Journeying through Holistic Oncology and Shared Death Experiences: A Conversation with Dr. Katie Deming

WELCOME TO EPISODE 192

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Freddie Kimmel (00:01.086)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the beautifully broken podcast. I am sitting here with Dr. Katie Deming. Katie, welcome to the show for a second time.

Dr. Katie Deming (00:09.357)
Thank you, Freddie. It's my pleasure to be here.

Freddie Kimmel (00:12.51)
Yes, as the internet sometimes does, we'll have a little disruption in service, but it's great. It's great. And I've had this thought. I was like, no, I want this recording to be perfect. I really want to have this conversation. Katie, if we were passing each other on the street and we bumped in, we're meeting for the first time, what would you tell me you do?

Dr. Katie Deming (00:32.319)
I am an integrative oncologist.

Freddie Kimmel (00:35.734)
Beautiful. And how did you find your way into that work?

Dr. Katie Deming (00:38.93)
Yeah, well, I started as a radiation oncologist. I went to Duke University and studied medicine and went into radiation oncology. I knew actually coming into medical school that I wanted to be an oncologist. I didn't know what kind, but I had an experience volunteering at hospice as an undergrad that really changed my life. And I loved the intimacy and the connection of being with people who were dealing with cancer. And that's what led me into oncology.

And then radiation oncology. And I practiced radiation oncology for 20 years and also served as a healthcare leader, ran end-to-end cancer services for a large healthcare organization. But in 2020, I had an experience that really changed everything for me where I saw what we were doing in Western medicine was not correct and that for me it felt misaligned. And so...

In 2022, I left my specialty of radiation oncology and have now launched an integrative practice to help people in a more holistic way.

Freddie Kimmel (01:50.062)
Beautiful. What are we doing wrong?

Dr. Katie Deming (01:54.394)
Wow. I think the question is like, well, this has been a really interesting experience for me because I'm so highly trained, right? So to become a radiation oncologist, I went to undergrad for four years, then medical school for four years, and then radiation oncology for five years. Didn't get my first job until I was 32. And what I'm learning now is that I was taught within a system

Freddie Kimmel (02:05.536)
Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (02:23.398)
It does exactly what it's designed to do, but it's designed really to treat disease. It's really designed to treat disease and specifically with pharmaceuticals, or in my case, very expensive linear accelerators. And I think the whole concept of Western medicine is backwards. And I think that it's taken me, it's like one of those things where I couldn't.

I couldn't see it when I was inside it. I just knew something was wrong. So starting in about 2019, I was like, something feels off, but it didn't make sense to me. And then in 2020, when I had this experience that similar to a near death experience, I just saw it. I was like, okay, this is not the way that the body heals. But the truth was is that I didn't know how it healed. I didn't know what the answer was. I just knew that...

inside something was telling me this is not the way, this is not the way the body heals. And now that I've taken several years, it's been since 2020 now, you know, three years and really studied how does the body heal? Like how do you create health in the body? Because everything I was taught as a medical student and as a resident and then as an attending, practicing radiation oncology was all about pathology. Like when something goes wrong, this is what you do. But the truth was is that

I wanted to know, well, what is the optimal state of the body? Like, what does it look like when the body is functioning optimally? And that's really what I've spent the time looking at. And I realized that, frankly, everything we do in Western medicine is backwards. And it's designed in that way. So it works exactly as it's designed. It's designed to fix problems, but it doesn't actually get to the underlying cause. And that's one of the things that I've really seen.

as I've stepped outside, it's like, they say you can't see the label from inside the bottle. Like I couldn't see the label. And the label on the outside is like, this is a system that is designed to treat problems, symptoms with medications, right? And so now that I'm outside, I can see that and be like, okay, there's a role for that. I'm not totally anti-Western medicine. I think there's a role for it, but I don't think that it is the primary way that we should be approaching healing.

Dr. Katie Deming (04:46.774)
and that my approach now is really looking at how do we restore health in the body? And also, how are we not fighting? Because this idea of fighting cancer is actually quite backwards, and gets people into this state of fight or flight and sympathetic activation. But the truth is that when we're fighting something that's within ourselves, we're fighting ourselves, right? And so my approach is much more of a healing.

Freddie Kimmel (05:01.742)
Mmm.

Dr. Katie Deming (05:15.51)
perspective of how do we start to work with our bodies? How do we understand how the body functions optimally and understand how Freddy's body works best, right? And everybody's body is different. And that's another part of Western medicine is all algorithm based. I pull up someone, I like look at, okay, their receptors are this, they're this and this and this. And then it spits out exactly what I'm supposed to do. But the truth is two people with that same disease, same markers and everything,

may need a totally different approach. So it's really looking at the individual and looking at how do we get back to ourselves? And it's not just physical, it's emotional, mental, spiritual, the whole package of bringing people back to themselves so that they can create health in their body. Because that's what we're born to do. We're born to be healthy.

Freddie Kimmel (05:55.255)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (06:07.508)
Yeah. Amen. We are born to be healthy. The body is a self-correcting, auto-regulating body with many complex systems. And we don't look at that when we're in, and to be fair again, to be fair, God, there's so many questions I have. I feel like the system that you just spoke of, first of all, I want to celebrate your work.

I want to celebrate the fact that you went the route you did. I often believe that to change the system, we need people that have been on the inside working out. We won't make the big change without it. So like you are like the great avatar. It's often sometimes harder, I think, for people to swallow the information of the bio individuality, complex organ systems. The, the, can we ask the question why I got my cancer, which Western medicine does not like to address is when someone comes from.

Dr. Katie Deming (06:36.922)
Yeah, absolutely.

Freddie Kimmel (06:59.158)
you know, electro herbalism or Chinese medicine or, you know, looking at energetic sense centers of the body or, um, emotional traumas. That's not a conversation everybody wants to have, but when you start to see the system as a whole, it starts to make more sense. How those layers are so important. Um, I would love to ask before I go into my, all my questions, what, what was the experience that you said that was a near life death experience?

Dr. Katie Deming (07:27.288)
It was.

Freddie Kimmel (07:28.598)
that changed your internal knowing that you had to do something else.

Dr. Katie Deming (07:33.286)
Yeah. So most people know what a near death experience is, where someone actually, their heart stops, they die, and then they come back and they're changed after that experience. Anita Morjani is like one of the best examples of someone with cancer who had a near death experience and really was changed by that. But a shared death experience is what I had.

And a shared death experience is something that is most commonly seen, it's not common, but when it happens, it's usually healthcare providers or emergency personnel who are at the scene when someone transitions. And what happens is that person who is with the person who dies experiences a metaphysical experience like the soul of the person who actually died. And that is what happened to me.

And I basically experienced what a patient experienced. I don't know exactly what she experienced. I can just tell you what I experienced, but it happened as she transitioned. I saw the light. I was engulfed in that love and light that is indescribable. I have no words for what that space was like, but I knew so many things in that moment. Like I knew that we have nothing to be afraid of.

whatever happens after this is actually amazing. That this actually, if anything, is the challenging place to be. That is just a beautiful, beautiful space. And the love and the beauty there is just incredible. So I had that sense of peace. And then I also knew that when I left here, that I would be responsible for how I lived my life. So...

whatever choices that I made, it wasn't, it's not like, oh, like, you know, heaven or hell. It was just that if I had done, lived my life in a way that was untrue to myself, I would be held accountable for that when I left here. And then the third thing that I had was just this sense of truth. And it's almost like we're antennas for information from the, the field.

