Neurofeedback to optimize your healing process with Natalie Baker

Natalie Baker is a licensed psychotherapist and the lead NeurOptimal Neurofeedback NY trainer. Natalie has over fifteen years’ experience as a psychotherapist in New York treating clients with conditions such as PTSD, trauma, anxiety, depression, ADHD, insomnia and relationship issues. When she introduced neurofeedback into her practice four years ago, she was thrilled to discover neurofeedback sped up – sometimes effortlessly – her client’s healing process.

In this conversation, Natalie and Freddie discuss the benefits of neurofeedback, the significance of the stimulus in our environment, the power of the brain even when we sleep, the flexibility of this healing modality, and so much more. 

Episode Highlights

2:18 - What is neurofeedback?

5:37 - The connection between psychotherapy and neurofeedback

8:05 - Performing neurofeedback on yourself (and the benefits)

10:12 - Our brains are not wired to serve us

13:30 - Tapping into your body on a superhuman level

19:03 - When it's fine to not change

23:36 - Breaking down the NuerOptimal

27:08 - Is there an optimum number of sessions?

30:03 - The flexibility of this healing modality

33:47 - The power of stimulus and environment

37:51 - How to get connected to neurofeedback?

42:24 - What does it mean to be beautifully broken?

CONNECT WITH NATALIE

Check-in at Neurofeedback NY - https://neurofeedbackny.com/

Book a free 15-minute phone consultation - https://neurofeedbackny.com/contact-2/

Learn more about NeurOptimal - https://www.neurofeedbacktraining.com/

Read her blog - https://natalienbaker.wordpress.com/

UPGRADE YOUR WELLNESS

Marion Institute BioMed Course: biologicalmedicine.org
Code: beautifullybroken

Silver Biotics Wound Healing Gel: https://bit.ly/3JnxyDD
Code: BEAUTIFULLYBROKEN

LightPathLED https://lightpathled.com/?afmc=BEAUTIFULLYBROKEN
Code: beautifullybroken

STEMREGEN: https://www.stemregen.co/products/stemregen/?afmc=beautifullybroken
Code: beautifullybroken

Flowpresso 3-in-1 technology:
https://calendly.com/freddiekimmel/flowpresso-one-on-one-discovery

Medical grade Ozone Therapy: https://lddy.no/1djnh
Code: BEAUTIFULLYBROKEN

AquaCure Machine + Molecular Hydrogen
Website:https://eagle-research.com?ref=24931
Code: beautifullybroken

DIY Home Cold Plunge Conversion: [https://www.penguinchillers.com/?rstr=6757]

CONNECT WITH FREDDIE

Work with Me: https://www.beautifullybroken.world/biological-blueprint

Website and Store: (http://www.beautifullybroken.world) 

Instagram: (https://www.instagram.com/freddie.kimmel

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@beautifullybrokenworld 

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (00:00.086)
Listen for the yeah-butts. And those are going to be the things that you say to yourself all the time that put you in a state of dysregulation, back into the familiar sort of limits that we set on ourselves. So say to yourself, I am workable. And then there's going to be just a little gap. And then there's going to be the yeah-butt. And then just let that, like a cloud, just let it float by.

and then come back to the I am workable.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (00:35.023)
Welcome to the Beautifully Broken Podcast brought to you by AmpCoil. I'm your host, Freddie Kimmel, and on this show, we discuss the common thread survivors share after walking through the fire, the practitioners making a difference, and the treatment modalities that deliver healing back into the hands of the people who need it most. Witness the inspiration we gain by navigating the human experience with grace, humility, and a healthy dose of mistakes. Because part of being human is being beautifully broken.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (01:09.241)
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the beautifully broken podcast. I am here with a very special guest, a certified neurofeedback trainer and licensed psychotherapist, Natalie Baker. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Delighted to be here. Natalie, I had you on the show for multiple reasons, but one, I have a very good friend, Alex Willen, who

was exploring the world of neuro biofeedback. He's a good friend and an associate and someone who had been through some concussions. And he had mentioned neurofeedback training was something that he had started to use and had some really great success with. And he connected us and here we are. Great. So my question is, when we get into this technology, if you could explain for the audience at home,

What is neuro biofeedback? Do you want the short or long answer? Let's go with a short answer. Okay. The short answer is that it is using the electrical communication of the brain, which can get habituated to patterns that aren't appropriate for the here and now. So basically what we're doing is we're recording that information through sensors that are attached to the head.

