extrapolate some of this information that people around us have lived for millions of years.

have kind of showcased how we can maybe be in more alignment. So look, we live in a very challenging society. We live in an unprecedented time frame where there's you know, geopolitics again, there's all types of, we live in a harsh time. And, you know, I think that like gratitude as being the predominant kind of force in the book, in its thesis, is a really powerful component for all of us to really recognize.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (29:22.124)
you know, kind of the most simplistic of things that we sometimes only realize when we have that financial loss or when we have that loss of a loved one or when our back is against the wall or when we have a health scare, then all we want is just to have normalcy again. We don't want all the other stuff that the world has been telling us, right? And we forget that. And we kind of go back just like in the beginning of the pandemic when we were all uncertain and we were like wearing gloves and hazmat suits to like wipe down your grocery bags and stuff. And it was like crazy. No one was going to happen.

You know, like, and then now we're like right back to normal. Everyone's just like sprinting again. We've like forgotten a bit around kind of what that silver lining is. And so the book is just the intention is to allow you to pause just for a second and just have some more introspection of your own experiences in life. And if you are facing change or want change or know that it's coming in some capacity, how do we prepare or enact some types of behavioral change?

that helps us live the best possible way we can and just win more of those 86,400 seconds per day. I know that I waste a lot of those seconds per day. I can only imagine everyone else is in the same realm. So how do we get more alignment with that? It's really, really important to me in this book.

Yeah. Beautiful, man. There was another section in which you were quoting that even for you with the book and the gratitude principles and these tools that you're using to find your true north, that you still have moments where it's difficult to say, I love you to the person in the mirror every day. And I love that you said every day because I think for me, it's so grounding when I can bring myself back to that. And it's

It's such a powerful shift in how I show up for other people when I can ground that in. So I would love to hear what are some of the things that you do to ground down and cut out the noise. And when you're in that state of overwhelm, you know, you're such a high performer, whether it was skating or now it's business or all this stuff going on in your life. What do you do to get grounded? Well, nature to me has been like the grounding element, at least from an environment perspective. like being here.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (31:33.013)
And, we've been in these like winter wonderlands, you know, like one my good friends and I've been traveling together. I came from big sky, Montana. We drove in today. Like, I don't know. Like that to me is like where I find the most amount of being present. And it seems like time slows down. But talking about like this, like, you know, self-acceptance phenomena that like a lot of people are discussing today, I really, really struggled with liking the person who I saw in the mirror. was deeply dissatisfied.

Because I was conditioned as so, know, through both my, you my dad gave me incredible love, like unconditional, but also underneath that was like this embedded layer of like, you know, this Japanese philosophy of like, you know, pursuit of this perfectionism that's unattainable. But like every day you do it and every day it's, you know, it's never good enough. So like this weird dichotomy of like looking in the mirror and saying like, hey, Apollo, you are inconsistent. Sometimes you are lazy. There's times when

you don't put forth the effort and you complain and you're not grateful and you've got so much to work on. But accepting that person who I saw, there's times when it's easy and I feel like very wholesome and it's like, okay, like, yes, I'm like progressing and there's times when I'm just dissatisfied. So I put that in the book merely because I think as a society, many of us struggle with self-acceptance. It's also been a big lever and a driving tool, right? So on one side, it's very powerful.

if you can use that to your advantage because you're always seeking improvement and progress. But at some point in your life, you are going to have to surrender to some type of outcome. And because of that component, once you're able to do that, I think then you can actually begin the real work. you know, like some of this, by the way, I don't drink, but some of this is rooted in Alcoholics Anonymous, actually, which is also rooted in behavioral psychology. So one of the first people who taught me around

psychology and the elements of harnessing that power in sport was someone who himself had struggled in the past with alcoholism. And he had explained to me that there's times when self-acceptance is a big part of that process. And until you're able to do that and tell yourself and also love yourself regardless, you can't really begin the next process of working and doing the deep work associated. So again, as we talk through some of these elements in the book, like

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (33:58.649)
The book is laid out in a way where I try to keep it high level, but also, you know, I give the reins to you as the reader because you are in control of your life. No matter what I say in the book, hopefully it just inspires and maybe ignites the fire within you to begin your own journey in a way that says, Hey, I'm no longer the passenger. I can get over into the driver's seat, grab ahold of the steering wheel. And although I can't control what's coming at me and the windshield or what's on the road ahead.

I can still maneuver accordingly and I can respond and react in ways that best suit whatever outcome that I desire. But a lot of that first starts in saying like, yes, I am imperfect in this human experience and that's okay. And I can begin working on that. And that's really hard to do for many of us. I struggle with it even to this day and I'm very open about that in the book. But like anything, is, know, life is, it's like this progressive, you know, fluid, dynamic.

chapter that just seems to keep writing, at least for now. So hopefully we can appreciate that. Yeah.

I have, I have one more selfless question. And then I want, I'm sure everybody wants to ask Apollo some stuff. So I want to save time for Q and A selfishly as like a biohacker and a self-optimizer. I do all this weird stuff like pulse electromagnetic field, stem cells, hyperbaric chambers. I would love to know because you had such a healthy, robust career, right? And you mentioned a couple of times and I never really thought about it, but short track is dangerous.

people would get wild, can be, can be. And so was there anything that you were doing in your 15 to 17 years in the Olympic space to optimize out of the norm, deliberate cold exposure, saunas, red light therapy, anything like that? We didn't have red light therapy often. Cold exposure we did often. I saunas probably seven days a week for like years on end. That was like a real superpower. heat.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (36:00.673)
Extreme heat exposure allowed my body. I'm pretty sure it was like a It was something that really helped me recover. I also use it as like a form of meditation which helped me visualize and You know like my body adapted to these environments. So Those are some elements back then we were doing like a cyclical ketogenic diet at times which was really interesting because you know, what are all like 15 years ago? We didn't know what that was. I just

my strength coach was like, eat coconut oil, right? Then I was like, what? This is a fat. Isn't it bad to eat saturated fat? So it was an interesting time where I think we were very far ahead of the game. We used different metrics and data to measure how we were performing and such. unlike the nutrition was a huge part of it, right? It was a huge part of kind of cognitively feeling like I was superhuman. And I gotta tell you, I remember

From 2006 until 2010, so the last four years of my competitive career, I had to make some really drastic changes in my physiology. And part of this was effectively turning into being catabolic in the early summer because I was carrying too much muscle mass up top. So what that means is I needed my body to begin consuming its own muscle as a source of fuel because it's not getting enough fuel. This happens when you starve, basically.