Dr. Katie Deming (09:52.666)
And it's like my antenna was tuned. And all of a sudden after that, I could tell when something was, and I don't wanna use true, like in the, I don't know what's true. That's like one thing for sure. I don't know what's true, but true for me. Like what resonated with me. And so after that experience, I really had this sense of like what I needed to do and what I didn't need to do. And more than anything, I started to sense what was

Freddie Kimmel (10:03.85)
Yes.

Dr. Katie Deming (10:22.35)
not true for me. And it allowed me to then be like, okay, now I need to move away from that. And unfortunately, the thing that became so clear was that what I was doing with my career was not correct. And it didn't make logical sense, right? But this is where, you know, things that come through divine intuition or whatever don't make sense in this 3D reality. But I think that's because we have everything backwards, you know? So it's like...

It didn't make sense, but then I knew that I had to follow because I knew I'd be held responsible. That like, I couldn't at the end of my life point to my husband or anyone and say, well, I stayed and I did it because they wanted me to do it. It was like, no, I was gonna be responsible for what I knew and what felt true to me. And so it really fundamentally changed the way that I saw my life and the world.

Freddie Kimmel (11:19.551)
Yeah. Katie, in this shared death experience, how much time went by? And the other question I want to ask is, did you feel tactile sensations in your body or this just like a flash in an instant of a knowing?

Dr. Katie Deming (11:33.414)
Well, what I sensed was, I could sense her pulling out of her body. And so I sensed this pulling up and then like I heard pops, like pop, pop. And then all of a sudden, it was like the sky opened up but it's not even the sky because it was like everything opened up and all of a sudden it was just bright. And...

And when I say bright, I don't know that I saw it. It's like I perceived it in some way. And then I could hear her say, she gasped, and she was like, I never had to worry. And then she said, it's so beautiful. And then she was gone and I was just in this space and I could feel like I was just bathed by the most beautiful frequencies and love that I had never experienced.

I don't know how long because that's the other thing is that time doesn't exist in that space. So I just lost all sense of time. And the interesting thing about my experience is that oftentimes it happens when the doctors or the emergency personnel are at the scene of the death, like physically with the person. But what was interesting with mine is that mine happened when I was in meditation.

Like I was in meditation and I was connected to this patient but I wasn't physically with her. And I heard her voice saying she can't let go but it's not because of me, it's because of them. And I knew instinctively it was her family. I knew that she was dying because I've been with so many people who've died. I've cared for over 5,000 patients in my career and like 40% of my practice was palliative. So.

I took care of a lot of people who transitioned. And so I knew instinctively what was happening, even though it never happened to me. And so I just stayed with her in this meditation. And the total time of the meditation was about 45 minutes. And the reason why I know that this actually happened, because you might be like, well, how do you know that you were actually with her when she died? But what happened was is that I didn't know what happened right after I went to sleep. And I was like, I don't even know if I can tell my husband. I didn't tell him because I was like, this sounds crazy.

Dr. Katie Deming (13:52.498)
I wasn't doing drugs or anything. I was just meditating. But the next morning I woke up to a text from one of my colleagues who said that it was a picture of this particular patient and that she had passed. And then later as I was able to kind of reveal what had happened, she transitioned basically within five minutes of me finishing my meditation. So I know that this happened, but...

It was kind of a weird context and I didn't even know that something like that could happen, but we were entangled energetically. You know, and she needed my help and I was there, you know.

Freddie Kimmel (14:31.262)
Yeah, that's so powerful. That's so powerful. Now, because you've had this experience, is this something that you've researched and read into a little bit, the shared death experience?

Dr. Katie Deming (14:41.346)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and also like I realized, so the University of Virginia, there's quite a few researchers there who study near death and like, you know, past life memories, kind of this whole arena. And I realized there are different ways that it can be. Hey.

Freddie Kimmel (14:57.418)
Yeah. The dogs are conferred. The dogs always confirm when you're on. I'm serious. They always confirm when you're hitting a point that's correct. I've had this happen in many podcasts by the way. Yeah, they know. Oh, animals are so smart.

Dr. Katie Deming (15:07.642)
Oh, really? That's so funny. I love it. Yeah. Oh yeah, no, they're so tuned in. But yeah, so anyway, you know, it's one of those things where I didn't believe it until then it happened. And then also I realized like there's a couple of different ways that they classify it. And someone might call it a crisis connection where, you know, this happens where someone you love transitions. And say like my sister.

died, I might have this sense that it's when it happens, like something just happened and they call that a crisis connection. So mine is kind of in between a shared death experience where someone's physically at the scene and this kind of crisis connection remote where you're entangled with someone and so you experience what they're experiencing when they transition. So anyway, I've learned a lot. It's all new for me, but pretty fascinating.

Freddie Kimmel (16:03.638)
Yeah. Wow. It's so, so yeah, it's very, I feel this to be true. I know this to be true. I've, I've talked with other people in the, oh, goodness, we just went into looking at the information that's stored around the body and the magnetic layers with Eileen McCusick. And she was, we got onto the topic. I was like, well, do you think after Freddie is done being a human,

does this information, this experience like stay together? She's like, well, I don't know that, but she's like, I will tell you, it's fascinating to look at the people who go through a traumatic event and pick up like these dramatic skill sets or another language or can play like a full concertos on a piano without ever touching a piano. Like they're downloaded with this information. So I think she goes, my belief is that there are these pockets of information that

leave a person, leave a spirit, there's very powerful energy. And, um, there's a lot of stuff we don't know about, about reality. So it's just, you know, she's like, again, you'll, we'll never know, but I'm open to it all and I believe in it all. And I'm so happy that you're, you had that experience and it moved you to do something with it. So let's talk about what it, it really inspired you to do and change.

Dr. Katie Deming (17:23.366)
Yeah, well, it took me a little bit of time to make that transition out of Western medicine because it was my whole career. Like I said, I didn't have my first job until I was 32. So I trained my whole life to become this specialist. And all of a sudden I was saying, I'm not sure that I should be doing this. And my husband at the time did not understand. He's like, something must be wrong with you.

If you are not happy with making half a million dollars a year and working four days a week and doing good work and your colleagues love you and your patients love you, something must be wrong with you if you can't be happy having all of the things. And so that took me some time before I was ready to be like, OK, I hear you, and I also know that I have to do this. And so I.

like that the incident or the shared death experience happened in September or like basically the end of September 2020. In 2021 December, I finally made the decision and I told my husband, I said, I get it that you don't understand it. And the thing was, is that I think if I had said I was leaving and I was going to do this, that he might have been supportive, like he knew that there was a plan. But basically, I was like, I can't do this.

but I need to not do anything to figure out what I'm supposed to do. And that freaked him out. He was just like, you've got off the deep end. Like, what are you talking about? This makes no sense. And also he had things from his childhood where they had been raised poor. So there were lots of factors in there, but basically, yes. And so ultimately I'd made that decision in December of 2021.

Freddie Kimmel (19:08.546)
Lots of layers.