that are fed into a computer system. And when the brain is about to go into a state change electrically, the software on the computer can identify that. And in that millisecond, it interrupts auditory, so music that you're listening to. Because as animals, we use auditory sense perception as our main way of noting change in the environment. So

in the exact millisecond that your brain is about to change states, the music you're listening to interrupts. And what that does is it signals to that automatic functioning brain, pay attention, something's changed. So just like if you're having lunch with a friend of yours, right? And you don't realize it, but you've gone off and you're lost in thought thinking about, you know, some work problem.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (03:33.007)
And then all of a sudden your friend says, Freddie, and in that moment, you become aware of two things simultaneously, that you were lost in a daydream and that in the present moment you're sitting with your friend. So you now have a choice. You can either go back into the daydream or you can actually be like, Hey, Sam, I'm so sorry. I was lost in thought. Tell me again what you were saying. I want to be here with you. So that's analogous to what we're doing for the brand.

We're giving it the opportunity to see what it's doing in the exact moment it needs to pay attention. And then it can decide based on what the current environment is, what the internal needs are. Do I want to keep doing that or do I want to make a shift and do something different? And so the brain gets that feedback thousands of times during a neurofeedback session. So it's going to shift its functioning based on that feedback.

But there's actually something more profound that's happening, which is over a series of sessions, the brain is actually learning how to perform differently, which is all the good data is in the present moment. So it starts to want to do this even when it's not hooked up to the neurofeedback machine, because the brain wants to use its energy efficiently and effectively. So when it sees, wow, if I come into the present moment and

Let's use a stress response as an example, right? So the brain is supposed to go into a stress response when there's eminent danger, something that's going to harm this body. So if the brain sees, wow, I'm sitting quietly in a room, there's no danger here, it's going to want to come out of that stress response and be in a state of regulation. So when it's learning to do this, you know, over time, that's when we, what I call calm down and cheer up.

So we're naturally rebalancing based on the brain's decision to gather information in a different way. Natalie, how did you come into this technology and when did you start to bring it into your practice? I was introduced to the concept of neurofeedback about nine years ago. I was teaching a meditation program and one of my students who was in private equity asked me if I'd heard of neurofeedback technology.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (06:00.72)
because he'd been approached to fund a peak performance brain center in Manhattan. And he wanted my advice about whether I thought this was legitimate technology. And so I was like, well, I've never heard of neurofeedback. And he gave me a brief description and I was like, wow, if there's a technology that can do half of, you know, helping, maybe I should say to sort of preface this.

In psychotherapy, a big thing that we're trying to help clients do is to be able to know when they're going to have state of dysregulation, so anxiety, depression, and be able to recognize that, come out of that state. But you know, we're talking about a part of the brain that we don't consciously control. So as psychotherapists, we have all these tools we use.

to try to help the client and help the brain get out of that maladaptive patterns. So when my meditation student said that there was a piece of technology that speaks directly to that automatic functioning brain and gives it feedback that it's doing the wrong thing in the present moment, I was pretty excited. Now, I'm not a techie, not really interested in technology, not interested in tweaking people's brains.

But you know, lot of our suffering as humans is because in part our brains are habituated to response patterns that really aren't helpful to what's happening in the present moment. And so I did some research. sent, I started doing it on myself. I sent a couple of my clients who are pretty severe, complex PTSD sufferers.

who were game to trying it out and they had really good results. So I thought, okay, I really owe it to my clients to offer this as part of their therapy. Amazing, amazing. so you've used it personally, yourself extensively. Yes, absolutely. And what were some of the benefits you personally noticed? So I didn't notice

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (08:20.434)
the effects until I was about four sessions in. And I was driving home after the session at this time I lived up in Westchester County. And I had this sense of all my sense perceptions becoming much clearer and more vivid. And I've since learned that that's called the clean windshield effect that one can experience after doing normal feedback. And then it wasn't until

I had purchased the system myself and I was training my family and myself. And I think I was probably about 10 sessions in. I, so at that time I worked in Manhattan and then I would take the commuter train back to Westchester and then I'd get in my car to drive. Thursday nights at like 10 o'clock I'd be in my car driving home. And that's when this, this voice would kick in.

I would be exhausted and be like, why do I have to work so hard? And this is, oh my goodness, poor me, da da da. So I was driving home on a Thursday night at 10 o'clock. And then I realized I wasn't doing that thing where I was like, woe is me. And so I started to generate the thoughts, you know, to see if I could kick up those feelings again.