Because I was already lean at like 157 pounds, for me to get down to 150 or 140, which is where we were targeting 145, I had to lose excess muscle mass. But doing so in a way that didn't lose the muscle mass in my legs was very challenging and difficult. So we had to do some extreme amounts of training on empty, meaning like the only calories that had in my body was like a spoonful of coconut oil on a fourth workout of the day.

in my basement doing these obscene sprinting interval treadmill workouts. And the sauna was a big part of that recovery. Sleep was a big part of the recovery. But anyway, I mention that because it's pretty amazing what the human body can sustain when the mind is in alignment. If I explain to you the actual training regime in its entirety of what we did over the volume of that year, people will just be like,

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (38:23.91)
actually lying like the human body cannot sustain that much or like I leg pressing like just shy of 2000 pounds weighing like 145. It doesn't make sense right. But I'm telling you like the mind is such a powerful asset. It truly is just so remarkable and all of us have been granted and gifted this asset all of us and that is what's so beautiful about the human experiences.

your ability to live your life. know, no one knows if you're going to reach the goals that you set for yourself, but still the perception of your life is fully within your control. As we watch what's happening and unfolding on the other side of the world right now is the easiest moment that we can have to be grateful for the most simplistic of things. We don't have to walk 20 kilometers to cross a border in the middle of winter, carrying our food and our family and babies, right? Like we don't have to do that in this country.

And so again, like, why do we have to see that in order for us to feel grateful? We shouldn't have to because life is still a gift. It's been gifted to all of us. And so, you know, you've had your bouts with like extreme challenge. I have never experienced that. Right. I'm grateful that I haven't. But like I try to draw from that experience, let myself know like, man, like, Paul, you've had it so good. You know, like you have it. You just amazing. So again, like.

I don't want to like be on a soapbox, but I just feel like I love it when you see people who can authentically be themselves in their most pure form. And I just, I want the world to be that again. I want the world to be filled with love, but also strength. Strength, but also vulnerability. Vulnerability, but also stoic. Stoic, but also have empathy. These like elements that now

In a previous era, we would typically think of a champion as someone who was only stoic, who never showed emotion, who was poker-faced in all, in any situation. And I think as we evolve as a society, we're hungry to see people who are all those things, but also can show us that they're human, and that they're imperfect, and that they're less than at times. Because they are, and we know that. It's just behind this facade of what we've

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (40:45.406)
but what we were taught and conditioned that Olympic athletes are. And I think we all know now, Olympic athletes aren't. Many of them are not okay and they're not superhuman. They're actually just like you and I. And we just do one thing isolated for so many years. So this life that we've been given is a gift and it's up to us to figure out how we can live it in the best way possible. And maybe that purpose is your family. Maybe that purpose is your spouse.

or your kids or your parents or your loved ones or maybe it's religion, maybe it's your God that you feel so close, whatever it might be. I think it's very important just to remind ourselves, you know, and it's easier said than done, but I think at times of conflict or harshness, it's easy for us to see the beauty in the most simplistic of life. And that's what I get passionate around is like when I talk to these kids today who were like on the short track team,

I mean, it's like some of these kids, speak a different language and they're speaking English, but it's different. Because we live in a different environment, right? Like in my first Olympics, there was no real social media. It didn't really exist. We had email, like, you know? So when people watched sports, they were really watching sports, right? Just like when you went to a concert, you really watched the concert. And what that did was,

It created this experiential layer in your mind and this memory which you can draw upon. And now, you we watch something, we watch something right away and we forget so quickly. Nothing is a fault in that. just saying like we are challenged by the technology we have and it behooves all of us to remind us that being present, you know, being grateful, these five golden principles that I don't know if you want to go into them. We can, but, you know, maybe I'll just start out by saying.

I don't know, because I'm assuming many of you haven't read the book yet. in the book... They got it today. You got it today, okay. It's a really fast read, so was assuming like between the walk from there to here. So like the five golden principles, the first one is gratitude. We just spoke about that. The second one is giving. And I think that's giving to our closest circle is really important. That's in terms of time, that's in terms of love and energy and support, but also giving to our local communities.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (43:04.428)
and also ourself. And what does that mean to give to yourself? And I go back to the self saboteur, like just give yourself the best possible chance of having the best experience in life. Don't sabotage yourself. Life is hard enough. You don't need to set additional speed bumps here. know, like, don't worry. If life hasn't hit you yet, it will, right? Like it will, that's the part of life and you'll get through it and you'll figure it out a way.

So give yourself a chance and remove some of those barriers and obstacles that are unnecessary. And a lot of that's inside of our own mind. The third one is grit. And in a society now where I think it's great that we're having this open communication around mental health and some of these things, but don't ever forget the work has always been the shortcut. Always. There's no replacement for it. Life is hard. Your challenges and your dreams will require you to do the work.