Dr. Katie Deming (19:16.754)
And then, but I had to give notice and I wanted to make sure that my team could hire into my position and all of that. So I finally left in the summer, July of 2022. And then I just took time off and basically dove into studying all the things about healing like I described. And then after taking about 14 months off, I launched my practice in October of 2023. And really my focus is.

helping people with cancer understand that healing is not just physical, it's emotional, mental, and spiritual. And I help people, you know, who are getting conventional therapy, help them get better results using their mind to, you know, focus and really get the best results that they can with their treatment. Also doing the emotional work that's necessary to heal the underlying causes.

of cancer and then detoxifying their body and getting clean. But then my bigger piece of my work, which is really what I want to be doing, is the deeper work, like really helping get at the root cause of their cancer because we know that cancer is not just a physical problem. It's metabolic like we described. So absolutely the things that we're eating and all of that are affecting our body. So the physical things that we're doing matter. But there's also...

the emotional, mental, and spiritual components and really helping people do the work to get themselves clear so that once they start doing the right things with their body, that they can get in alignment on all levels and really create optimal health in their body.

Freddie Kimmel (21:02.258)
Yeah, yeah, we are. Yeah, we're definitely we're working on the same mission. I have, I have so many thoughts about that. The did you voice when you left your position, why you're doing it that there was a deep knowing that you're like, I just I think this is broken to your to your team members to your administrators.

Dr. Katie Deming (21:27.466)
So my chief of my department knew, so I was very open with her. But I really didn't share with my colleagues because it was such a hard decision. And I think that I wasn't ready. Like I had to process, and actually today is the day that.

my podcast is being re-released. So I did a podcast called Born to Heal. I had done that for about a year in 2022, and I stopped recording when I left my practice. And actually today I relaunched and I'm sharing my story of why I left Western medicine. So today is the day that my colleagues will actually hear that story. But, and I've shared on some other podcasts, but I realized that

until you've done your own processing and work. It's, for me, it wasn't a good idea to share until I really knew what this was all about. And when you're in the middle of it, you don't know, you know?

Freddie Kimmel (22:34.166)
Yeah. I really, I respect that. I respect that process. And yeah, we, especially due to the way we interact in an online community and social media, sometimes there's a lot of oversharing. I think that actually can, um, you can get lost on the road. And as you said a couple of times in different ways, it's like you needed to understand, unpack and explore what was happening to you and, and what this really meant. So,

With this idea of the physical, the emotional and the spiritual levels of healing, what, what calls to you as far as like this deeper inner work of, of like you said, like, why, why do we get cancer? Like what, what's your thought on that? And then I know it's different for everybody, but if you had to start that conversation with somebody, let's say they're going through breast cancer or, um, thyroid cancer, what, how would you start that conversation?

Dr. Katie Deming (23:29.15)
Well, I think that it comes down to their story. Everyone has a different story and a different reason. And it could be for someone purely related to their lifestyle and the way that they're living and the foods that they're eating and kind of the stress that they have in their life. For someone else, it could be a traumatic event that happened. And I think this, for me, it all starts with hearing someone's story and really listening.

like really listening to what they've been through so that you can pull out the pieces because I really do think it's different for everyone. And it depends on what they've been through and the layers too, because it's not just one thing often. It's like, you know, we're stressed and we're not eating well and we're doing the things and then we have a traumatic event and our body doesn't have the resilience to manage that problem. And so then we get sick. And so it's really understanding

okay, what were they doing before they got sick? And oftentimes people know. I really feel like most of the time we know, we are sometimes our biggest deceivers. Like people will know, but then they're like, they don't wanna know. So then they are like, oh, it's this or that. But on a deep level, the one thing that I've found is that most people have a sense of the things that have contributed to them.

getting sick and the question is are they ready to address that? Are they ready to really accept that? And it can be hard, especially when you're talking about emotional work, you know, because then people say, well, okay, now I have cancer. Now you're blaming me. You're saying like, I caused this because I'm, you know, not managing my emotions or whatever. And I'm like, that's not it at all. We live in a society and a world.

that is full of toxic emotions, just turn on the news for five minutes and then see what we all went through in 2020, this is collective trauma. And so it's not people's fault, but it requires awareness to acknowledge we're responsible for all areas of our life. We're all gonna be exposed to things that are gonna be challenging or difficult or maybe toxic, but then how do we detox that? How do we help get ourselves to a place?

Freddie Kimmel (25:29.282)
Hmm.

Dr. Katie Deming (25:47.334)
of being healthy despite the fact that we are living in an environment that's actually almost um counter it's almost like designed to make you sick our society the way we eat the way we live the things that are valued in our society and also in medical the medical system it's not designed to make us well so you have to be aware of that and not like i really

Freddie Kimmel (25:59.007)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (26:12.658)
you know, in some of the health freedom spaces, people are really angry. And I understand that, like to be angry that, okay, you know, feeling like we're having things done to us. But when you understand how the body works, you understand you can't get angry. You have to just be aware and then make decisions to take responsibility for what you can do for your own health and wellbeing.

Freddie Kimmel (26:36.286)
Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And I just, this is coming, I'm just kind of getting a download, you know, with this space and like, what is it to be well? You know, I kind of have these boxes and I always do this checklist when I'm talking to someone, I'm like, are you flooding the body with oxygen? Are you flooding the body with electrons? What's your exposure to light? What's your sleep hygiene? In what way are you flooding the body with nutrition? And how are you off-gassing the nervous system?

And there's like this is simple wheel of like six or seven things. And I'm just like, was you're at a 10, just like, let's go, you know, and, you know, you find out that people don't know what a deep diaphragmatic breathing is. They don't know. What do you mean electrons? It's like, well, I'm indoors all day and we'll actually sleep terrible. And, you know, I try to eat good, but in reality, and then there is no management of the nervous system. There's no way to off gas these different layers that we bottle, bottle.

And then we have the wonderful drainage system of the body with the lymph. So sometimes I'll look at it, right. And I, because I think those things are all, especially when I'm running it, when we're somebody gets the news, you're like, okay, I have five tumors. You know, my markers are terrible. It's, it almost is an emergency situation in some ways. Like we've got to, you know, I, there's a thing of we meet people where, where they're at. And at the same time, it's time to move quick. Cause this didn't happen overnight. This has been a lifetime. So how do you.

Do you address those things or do you just really stick to the mental, the emotional, the sense of joy and wellbeing?

Dr. Katie Deming (28:09.082)
No. So for me, the work of Gerald Pollock has really changed the way that I see these different aspects of healing when we talk about physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. I knew that holistic healing and creating wellbeing in the body required kind of all of those areas. And I would say the practice that you just described of like grounding or PEMF or the electrons and sunlight

you know, all the aspects of connecting with our environment fall under the physical aspect of it. But Gerald Pollock's work is about the fourth phase of water. Are you familiar with his work? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so the water, the science of the water for me really explains why you need all of these different areas because our water is affected by the physical practices that you just described, but as well as...

Freddie Kimmel (28:47.15)
Very, we talk about that all the time, yep.

Dr. Katie Deming (29:05.542)
our emotions affect the water that we hold in our body. Our thoughts that we have affect the water in our body and our spiritual connection with water as the source of life. And also as like, as you clean out the body and as you increase the easy water in your tissues, I would say cells, but Tom Cowan would probably like, be like, there are no cells. So I don't know the truth, whether they're cells or not, but basically as we increase the...

Freddie Kimmel (29:08.846)
Hmm.