And it was so interesting, was like stomping on a trap door. It was just not going to open. And so that was when I started to really see how when the brain's in that state of regulation, it doesn't really want to go there. And in this case, was kind of in that sort of depressive, cranky energy. It was just like, I was physically tired, but I was just like, I'm okay.

I want to go back to something that you said earlier, that the way the brain is programmed, that it doesn't necessarily serve us. And I would just, I would say also if we were to sidestep that with the world that we've designed today, the numbers of society, you know, the, the communications that we have, how many people's thoughts and ideas we touch through social media, the stimulus and response, it's so incredibly overwhelming today.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (10:42.995)
that it's like nothing that the human body was ever prepared to handle as far as with the way we're wired. So it's almost like this modern design of life is where that's where we're really dealing with the problems. Well said. Yeah. And do you think now that you've worked with the technology or maybe from some people in your practice that people are more adept to deal with some of the modern day stressors?

Absolutely. mean, you know, some of the things you've talked about in this podcast is really getting away from this linear view. there's like this one intervention, you know, that's going to sort of fix us, so to speak, and really looking at the system as a whole. And how do we create balance, even though there are so many stressors, right? Like you talked about this lifestyle that's, you know, really being bombarded all the time with input.

And what happens, my observation of people who do neurofeedback, like a series or keep going as part of their sort of wellness regime, is that the communication between what the brain, let's say the brain is asking for and our conscious awareness becomes much clearer. So then we have access

to many more tools of support. So I hear people saying things to me and it's so interesting because this is a part of the brain that we don't consciously control. So it's like just these little bubbles arise in people and they'll say things to me like, Natalie, I finally decided to go see that nutritionist or I decided, you know what, I

I'm going to go back to the gym and make that a regular part of my life. Or, you know, I was with my uncle and, I realized every time we're together, we just fight. It's like, why am I doing this? How does this benefit us? Right. So this the the lines of communication get clearer.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (13:02.744)
And so it's kind of like you think of like a snow globe, right? And it's like when you shake up a snow globe, right? And you're like trying to see what's going on in there. Very difficult. And so the neurofeedback is like helping all of those flakes settle. So then you can look more clearly and just see, oh yeah, wow, that's a really pretty building over there. I think I want to head in that direction or whatever it is that, you know, we need as a support to try to stay balanced.

Yeah, I found going down this rabbit hole of health and wellness and self optimization that it's sometimes it's just so easy to get lost and the meditation and you know, even things like yoga, nidra before I go to bed, like a body walk through, you know, taking the first 10 minutes of my morning just to sit.

in front of like a red light and just breathe for 10 minutes that I just feel stronger about my choices. And I'm less, I'm less overwhelmed. And I see this a lot in our culture. see the decision fatigue of people. Just there's just so much coming at them. I get the anxiety. I get, I get the idea of feeling incapacitated by all the choices out there because it is it's information overwhelm.

Like we're drowning in information. We're really starving for knowledge and wisdom and practice. That's just this, I see that across the board. And for me, you know, to, jump back to the neurofeedback technology, which, which you work with, I just felt this incredible. The biggest thing I noticed was after, after using it for a month was this connection to my body. And especially, and most of the audience knows this side.

done music theater for 20 years, Broadway, singing and dancing, all that stuff. I felt an incredible connection to my hands and limbs. felt like this this like perfect extension and like it was so weird. It felt like kind of like a drug trip a little bit. Not that we're to into drug use on this podcast, but I just felt this man to the way I moved through space was totally different. And that was after three sessions.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (15:22.508)
The way I moved through space, just felt this incredible connection and I'm already very, very tapped into my body, but it was like superhuman. So like a mind body synchronization. yeah. It very cool. I thought that was, that was the neatest thing. Well, that's, and you know, one of the things I love about neurofeedback is that everybody is different. And so everybody

connects and notices different things shifting when they do the training. And I never know, you know, I mean, people will come into my office and say, Natalie, I'm sick and tired of identifying as not safe in the world or that things are hopeless. Like when their stories are ready to shift, their self identity is ready to shift. I know, okay, this person is going to notice.

changes from neurofeedback really quickly because their mind isn't going to get in the way of what their brain wants to do. But besides that, I often have no idea what people are going to say when I check in with them and say, so what do you know the same? How would you that's, that's, I love that you brought that up because the technology I work with the amp coil.