And the more that you can embrace that and realize that the journey is never easy, that's okay. But having the grit to know when you need to be resilient and face the fire, you can, because that is the human experience. We've evolved over millions of years and we're still here, right? The fourth is setting your expectation or gearing up. And that simply is when you've had enough or when you really seek transformational change, it's up to each and every single one of you to remain disciplined.

and have your own level of expectation for yourself. So this comes in the form of routine. Typically, see, you talk about biohacking, if you want to make real tweaks and changes in your life that actually have big outcomes, look at the way that you start your morning and your evening. Those two areas are probably the easiest to control because you are in this wake state that's similar to when you're in the dream state, the first 10 minutes to 60 minutes of your day.

In that time frame, you can kind of shape and mold the trajectory in which you'd like your direction to go. At the end of the day, it allows you to kind of reflect, rewind, and also kind of calm that amygdala system that we all have. And so think about that in a way where you need to set your expectation. And I do it through routine. And finding your routine and changing routine is really important. And the last one is just go. Just go and try it. Go and get after it. Go and test it. Go and just be out there, right?

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (45:26.251)
I used to suffer from like this perfectionism paralysis syndrome where I never wanted to reveal my best self until I felt like it was perfect. And what I realized very quickly is it's never perfect. And I learned so much more by just going out there and doing it. so having perfectionism as a goal is, is can be very deeply obsessive and also very powerful because it keeps you focused. Just know that don't allow that to make you hesitate or delay because I think that we as human beings

As we're seeking to go from 1.0, which is our current self, into 2.0, by crossing this river, you know, it's hard, right? As soon as we get in the river, ooh, that's cold, I don't think I like that. That may not be for me. And then we go back to 1.0, because that's comfortable, it's warm, and it's inviting, and it's familiar. And so the more that we can kind of venture out of the unknown, the more that conditioning starts to feel more real.

Right? And you start to realize, I don't know how deep this water goes, but I know I need to get to the other side. So staying committed to that path and just keeping and going. So that is like learning how to fail fast, recalibrate, starting again, and just having the courage to just go out there and do it. Right? And not worry about what people are going to say and do. They're going to say it anyway. It doesn't really matter. That's the people, right? So don't be afraid of that. Like just, it's just noise. It's restricting you from really maximizing your own experience.

Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (46:58.636)
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money back guarantee that is zero risk for the customer. So if you're ready to purchase, visit www.amaturedifference.com and mention the beautifully broken podcast is your referral source. Namaste. So I know we may have some human beings out here with some questions and we've got a mic in the back with Jimmy. Does anybody want to raise a hand? Julie's got a mic. We got one down front. We got one in the middle back here. I'll go here first.

just have thought a lot. I was fascinated watching you skate. That's first time I ever saw a short track. And I have a son who is somewhat like you. And when he was 16, he went walkabout of his own volition to find out what he was gonna do. And my question to you is, if you don't mind rewinding way back, what was going on?

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (49:20.89)
just a peek at what was going on with you when your dad took you to the beach and left you there to figure it out.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (49:29.968)
Thank you for that question. when I was, I'll give you context what this question is about. When I was 14 years old, I had made my first team. I was actually ranked number one in the US. And so at the age of 14, my peers were like 33, 35, 37 years old. But technically, I was captain of the team because I was ranked number one in the team. I still had braces. literally, I did. And I remember like,

I remember going on my first trip and it just felt so surreal to me because I literally was just a kid. was just a kid. And you know, I was just like in this environment where like after the banquet where everyone was going out and they were going to go have drinks with each other. I can't go for seven years. Seven years. I can't go have a drink. That seemed like an eternity for me. And the following year after I had won those trials, you can imagine people were like,

no, it's just like phenom. He's like this prodigy for the US speed skating. He's going to put us on the map. He's going to make the next Olympic team and win a medal. Now, my father, who came to this country from Japan against his parents wishes, my grandparents were like, you shouldn't go. You should stay in the typical like protocol life of, you know, how we want you to live your life here in Japan. He went against the grain, came to the US and you know, now

He was seeing this son show this incredible potential to go and make an American Olympic team. And the Olympic games were going to be held nine months ahead in Nagano, Japan, where my grandparents were living. So my dad has his own idea of like, I'm going to be able to go back home with my son and show them that it wasn't for nothing, that I produced this, you know, this.

generation that like can make us all proud of the Ono name. I didn't know this by the way at the time and so nine months goes by I go to the Olympic trials the whole year I was just like screwing around I was like not paying attention I had not dedicated myself I was training with the national team so I was not you know I was I was like just just turning 15 at the time I was training in a national team environment before I was training with a junior national team so everyone was kind of around my age group now is with like the big boys.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (51:54.291)
And what I realized very quickly is the big boys weren't doing this for the love of sport. They were serious. This was like they had spent time away from their families and they wanted to make this team. And there wasn't a lot of smiling. It was really hard training and it felt cold. You know, it just like I didn't enjoy it. And so I threw away the opportunity mentally. I threw it away. I showed up at those Olympic trials and I got dead last. So I went from the top of the mountain.

to being at the bottom of the mountain and I heard all these parents in audience chatter, oh, he's just another lost statistic. Oh, he cracked under pressure. I remember what that felt like. was horrible feeling of disappointment and letting people down. And my dad was devastated. And at the time, I thought he was just angry that I didn't make the Olympic team because I thought that that's what he wanted from me. And it wasn't until much later I finally realized what was happening.

So my dad took me from where this competition was. We had flown back to the Seattle area, and he drove me three and a half hours southwest of Seattle. On the Pacific Ocean was this old cabin area. It was actually called a resort. It wasn't a resort. It was a resort, I guess, but it wasn't a resort back then. These were like leaky cabins. They were old. They were like $25 a day, like very cheap. Like they're amazing, right? But they weren't nice.