Dr. Katie Deming (29:34.138)
exclusion zone water in our body, we start to get clear. And remember how I was talking about that antenna that somehow my antenna was tuned from that experience by getting your water right through the physical, emotional, mental and spiritual practices, you start to tune and actually can receive higher levels of information from higher levels of consciousness. And actually something beautiful happened to you while you were describing.

Freddie Kimmel (29:56.3)
Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (30:00.554)
the, you know, these six things that you look at, like there's like a sun, like a sunlight or something. And then just the sun was just like streaming down on you. I was like, that is beautiful.

Freddie Kimmel (30:09.564)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (30:14.598)
Yeah, the universe knows. It's really divine. I said a couple times last week, I was like, oh hi, people are always like, oh, I'm sorry I missed this. I'm sorry I wanted to be here. I'm like, stop saying you're sorry. I'm a firm believer in divine timing. It's going to be great. I never get mad at it. Yeah, it's rare that I feel that aggression or anger. More deep appreciation for how things are presenting. And I was like, oh, what's this mean?

You know, my friends say, what the fuck, they say WTS, it's like WTF, it's what's this for? Um, they're always, they hit WTF, what is this for? And it really does things when you're doing this work, when you're doing the spiritual work, when you're taking time to meditate, when you're stepping off the ride of adrenaline and dopamine, that we are open to different levels of information that just sort of, they just sort of drop in. It might be a person calling you, it might be a podcast bumps up on your phone, could be a

Dr. Katie Deming (30:45.083)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (31:08.578)
message within meditation and it just and it happens it's really fascinating how much easier life is I found from my experience when you're open to these things and where do you are in a state of allowing you know I don't know what your thoughts are on that

Dr. Katie Deming (31:21.362)
Yeah. No, everything is always happening for us. That's something that definitely has been clear for me since that event. And even cancer is happening for you because it's a crisis. So crisis in Chinese is two symbols. The first symbol is danger and the second symbol is opportunity. And when illness is presenting itself in our body, it's...

an opportunity for us to heal something deeper. So cancer's not the real problem, but there's something deeper that needs to be healed and cleared out in order to get yourself in alignment with your higher purpose, higher self. So I always think everything, my children are like, mom, like my daughter didn't get the lead part in some dance thing recently, and she was devastated because just the whole thing. But

I was like, it's OK. And I comfort her, and I let her grieve that. I don't say this is happening for you in the moment, right? But I was like, I know this is happening for her. And I let her go through that grieving process. But then it was so interesting. Two weeks later, she went through this feeling terrible, terrible. And then it turns out that all these things lined up, that I was like, you know what? It's even better.

that you didn't get the position because several other things happened that positioned herself even better. So now they like made some other lead role for her. And now all of her teammates and the coaches are rooting for her because she didn't get it. Whereas if she had just gone in from the outset, they would have been like, well, she gets everything. But I was like, see, even when you think the worst thing happens, it's never the worst thing. It's always working out for you. You just don't know yet why this is happening.

Freddie Kimmel (33:15.411)
Yeah. Yeah, it's so true. And the other thing that comes up for me is this idea of how powerful words are in the interterrestrial dialogue as she went through that experience and how she would talk to herself. Like that's a powerful thing. I can remember little timestamps within high school when you're like, you want something to work out so bad and you pray for it and you wish it. And it doesn't. And then it's beautiful. On the other side.

Um, and with words or power, you know, there's this big thing, uh, within the online community, I see this people all the time when they're going through cancer, they say, fuck cancer, fuck cancer. I was like, well, from my experience, like we don't want to fuck cancer and make cancer children. We want to like really think about that. And I, I say this and I really do mean it. I say cancer is the best thing that has ever happened to me in my whole life. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

no way would I have this awareness or be able to have these conversations, have the network and community that I do and be able to have impact had I not had that really rocky experience at a young age. And even, even so far as saying, I'm, I'm glad it was like a 12 year period of not knowing and additional surgeries and all these other things. Cause unless I was so lost, I was like the

pressure cooker of asking a different question would not have come for me because I'm so stubborn and so it's exactly what I needed. You know, it's exactly what I needed to switch. And it's yeah, it's really, it's really interesting that F cancer, I, it really, it aggravates me because there's this thing that is attached to that and I don't know if you feel this way. If that's true.

Then we're saying to the universe, you're like, well, then we've got a super awful God who has given me this awful experience because He doesn't like me. It's like you're abandoned from creation as opposed to saying, if everything is a gift, it's for my growth. And I think it's really hard to say, well, this one was a gift, but this one, somebody just turned their shoulder on you. So sorry, Freddie. And it doesn't line up with the rules of math. Do you have any thoughts on that? It's like, no, we can't pick one or the other.

Freddie Kimmel (35:33.062)
It's either for you or it's all against you. And I'd rather think, I think Einstein said, you know, it's everything's, everything's a miracle or nothing is.

Dr. Katie Deming (35:42.754)
Yeah, well, I think that the thing about fuck cancer is its victim mentality. And I think whenever we feel like a victim, we've just given our power away, and then the growth is not possible. So like the resistance that you have towards that term for me is really about that. It just represents people being in victim and thinking like things are just happening to them. And I get it. So.

I because I've spent so much time in this space and I have so much compassion for people who are facing cancer, I think that allowing people to have that grief and to say, you know what, this is a really hard experience. And when you're going through it, you may not see the gift yet. But when you project that, that like something like cancer is happening to you.

Freddie Kimmel (36:13.654)
Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (36:37.05)
it creates this spiral that actually you lose your power and it's harder to get out of. And so if we're able to say, you know what, wow, this is really hard. This is not an easy experience and it's okay to experience that grief and let it flow because this is part of the issue is that we wanna become beings that allow emotions to flow through us and not get stuck, right?

So it's having that compassion, allowing that grief, and then helping people move through to see, OK, I have control. I can take responsibility. And they may not see why this happened in the middle of it. So it's taken you 12 years to go through this to really get to the other side. And so when people are in it having that compassion to be like, your words matter. And what you're saying,

has an impact on you. And actually my TED talk is all about language and the battle language and all the language that we use. The word survivor I think is terrible. It's tying people to the identity of the cancer, which is absolutely not what we wanna do. So language absolutely matters, but I have compassion for people and I understand why they say the things that they do because they're wanting to like get themselves like.

inspired to like fight something. But the truth is, is that when you start to understand that impact of the language, like the impact of the cancer or battle language or whatever it is, is that then you start to be like, oh, okay, I really want to be intentional about the words that I use because the words that I use have an impact on my body and what my body does. You know, so I absolutely language is a huge thing for me. And this is one of the things that I work with my clients on is

Freddie Kimmel (38:16.995)
Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (38:22.518)
How are you talking to yourself about this? And how do you want to talk to yourself about this?

Freddie Kimmel (38:26.782)
Yeah. I think it's, um, you know, again, I'll, I'll speak out of both sides of my mouth. I understand. I do understand it. Like I grew up on Rocky. Like I love the Rocky movies, especially Rocky three. Um, when he's like climbing up that snowy mountain to fight the Russian, I was like, it's so, you know, that mentality of the underdog, I understand, um, identifying with that position and also summit summoning in that experience to create the.

pressure cooker in which you feel you have the strength to make the changes necessary. Because not, I am a, uh, my genetic or design, my human design, I'm very much, I'm so, I'm hyper-compliant. Like, just tell me what to do and I'm going to do it. There is no question about follow through. I'm just doing it. Um, and not everybody is wired that way. So I understand there might be, there probably is a layer of the psyche that needs to build an experience or a narrative.

around driving someone in action and we all I know we all operate so differently. So I do have incredible deep empathy and understanding for that.