PMF and frequency. It's it's everybody wants to know what will happen. Yes. How am I going to feel? I have no idea. You know, I watched I watched a guy yesterday in the gym is shockingly enough. Where was I? I was out next to Giant Stadium. So I'm out in Jersey, right? I'm at the YMCA and I watched this guy working out and he's he's pretty jack guy and he's carrying around a two liter of Coke Coca Cola. I was like, my God, I haven't seen that. so it was like 1996.

You would see people, well, they see people with soda and then see guys walking around the gym. so that so that guy, let's take him. He's in great shape. But the fuel that he's clearly putting in his body is going to have it's a big driver on his neurotransmitters in his brain, how he processes sugar. Do know, let's say he just kills that two liter of coke in the one day. The way his cells are signaling and communicating.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (17:41.275)
just from the electrical body are gonna be totally different than someone who just drinks water. Or it could be somebody who, let's take for example, know, somebody living in New York City downtown, they just flicked on 5G last Wednesday. So fifth generation internet. And for those who don't know, I'll sidebar this really quick, I promise I'll come back. But the body is an electrical body first over a chemical body. So we use electrical signaling and

Currently, the old internet that ran around New York City was, I think it was 4G, fourth generation, which is up to like six gigahertz. Fifth generation internet is 30 to 300 gigahertz. So it's an incredibly powerful wifi. that will also affect how something like neurofeedback or even psychotherapy or amp coil affects your body. Because you've got all these con...

repeating signaling things. So it really does matter the body, the environment, your history, your genetic history, it all comes into play when you consider the efficacy of any of these technologies. It's a great disclaimer to place before some of these things before you say, this is amazing. It works for everybody. It's going to be magic for you.

So my question to you would be, do you decide when it's right to bring in for someone or if you think, or is it right to bring in for everybody and you just put the disclaimer on the front end? I mean, when someone comes to me for psychotherapy or is interested in just exploring neurofeedback as a standalone thing, if they're coming for psychotherapy, I can do them both conjoin.

So can hook somebody up to the neurofeedback system and then the auditory is playing just in the room. And then we do our talk therapy. If I can get them to do the neurofeedback, absolutely. So cool. I didn't know you could combine those. Combine them because then the automatic functioning brain is getting its training and then we consciously, you know, do whatever we need to do in the talk there. So absolutely in that context, I'm like, if I can

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (20:00.698)
gently convince someone to do them at the same time, I will, because I just see the psychotherapy going so much more quickly for people when they're doing the neurofeedback at the same time. And then in terms of someone's like, interested in exploring the neurofeedback as a standalone thing, I mean, there are a couple of factors and

You know this well, working with people, having been through chronic illness yourself and working with people in this context, know, personal finances are real consideration. so, you know, one of the things I always want to talk to people about is, you know, what are their goals? What are they trying to accomplish by introducing their feedback into their regime? And, you know, what can they afford? Are they ready?

for change. And you know, in the world of psychotherapy, there is absolutely nothing wrong with not being ready for change. We sort of think of that as being a negative, but actually it's part of the process of change is that sometimes we're just kind of in a holding pattern and then something shifts.

But we in our culture kind of get this idea that we should always be shifting. But that's not reality. That's actually not how we grow and heal. That sometimes there's a period of dormancy or waiting. And so, as I said before, people's readiness to let go and

be in the world in a different way. You that's one of the things that I explore with people because this technology that I use and there's, you know, a bunch of different brands of neurofeedback, but the one that I use, which is called neurooptimal, it's the latest generation of neurofeedback and it is not designed to treat symptoms. It's designed to allow

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (22:16.222)
the central nervous system to optimize its own functioning based on real time feedback. So whatever that is for that individual's brain. And so, you know, people can use it for many different ways. They can use it specifically for symptom relief if that's what they want to do. Anxiety, depression, ADHD, concussion recovery. Or people use it because

they want to perform at their best. so, you know, mind body synchronization, golfers love neurofeedback, you know, is so such an important aspect to their performance. So going back to your question of like, who do I recommend do it? I mean, if people have the interest and and, you know, the financial means I say, you know, of course, try it because

your brain is gonna do something with that feedback. We're not sure what, because we don't know what all the influencers are, but definitely your brain's gonna try to optimize its functioning, because the software and the design of the system is really based on how the brain naturally tries to optimize its performance. Let's talk a little bit about this specific system.