It was also the dead of winter where it rains like all December and January, it just rains every day. And my dad drops me off at this cabin. By the way, I don't know why I'm going to this place, he's just like driving me there. And he's like kinda explaining to me how I threw away this incredible opportunity. And my father drops me off at this cabin and he says to me, after we had like brought all these things inside and he says, you're gonna stay here for as long as it's going to take for you to figure out what just happened?

and which direction in life that you want to go. I was 15. And he left. He drove away. And I mean, had food. I had clothes and running sneakers. And he left me a journal. But there was nobody around. There was no Instagram. There was no Twitter. There was nothing. There's no TV. There's no internet. It was a pay phone that was down the street that took real quarters. And that was it. And it was me.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (54:19.541)
this incredible Northwest scenery, but I was 15, so I was just like, this place sucks. It's like, you know, this is horrible. And I was forced to have this inner dialogue at a very young age. And luckily, my dad is extremely philosophical in the way that he tried to raise me, so I think this introspective conversation was somewhat already there.

And you know, I knew how to journal and write my feelings down and such, but I didn't know why I was there. And so this like hatred for my father began because he was abandoning me and he didn't love me. And then I started like mindlessly going on these long runs when I was there. And I give you that context because cognitively, like what I was mentally thinking about was like, why am I actually here? What actually happened this past year?

And what was I so afraid of? Like, why did I throw the opportunity away? And what I realized was that I threw it away because I was scared that it wasn't going to be good enough. And that's pretty, that was a pretty silly move for me because with the most slightest of effort, I probably could have made like that team. could have made the last position on that team and everything would have been fine. And so like on day seven of being there and not seeing a single

Human, the entire time, by the way. There was no one there in this entire, I would go out and run for like an hour. I wouldn't see any cars or anybody. Just rain. And I always joke, I was like, this is where you get sent when you're part of the witness protection program. Like, this is where, because there's nobody around. There was like a Native American reservation that was like 30 miles north or something. Which, you know, obviously I'm not going to run that far. And I finally came to a decision, and I'm like, all right, I'm going to call my dad. I called my dad.

He doesn't ask me what the decision was and he comes and picks me up and I tell him I was gonna go skate. So what was going through my head was just this like, I was like in a fork in the road. I literally felt like, at the time I was so zoomed in, it felt like it was life or death. That's what it felt like. I remember this visually. I felt like I was either just gonna go back to school and like do these things or I was gonna kill the opportunity of becoming Olympic athlete. Done, right there.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (56:38.013)
and just say like, nope, it's no more. I'm going to go do it. I'm going to go try something else. And I gambled. I rolled the dice and I tried to make the next team. And then after the team had come back from those Olympic games, which I watched from afar, I went back into training and I tried to make the world team and I got the last spot on that team. I think I was number five on that team, which means I was an alternate, which means I wasn't going to go and compete.

I was going to be there, I maybe one relay race, but I wasn't having any individual races. But that time was a really important part of my life. mean, I still, to this day, I really just, it's unbelievable that my dad felt that he had to do this in order to get through to me. And he's had other parents ask him, how did you have the courage to leave your son, your only son there alone in this environment? And he often says, he's like,

I didn't know if it was the right decision. I actually too was very scared. Because my dad had to go back to Seattle and my dad cuts hair for a living, right? And so, you know, owns his own business and he's explaining to all of his customers what he just did. Can you imagine? They're like getting their hair cut and they're like, are you, Yuki, are you kidding me? Like you can't do that. Like that's not okay. And so my dad felt like he was, he felt like there was no other way.

because I wasn't listening to any authoritative figure in my life. There was no way to get through to me. So he felt like this tough love was the only true and final way for me to find my own way. And luckily I did. There was no like beautiful like parting of the clouds and like booming voice saying, you must come back to speed skating. It was nothing like that. It was much more subtle and it was much more internally directed where it just felt like, you know what? I believe that I have

a unique talent for the sport. And it's going to require me to do things that I wasn't willing to do before. And a lot of that means that I have to show up fully, not knowing full well what the outcome is going to be. And I have to be able to accept that. And short track speed skating, by the way, is like this beautiful display of stoicism. And what I mean by that is you spend a lifetime trying to control these little variables that are so tiny.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (59:02.295)
And by the time you get to Olympic games after 10 years of training or a race, and it's a 42nd race, many times the race does not go in your favor. And a lot of times you may fall or get disqualified or something happens that's outside of your control. And you have to really surrender to that outcome. You have to accept it and then move on for the next race, like almost the next day. So short track speed skating has always been this beautiful way of like learning how to deal with both success

and failure or whatever we determined that to be. And also like really like having instantaneous feedback in a way that gave me these things. I didn't know it when I was 15, but it was from that moment on that my life, my life had taken a change. And I often look back on that moment in time as well and think like, wow, like this, I actually love my father so much more than I could have ever possibly imagined because of what he was willing to do. I could only imagine how hard that was for him.

feel like, I everyone was telling him it was the wrong decision. He shouldn't do that. And he's just stuck with it because he felt like this was going to benefit me later in my life. And he helped craft a warrior, right? Throughout that experience. And I carry that with me throughout the rest of my career, that feeling. I was talking, I don't know if one of the kids is here, but I was talking to this kid earlier. I was talking about his own fears of failure, delaying him or

holding him back from being his true self or his best self. And I was like, that was me in a nutshell. Like my fears of failure in that timeframe when I was 14 was that exact moment, right? Where a lot of times we contain ourselves in such a way where we never actually allow ourselves to go fly free. And a part of that flying free is maybe like hitting the glass, right? And then dropping and then trying to get back up again.

And Short Track taught me that in so many different ways. And as I look on in life, just, you know, was having this discussion with one of my friends today and we were like joking. He was like, man, like you're just, you're like not afraid of risk. And I think a part of it's because I just internally believe that I will always be able to figure out a way to survive. And it doesn't have to be in the same way that maybe other people would deem that to be successful, but I just feel that. I think I get that from my dad in that same area. Anyway.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:01:31.545)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:01:37.015)
Alright, we had one right down here, right down front. we'll give you the mic.