Dr. Katie Deming (39:33.602)
And also I think that it's been perpetuated on a societal level. You know, this fuck cancer, this, you know, the battle language, all of this is perpetuated out there so people see it and it's new for them. Like someone who, you know, is diagnosed, they've never dealt with this before, right? So then they're looking for these clues around them to be like, oh, do I want to, you know, and like you said, it's like summoning that inner strength. Sometimes people might need to use that just

temporarily or whatever to get themselves going. And that's one of the things also that I recognize is that the language that I would use is not the language that is gonna be helpful for someone else, but I just want people to be intentional and thinking about it. Like, what is this language doing for you? Is it ultimately gonna get you where you wanna go? And I think that we don't talk about that in society, but it's really important, especially when someone's healing.

Freddie Kimmel (40:27.346)
Yeah, it's so powerful. And it's like whatever you need to be your gateway into this experience. I'm a huge ice bath person. I understand the dopamine and the neurotransmitters that are released and the feeling, the felt experience. And then I understand from the evolving science what happens to our immune system when we have this hormetic stressor and we get an ice and it's like,

wait, my body can mobilize and attack against cancer cells on demand if I will it. So I like sharing some of those examples for people to get them really stoked. I'm like, look at this sample size of like 10 people who learned to like mitigate an immune response to botulism because of being in cold and optimizing their breath. So it's really exciting, like what the tools we have available today and how you can access.

that internal response. So I think there is language, but there's also some of these like human optimization tools that are available to us today. They're just incredible.

Dr. Katie Deming (41:31.386)
Yeah, well, and that's what I love about what you're doing is teaching people about all these different things. Because in some ways, it's hard for people to find that. There's not one place where it's all these different things that you can be doing to activate your own body to heal itself and deal with a condition like cancer. So I love what you're doing and sharing all of your wisdom and bringing guests on that opens people's eyes to what's possible. Because there's so much that we just don't know, right?

Freddie Kimmel (41:45.802)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Katie Deming (41:59.85)
that is not taught to us in school or anywhere else. It's like, you learn this stuff, unfortunately most people learn it when they get sick and then they have to do their own research to pull it all together.

Freddie Kimmel (42:10.654)
Yeah. And that's a really tough, I think it's harder now than it's ever been. You know, when I got sick there, what, you know, Google, I mean 2006, 2005, you know, the internet was up, it was just very sparse and the re the, the access to information was so different. Now there's so much and it's so varied. I, well, no way. And being in a crisis situation, you need it clear, you need it quick. You need it concise.

Dr. Katie Deming (42:29.918)
It's too much, almost. It's hard to know what to trust. And yes.

Freddie Kimmel (42:40.226)
So again, I just to celebrate you and what you're doing and this platform you're creating, it's needed now more than ever because I'll give the avatar of like once a week, once every two weeks, I get a message from a friend or a close community member that like, Freddie, I was just diagnosed with cancer. This is happening now, what do I do? And again, I'm not a medical doctor, I'm not functioning as a coach, I'm running a platform to gather information and long form content.

inspiring people to go find it. I do have directions to point people, but most often my two books that I go to now are like the Metabolic Approach to Cancer, which looks at all the mitochondrial function and all the things by Dr. Nascha. And then I love this other book, which is called Radical Remission, which looks at radical remission of late stage cancers and the commonality that those stories tell.

Yeah. And then I have about three or four centers, you know, across the US that I know are, they understand the systems of the mental, emotional, physical and spiritual, and they have the tools on site. So it's local, it's within the US, they're licensed medical doctors. You know, it's enough of a bridge that it's not too out there for people, albeit some are an investment, but it's like, you know, listen, I...

try to put it on like, okay, if I had a family member and they were open, where would I send them? And there's just like a couple places. So I don't, I don't know. Do you have, how do you resource people? Where do you start people off when they come in with the same Katie? This is what I'm dealing with. What do I do?

Dr. Katie Deming (44:25.922)
Yeah, so I think it is, like I said, individual before, but figuring out kind of the basics that I start with is, is making sure we start to get people clear on a physical level and the practices that you described there. So, you know, getting their water right, making sure they're drinking water that's clean and, you know, structured if possible. But then.

making sure their diet. So looking at the metabolic approach, I just interviewed Thomas Seyfried, who basically is one of the researchers at University of Boston, who, or Boston University, who wrote also a book, Metabolic Approach to Cancer, but looking at their diet and starting to shift them and making sure we make those little tweaks physically and then getting them grounding, getting them out in sunlight, doing the basics of getting them back in line with-

the physical connection with our environment, but then looking at, okay, what are the specific things for you? It depends on their cancer type, it depends on their history, but then connecting them with these other practitioners who can do the emotional work if they need that. And then looking at, you know, subconscious work, how do we program your subconscious for healing? And so it's a like multi-layered approach, but doing all the pieces. And the interesting thing is,

When I started this practice, I was really thinking the majority of the work that I would do would be people who are doing conventional therapy and helping them do kind of a more holistic approach. But the truth is, is that now I'm realizing the thing that really lights me up is people who are not doing conventional therapy and actually want to do all the pieces to help their body. Because

when someone's getting conventional chemotherapy, then it's almost like I'm fighting, we're fighting the things that are building their body up because they're getting the chemo. And the chemo is basically dismantling their easy water and also affecting their immune system and spiking their blood sugars and all the things. And so it depends on the person, but it's really getting these things in balance and making sure we're doing all the pieces. And...

Dr. Katie Deming (46:42.598)
it'll depend on where people are at and also fasting. So water fasting, getting people so that their GKI is less than two with a diet and then looking at water fasting and doing that. And if they can do a prolonged fast, I just interviewed Lauren Lockman who has the biggest water fasting facilities fasted 15,000 people in his career. And so connecting them with resources like that so that we can look at what are all the different approaches because

Freddie Kimmel (46:47.51)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Katie Deming (47:11.862)
There's a lot you can do with the diet and water and fasting. And then there's a lot of stuff that we can do on the emotional side and just putting the pieces together and not doing all of it at once too. People wanna do everything at once, but you need to layer them so that they start to get some traction on a physical level.

Freddie Kimmel (47:24.125)
Yes.

Dr. Katie Deming (47:33.906)
Because the truth is, is that, like I said, as you start to clean people out, their antenna becomes clear. They almost can't hear some of the information until they get clear. So building on the foundation of their physical practices, and then adding in the emotional and the mental, and then spiritual part is the last part of like really helping people get aligned. Because I do think that also creates illness in the body when we are misaligned with what we are actually here to do, it creates disconnection in the body.

and our body will show that.

Freddie Kimmel (48:06.322)
Yeah. I have a working theory on the diseases associated with capitalism. And I mean, look at the health of the US compared to other countries. This like just extreme capitalism, I would say unconscious capitalism at times. And I'm a huge fan of democracy. I'm a huge fan of the United States.

Dr. Katie Deming (48:14.171)
Oh, tell me.

Freddie Kimmel (48:32.15)
But if you just look at our statistics in the U S we are falling. We're like below Cuba for our level of health. I mean, we're like the richest country, but we are so sick and overweight and just, I mean, uh, cancer, um, Parkinson's metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance. Like you just look at the numbers. Um, and it's stunning. Like we're winning in all the buckets. And I'm like, what is that? Because with that excess, it's like.

