High-Frequency Healing: Reversing Neuropathy Through Nervous System Stimulation

 WELCOME TO EPISODE 278

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Freddie Kimmel (00:01.495)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Beautifully Broken Podcast. We are back with Dr. Jeff Miceli. Jeff, welcome to the show. Good morning. Where are you located in the United States?

Dr Jeff Miceli (00:08.482)
Thanks for having me.

Dr Jeff Miceli (00:12.62)
Nashville, Tennessee area.

Freddie Kimmel (00:14.403)
Beautiful. I love that area. I've got a lot of friends in Franklin.

Dr Jeff Miceli (00:18.584)
Yeah, I mean, that's basically where I am, yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (00:20.993)
That's where you're at. Beautiful. Jeff, if we, now the audience doesn't know this, but we met this weekend at the Regen Conference down in Clearwater, Florida, which I thought was an incredible, incredible event. But if we bumped into each other at the conference, what would you tell me you do in the world of wellness?

Dr Jeff Miceli (00:42.03)
At the moment, I say that because I feel like my path has changed many times over the years and what I was doing. But at the moment, I own a company. I'm the founder and one of the owners of a company that manufactures equipment to help people with neuropathy and balance problems and other things like that.

Freddie Kimmel (01:06.435)
Beautiful, beautiful. And obviously I would say that because we're in this, we're in the river of the beautifully broken podcast. So it is this, this time when we face adversity and, use that usually to, come up and make the world a better place. How did you get started? Like what made you want to work in this, this container?

Dr Jeff Miceli (01:28.568)
So honestly, not intentionally, just kind of out of necessity. When I graduated school, I got a four-year degree in biology and chemistry first. It was pre-med. I actually wanted to be, or I thought I wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon. And then once I had orthopedic surgery myself when I was in college, torn ACL, I changed my mind. And...

I was like, okay, well, I know I still want to be some kind of doctor. What am I going to be? And there were friends of the family. didn't know them too well, but they were chiropractors. And I was like, well, that's interesting. And learned a little bit more about it. And I was like, these guys live pretty good lives and they're helping people. you know, interesting. The requirements are the same to get into school or real similar. So I already had all that met. And so I went to chiropractic school, graduated there.

Opened my own practice, pretty standard type of practice. And then I just kinda, I don't wanna say I got bored with it, but I kinda, one of those guys that I need new things, right? New things to figure out and conquer, if you will. And I was introduced by a friend to a new way of taking care of patients with metabolic diseases and autoimmunity. And it was about using lab tests and natural means and.

People today call it functional medicine. Back then it was so new, it almost didn't even have a name really. expanded that, grew that into a really large practice and that was a lot of fun. And then I wanted more practices so I could help more people. So I opened more practices and the additional was opened, focused on, one in particular focused on neuropathy. And we...

were pretty exclusively on neuropathy practice. That's all we saw. If a patient didn't have neuropathy, they weren't coming to see us, right? So it was just neuropathy. And I was sitting there one day and I was looking at what we're doing for treatment for the patient and patients are getting tremendously better and it's a lot of fun. And I'm looking and we're giving the patients a piece of equipment to take home and it was this vibration plate, right? So I'm going.

Dr Jeff Miceli (03:50.126)
Well, that's interesting. It's kind of like a massager, but not quite. It was called a Medi foot rub. They still make them today. And when I say today, I mean, I'm going back 2011, 12, so what, 14 years ago, 15 years ago. So I'm looking at that and I'm paying attention to how it vibrates one day and I'm like, okay, we're giving it to all these patients and we were giving it to all these patients because that's what

I learned from a colleague who was having a lot of success out in California. So I said, well, we'll just do what he does. It's working for him. But then I started to question what I had learned from him. Because I was always looking for ways to get better results with the patients. was always, what can we do more for people? And when I was looking at the vibration plate, I was like, OK, so it vibrates.

you know, it shakes basically, right? And when we test the patient for neuropathy, you test multiple different fibers, nerve fibers. You're testing how they can sense pain. So you kind of poke them. It's not comfortable, but you have to do it. You might sense, you're going to test light touch with a little like a, almost like a fishing line to see it real light touch to see if they can feel it in all different places. Cold heat.

Those types of things you're testing the sensations in their feet and hands where they have the neuropathy. And one of the things that you test that's really important is vibration. And we use this thing called a tuning fork. A lot of people have seen them. They'll see people maybe, you know, talking about them for sound and they hit them and it makes a sound of different frequencies and whatever. Well, your lower frequency tuning, one of the lowest frequency tuning forks there is, is a 128 Hertz. And it doesn't really, it doesn't make any sound.

Right? Not, not, I mean, maybe a little, but you'd have to put it really close to your, it's not for that. It's not intended for that. It's intended to test vibration on patients. So it's 128 Hertz. So I'm sitting there going, okay, we're testing the patient with 128 Hertz tuning fork to see how much the neuropathy has progressed or to what extent the damage has been done already. Right. And we're sending them home with this vibration plate that vibrates at

Dr Jeff Miceli (06:12.942)
40 Hertz. And I thought, huh, that's a big difference. I wonder if that matters. So I started doing some research. And when I'm digging into all the research, and it is hard to find research on it, because it's not a very well researched subject. And I started finding research on it. And then turns out there is a massive difference. So naturally, I was like, okay, we need to be sending them home with, you know, something comparable to the tuning fork, right?

128 Hertz because there's a cutoff at around 100 Hertz where everything changes into not like a physical stimulation like a massage but more of a neurological stimulation so you're stimulated in the nervous system and you're getting a whole bunch of different responses and reflexes when you when you jump over that threshold and it makes all the difference in the world so I was like great now where do I find a device that does that surely someone makes one searching searching

Freddie Kimmel (07:03.203)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Jeff Miceli (07:13.27)
Nope, no one makes one. So I called my dad. I said, hey, dad. He was recently kind of retired, right? And he worked for a long time for the DOD and in aerospace engineering and manufacturing. So Lockheed Martin, Boeing, you know, we had secret or top secret or whatever, clearance, all that kind of stuff, right? So he was an electronics guy. He knew electronics inside and out.

actually certified to work on the NASA space shuttle, all that kind of stuff back when it, when there was one. So I said, Hey dad, can you build me something that does this for my patients? He said, Oh yeah, that's not a problem. So, you know, back and forth, you know, no, that's not, you know, change it. No, make it more like this, you know, whatever. So he builds this thing and I said, Oh great. So I put it in the clinic and I started putting patients on it and I went, wow, there's, there's really something here to this. So then we started making like a smaller version.

Freddie Kimmel (07:45.304)
Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (08:10.602)
And so I could send it home with the patients because that was the ultimate goal. And we just started seeing like tremendous results and you know, results that other stuff just wasn't doing. And the confusing thing was it's such a simple thing. Just no one figured it out, I guess yet, right? One of those things. Like surely somebody had already thought about that or what? Nope. So, so I'm enjoying the success of helping the patients and things are going well. And then I started having

Dr. Friends of mine, colleagues going, hey, what are you doing? What's that? that's really cool. Like, can I buy that for my patients? And so I called my dad, who at the time was just making them in his garage for me, right? I said, hey, dad, do you want to make some more for some other guys? And he was like, oh, yeah, sure. And it just turned into a business. And by word of mouth alone, since COVID, right before COVID is kind of when we just got started.