First, your ability to communicate is really impressive. Thank you. you. Really impressive. Thank you. I have two questions. The first, what does your life look like today? I understand you've written this book. I see you as a motivational speaker. What is your life today? And then I have a second one. Sure. And thank you for that. That's very nice of you. My life today is a combination of

what you see me doing right now. We're having conversations. We're talking about challenges and thoughts and psychology and behavioral psychology because I love it. And I feel like that's the path for all of us to grow. That part of my life is dedicated in its purpose to helping people. I like it. I love it. I feel like it's necessary and I feel like I'm good at it. The other side of my life is going to sound very different and

It's more recent. So as you know, like we all go through reinventions and transitions. So two years ago, I jumped on board an investment team based in San Francisco to invest in early stage technology entrepreneurs. So basically I am an investor. And also two years ago, I actually considered coming out of retirement to go and compete again and make this past current

team which was in Beijing. And that quickly became very evident that was not the right decision. But I still believe I could have made that team. I mean, I honestly believe I could have. So the reason why I took this, what I call my day job, is because it was unfamiliar, it's uncertain, I don't have experience in it, and it's really hard. And you're like, that sounds not

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:03:41.081)
like very appealing. But what I've realized is I'm my best self when I get myself into those types of predicaments and situations where I'm forced to be and learn and grow from people around me who I would consider to be far more intelligent and far more experienced than I. And the experience itself is so vitally important that regardless of how I actually perform,

over the next four years or however long I'm with, you know, I'm partnered with this firm, it actually doesn't really matter to me. I mean, I care, obviously. I want to win. I want the team to win. But as I zoom out, it actually doesn't matter. It's just another chapter of my life that I'm growing through. So my days today are a combination of me talking to young founders, listening to amazing, incredible life-changing ideas and world-changing ideas, whatever they're building.

and then me breaking through the pitch deck of their sales pitch to me and communicating with them on a human level so I can get to know those founders because that's where I can really help them. I may not be able to help code what's happening next in the next great NFT. I have no idea how that's going to work. I can help them as they build their business and face some of these transition stages that they ultimately will have to go through and be able to embrace pivots and changes and hardships.

and lack of funding and being told no and being told their idea is stupid. And so that door is wide open and I actually really, really enjoy that. my days are extremely busy. My schedule's pretty out of control crazy and it's a great exercise from the book to practice what I preach on a weekly basis. And yeah, so that's what I do. Thank you. Your humanity beams out, I can tell you that.

But the second question is, how did you relate to the heartbreaking scene of that 15 year old Russian skater who was under the lens of the world so unfairly and treated so badly? How did you feel? Did you relate to it? What opinion did you? Well, I don't know if I could relate to it because I, you know, I'm not a 15 year old female figure skater.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:06:05.861)
being given performance enhancing drugs at Olympic games. So I can try to feel it that like, I agree with you. I think the export of the opinion of pundits and non-figure skaters on someone, I mean, she's 15 years old, she's a teddy bear, right? It doesn't matter. mean, look, we live in a society where we often find ourselves exporting beliefs and systems that we believe are

tied to our identity and we want to recognize that as such. That's the recognition politics and identity politics that we live in today. And that's being exported in every way, shape or form in many different narrations. So whether you believe that happened or not, I was very sad. She skated an incredible performance. Remove all the noise away from where she's from, know, whatever stuff that they were getting, even know what they were giving her. Move that. Her performance was beautiful, classic, was artistic, it was amazing. She's incredibly talented.

And then I'm more in fear of what happens now. Right? So she went there. She probably was supposed to win easily and she crumbled because of this ancillary external pressure that was unnecessarily put upon her in a way where I don't know, like what's going to happen in 10 years to this poor girl, right? Like in that psyche, this moment in time, if she stopped skating, is this going to help propel her or is this going to paralyze her in a way where she's going to feel

like she's always being attacked by the world. don't know psychologically what that outcome will be. yeah, it's, it's, it's challenging. Yeah. mean, yes. mean, there's obviously like,

There's some very strong cultural differences here that maybe are, it's hard for a lot of us to relate to in the same way that I viewed some of my peers who skated from Asia, right? And just the way that they were training and such. But I know just a reminder that Olympic athletes do face immense pressure, but that's also why.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:08:28.137)
we look to them as Olympic athletes, right? On the other side is that we look to them because amidst the most incredible challenges and trauma, they still find a way to go out there and perform. And we've seen that time and time again. And again, at the beginning of our conversation, we were having this talk around how we can redefine what the word champion or strength means. And so with her, I would love to see her come back to an Olympic Games and own all of what had just happened.

and be open about it in some way. And I know it's hard, right, in the cultural surroundings that she's restricted by or doesn't have access to in the same way that we do. But again, that's what I would love to see is I love to see people come back from utter failure and disappointment. Because I have done that many times in my life, even post-career, I have done that. And I know what it feels like. And I know what it feels like when you're at the bottom, when you feel like the world is collapsing around you.

and you feel like you're just not gonna make it. I know what that feels like. I feel have had that weight on my shoulders and I wish I could speak Russian so I could just communicate with her. was like, hey, like your life is just beginning and you can take from this a whole slew of lessons and insights that can be extremely powerful for the next generation of Russian skaters and you can communicate this experience to them, right? In many other ways. And hopefully by the way, we see real change.

that part of the world is going through a very traumatic experience.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:10:06.59)
Precursor to my question, I coach snowboarding here in Jackson and the athlete I worked with last four years had the opportunity to bring him to Switzerland where he won the junior world championship for Big Mountain snowboarding last year. First American to do so. And since then I've had a lot of parents and athletes come and ask me, you know, how do I get my child there? Or as an athlete, how do I get there? And what is your advice on that?