Idol's time is a devil's mind. Is that it? Is it, which just like we are so plugged into the phone and the computer and hunched over our desk that there's no movement. There's no activation of the physical body, which needs to process these emotions, the energy in motion. That's I just, I look at, we're such a little interesting experiment, you know, in the United States, cause we have so much more than we've ever had before more luxury time than we've ever had through the history of time in the planet.

but we're more likely to kill ourselves. So what is that? Like you've got, there's not causative, but there is a correlation there in some of this experiment that's going on in the US. Anyways, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (49:39.95)
Absolutely. No, absolutely. Yeah. And it's all of those diseases that you just cited are all the same, right? It's all the way that we're eating, which is basically inflammatory to our bodies. It's disconnection with the natural elements that our bodies are designed to be connected to, like the sun and the earth and the water. And then it's the fast pace.

Freddie Kimmel (49:47.658)
Right. Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (50:06.858)
Basically, as a society, we're going faster and faster and faster to accumulate material things, right? So it's really materialism. But as we focus more on materialism, we get further and further away from ourselves. And ultimately, our health reflects that. And it requires, that's why at the beginning of this, I explained that it requires a conscious awareness that the way that society is.

teaching us to live is making us sick. And so you have to recognize that and then say, okay, how am I gonna choose different? And then the question is knowing who to listen to because you're right that there's so much information. It's almost harder now to know what to do because there's so many voices. And that's one of the things that I want to be is a credible person in the space for healing and specifically with cancer of that, no, there are like,

there's science behind this, there are actual things, interventions that you can do that are credible. You know, I think that's the thing is because there's so many, and also the other thing is, is that there's been propaganda to say all these other things are, you know, natural healing and complimentary approaches and all this stuff is woo and not.

based in science, but that's not true. It's just that the money is not there, right? So there's all the money in the pharmaceuticals. There's not money in diet. So like water fasting, who's doing the big studies on water fasting because there's no money in it. Again, it's like medicine works exactly like it's designed. Our society works exactly like it's designed based on the pharmaceutical companies, the food, big food, agriculture industry. All

Freddie Kimmel (51:30.144)
Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (51:55.35)
to keep us kind of stuck in this paradigm of sickness, frankly. And it requires just becoming aware and not to be afraid. So that's one of the things that I had to caution myself, is you don't want to be afraid of everything, but you just want to be aware. And also, it's not perfection. You're not going to get all of these things right. It's progress over perfection. So for I Teach My Patients, we're going to do this week, we're going to get your water right.

Freddie Kimmel (52:16.352)
Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (52:20.934)
And then next week we're gonna work on grounding. You know, it's just like adding on and if you're doing these little pieces, eventually you start to create health in the body. But if you just go with the stream of what's happening out there for sure, like you said, you're just gonna get sicker. And we are, we see it.

Freddie Kimmel (52:24.438)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (52:35.978)
Yeah, it's, yeah, we do see it. It's, it's so wild. I, my friend, Christine Dainese, she's, she says this phrase, she says the burden of proof is not, not on me. You know, so it's, I, I take that and I'm like, okay, what does that really mean? Cause that was like, Oh, I remember having to explain myself and why I'm doing what I'm doing and what the, people were constantly challenging me with, you know, I'm putting ozone in my butt or I'm, you know.

hyperventilating and doing, you know, breath work. And I'm doing, you know, what I'm doing dry fast, whatever I'm doing. It's like met with a lot of resistance and, you know, people are triggered and they're, they're moved into a state of fear. So there is a sometimes element of like, well, that's irresponsible. Do you really know what you're doing? Is there any science behind? And I'm like, yes, here's what I have. And then of course the science is often challenged or they're like, well, that's not valid. When was that done? Who did that study? What's the sample size?

with that, right? And it's like, this is the inner play I don't think people realize. And I was always shocked by this. I was like, it's amazing to me. I feel like I'm being, my experience right now is that you're attacking me. And I'm trying to do everything I can to put my body back together. But this is a learning experience for me. When you said there's evidentiary proof, there's valid, there's science behind this, like,

I want to talk about that for a little bit because I remember, and when I went, I told the story, so sorry, audience, 200 episodes. I go to the emergency room. They're like, you have nine tumors. We're doing this tomorrow. Like you're, if we don't do this, you're going to die. And like, I did this crazy surgery called a retro peritoneal lymph node dissection where they were like, shoot, took this out, took it all back, put it in. We did it a couple of times. And

The reality is we got in there and the tissue ended up being necrotic. You know, it wasn't... So I had all these complications as a result of the secondary surgery. Albeit, you know, I just... A lot of it, I was driven by fear. So when we're talking about things like the efficacy of chemotherapy, like, is there enough information to make an educated decision to say, OK, here's my option with chemotherapy. Here's my other option with like...

Freddie Kimmel (54:59.026)
mistletoe injections and dry fasting and mitochondrial support and how do we how do we work through that picture of like what is valid science?

Dr. Katie Deming (55:09.474)
I mean, I think it's difficult because the other piece that we're not talking about is some of this information is suppressed in addition to it not being funded. So you don't have the big studies. Some of it is suppressed. So I think that it can be a challenge. I think this is the thing where when you start to compare the way that the paradigm is set up, when you compare like, you know, the science that's done by these pharmaceutical companies, it's really well

It's hard to compare that with them saying, okay, we're gonna put together this, and the other thing is that it's a complex plan. So healing cancer is not just one thing when you're doing it holistically, it's like a thousand things all broken up into, little pieces that you pull together, whereas with chemo, they're like, okay, it's the one thing, but the one thing, this is like, if you really look at the data, this is one of the consults that I do is helping people make treatment decisions.

So looking at the options that have presented by their doctors and really help them understand, OK, what are the benefits of this? What are the potential risks? Because like you said, when you're afraid, you're just listening and the doctor's an authority. And so helping people understand when you really start to break it out, like chemotherapy, let's just say breast cancer, because that was my area of expertise when I was practicing. It's like the benefit is like 3% to 5%. But

Freddie Kimmel (56:04.544)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Katie Deming (56:30.89)
That's the benefit of, and it doesn't improve your survival. It's just that's the improvement in recurrence, right? And then, but look at the long list of side effects. It's like you could have permanent neuropathy, cardiac toxicity, like all these things that you're like, okay, what am I buying with this 3% potential decrease in recurrence? And by the way, does that really?

change my outcome? Am I less likely to die of this or whatever with that benefit of the chemotherapy? And when you really start to look at the data around medical therapies, you realize these benefits are very, very small. And so, you know, it's one of the things of like, this is, I think, a hard conversation to have, but this is actually what I like being in this space because at least I understand the conventional literature to really help people understand what are you buying.

with this treatment, both the benefits and then also the risks. And then when we look at the alternative treatments, the amazing thing is most of these things aren't going to hurt you. So it's not going to hurt you to drink half of your body weight in ounces of water every day. It's going to make you feel better. So it's like when you start to look at these pieces, they're not dangerous. And also some of the things like we talk about IV vitamin C or like you talked about mistletoe, the downsides of these things are really...

pretty small. And so that's where I like to bring people's attention to is looking at, okay, what are the complications associated with conventional treatment and then also complimentary treatments and how do you make decisions? And I always want to say, let's do the least invasive things that are the least likely to make you sick with the most benefit. And it's all individual and really meeting people where they're at.