Producing it for other people You know, we've grown into a rather large company quickly purely by word of mouth No social media. I I we might have accounts. I'm not even sure I can promise you I've never posted on them or I don't think anybody has if we even have any No marketing no commercials Nothing bare-bones website for the longest time. I mean I still have old pictures of the model two generations ago on the website

It doesn't even look like that anymore. and it's just my point for saying that is, is, you know, the device itself was all that was needed, right? Just word of mouth, just one, every, every day I get phone calls from doctors. Hey, I, I, heard about your thing that you make and I wanted to, you know, get it for my patients. Maybe can you, can you, can you tell me about it? Like, I don't understand. Cause they really don't know.

Freddie Kimmel (09:41.347)
Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (10:08.171)
really anything about that technology or about that therapy in a sense. I, I educate them and I go through all the research and all the articles and I share all the information with them, they're just, their mind is blown and they're like, wow, how did I not know about this sooner? And then, you know, that's, that's what brought the company to where it is. They, very proud of it because of that. Like we didn't have to like, you know, brand ourselves and message and, and, and market and spend all this money and never spent any money. Didn't have to. So.

Freddie Kimmel (10:10.659)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (10:21.911)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (10:37.08)
That's right. Yeah, you provided an experience. You provided results.

Dr Jeff Miceli (10:37.976)
So that's, that's, that's where I'm at right now. Of course. Yeah. And I sold my clinics back right before COVID too and stuff. So it's just kind of, it was a transition and I owned a supplement company for a while. That was kind of fun. but yeah, various things, but right now my journey is, is, is on this path with this, therapy that, we're, we're really changing lives and it's fun hearing the stories from the, from the patients, from the doctors, you know, texting us and emailing us and sending them in and stuff. So.

Freddie Kimmel (11:07.606)
Amazing. Jeff, can you go into the... just if we're going to talk about neuropathy, can you go into that pathology a little bit just for people who hearing this and they don't really understand what's going on with the body? Why the degeneration of the nerves? Why the loss of functionality? What's happening in the terrain?

Dr Jeff Miceli (11:27.352)
Yeah, so you have different reasons why people develop like causes behind neuropathy, but generally the mechanism is mostly the same across the board. And what I mean by that is you can have diabetes cause neuropathy, right? That's the one of the most common ones that that's that's a most people think that that's the only way you get it. It is definitely not the only way I'd say it's

probably 60 % of the time or so. It's diabetes, maybe a little bit more. So it's not all the time. And then you can have autoimmunity, which is rarely ever diagnosed. Those are your cases where they're like, I don't know why I got it, but I got it. And they don't have diabetes. A lot of those cases, it's autoimmunity where the body is attacking itself.

And then you, statin medications, it's a common side effect in statin drugs and a lot of people don't know that. And it's not well published, but you'll find articles on it. And what I can tell you is, with treating patients over the years, if we had a patient that just was just not getting better and they should, like we're just scratching our heads going, why are you not better? Right? Like everybody else. And then you kind of go through their prescription list and you find that statin on a pretty big dose and.

Freddie Kimmel (12:26.734)
Wow.

Dr Jeff Miceli (12:47.022)
you help them with their diet, their lifestyle, and then their doctor reduces their statin meds or eliminates them, and lo and behold, neuropathy gets better. Now that's not to say that people listening to this should stop taking their medications, okay? Don't do that. Always talk to your doctor. But I'm just sharing a story. This is not intended for medical advice.

Freddie Kimmel (13:11.308)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had neuropathy. you know, I had done a big retro peritoneal lymph node dissection. We've talked a lot about that on the show and I had done a good amount of chemotherapy. So, you know, there were areas where peripheral nerves down each side of my leg that was definitely impacted. Like I could, I'll tell people at home, like I could slap my thigh and it would feel like I wasn't touching my own leg. It was just like, I could feel vibration, but there was no, like, there was no pain.

Dr Jeff Miceli (13:21.784)
Yep, chemo.

Dr Jeff Miceli (13:38.306)
Yeah, that's, chemo is actually probably the second most likely cause. I mean, maybe behind autoimmune, it's kind of, it's tough to really tell. There's not a lot of data out there on the autoimmunity, right? So your statins, autoimmunity, chemo for sure, diabetes. I mean, these are your major causes. You can get, technically, neuropathy is a funny term because the word itself is a very vague description of what's going on, right? So it just means,

disease of nerve, Neuropathy, pathy is right, disease and then neuro is nerve. So it's just nerve disease, right? That's what it means. like, well, what is that? Well, that could be a thousand different things, right? But when people use the term neuropathy, they're typically talking about peripheral neuropathy, which means not, you know, in the torso or center of the body more.

Freddie Kimmel (14:13.892)
That's right.

Dr Jeff Miceli (14:36.526)
peripheral like hands feet, right? Legs, hands, feet into the arms or whatever. And typically peripheral neuropathy comes from what we just talked about, but technically it could come from like a spine problem too. A failed surgery, a disc problem. Usually when it's one of those, it's gonna be in one appendage, not usually both. It could be. And then to make it confusing, some people have peripheral neuropathy from diabetes or

One of the sources we talked about and they also have a back problem that produces some form of neuropathy in one foot or the other or something like that. So then there's like blurred lines and it gets crossed. There's a lot of confusion there. Even a lot of doctors don't quite get that for some reason. Um, but yeah, it's a disease that unfortunately mainstream medical really doesn't know much about the really don't. And I think there's a big, you know, misconception out there that, you know,

my doctor knows everything about everything. And it's like, knows everything about everything. The body is so complex. I firmly believe that we, human race, Like human species, like I think that we understand 5 % or less of what's going on in the body. And I think people's perception is that we know it all. It's like, no, no, we don't.

Freddie Kimmel (16:02.084)
Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (16:05.39)
I think that's why they call it practicing, right? We're just practicing. It's never...

Freddie Kimmel (16:08.471)
Yeah, I am practicing. I really do believe that. I think sometimes that, you know, the way we supplement the form in which we take in supplemental deficiencies, which we think the body needs, I know in 10, 20, 50 years, we're going to look, we're going to turn around and be like, my God, can you believe that was a trend? Whatever it is, whatever it is. But, you know, that's generally what happens. Can we just go into a little bit of the, like, the pathology of like,

Dr Jeff Miceli (16:28.866)
Right. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (16:37.603)
Let's just say diabetes. Right?

Dr Jeff Miceli (16:39.33)
Yeah, so I didn't answer, I'm sorry to cut you off, but I didn't answer your question. I was gonna get back around to that, sorry, but you did ask why does it happen? And I talked about the causes first, but all of those causes we talked about, they tend to have a common mechanism that they do, right? And that's really damaging the blood vessels, but not like arteries and veins that you can see, the ones you can't see, the really little ones, right?

Freddie Kimmel (16:44.697)
Do it. That's right.

Dr Jeff Miceli (17:07.564)
So if you can imagine like a nerve is like a wire, right? It has this thing called a myelin sheath around it. And it's like the coating, the plastic coating, a rubber coating around a wire, that sheath. Well, that nerve and that sheath, they're alive. So what do they need in order to live? They need oxygen, they need nutrients, right? How are they gonna get that? They're gonna get that with blood supply. Well, there's really tiny little blood vessels that kind of wrap.