The neuro optimal which I believe is a Canadian company, correct? Yes They it's it's essentially it's a it's a tablet Which has an output on it that has three wires that run to your right ear two wires that run to your Left ear and they're all connected. They're like little little silver what I want to calm little silver diodes Which you attach like a gummy to and you connect to your brain outside of your brain

And then you're going to basically hit play on this session. is it as 32 minutes, something like that. The optimal 33 minutes is the optimal. That's so funny. 33 minutes is a very standard to amp coil journeys. So we have this 33 minute session and essentially music is going to come on. As you mentioned, it's going to flow and be nice and easy. And there'll be these little skips in the music, which is kind of annoying.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (24:32.956)
And then you just try to relax through the skips or focus on the skips or don't focus on the skips. you're, you're also, there is a visual on the screen that are kind of this emerging pattern of waves and in different calming visuals, which you do or don't have to look at. Correct? Correct. Correct. And then it really, aside from that, I was under the misunderstanding that I was supposed to focus on the skips happening or not happening, but it's really about just being present in the session or falling asleep.

Because the brain is always listening. So even when you're asleep, the brain is listening for changes in your environment. And if someone is exhausted and they get hooked up to the neurofeedback machine and their brain starts registering, you know, basically being called into the present moment, right? Then it sees, wow, I'm in a safe environment. Hey, wow, I'm exhausted. That brain's going to want to go to sleep.

And so I've had people fall asleep and I have not been able to wake them up because their brain's like, I'm going into stage four, who are during the deep dive here. But you did a great, great description of the basic setup. I mean, it is a fully automated system. So all you have to do is press the start button and be able to hear the music. And those skips are when there's

about three or four of those micro interruptions back to back. You actually hear them audibly as that sort of record skipping or pause. And you do not need to pay attention. And I really encourage people to just take that time to, you know, pay attention to your breath or, you know, just look out the window. I actually, in my office in Manhattan, I don't give them the opportunity to look at the screen with pixelation.

because I feel like people are staring at screens all day long. Good idea. Good Anya. Just to pay attention to your body and to notice what's happening. That's another benefit that comes from the neurofeedback is you start to really pay attention to and have better communication in the felt experience in your body, which, you know, that's a huge source of information. And so many people are just disconnected.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (26:59.692)
from that feedback of like, whatever the sensation is, whether it's discomfort or joy. Now I've heard on some other shows, I think different technologies, but there was often referenced a number of sessions that you kind of wanted to get through that was optimal. Is that true with this technology? No. No. You know, it's so...

protocol-based neurofeedback or linear neurofeedback. They do have protocols. So if you have an anxiety, you have an anxiety disorder, they're gonna recommend you do 30 sessions and they're going to sort of nudge the central nervous system out of certain brainwave patterns and into different ones. So the neurooptimal system is really about that.

Constant feedback and the brain optimizing is functioning. Whatever is maladaptive, right? So goes into that hyper arousal too often which we call anxiety long-term or dips down into that kind of Hypo arousal freeze response, which we call depression long-term Bounce back and forth, you know, whatever the maladaptive patterns the brain is gonna recognize that they're not appropriate and it's gonna start to shift out of them

Now there's sort of two camps of people who do neurooptimal. There's the, want symptom relief camp. And then there's the, wow, I want to optimize my performance long-term camp. And some people start out in the symptom relief camp and then they switch over to the long-term optimization. But this group, the symptom relief, they tend to train anywhere between

20 and 50 sessions, let's say, if we want to kind of, for those people who want the numbers, they don't like vagueness. And then there's the long-term optimization. And for those people, know, starting out training a little more frequently at first is good because we're teaching the brain a new way of being. And so if you do it more frequently at first, right, you...

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (29:25.036)
get better at it faster. so then people see shifts faster and so they stay motivated. So once, twice a week, even three times a week at first. And then what I always tell people is, okay, now I want you to pay attention to your body and that long term really it's listening to what, what the body asks for. So I do a neurofeedback session when I have the fodder eyes.

I haven't done neurofeedback in a while. And so then I make sure in the next day or so, you know, I get a session in. So the other, the other, the follow-up question I have is, so people have this, you know, they have this tool to use at their fingertips and whether they're looking at symptom relief or long-term optimization, this is a system to bring into your home and to have, or is this something where

how would you say it's priced to work with a practitioner or to, know I did a rental, there's a rental option. How would you say, I guess it, again, it just depends on your price point and your income and access to funds. And that's part of actually what I really like about the neuro optimal system. I mean, one of the reasons I chose it is because, you know, it is about optimization of performance.

and I'm not tinkering with someone's brain. It's purely a feedback system. So that was one of the reasons. And then the other reason was because there are different price points people can engage. They can go see a practitioner in an office setting and do sessions there. They can rent a system, same technology, and train at home and families that are training. This is really great.