You brought up a good point in there about boundaries, that one of the very first things that I tell my clients is that you've gotta put up a little fence. You're like a little garden, and we've just planted some healing seeds. And when you have a new garden, you don't let people walk all over it, right? You put up a fence so that your little seeds can get the nutrients that they need and start to grow. And that means you're probably gonna have to tell certain people in your life who have strong opinions

Dr. Katie Deming (58:52.582)
I love you and this is not the time. Like right now I need all of my energy and attention going to my healing protocol and I trust my practitioners. And if that's not okay with you, I understand, but I can't then have you in this space with me. And really setting boundaries is really important because that is a form of toxicity.

Freddie Kimmel (59:06.478)
Hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (59:15.058)
Yeah. I think some of the biggest jumps forward in my whole life have been, um, removing a relationship from my life. I'm saying I just need a, I need to pause and, and always reminding people it's never, it's never done out of hate. It's never an anger. It's not personal. It's not personal. This is totally about me. It's like what I need to like breathe right now because it's a lot to carry. Um, it's so fascinating. I just want to echo the, the idea that

Dr. Katie Deming (59:31.892)
No.

Freddie Kimmel (59:45.346)
You know, we have, what are you buying with, um, conventional treatment, which it's different for, I always tell people this, every single cancer, every chemotherapy regime, it's different. They all have different odds. Some are really incredible at like the cisplatin atop a side against testicular cancer is like super high. It's like in the 90 percentile where the others, it gets you absolutely nothing. Nothing, nothing except for a very diminished quality of life.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:00:11.539)
Right.

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:15.306)
And the things we mentioned, just we said the name of mistletoe injections, high dose vitamin C. I have friends on a high dose methylene blue protocol, hyperbaric oxygen, the hyperthermia beds to raise the body's temperature and create a fever. You know, that's something I, and I've never validated this, but people have told me that President Reagan had went down to Mexico. And I think this is true. I've heard it's been validated to do hyperthermia to treat his cancer early on.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:00:23.931)
in the air.

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:45.252)
Um, yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:00:47.41)
Yeah, I don't know that. But the interesting thing about hyperthermia is actually there's data in the conventional literature because hyperthermia has been combined with radiation. And so hyperthermia is one of those things where actually there is some data in the conventional space on that. So yeah, I don't know about Ronald Reagan.

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:04.415)
Yeah, yeah the other

I'm going to fact check that for myself. I've heard the story so many times in this world of oncology. Like, oh yeah, Reagan did it. It was totally on the DL. But who knows? I think the other things are just like, if you are going to go the conventional route, there is some good data to support what can you do to neuro protect your cells in the oncology ward. And there's some good evidence around fasting.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:01:10.933)
Hahaha

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:37.326)
Cool stuff coming out around hydrogen gas. It's such a selective, powerful antioxidant. I don't know if there's anything that you're aware of that you're excited about in the field of like helping the body be more resilient. Fasting before chemo, I've heard, and then I've heard other people say no. So do you have any insight?

Dr. Katie Deming (01:01:51.21)
Yeah.

No, so fasting, yeah, so fasting can be really helpful in protecting your normal cells. Also ketogenic diet, like during radiation, can make the cells more sensitive to the radiation and protect your normal cells. So there are definitely with fasting, yeah. And I think that also, you know, recognizing the placebo effect gets kind of a, you know,

in the, it's interesting in the drug world, they kind of downplay it, but the placebo effect, we know that what you believe about the treatment matters. Right? And so this is the other pieces that when I'm working with people who are having conventional treatment is understanding that your mind is so powerful and what you believe about these treatments matters, you know, and prepping them and both on a conscious level but also on a subconscious level programming them.

to get the results that they want. And I saw this in my practice. So I would have a patient come in who, in the beginning I was doing head and neck cancer, which is horrible treatment. It's like one of the hardest treatments that we do. And I would do chemo and radiation for head and neck cancer. And it was like 90 minute consult, most of it describing the horrible side effects that were gonna happen to people. And I had this patient, she was like, yeah, Dr. Deming, I know that you see this and you've treated lots of patients and you expect me to have these side effects. But I'm telling you,

Freddie Kimmel (01:02:59.382)
Yes.

Freddie Kimmel (01:03:10.107)
Mm.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:03:19.346)
I'm not going to have those. I'm not going to have what you just described. And I was like, that's so cute. Good for you. I'm like, I hope you don't. I was like, I hope you don't. But then watching her through her treatment, she did not. So she did have the side effects, but they all came way later than I would expect and also way less. And then I would have other patients who had like.

a very early cancer that I expect them to have no side effects, like barely any side effects. And they would tell me, you know, doctor, I'm the one who always has those weird side effects. I'm the one who has that like, you know, 0.1% complication. And I was like, don't say it, don't say it. And then sure enough, they'd have the weirdest stuff happen. And I was like, they had a harder time with this like non-treatment than someone who was having this horrible treatment. And it all came down to really what they were telling themselves.

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:04.642)
Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:04:15.538)
I think, and this is one of the things is like, there's a lot of things that we can do all the things, like the, you know, the fasting or the ketogenic diet or whatever, hydrogen gas. It's like, but what is in here is the most important and what you believe about what you're doing. And this is the whole thing about fear with cancer, like just the word cancer gets people out of their mind with fear, but if we can...

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:29.614)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:04:40.074)
help them get out of fear and then use their subconscious mind, use their conscious mind and direct it where they want. I would say that's your most powerful tool.

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:49.578)
Yeah, I agree. Do you, there's a, uh, really famous financial investor, Charlie Munger. And I think his quote was, if you show me, if you show me the incentive in the market, I'll show you the result. And I always think about that in terms of our, in terms of our health. It's like in the system that we're working towards, right? We don't have a system that incentivizes, um, people to, to produce people that are well and vibrant, right? It's all based on.

I'll worry about it when the symptom or the pathology arises. And, and I think this is, I don't see that system changing. I'm an, I'm an optimist, but I just think we're just, it's such a big, vast, we're on such a big scale right now. What I do think that's possible tomorrow is like tomorrow, you can change your belief system tomorrow. You can change your behavior, what you're eating, what you're drinking, how you're sleeping, how you're talking to yourself in the mirror in the morning. And it's like.

It can happen tomorrow and it can have such a profound impact. And I just, I think that's where the real work is. Um, just to echo what you're saying, this like deep work, like what is the inner dialogue, like, what are you here to do? It's all in your court. If, if you really feel that on a cellular level.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:06:06.234)
Absolutely. Well, and I think that I'm with you in that I don't know that the system is going to create a paradigm that makes this happen, that makes people healthier and more vibrant, but that's what we get to create in our own lives. And I think that's one of the things that you're creating for your listeners is a community of finding like-minded people. We have to create our own systems of support.

to create this and it starts by recognizing that we have the power to do that. But if we look at, and I'm a product of it, it actually in some ways is kind of hard to look back and I'm like, wow, for like 20 years, I was leading cancer care for a very large health organization. And right before I had that shared death experience, I had been nominated to be the medical director for national cancer care for one of the largest health care organizations in the US. And I realized like,

I didn't know any better. And so I was just doing what I had been taught in the system. And there's a whole bunch of professionals who've just been taught and indoctrinated into this system. And I think it's like recognizing that, okay, that they're not meaning harm, but this system is designed. Like the Charlie Munger quote is like, show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome. Or I don't know exactly what that quote was, but it's like.

that system is based on an incentive of selling medications, right? And so we can't look to those systems because they are doing what they're designed to do. So what we need to do is we need to create our own communities and the less centralized, the better, frankly, you know? But finding those people that you can trust and surrounding yourself with those people and then we get to decide what we're creating. And I think that's one of the things that like being close to death has been.