In case and wrap around like a spiderweb would just be stuck all around the outside of that wire if you could imagine that right just Really tiny little blood vessels like like like so tiny right like spiderweb type stuff Just stuck to the whole outside encasing it. There's your blood supply and that's how your nerves live and survive now the the issue is is These diseases or these these problems that we just talked about a few minutes ago

Freddie Kimmel (17:44.357)
That's right.

Dr Jeff Miceli (18:06.316)
they tend to damage, especially diabetes and chemo. mean, they're just so aggressive on those blood vessels, right? High blood sugars or diabetes and chemo and stuff like that and things we talked about, they just destroy and damage those little blood vessels. So as those blood vessels become damaged and the blood flow doesn't really work to them anymore and they kind of shrivel up and if you can imagine them pruning up and kind of like not working well anymore or even just going away completely, now that nerve,

doesn't have the nutrients and oxygen and blood supply that it needs to live. So the early warning signs are symptoms, right? Symptoms are like a engine light in your car, right? When the engine light comes on your car, if you like your car, you're probably gonna take it to a mechanic or take it to the dealership or somewhere and be like, hey, I don't know what's wrong with something's not right, right? You're not gonna drive it anymore. You're not gonna just take a piece of tape.

put it over the engine light, like, problem solved. I'm just going to ignore it, right? If I don't pay attention to it, it doesn't exist. That's not probably going to go well for you, right? Your engine, your car, it's not, going to break down. So the symptoms in our bodies are essentially like warning lights. They're trying to tell us, hey, something's not right. You need to do something different, right? So, you know, those symptoms might start out as, you know, a little bit of numbness or a little bit of balance issue.

or these things that you think are not a big deal and they build over time and next thing you know, becomes a big deal when people experience what? Pain, right? Pain's a great motivator. People are like, well, I gotta do something about this now. Maybe five years ago, if you'd have done something three years ago, two years ago, maybe you wouldn't be having the pain right now, but a lot of times you don't know what to do, right? And your real problem is those blood vessels,

they need more blood flow. Cause if they get more blood flow, then the nerve starts to function more normally and it becomes healthier again. If you don't do that, it tends to be like a downward spiral. It's a very progressive disease, right? And what that means is you think of a vicious cycle, like the less blood flow equals less nerve function equals less blood flow equals less nerve function. It just keeps, you know, going down.

Dr Jeff Miceli (20:32.874)
And a lot of people don't realize this, when you have this neuropathy, not in your case where it was chemo derived, right? And then the chemo was removed. Okay, so cases like yours, typically they get bad or they can get bad. But once the chemo stopped, they kind of like, they stopped progressing, right? Cause the cause is now removed. Then it just becomes a question of, okay, can we get it to go back to normal or how far can we get it to go back?

Freddie Kimmel (20:54.885)
That's right.

Dr Jeff Miceli (21:02.254)
towards normal or is it just gonna stay where it's at? But typically not, if you're not getting any more chemo, it's probably not gonna get worse. But that's not generally the case with diabetics, right? It's very progressive over time typically. Because even the smallest blood sugars elevated cause damage to the nerves. They're very, very sensitive.

Freddie Kimmel (21:23.052)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. 100%. You know, the other thing I just want to add in because there's a, you know, there's so much overlap in what we're talking about. And we talk a lot about lymphatic drainage and those microcapillaries that you're talking about that you describe very well, like these spider webs at the ends, like every single day, I never knew this, but the body leaks about 20 liters of plasma through these microcapillaries to feed.

Dr Jeff Miceli (21:23.95)
Does that?

Freddie Kimmel (21:50.298)
these cells in the tissue. So you can think about this, these rivers literally running dry. And so there is no oxygen. There's no, they're not picking up the cellular waste. There's no exchange happening. So that's what's happening there. If you can just, you know, and everybody's seen, if you've had a family member with really bad neuropathy and you know, the feet actually start to change shape and change colors and you see a degradation of the toenails is literally like I'm watching tissue dying.

Dr Jeff Miceli (22:15.394)
Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (22:20.226)
Well, it's literally like when you have neuropathy and it's progressive, if it's getting worse and if it's progressing over time, you really need to adjust the way you think about it. It's like, well, what's really going on? Well, your foot and your leg, they're dying slowly. That's what's happening. And it's probably going to die before you die. And if that happens, then you end up with amputations. Neuropathy is the number one cause of amputations in the United States. Number one, by far.

Freddie Kimmel (22:36.74)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (22:47.267)
Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty wild and it's pretty wild. so things like, you know, again, from my sphere of influence, I know things like pulsed electromagnetic field, which boosts circulation and cellular voltage, different oxygen therapies, even like bagging the feet with an ozone bag. You know, I could get lymphatic drainage. there's so many different therapies we can do. I know we mentioned vibration, but now I want to get into why is vibration.

Dr Jeff Miceli (22:57.72)
Yeah, I love that.

Dr Jeff Miceli (23:05.422)
Thank

Freddie Kimmel (23:16.013)
a possible modality which complements this terrain and like this vasculature and the blood flow and why does not all vibration deliver the same results?

Dr Jeff Miceli (23:26.392)
That's a good question. So I want to draw a contrast first, So clinical like research. Research is a big deal, I think, but I don't think you can always hang your hat on it, right? So for instance, there's really, I don't think there's too much research. I haven't seen much on like PEMF, right? But I know that it has positive effects on the RAFIA. I've seen it. I have a machine myself.

I love my DMF machines. I think they're fantastic, right? They're very pricey and a lot of people don't understand them. The good news is, is they really can't hurt you. mean, obviously if you have a pacemaker, you can't use it in different situations. You can't use it. So you should always check with your doctor, but not a lot of people know a lot about them, but they do work, right? But not, not heavy on the research. So

Freddie Kimmel (23:53.519)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (24:18.936)
When we talk about vibration, there is enough research on vibration. I'm talking, when I always look at research, I really only look, you know, NIH and PubMed, right? So I'm really interested. Yeah, I mean, you know, you can find studies other places, but how valid are they? And what did it really take to get it published? I mean, most people don't realize how rigorous of a process it is to get a paper or an article published. So then it's out there and especially for the government to put it on their government website, right?

Freddie Kimmel (24:27.824)
Sure. Same. For the most part.

Dr Jeff Miceli (24:47.79)
There's a lot of hoops to jump through to make sure it's valid, the study, right? And it makes sense. So it goes through audits, it's reviewed by other people in the field. They check it off and say, yes, it can be posted. There's a lot going on there. So anyway, when I refer to research, I always refer to research on the government websites, put them in, which is NIH, National Institute of Health, right? So when you look at the research on vibration, it's very cut and dry.

which is really nice. So low frequency vibration like the power plates you'll see at the gym, the big plates that shake. Everybody has seen those at their gym or whatever, right?

Freddie Kimmel (25:27.524)
Yeah, power plate is like in, if you guys are listening and you happen to have access to a Lifetime fitness, Lifetime has actually the brand, it's called The Power Plate, is in Lifetime, these great big plates.