And I always tell them that there's four things involved with the success of an athlete. The hard work first and foremost, natural ability, opportunity, and then what I refer to as the uncoachable, which is passion. And if there is no passion or love for what you're doing, then you won't be successful in it. And my question here is, during your career, did you have a dip in your passion or your drive to compete? And were there coaches or outside sources

that we're able to instill that passion and love for what you're doing. And as a coach, maybe some advice on how to bring that light to the kids and how to instill the love for what they're doing more than that is already there. That's a great question. So I'll answer it in two parts because part of it's unfair. I never actually needed to be pushed by coaches.

until after that incident when I was 14 and I was 15, didn't make the team. After that time when I didn't make the Olympic team, from then until when I retired, was there wasn't a single day that I didn't want to be at the ice rink. Not a single day in my career where I woke up and said, maybe I'll stay back in bed for a little bit longer. I know that is not normal. That was an anomaly. And I've talked to my peers the same way and my other teammates are like, yeah, that's definitely not the case for me.

So I understand that that was unique in my element. Also, a part of it for me was that I don't know if I would classify, I love speed skating and I love the Olympic path, but many days I wasn't even thinking about my love for the sport. This was much more driven out of Apollo doesn't have the luxury of staying in bed because of my fears of failure, my fears of being less than my fears of it's just not good enough. And that was a very, very big driving force for me.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:12:29.588)
which can be very powerful if used as a tool, right? Very, very powerful. Now, to relate to your question around how do you do that, I think, as I've been asked this many times, the single greatest way that we can reignite the passion is through play. And what happens when we, yeah, what happens when we grow, and I was talking to somebody else about this, when we're kids, we play in everything. Everything we do is play.

We laugh with our parents, we're babies, you know, the parents are playing with the kids, they're back and forth playing some kind of game, peek-a-boo, whatever it is. Everything is revolving around play. As you grow and as the world tells you that you're not good at something or you get made fun of in school or you fail, you start to build these calluses, right? Just like on our hands, like if you're lifting weights. And those calluses provide resistance and reminders of the pain of what happens when you don't succeed.

and it forces us into this psychology of working hard and going because we can't deal with the loss versus just playing and enjoying the experience. So I think that we can seek the greatest amount of happiness through play. Obviously the work is a big part of that, but something that a great coach of mine used to do when we were training in the summer was every Wednesday, he would make us play hockey. And I was like, Steve,

We're speed skaters. We're not hockey players. Why we, this is so dumb. We should be speed skating every day. That's all we should do. He's like, is, he goes, no, this is why you're going to be a good speed skater because you are going to go play. And I want you to be able to play in this certain arena. So I think in all areas of life, and I've interviewed tons and tons of people all over the planet from presidents.

to some of the most successful people in business and finance, to artists, musicians, actors, actresses, other athletes. And I found the commonalities that they have a sense of play when they train and compete. Everyone, even Warren Buffett, who has a love of the game, who's probably considered in our lifetime one of the greatest investors in the history of the world, who many would be like, dude, why are you still investing at this age? Like, aren't you done? You're so wealthy. It's nothing about that. He just loves the game.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:14:49.12)
And all of us are playing the great game of life. so finding the play, I think is important, right? It's a big part of us finding that. with your, you know, the kids that you're playing, kids that are playing your sports and doing these things, finding that sense of play and making it fun while also making that work a big part of that I think can be, that's where the synergy comes because if it starts to become so much like work and it...

detracts away from this unique experience of sport, it starts to become something routine. In the 500 meters in 2006, I had not reached my goals at that Olympic Games in Torino, Italy. And I had this final race. It was a 500 meters that I was not very dominant in all year. And I remember walking into the arena and it was for the first time not raining and snowing in this competition. I decided to run on the outside of the rink. I remember running on the outside of the rink thinking like, man,

this is what this is all about. This is why you began speed skating. It's this beautiful routine of trying to find your flow state and be in this high performance component where you're just like, there. You feel like you're Neo from the Matrix, right? That's what I was seeking. This is why I started, you know? And that's where that sense of play came in, where I was reminded by this sense of why I began in the first place. This is why you do what you do. And there's a sense of play with that. And it was less about the outcome.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:16:23.822)
The athlete who won the world championship, his name was Neo. So that's incredible that you said that. Wow. That's cool. That's a great name. Thank you, Apollo. I like your father have wanted to leave my kids in a cabin somewhere. And I'm curious because in today's world, especially for me, raising my two boys, I'm always curious in that level of harshness. taught competitive tennis for years and

I saw the results of parents who formed sort of like your father did. And the results were pretty clear. I did see some lack of maybe some passion in life from that. And so my curiosity or question for you is at what point did you start to see your father in a different way? And what was that turning point for you, if you could elaborate a little? Yeah. And by the way, like what my dad and how my dad coached me and gave me that opportunity is not the blueprint for everyone.

fully understand that all of us respond differently to criticism, to coaching, to positive affirmation, to negative affirmation, right? I was in the camp of I responded really well when you told me I couldn't do something. I responded really well when someone told me that I was less than and that I was disappointing them. That's how I got the fire beneath me.

Even to this day, I'm conditioned by that. So I fully understand that. When you say like, when I saw my father in different way, I see my father is this like incredible philosopher today. And I'll give you an example. My dad teaches me even to this day, he doesn't give me answers when I ask him questions. Sometimes it's very annoying. So like I'll ask him, you hey, are you going to come down from Seattle to hang out for this holiday?

And he's like, something about like the Olympic mountains that he saw, and like the clouds clearing, and then it's like haiku. And I'm like, what the hell? Is this for me? I was like, did you send this to me? And he's like, Polo, please read, right? And I'm like, anyway, I'm just like, have to, it's like a riddle, you know? And I'll give you one example is I recently moved from California to another state, as I'm sure like, you know, you guys all live here. So I'm sure many people have also done the same here.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:18:46.164)
And I was like questioning, you know, my move. And my dad responds and he's like, once a large ship leaves the port, it cannot go in and out of port. It must stay on path until it reaches destination, until it can unload cargo and set a new map for what's to come. I'm like, huh, that's very interesting, you know? I'm like, so I'm like a VLCC like carrier.