Freddie Kimmel (01:07:35.576)
Yes.

Freddie Kimmel (01:07:40.395)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:07:46.719)
Yes.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:07:59.47)
so helpful for me, both with taking care of so many patients who've been close to death, but then also with my shared death experiences that we are not here to do what they're telling us to do. We're here to be our own being, have our own experience, and bring those experiences from this life back into our being. And coming back to the question that you asked, Eileen Cusick, is that...

I do believe we bring that back. I do believe that's why we're here. We're bringing things back into our collective consciousness soul. I don't know what it is exactly, but it's like we're bringing these experiences. So anyway, that's like quite an esoteric answer to your question, but I really think we're here to live our individual truth and we can't look to the powers that be to do that for us, unfortunately.

Freddie Kimmel (01:08:45.678)
Hehehehehehe

Freddie Kimmel (01:08:54.686)
No, no, I know. I know I say I've given that, I've given that, um, offering a lot on my one, my one. It's so funny. My Facebook channel, it's, is my Facebook audience is so different from my Instagram. I can be so much more liberal on my Instagram audience, but Facebook is really, it's just from a different time in my life. And I offer, as we go into this election, that life's just so short and it's, um, just be really mindful of

how you put yourself out there because it's, yeah, you, you mentioned the word collective trauma through the pandemic. And I really feel that's a reason we're seeing such a spike in so many of these chronic illnesses and chronic diseases and early stage cancers. I said this stat a couple of times that drug overdose and suicide has overtaken cancer in young people from 18 to 45 as of late. Like it's a, there is a collective trauma

I see it and at the same time, there's so many these things that I do, you know, these lists and the things and the spiritual things and how I talk to myself and my daily practice that I'm able to see it and not be wrapped up in it. I'm not free from it, but I just and you know, I can witness and learn without being reactive to it. I would love to ask you how you how do you stay?

How are you living and embodying the things you talk about your patients and clients and people on your platform with?

Dr. Katie Deming (01:10:26.31)
Yeah, so I mean, I'm living and doing all the things. So, you know, working on my own, I spent, I took over a year off specifically because I knew I needed to heal myself and get myself to a real state of wellbeing before I can share that. I really think that you can't give something to someone else unless you have it yourself.

My mentor always says, like, I can't give you 50 cents if I don't have a dollar in my pocket first. And so what I do is that my life is focused around my wellbeing and actually my business now is like totally different than the way that I practiced before, but I do, you know, all the things for my mitochondrial health. So I do superhuman protocol three times a week, which is PEMF, exercise with oxygen and red light therapy. I do sauna three times a week.

Freddie Kimmel (01:10:52.311)
Mmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:10:57.026)
Mmm.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:11:20.126)
You know, I have my water routine. I'm connecting with the water. I'm, you know, connecting with the sun, getting out in the environment and doing the, I like spent a year doing emotional processing to help myself work through all of the things that, you know, were heavy in my being. And so I really, and also very spiritual. So, you know, time and silence and connecting and recognizing that

I have, you know, part of the thing that was hard for me when I left medicine was I was like, well, why did if this is the truth, like, why did I become a doctor? Like, why didn't I just become some like alternative healer? Right. Because that's what I feel like I was like, I feel like I should have been some kind of shaman living in the jungle or something rather than like a medical doctor. But then I realized I'm like, no, no. Like you said before, everything happens for you. And it was like,

I was meant to be deep in the system. I understand the system. I understand the incentives. I understand it on all levels. And it's not a mistake that I ran end-to-end cancer care from screening, prevention, diagnosis, treatment, end-of-life survivorship, the whole spectrum. I was in every bit of it because now it makes me more effective to see, okay, what is that all about? What are the benefits? But then...

what can we bring from that, that knowing to, you know, what really creates healing. And so for me, it's embodying my truth. You know, that's my life is embodying my truth and doing all the practices because if I'm not well, I can't help anyone else get well.

Freddie Kimmel (01:13:06.09)
Yeah. Beautiful. And do you see, Katie, do you see clients on a one-on-one? Can people find you to work with you and get this download and get an intake form and get going with a direction?

Dr. Katie Deming (01:13:20.218)
Yeah. So I do one-on-one consultations. I do treatment decision consultations. So people who are, like we described before, trying to make a decision about conventional treatment, I do that. I do treatment performance. So really helping people create a holistic plan around whatever conventional treatments they're doing so they can get the best results with the fewest side effects or complications.

Freddie Kimmel (01:13:29.326)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:13:45.17)
And then I also do deep healing consultations of really looking at, okay, what are the underlying causes of why I got sick in the first place? So those are the three types of consults that I do. I also do prevention, like if someone has, they're worried about their risk, they have family history or whatever, and wanna do preventive things, I do that as well. And then I also offer a free workshop and I have one that's coming live on March 5th, which may not be in time for this podcast, but that is...

evergreen and available on my website. So if people went there, they have a free workshop where I teach kind of the framework of the way I approach healing so that they can get a taste for what it is that I'm teaching. And you can find all of that at my website, which is katiedeming.com.

Freddie Kimmel (01:14:26.382)
Beautiful.

Freddie Kimmel (01:14:30.19)
Great. We'll link that in the show notes. So if you get a magic wand and you can wipe it and you can tune everybody into the planet, into your TV, if you had a minute to talk to everybody, what would you say right now to the people of planet earth?

Dr. Katie Deming (01:14:44.106)
Well, I would say, for many people, it feels like a time that is hopeless. But I actually think there's so much opportunity. And it's like, again, crisis. So we're in crisis as a planet, if you look at it. And in every crisis, there's danger, but there's also opportunity. And I see more and more people waking up and realizing, gosh, I have more power than I thought I had.

And that's what's exciting for me. And that's actually why I love being in the cancer space is because people are broken open. But I think we are breaking open as a collective. And that's beautiful. Because when everything's going well, it's hard to make changes. But when things aren't going well and you see, gosh, this is not all it's cracked up to be, you're open and now you can see other ways of being. And I think that's beautiful. I think it's a story of hope. I think we're living in a time.

where if as a collective in humanity, if we start to see our power and start to make choices to become healthier within our beings, but then also expressing love and compassion to each other and thinking about how do we make the world better? Like that's incredible. I think there's huge opportunity right now. And that excites me.

Freddie Kimmel (01:16:08.338)
Yeah, yeah, me too. Me too, well, you've been a great, incredible guest on the Beautifully Broken podcast. I hope you'll come back. I'm sure we'll have so much to talk about. Yeah, I just applaud the work you're doing and you're exactly what the world needs, as I said before. You're somebody who has been in the system and you've had a shift in awareness and now you're sharing in a beautiful way. So I just wanna, again, applaud the work you do.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:16:36.778)
Thank you, it's my pleasure.

Freddie Kimmel (01:16:38.302)
Yeah, we'll talk again soon. Big love. Bye.

Dr. Katie Deming (01:16:41.29)
Bye.