Dr Jeff Miceli (25:41.422)
Yeah, I actually belonged to Lifetime. yeah, they have power plates there and there was all the gyms that have them, but everybody's seen them, the big plates and it's a kind of trend right now. You you see it on TikTok and different, I don't go on TikTok, but people tell me, but you you see it, I think Instagram, see it in different places where people are like, oh yeah, I'm vibrating, you know, to try and lose some weight. I'm not sure it's that effective or not. People swear it is. It can be.

Freddie Kimmel (25:43.908)
Me too.

Dr Jeff Miceli (26:09.858)
Those are low frequency vibration plates. I would describe them more as instead of vibrating, I would consider what they do is more shaking, if that makes sense. So those, what people are trying to do with those is move lymphatics, like you talked about earlier, and you know a lot more about lymphatic movement probably than I do, I'm sure. When you move lymphatics, you're gonna move stuff out of the body, make everything work better, faster. Definitely, if you're trying to lose weight, you have to eliminate the fat.

You have to break it down and then have to remove it. Lymphatics are gonna help with that. So, weight loss, massage, lymphatic flow, that's what a lot of people are using these vibration plates for. If you're trying to increase the blood flow to the little tiny vessels that go to your nerves, and you're trying to stimulate the nervous system, this is not gonna happen with one of those vibe plates. And the research is very clear on that.

They did, there's been several studies done where they showed that there was zero difference in blood flow when you use low frequency vibration like those plates are. There was no difference between those therapies, that therapy and the sham, which is like the placebo, like fake. I don't know how you give somebody fake vibration, but they gave them fake vibration. think they just told them it was vibrating.

Freddie Kimmel (27:27.529)
Can you tell me why you-

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, right? How do you do that? Can you tell me why you think that is? Why is there no increase in blood flow when we're shaking some?

Dr Jeff Miceli (27:39.112)
It's actually really simple. It's not simple, but so the blood flow increase that happens with vibration happens at the higher frequencies only. And the reason why is you're stimulating different nerves. And what happens is, is you stimulate nerves that sense true vibration. When you stimulate those, there's a reflex that happens.

And that reflex is a neurological reflex, kind of like knee jerk reflex, like you hit your knee and your leg jumps, the doctor's off to little hammer. So there's a reflex that happens and that reflex is dilation of those small vessels with more blood flow, which is really cool, right? You don't get that with the low frequency. You definitely do not. And if you are getting any increase with the low frequency, that increase is probably due to inflammation and histamine release.

Freddie Kimmel (28:08.388)
Yes. Yep.

Dr Jeff Miceli (28:32.206)
because it's irritating the tissue. That's not why you want more blood flow. If you're trying to heal, you don't want more blood flow in the form of histamine derived because that's just gonna create problems the next day and the day after more inflammation and you're gonna slow down the healing process potentially. And there's research on that on PubMed too as well.

Freddie Kimmel (28:37.221)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (28:50.202)
Yeah, let, yeah, let me give you a real life example. So, goodness, where were we? We were probably at, maybe it was, it was in Austin, Texas. were at an event called KetoCon and there's a guy there and he has the really old school vibration plates that are just really slow frequency. It's got handles on it, you know, and, and everybody's getting off and they're saying, they're like,

Dr Jeff Miceli (29:11.842)
Yeah. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (29:19.124)
my kidneys and my lower itch is so bad and everybody was sort of saying it so I've seen that happen and I've had it happen yeah so what's again from a physiology biological response what is happening there my I'm shaking histamines loose what's happening

Dr Jeff Miceli (29:27.916)
Yeah, histamine is very itchy. Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (29:38.412)
No, you're irritating the tissue and then your body is releasing histamines because in response to that threat, if you will.

Freddie Kimmel (29:45.563)
Yeah. And there's no way and there's no world from because sometimes the process of hormesis, right? I make myself really inflamed when I go do leg day and I go squat and then in two days because I have recovery because I have nutrition, I'm stronger. You don't think there's a hormetic response from releasing?

Dr Jeff Miceli (30:02.712)
Yeah, it's different. We're talking about lactic acid. No, it's different. talking about lactic acid and the muscle fibers. It's a different situation than an external aggressive stimulus.

Freddie Kimmel (30:16.986)
Yeah. And so it's this reflex response that happens at this higher frequency range. We've mentioned 40 to 50 Hertz, some of these lower vibrations. What are the therapeutic ranges that we start to get into?

Dr Jeff Miceli (30:32.526)
you really want to get over a hundred hertz and ideally even up towards, you know, one 50 or even higher. and most people have never felt vibration like that. So it's real simple. Like I think maybe that I don't know, and I should know this, but I don't know like a phone, what they vibrate out, but I can tell you it's definitely a higher frequency than, you know, four year 50, right? It's, going to be up there. I just don't know how high, but if you can imagine

when they go, what's the difference, right? Cause that's what most people try and visualize. Cause everybody makes comparisons to understand, right? Well, if you can imagine one of those shake plates at the gym, where it's just like shaking your teeth out of your head, right? If you turn it up, they feel and seem like they're shaking very fast. But if you compare it to the vibration on your phone, your phone vibrates much faster, way faster. Does that make sense? Yeah. And there's a lot of research too, that I've seen that

Freddie Kimmel (31:23.524)
Yeah, that makes sense.

Dr Jeff Miceli (31:29.922)
you know, says that the vibration when it's really fast like that, it also must be low magnitude. So low, low amplitude. So you not much movement. Like the device that we manufacture, we make it in Florida. We're very proud. It's made in the USA, right? it's, it's very low magnitude. Like you turn it on and you don't see it doing anything. It's not moving. It's not shaking. But then when you touch it, you go, that's different. You're like,

It almost feel, it's such a high vibration. almost feels like, almost some people say it feels like electrical stimulus. So we'll get that question all the time. Like, Hey, is it safe to use with a pacemaker? Yes, it is. Because it's not electrical stimulation. They think it is, or they're confused by it. They don't understand. Cause it's not a typical, you know, feeling that you feel anywhere in our environment on a daily basis. It's, it's a feeling that most people have not experienced before. you only get that with the

Freddie Kimmel (32:03.931)
Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (32:24.834)
very high frequencies and we're stimulating the nervous system in a completely different way. But what's really fun is I know we're talking about blood flow. We're talking about neuropathy, but one of the cool things is when you go to the higher frequency, you get a direct stimulation to the posterior columns, which is where you get a lot of your balance from. So we've seen so many cases where you put people on it to have poor balance, they get up and that day they literally start walking better. Balance to stimulate that day. And then there was a PubMed study where they did on

pretty good size study and they did on Medicare age patients, right? So older population. And they showed that they did 12 weeks. I remember it was 12 weeks of high frequency vibration used a hundred Hertz or more. It was a 100 or 110 something like that. And they saw significant improvements in everyone's balance. And the really interesting thing was not only did they get quick changes there, but

three months after the study had ended, they brought the people back in and they wanted to see if they had returned back to where they were, if they lost all the gains or where they were at, because they weren't treating them in that three months. And they were very surprised to find out that the majority of the gains that they had gotten and everything that they had achieved during the study was still there. That was really fascinating, right? So we're talking about short-term and long-term change when it comes to balance, right?