Carrying cargo? Anyway, I say that because I have so much love for my dad because the way that he teaches me is in this way of like, my dad was never, he was never a businessman. So finance and learning how to run a business was never a part of our conversation. But my father was deeply interested in how, as I grew, how I would be with people and how the fundamental

moral and ethical values of what he does. So my father is an incredible human. And I'll give you an example. dad doesn't make a lot of money, but he goes to work every day because he owns his business and he feels responsibility for his business. So when there was riots and there was protests in Seattle and for blocks, all of the other vendors and shops and stores were boarded up. My dad in his glass window stayed open and he went there every single day.

And I said, that sounds dangerous. Why don't you go? Why don't you like just you have insurance? He goes, no, this is mine. I have to go because it's my responsibility. And it also gives him a sense of purpose because my father had been in the same hair cutting location for like 40 plus years. So he's like the community psychologist. Right. You sit in the barber shop, you know, he's like cutting people's hair who don't have hair anymore. Right. It is like they just need to sit down and talk to somebody. You know.

And so throughout that, my dad has done a very, very good job of understanding people. And that's what he had kind of given to me was like, here's how life is. Here's how people are. And here's how the world is changing. And it's up to you. And so he basically said, don't put a ceiling over your own expectations of your life, but also don't be driven by what other people have. Figure out what's most important to you.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:21:10.434)
and ask yourself this question. So my dad is, I started looking at my dad differently. think actually after I was probably 17 or 18, I started to see that there was something different in the way that he was raising me and also just the way that he lives his life. Like he doesn't live his life to be super wealthy or successful. He lives his life just like so that he can just barter money for food basically. And he doesn't struggle, right? But that's how he lives his life. And to me, it's like so simple and he just loves it.

You know, and to me that's a great life. It's simple and he loves it. Like, I know it's amazing.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:21:49.38)
So I believe I'm going to wrap this up with not as much a question, but something that I stole from a podcast. The question that the gentleman asked was, which medal was your favorite and why? Oh, very easy answer for me. So I'll try to make it short because you all have been so patient just kind of waiting here. So my favorite medal is the first medal that I ever won. It was in the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City in the 1000 meters. It was also a very crazy race.

And the color of the metal was silver. I got second place in this race. And people say, well, what about the gold medals? Like, what about your perfect race in Trino when you won gold in the 500 and like, oh, that was amazing. But this is the race that was the most defining in my life. And the one that's really the most relevant in my life today. And the reason why is so 2001, September 11th, we remember what happened 2000, right. And that time period, like World Trade Center, Pentagon, like lots of chaos, lots of lies lost.

very high level of uncertainty around travel on our country and the Olympic Games are being held six months after that. The first large global scale event being held on US soil in Salt Lake City, it felt like a massive magnet for being a target. So people were really questioning if we should actually have the Olympic Games and walking the opening ceremonies. I was 19 years old at the time, so it was hard for me to really understand what was happening. I remember we watched what happened in New York.

Some many of our teammates are from New York and so it was devastating but I remember walking in the opening ceremony and some of my peers and teammates had had been chosen to walk this flag in that was flying at the World Trade Center and as they walked this in you know, this is like the middle of February. It's the beginning of February in 2002. You know, the president was there at the time like two rows behind me and we were just watching this moment.

And as they walked in, it was completely silent. No one said a word. And it was just this incredible visceral like energy that had like reverberated throughout this entire stadium. And I remember like feeling, you know, am I getting cold? Because I feel like like goosebumps and it's just this unexplainable feeling. And, you know, the thousands of people there

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:24:15.845)
in solidarity, in unification around Team USA. And patriotism was probably at an all-time high from that point on. And so in my first race, I was supposed to win. I was in the cover sports illustrated. They had like predicted me to win four gold medals these Olympic games. And in this race, I was the dominant favorite. And I was in the lead with like a quarter of a lap remaining, which means there was two seconds left in the race.

out of a minute and 30 second race. And all of a sudden, an athlete falls into the side of me and all of us go crashing into the pads. I fell like this with the pads behind me. I remember I just like stabbed my own leg with my blade because of the jolt of my back hitting the pads. And I scrambled on my feet and I threw my skates across the finish line. And it was at that moment that I didn't know what happened. I was deeply unsettled because I knew that I didn't win.

and I felt like something had been stolen from me. Like I was deserving of this medal and someone else took it from me and that was BS and I was the victim. And I remember getting off the ice in this frantic state also because I wanted to watch what just had happened on the video. I didn't know what just happened. And I was like, they going to rerun the race? What's going to happen? And in walks Brent Hamula who at the time was our sports physio.

So he's the guy who like managed like our injuries, massage therapy, stretching, all that type of stuff. He had been with us for many years and he comes in with this crazy look on his face because you know, I had asked someone to radio Brent because I had this hole in my leg. As I like ripped my racing suit down, I was like, that's definitely not normal. And he comes in and he's just like, he looks at me and he's like, that was the most incredible race I've ever seen in my life. That was amazing. How did you get up? How did you get up so fast?

win silver. And I was like, man, here I was about to live the rest of my Olympic experience and possible life in this stew of bitterness, because I believe that I was wronged by someone else, that I was deserving of life had taken it from me. And I don't know what changed in my psyche at that time, but

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:26:42.089)
I remember going out and Eric Hyden, was a legendary speed skater, actually stitched my leg up. I don't know, people maybe don't know that. He's actually an orthopedic surgeon in Park City now. And it's pretty cool, like Eric Hyden stitched my leg. I don't know. As a speed skater, that's like very, important. I remember walking out or getting like wheeled out because I was in a wheelchair. I this huge ice thing on my leg. They like had super glued my leg and everything.