Freddie Kimmel (33:28.231)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Jeff Miceli (33:48.206)
There's so many other applications like you can see you'll see pain calm down sometimes in 20, 30 seconds or five minutes or less. Restless leg people, a lot of people struggle with a restless leg. That is you do not have to. If you take high frequency, a high frequency vibe plate and you go ahead and get up when you're in bed and you're feeling the restless leg and you're like, I can't sleep, get up, go stand on it, turn it on three minutes, four minutes max.

Freddie Kimmel (33:56.231)
Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (34:17.826)
That's it. And you're going to be like, everything's calmed down. You're going to go back to bed and you're going to be fine. And you're going to probably sleep the rest of night without any problems with it. So that's really fun because that's immediate, right? The immediate stuff is always fun. But I get more excited about the long-term stuff for sure.

Freddie Kimmel (34:34.994)
Yeah. Yeah. So is there a training effect to using high frequency vibration plates over time? Obviously, I know that everything we're going to say is going to depend on that person and the train and the inputs and the movement and the nutrition and the age and all of that. But what do you see as far as people using it? And do you need to use this like your toothbrush or can I start to space it out after time?

Dr Jeff Miceli (34:59.95)
Yeah, you can definitely space it out after time, right? I think it's a matter of like, what I would do with patients is I would have them use it and other things too as well, but get to the point where they kind of like maximally improve, right? And maybe that's all better. Maybe that's 70 % better. Maybe it's only 50 % better. I don't know. But whenever they kind of reach a plateau and it seems like that's as far as the body's willing to, you know, go back towards normal or improve.

like call that maximum improvement, right? Then you can kind of go into like a maintenance stage, right? Where maybe you just, you know, do it once or twice a week or something like that. In a way that we made the device, it's a take home device. And for people out there, like I'm gonna search, I'm gonna find something on Amazon or I'm gonna go find, you know, a vibe plate like he's talking about. They don't exist high frequency ones. We're the only ones that make one. And we have our patent hearing later this month and we're filing more patents. So we are the only ones that do it.

you know, cause they think they can just go like get something for 50 bucks or whatever, hundred bucks, 300 bucks or whatever on Amazon. It's not gonna, it's, they're going to be very disappointed. So just not, it's not, it's not what it needs to be. And the other thing too, that's really important that we found, and this is backed up in studies and then also our research and clinical that we've done is the vibration can't be constant. It cannot run constantly.

you cannot run it for really more than about 45 seconds.

Freddie Kimmel (36:30.705)
Say more about that. Why is that?

Dr Jeff Miceli (36:33.164)
So because of all the different effects that when you stimulate those different nerves that receive the high frequency vibration, those are different nerves than sensing the low frequency stuff. When you stimulate those nerves, they are ultra, ultra sensitive, which makes sense because they kind of, there's a whole cascade of a bunch of different things that happen and reflexes that happen, so many different, way more things than I've even talked about.

all this different stuff like brainwave activity changes because you're vibrating your feet and like, and reflex times change in athletes where their reflex times can increase 30 to 35 % after only a couple of minutes, right? It's astounding, right? And we've measured that with computer devices and computer trials and like very, very detailed down to the, hundreds of a second, right? It's just wild to see that. So there's so many different things that, that, that when you stimulate

those nerves that happen in the body that are positively beneficial in so many different ways. Because it's so expansive in that way and the reactions happen so quickly, we're dealing with a very, very, very sensitive neurological pathway. So sensitive that it will fatigue in less than a minute. And when you fatigue it, all of those fun benefits that we're talking about disappear.

Freddie Kimmel (38:01.671)
Alright.

Dr Jeff Miceli (38:02.572)
It's that simple. I would equate it to this. like,

And the brain is also, the brain also doesn't like constant stimulus either. Okay, in the sense where if it's beneficial, the brain doesn't care if it's beneficial or not, the brain will kind of shut it down as far as it won't pay attention to it anymore. Right, so after a minute or so, not only are the nerves gonna get tired and you're gonna lose all that other stuff, any benefit you were getting to your...

central nervous system, your brain, primarily brain, there it's going to disappear, right? Because the brain is going to go, well, that's just constantly happening. and it's not a threat. I don't need to pay attention to that. Let me pay attention to this other stuff. That's, that's what it does. And the grid, the best example of this is when you put tight socks on in the morning, right? Or tight underwear or something like that, or whatever you're wearing, it's tight clothing.

You first put it on, feels tight, right? Still feel tight right now? It does not, right? How long does it take before you don't notice it anymore? About a minute or two. So the brain has basically adapted and said that thing that's squeezing my body is not a threat. It's gonna constantly do that. And I don't need to pay attention to it anymore. But when you turn the stimulus on and off and on and off,

Freddie Kimmel (39:06.641)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (39:10.639)
Yeah. No. Couple seconds. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (39:36.268)
you don't allow it to do that. And you don't think the nerves that's a big deal.

Freddie Kimmel (39:38.076)
Yeah.

I'm laughing because there's so much overlap in... I gotta mention two different technologies that are sort of fitting in the same container. One is a system called AmpCoil. It's a PMF device that uses proprietary sound journeys. So an audio, you know, 4 to 2200 Hz translated to a silent electromagnetic field. But...

some of the proprietary and I'm a I'm a on the advisory team and on the leadership team of Amcoil. We have a time in which we move off of specific frequency because she and our our scientists is always like, have you ever listened to someone play like, you know, like, you know, like 1500 Hertz just constant, she's like the body's eventually like, that's annoying. It's not music anymore. So you have a time in which there's this adaptive response. And so

We always talk about how long do you just want to like, you know, ping that one note at. You can't just, you're not going to get this physiological benefit. Right? And then the other thing that's really unique is that I know you were at the Regen Summit with us, we have these little vibrational wands that are a high vibration, but there is one that will do at, will, will do a pulse rate within the high vibration. we're stopping it, you know, every once in a while.

And that one in the literature, medical literature, has been shown to be the best for lymphatic flow. And we have, when we have lymphedema, when we have a known blockage in the lymphatic system. So that was another thing that we incorporated in this next iteration of this vibrational technology. But the body listens. Do you know what I mean? We can't, we have to honor, be like, well, what does it make sense?

Dr Jeff Miceli (41:19.852)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (41:27.664)
And I had called you initially. was like, I got to get this guy on the podcast. I had wandered into your talk for like 20 minutes. I was like, this is great. And one of my big frustration points is we go to all these big trade shows with all these different companies. And I always see these guys selling these vibration plates and you can, you know, the ones you can see the wobble, they've got lights, they're playing music at the, all the biohacking conferences, a four long jump, even legit medical conferences. And people are walking away with these plates for like.

Dr Jeff Miceli (41:47.074)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (41:54.605)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (41:57.865)
2900 bucks 3400 dollars. I know where they come from I know the base layer costs of these things I'm was like man. I feel so bad people are not only bringing buying these for wilds amount of money I mean if you get it on Amazon and whatever I mean and you feel benefit fine however, you know people are bringing these back to their practices and the medical claims

Dr Jeff Miceli (42:05.153)
It's nominal.

Dr Jeff Miceli (42:11.683)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (42:22.84)
on the list. It's like they're just cherry picking every, every medical benefit you could ever say that was associated with any vibration. There's no studies. There's nothing they've done nothing other than they're like a company's like, here's an opportunity to make money. Vibration. We vibration is good. Right. And it like, I want to run over to everybody walking away with a box and not to not to carpet bomb the company. But I was like, guys, stop. Wait, wait, wait. Anyways.

Dr Jeff Miceli (42:25.825)
Yeah

Dr Jeff Miceli (42:30.188)
Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (42:49.806)
I know exactly what you mean. the device that we make, it's not cheap. I wouldn't say it is either. But I can tell you that a whole lot goes into the R &D, the manufacturing. There's everything. The material that the top of our vibe plate is made of is not a traditional standard type of plastic. It actually behaves more like a wood. And it has a very

Freddie Kimmel (43:17.351)
Uh-huh.

Dr Jeff Miceli (43:19.282)
unique resonance where it transmits vibration very differently. We're so specific with that that we measure the thickness of it and it needs to be within so many thousandths of an inch. We measure it with a micrometer. And we also have a certain pattern that, I'm not gonna go into details because a lot of it's proprietary, but there was a lot of R &D that went into figuring out, right? We didn't just make something that just shook and that was it. And it was like, know, but that's what a lot of people do. They're like, you know, they're copying others or whatever.

And there's a lot that goes into it and it really needs to be done a very specific way. needs to be done right or else there really isn't any benefit. There's a small window and you've got to be inside that window. And we obviously protect that information because we're the only ones that do that. But we will, I'm sure, have copycats in the future. Yeah, mean, that's a compliment. That's a compliment in a sense. So that's all right. We'll let our attorneys handle that.

Freddie Kimmel (44:08.996)
You will. Yeah. And that's okay. You know, it's like, yeah. That's okay. That's okay. The, the other, I know, I know, let the lawyers handle that. The other, the other, you know, again, sister technology or maybe in the same conversation is that like, I had never had a great benefit from, there was a, God, what was it called? Like the hyper ice or

the Theragun or these percussion massagers that... Right.

Dr Jeff Miceli (44:38.283)
Okay.

Those are low frequency. They're quite low. People think that they're really fast. So low and high is a term that people throw around. And I'm going to give you the definition of it. And this is more on doctor terms, right? So the doctor's listening will be like, I think I remember that class. I remember learning that one day in class in school, whatever, right? But you've got Meisner core puzzles and Pisini core puzzles. They're two different types for the lay person, like sensors.

Freddie Kimmel (44:50.311)
Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (45:08.48)
Right? Like imagine your car has sensors, right? Like one of the sensors your car has is a temperature sensor for a lot of people, if it's a newer car, and it tells you what the temperature is outside. Right? How are you getting that information? Well, there's a sensor somewhere out somewhere hidden on the car, under the hood or near the bumper, wherever it is, right? And it's measuring the temperature of the air. And then there's a wire connected to that. And it sends that information back to the computer. And now the computer knows

what's going on, right? Think of the computer as the brain, the wire is the nerves, and that little sensor is a receptor. And you have these receptors all throughout your body and they sense all different kinds of things. There's different ones for different things. There's ones for feeling light touch. There's ones for feeling pressure, right? Being squeezed, right? There's ones for feeling vibration like we're talking about. There's ones for feeling cold, feeling hot.

And they all work at different speeds, which is interesting. And you've seen that this doesn't really have anything to do with this, but it's fascinating, I think. If you've ever grabbed something cold, you can immediately tell it's cold, right? As soon as you it, you're like, ooh, cold, right? If you grab a hot pot, there's a delay. You grab it and you go, oh, that's hot, and now I'm burned. Maybe not the best way that it...

Freddie Kimmel (46:17.064)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (46:24.776)
Mmm.

Dr Jeff Miceli (46:32.427)
works, right? That not advantageous for it to be slow, but sensing hot things, those receptors and those nerves are much slower. So there's a, you actually can see how slow it is. There's a delay from when you touch it to when you go, that's hot. And then you let it go. You've already been burned, right? If those nerves and if those sensors and the nerves were faster to sense hot, a lot less people will be getting burned. Cause you can tell right away and you would touch it and you would

Freddie Kimmel (46:48.04)
That's right.

Dr Jeff Miceli (47:01.752)
pull away right away, but you don't, touch it, you hold it and you go, that's hot. It's like a whole second. You don't talk about if you've ever been burned on something, right? It's just the length. So all the different pathways and sensors and nerves, they all work differently for each thing, right? So your vibration, your sensors that sense vibration, you really only have the Piscini core puzzles, which we talked about. That's the higher frequencies. That's what we stimulate with our device, right?

Freddie Kimmel (47:05.896)
That's right. yeah, all the time!

Dr Jeff Miceli (47:31.138)
Those Piscini core puzzles, those are very different from the low frequency Meissner core puzzles. The Meissner core puzzles are more like pressure sensors. And they're more for like texture feeling. Like that's how people can read Braille with the Meissner core puzzles and that pathway. That's how you feel pressure. You're simulating those sensors with the Theragun thing.

power plate with these vibe plates to see people walking around these shows all the ones out there you see that's what they're stimulating is there benefit to that there's some right but there's a very distinct line between the two we don't care about those things because people alaskas they go hey will this also help with lymphatic flow and will it also help with you know building muscle because you can build muscle on on on the vibe plates faster than you can you know just

Freddie Kimmel (48:03.486)
Hmm.

Dr Jeff Miceli (48:25.664)
Not because it creates the instability in the muscles. There's a whole mechanism behind it, but building muscle, you know, lymphatic, possibly lymphatic drainage, you know more about that than I do. And you know, weight loss and things like that. People will say, will your device help with that? And I go, no, not at all. And they were like, they look surprised and they're like, really? But it's vibrations. Like, but you don't understand. There's a very distinct line. We're, on this side of that line because that's where we want to be. Cause that's where we have, we're helping people with

plantar vasectitis and joint pains and neuropathy is the biggest one of course and balance is huge. I don't know of any other device that you in the world anywhere in existence where you can sit it in front of your TV, turn your TV on at night, turn it on, just put your feet on it and just relax and just sit there for a half an hour, hour, watch your TV show or movie or whatever you read book, right? your couch at night, sit there and your neuropathy gets better and reverses.

And certainly, don't know. No, I'm sorry. That's not accurate. There are devices that are passive devices where you can sit there, electrical, different things, PMF. You can do that for an neuropathy. I misspoke. What I meant was I don't know any device in the world where you can do that and make significant positive changes in balance. Because every doctor asks me the same question. Well, to help them with their balance, they need to stand on it, right? No. And then they go, that's confusing. Because they're confusing.

Freddie Kimmel (49:44.616)
Hmm.

Dr Jeff Miceli (49:55.596)
like doing active therapy, like physical therapy to improve balance, which you can do, right? It's a lot of work, right? But you can do balance exercises and improve your balance, right? Cause you're challenging that pathway and challenging the brain and you're going to adapt and you're going to get stronger in those areas. It's like any kind of exercise, right? But I don't know of any device where passively, which means you don't have to do anything. You can just sit in a seat and your balance gets better. Pretty cool. So

Freddie Kimmel (49:58.238)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Jeff Miceli (50:25.058)
We're after those things, so balance, the neuropathy, the rest is like the pain, brain wave changes, the beta wave change. We're gonna get really off on a tangent if we go down that road. But so many different applications for it neurologically, right? I guess the best way to kind of draw the line is like low frequency vibration is like massage, you know, and feel good and kind of it's physical stimulation.