put the stitches in and as I go out there I decided to walk and someone had asked me you know Paul how does it feel like to have lost the gold medal and I said something along the lines of I didn't lose the gold I won the silver and again like this and I went out there and I celebrated getting that silver as if it was gold and you know there's like there's hundreds of stories that people have told me since that time of their experience walking into the Reno

as people who I don't know who they are, And I just heard a story the other day about, I'll finish the story, sorry. So this medal was so, it was so significant because to me, and it may not be true, but to me it represented what we had just gone through. I was American, we felt like we were the best, I was patriotic, I felt like because I was American I had a sixth gear that nobody else did. I mean, it makes no sports science

you know, logic at all. But I believed it. And so I just believed that like I wanted this more than anybody else and therefore I was gonna get it. And at the snap of finger I was brought to my knee, just like what had happened in six months prior. And all of us had re, had started to question many things in our life. And I remember going out there and hearing the cheers. And that was just so important to me.

And then when I felt what people had heard and seen versus me saying, you know, I blame it on someone else and I was wronged, which would have been very natural and also like somewhat acceptable, right? Because that's you're in the emotion of sport. Like that would that's that would have been a normal response. And somehow I didn't say that it said something else. And I think it really helped and changed a lot of people's view on how appreciative and grateful we can be for the opportunities that we were given. And I was grateful for that. And I saw my father who I was afraid that he would be disappointed.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:29:06.203)
And he had this beautiful smile on his face. He's like, did so good. And it just felt like, man, we placed so much emphasis on the results and it's all about how we actually respond to crisis. That's what it's all about. How we respond, how we react when the unthinkable happens. Right? That's actually the most beautiful thing. So that's why that's the most important. And one of the stories that I just heard the other day was,

John Curley who is a he's like a broadcaster in my hometown in Seattle for a long time had gone to the Olympic Games in Salt Lake City and two days before he had went like one of these Hobby Lobby shops and he bought this huge like black fur and he had been like chopping it up all night in these little pieces that they put stickers on or sticky tape on the back that people put on their chin Because I used to have this goatee

and he was standing outside of the arena on the day of my thousand meter final and he was just handing them out to people. Right? It's like Santa Claus, say hello. And then this guy walks over with like this M4 or this whatever, you know, this machine gun, who was like part of the special forces that are like surrounding the entire place. He's like, give me the bag. Give me the bag. And John's like, no, this is like our hometown boy. Like you don't understand. He's like, give me the bag. Takes the bag.

And then John explains to what he's doing and why he's doing this. He's giving these out to random people. obviously they're a little bit afraid of what's happening. What is this guy doing? So the guy takes the bag and John's like, well, to the new cast, he's like, well, there goes my fun. And then he looks behind and he notices the guy who goes on the other side of the security line. And he notices something very peculiar that he wasn't expecting. By the I just heard about this story literally three days ago.

20 years later. And he says, he notices peculiar activity. He's like, what's going on? What is that? What is that man doing? And every person that walks through, he would ask them, American? They say, yes. said, put your hand down. Boom, he slapped down the little thing.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:31:17.513)
Everyone would just take it, right? Because you get this guy with a gun basically giving you something. You're like, let's just do this. And not American, get inside. Keep going, right? Anyway, it was like, so that's why, that was a very unique moment in history and time. And it was a result of something that was very devastating. And there was a silver lining that I was deeply grateful for. And so that's why that race has also just unfolded in my life so many times.

where I thought that I was deserving of something, I thought that I was in the right place at the right time, and then life just reminds me that sometimes you're actually not in control, and that's okay, but you can either stay down or you can get back up.

Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:32:19.155)
don't know about you guys, but it was what an experience to be in the room where it happens, right? It's so powerful to experience words and information in these stories in community in this physical space. I'm so grateful to be here with you, Apollo. We're to let you go sign some books and take some pictures. And I think Julie is going to come up and just speak to our sponsors a little bit.

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Freddie Kimmel and Apolo Ohno (01:34:14.013)
My friends, you made it to the end of the podcast. Can you believe this is season four? Wait, don't turn it off yet. Before you go, I have something very important I need to say. There are two ways in which we can build this relationship that we've been working on. The first one is to join me on my membership program at buymeacoffee.com forward slash freddysetgo. You get early access to all the podcasts, bonus episodes, discounted coaching, and free webinars

with thought leaders in the wellness and technology industry. The second way to support this guy right here is to go to freddycedgo.com and download the Beautifully Broken Buyer's Guide. This is my ebook. It's a collection of transformational technology, supplements, and courses that have worked for me, my clients, and my family. These are things that I have found incredibly helpful in my personal healing journey, like the Ionic Foot Bath or Amp Coil or the Red Light.

Most offer significant discounts by clicking the link or using the discount code. Now please know they don't cost you anything extra and at the same time they do support the podcast through affiliations. Friends, thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's show, head over to Apple Podcasts and leave a review. Five stars if you loved it and well, I guess if you're compelled to listen to this entire thing and leave a one-star review,

I'm gonna take that too. If you want to connect with me directly, I spend most of my time on the social media platform known as Instagram at freddysetgo. Or you can find me at buymeacoffee.com forward slash freddysetgo or freddysetgo.com. And lastly, from my vast team of legal internet lawyers, which I pay a lot of money to, the information on this podcast is for educational purposes only. By listening, you agree not to use the information found here as medical advice to treat any medical condition in yourself or others. Always consult your own physician for any medical issues that you may be having. That's all for today. Our closing, the world is changing. We need you at your very best. So take the steps today to always be upgrading. Remember, while life is pain, putting the fractured pieces back together can be a beautiful process. I love ya. I'm your host, Freddie Kimmel.