In a sense, the high frequency vibration like we're talking about is neurological stimulation. They're just very different. So it's the best way I can describe it.

Freddie Kimmel (50:55.101)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (51:01.705)
Hmm.

Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. was going to say that the, I started to say that the massage guns that were percussive, I had never had a lot of long-term benefit. It always felt good in the moment, but then I'm like, I'm still stiff. This didn't resolve. A few years back, I had ran into the team from rapid release and I'd got one of their massage guns, which they were at the region summit as well. fabulous summit, by the way, we're going to have some people on from the summit. was just a really good.

collection of clinics and not an overwhelming amount of information and just it was so great. We'll talk about it more. but I had had really great benefit from this gun and so much so that I had went to, I had went to an event, they worked on like a hip flexor and stuff and all day long I was like, man, I still feel good. I still feel good. I still feel good. And I had been like, I want one of these massage guns. They're, they're expensive. It's, it's a, it's an $1,100, $1,200

vibrational device. But my understanding is they also work in some level of a high frequency, correct?

Dr Jeff Miceli (52:08.814)
They absolutely do. They're one of the few devices out there, right? That works at a high frequency level. I didn't say we were the only device. said we're the only vibe plate that does that, right? So there is a different application. Their device is designed for calming muscles down. That is what they use it for. It is engineered just for that. And it was funny because the people with the company, came over.

Freddie Kimmel (52:22.065)
Yes, and different application and one's active and one's more passive.

Dr Jeff Miceli (52:37.486)
to us and they were like, you know, they know us because they were the only ones in the space that do that. And they're really the only ones that make anything like that for that application, right? So they're unique as well. So they were like, hey, you know, I think we would like to buy, we want to buy one of your things. And I'm like, why would you want to buy one of our devices? And they were like, you know, probably take it apart and see how it works. And I was like, hard pass. So yeah, funny.

Freddie Kimmel (52:45.149)
Yeah, yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (53:00.028)
Ahahaha!

I love it. I love it. man, I tell you, every single entity I get to work with in this space, they have a disgruntled employee. have someone who went off and just hacked it and made it in China and then they come out with one two years later. It's just, I get it, nobody's immune to it. Nobody will be immune to it. It's one of these bummers about capitalism that it

Dr Jeff Miceli (53:22.092)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (53:32.062)
people see an opportunity and they're like, I can piggyback off that. Not understanding the development, the work, the heartache, the cost of doing. I always say this to people, you know, when we're working on the business model, the cost of doing business, it's service, it's support, it's warranty, it's education. It's building that really like along after the purchase is done. That's easy part. Then we build this relationship with the team and the customer and the people who are using that goes into the cost of the thing.

Right? You can always make it cheaper. There's this great meme of someone, can I do it cheaper? And there's this like beautiful wood banister that weaves around into like a horse. And then there's this straight banister where someone's taped like a plastic horse to it with duct tape. 100%.

Dr Jeff Miceli (54:08.876)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (54:14.452)
Hahaha

It's so true though, right? And you know, there's an old saying and this is, you know, not a hundred percent true, but there's a lot of truth in it. We'll say that is like, you get what you pay for a lot of times, you know? Yeah. And, know, and, and I hate to tease, you know, your listeners, cause they don't know anything about, you know, especially your doctors on here. If there's any doctors listening and they're like, I will need to know more from Dr. Miceli or I want to go find out.

Freddie Kimmel (54:29.031)
a lot of times.

Dr Jeff Miceli (54:45.932)
you know, his product is called NervePlate, the nerveplate.com. So the doctors can go there and they can message or text or phone in and they can ultimately get a hold of me and I can help them and answer their questions and stuff like that. And as far as if there's listeners listening and they want to purchase one, I mean, they can buy one on the website, but if you're looking to get one and get like some support with it, I actually have a doctor who

loves to talk to patients over the phone and he is a neuropathy expert. I believe he's in Chicago if I remember right. But I have his office phone number. I can share that. So if you have listeners who are like, I need to know more about this and I want to talk to a doctor and I need some advice on my neuropathy and maybe I want to get a nerve plate, you can get it through him and he can support you and stuff like that. But his name is Dr. Michael McVady, M-C-V-A-D-Y.

Freddie Kimmel (55:42.377)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Jeff Miceli (55:42.856)
His phone number is 708-220-0599. So if you got some listeners listening and they're like, I need some help with my neuropathy, but I don't know where to go. And I don't, I don't know. I don't want to go to the guy in my town or whatever. They can contact Dr. McVady. Super nice guy. Goes out of his way to help people by far. And you know,

Freddie Kimmel (56:05.77)
Very cool. Very cool. That's the first phone number we've ever given on the podcast in 277 episodes. You're fine to do that.

Dr Jeff Miceli (56:12.64)
I'm sorry if I wasn't supposed to do that. And I hope like 2,000 people don't call Dr. McVady and he goes, dude, what did you do to me, Jeff?

Freddie Kimmel (56:22.122)
I love it. I always, you never know. I just say beware, buyer beware. How many, what's your email box gonna look like? It all depends on what people need and what people are looking for. You know, I, again, as far as the body, you know, the expression, what's the disease, what's the malady, you know, tell me more about that person and create the living environment where the body can heal. That's what we talk about. Whatever the tool is, the tool is not important. It's the person.

Dr Jeff Miceli (56:29.571)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (56:51.252)
But it's fascinating to me that we have these innate mechanisms that have a clock, that have timing, that have nuance. This is the therapeutic range that's very small. And that's why we have guests like you, Jeff, and innovators like you. You've done this. You brought this to the world. Super exciting to me. And I think it's really, again, the idea that we can do some of these things without being on a prescription for the rest of our lives. That there's a mechanism within me that will allow healing.

Dr Jeff Miceli (56:54.787)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (57:20.22)
I just need to work with the right signal. I get stoked about that. Every time I hear it, I get stoked. I'm like, man, the body's amazing.

Dr Jeff Miceli (57:27.166)
If you don't mind, I'd like to sprinkle a little fun on the podcast and share one or two things real quick with you. these are, obviously I can't share all the ones I have because I have countless ones, but I have some testimonials from a few patients. give these to the doctors and the doctors call me and say, check out what happened or check out what I got. I get that every day. So I want to share some recent ones if you don't mind. I'll just read them.

Freddie Kimmel (57:54.815)
Yeah, do it. go for it.

Dr Jeff Miceli (57:55.456)
I'm going to read them right off my text on my phone, coming straight from the source. So these are all around the nerve plate, But this is high frequency vibration is what we're talking about, right? So this person says, I'm going to start from 16 years ago. I had a tumor on my lower spine and I had it removed. And there was a lot of nerve damage from the surgery going down my legs and into my feet. I was not able to walk very far or stand for more than a handful of minutes without incredible foot and back pain.

I'd have to sit and put my feet up for a while constantly throughout the day. I started using a NervePlate in June of 2025. I used it three or four times a day for 15 minutes each time. And I was so pleased that within a week, how much better my feet and back felt. And I'm now able to walk and stand and move around for four to six hours at a time with very minimal pain and quick recovery if I do sit for just a few minutes. Thank you so much, NervePlate.

I now, I now, I am now so much more active and enjoying doing things on my feet every day. Sherry Thompson. That was her name. She, she, she gave permission to share that. So this is, this one is from Lieutenant John Campbell from the army retired army. So he's a, a Colonel Lieutenant, Lieutenant Colonel John Campbell. So he said, you know,

Freddie Kimmel (59:05.055)
Love it.

Dr Jeff Miceli (59:25.868)
I think I'm a good candidate to write a raving review of your product. have neuropathy and I've been trying to treat it for the last three years. I've been to multiple doctors that do a lot of different modalities. Nothing seemed to work. I have a lot of equipment I use at home. Nothing seemed to work. I've been using my nerve plates since June of this year. This is just past. He just gave it to me this month or so. He said in that time, the circulation has improved significantly. My feet are now a nice pink color and now are warm to the touch.

They used to be pale and white and were cold to the touch. The hair has also returned to my lower legs. A true testament to the improved circulation in my legs, I believe. I use my nerve plate twice a day for 30 minutes each time. I've used other therapies in the past, but none were this effective. This device has been a true game changer for me. Thank you for doing this. Respectfully, John. So fun stuff. And then I got one last one really fast. This is just off of memory, not a text.

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:15.786)
It's so great.

Dr Jeff Miceli (01:00:22.336)
Actually, I do have it in text, but I'll share it with you. So when we were at the Regen Summit on Saturday, Friday, Friday, I had a doctor that, you know, he's one of our, I guess you'd call him distributor, I don't know, buys our nerve plates, gives it to his patients, right? He texts me and he says, hey, I gotta talk to you, I gotta talk to you. I don't usually get texts like that, right, from doctors.

Is there an emergency? Like what's going on? Like why would he call me if there was an emergency first of all? But so I call him and I go, hey, what's going on Dr. Kelly? And he goes, I gotta share this with you. So patient just came in the office like an hour ago. This patient had problems, had some failed surgeries, had some whatever. I don't remember the exact mechanism or why they had, but they had neuropathy both legs, right? And it was manifesting itself.

with primarily hypersensitivity. So he said, I would describe it as like a trigeminal neuralgia of the legs, right? in unbelievably immense pain. And you absolutely could not touch it. just, it would shoot the pain through the roof, right? If you touched her legs. So been like this for like five years, both legs, nobody can help. Nobody could do anything. Nobody could fix her. Nobody.

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:47.018)
Mm.

Dr Jeff Miceli (01:01:50.158)
Nothing. So the doctor, he's sitting there, Dr. Kelly sitting there, know, I'm looking at her and I'd heard her husband are sitting there across from me in the consultation. I'm literally like, I don't think I can help this guy. I can't, can't help them. And he said, you know what I'm to do? I'm going to put them on, I'm going to put her on the nerve plate on the high frequency vibration while we sit here and talk about her condition while I do a consultation. So he goes three minutes in, he goes, I'm going to try and touch you now.

Freddie Kimmel (01:02:15.188)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Jeff Miceli (01:02:20.386)
And she was like, real apprehensive, right? She was like, okay. So he reaches over and he touches her leg. She's like, no, that's weird. That actually feels, that feels okay. He gave her another couple more minutes on it he goes, now I'm going to rub your leg. Started rubbing her leg. She's like, my gosh, I can't believe you're rubbing my leg. So he tells the husband, you rub her leg. The husband touching her leg. Then the husband starts like crying. She starts crying. They're like, my gosh, you know, my husband hasn't been able to touch my legs in five years.

It was the first time. It was minutes, minutes on high frequency vibration. Now look, what are the long-term effects? Like how often are they gonna have to do something like that? What's the therapy gonna cause it? All that, that's questions, whatever. But how cool was it like that instant type of an effect, you know, that it has, right? And the doctor said like, you know, it was very emotional and it was fun. And I was in Minnesota just two weeks ago and I had a doctor come up to me and it was a similar type of thing where he said, I had this patient come in, 93 year old man.

Freddie Kimmel (01:02:51.092)
healed.

Dr Jeff Miceli (01:03:18.318)
couldn't really walk well, should have been using a walker, couldn't drive, and he had open diabetic sores down his legs. Just nasty, right? Like bad stuff, right? And he looked at him in the same situation. He goes, I don't think I can help this person, right? So he goes, I don't know what to do with him. He goes, so I just, I wanted to kind of just get him, not get him out of the office. He goes, but I felt bad. I didn't think I could do anything for him, but I want to do something or try.

So he says, gave him a nerve plate and told him, come back in eight weeks and I'll reevaluate you. But his neuropathy was so bad. This guy was like, I don't think he's going to improve or anything's going to happen. But let me try a nerve plate. I'll give it to him. High frequency vibration at home every night. I told him, dude, every night for like a half an hour, an hour or whatever, and come back in eight weeks and I'll look at you and we'll see. We'll go from there. He goes, I didn't think the guy was ever going to come back. Guy comes back in eight weeks. He was walking much better. He drove himself there.

and all of the open sores, the diabetics sores on his legs, healed up and gone. And this doctor was just amazed and he goes, I can't believe something so simple, right, as just vibration did this for this guy. And he goes, and now I can treat him with the other stuff I have and now I'm willing to take him on because now I feel confident, you know, we can make big changes in his life even more. So cool stories where, you know,

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:40.693)
Yeah.

Dr Jeff Miceli (01:04:43.967)
as a physician, sometimes you just have to try stuff. you know, and just because something is simple doesn't mean it can't be extremely effective.

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:46.943)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:53.183)
Just before we go, Jeff, because I want to be mindful of your hour and the listeners, the label of neurological conditions like MS or Parkinson's, which, again, there's not a blood test for either of these diseases, but there's symptom sets in which there is degradation of the myelin sheath, neurological tremors.

you know, what has been your experience, if any, with that subset of the population.

Dr Jeff Miceli (01:05:24.61)
Very little to this point and it's a very interesting area for us and we're exploring things there now and there's really no research yet but it's coming and we may do a study this year on it actually with the Carrick Institute.

Freddie Kimmel (01:05:36.5)
Okay.

Beautiful, beautiful. Well, it's the beautifully broken podcast. I want to close with a question for you. What does it mean for you to be beautifully broken?

Dr Jeff Miceli (01:05:56.706)
There's no such thing as perfect. It doesn't exist, right? Other than God. So no one's perfect. I think that you just have to do your best to try and help people and see what happens.

Freddie Kimmel (01:06:13.867)
Yeah. And if you could get a little magic wand, you can turn in everybody's iPhone into channel Dr. Jeff for a minute. What would you say to the planet right now in which we're, you know, a seemingly polarized device of time? Is there any message you'd give to the world?

Dr Jeff Miceli (01:06:34.688)
Yeah, I think that there's a lot of people that really just surrender to their condition because they've had it for a while and they've tried to do something about it and they sought out professional help and they didn't get the help that they wanted and they got the no answer answer. And then they just surrendered to their new belief and that new belief is like, well, I guess nothing can be done.

I would encourage people with, I don't care what condition or what thing you're suffering with or what help you need health wise, there is somebody somewhere that knows something about that that can help with that. Just don't stop looking.

Freddie Kimmel (01:07:17.068)
I love it. Jeff, thank you for being a guest on the Beautifully Broken Podcast. Big love.

Dr Jeff Miceli (01:07:22.946)
Thanks for having me.