Or people can purchase the system and they have a different couple of different price points if people want to purchase a system to use at home but basically you can then pay anywhere from like 10 to 20 dollars a session up to like $200 a session depending on how you want to you know, what environment you want to engage in the technology and whether you want to rent or own or go in office

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (31:44.441)
And it's all the same technology. Wonderful. And what about updates in the software? And does that, does that change much for this company? They do, they do sort of little updates and synchronized with windows updates that just happen automatically when you log on to the system. And then in terms of sort of software upgrades. we went from 2.9 to 3.0.

and to go from two to three was six years in the making. Oh, wow. So it was a lot of a lot of work went into it. And, know, to Dr. Val and Sue Brown, who designed the system to their credit, you know, they are meticulous in the testing phase and they they don't send anything out until it's perfected because they don't want people to have to call tech support. And then I have to say,

It's really true. mean, the system just runs. It's really great in terms of how sophisticated this technology is. It's impressive how little tech support one needs, which I'm thankful for because I'm not. That's amazing. That's amazing. So you're working with people currently in the Manhattan area? I am, although I am in the process of

talking about shifting your nervous system. I'm actually right now sitting in Boulder, Colorado. So I have my practice in Manhattan and I have some staff there, but my family has just moved to Boulder, Colorado. And it's very interesting what you said about, you know, the difference in stimulus. So living in Manhattan versus now being in this spacious environment where

There's no noises. There's no like make big difference to being able to down regulate. was, was telling Natalie before I'll tell the audience before she came on. was thinking about canceling or moving because there's a home renovation going on next door where they're sawing through their buzz sawing through sheets of metal and wood. And there's, you know, the sirens are running outside. It's usually the case. It's usually fine, but it was extra crazy today and

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (34:08.565)
And you know, I'm working a full eight hour day and balancing. I'm listening to that noise happening. I know the interview's coming. I've got a birthday to go to afterwards. I'm thinking about the six o'clock tunnel traffic, all these things. You know, it's a lot in this area and I'm constantly aware of how unsustainable it is. And I'm actually in the process of selling my home right now in Jersey and like

Who knows where I'll land, but I'm open to something that's just a little more, even if it's a Catskills, just something that's a little more, just a stronger connection to nature, less stimulus. I think it's, you know, the more, in this world of chronic disease and illness, and the more people you talk to, when somebody's out in the woods, when they're in nature, they just do better.

They do better no matter what they're using, whether it's psychotherapy or neuro biofeedback or PEMF. They do better when they combine that with time and nature across the board. Absolutely. And you know, the, research, you know, consistently shows that I read a study a couple of weeks ago that one half hour walk in nature per week has

significant, like statistically significant impact on mental health.

one 30 minute walk per week in nature. And you know, I've thought about this a lot in terms of like, what is it about being in nature that has such a profound impact on people's mental health? And I think part of it is that they're in an environment, they're in a system that is healthy.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (36:08.359)
So then their nervous system connects with the system of this environment that's working just fine. And coming here to Colorado, know, Aspen groves, Aspen trees are actually the limbs and that an Aspen Grove is actually all one tree.

You know, that's a sort of an I think of that in terms of like being out in nature is that you're in a system where there's no mental chatter. So this is the other aspect of it is that this system does not need concepts. It doesn't need mental chatter in order for its intelligence, its basic intelligence to work. You know, we could make an argument that we're actually the same.

We do. I think we are. Yeah, we don't. I think we are. I think we are. I think we are. can see. And I there's one spot just north of San Francisco, Amir Woods in the Redwoods. I just I walk in there and I like touch these trees and it's like you just feel everything drop. It's an it's an immediate sanctuary. Nervous system goes back to a hard reset. And like you said, you're in this community. Of.

living entities, which all have a vibration, which are entangled with our vibration and we're, you know, we're pulled back. It's like the anchor. Yeah. So it's needed. Yeah. I know. I know. Onwards and upwards. Natalie, how do people, how, would people go about renting the technology or where would they, where would you tell them to go for a resource on neuro biofeedback, neuro optimal?

Well, they can certainly come to my website, neurofeedbacktraining.com. That's a resource for them. There's also the neurooptimal parent company website, which is neurooptimal.com. And there's a find a trainer button there where you can see if there's a neurooptimal practitioner, you know, close to where you live. If you want to go try a session in office.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (38:29.034)
And I would have to say whether you want to work with somebody or rent a system or buy a system, depending on your price point, the best thing about it is it's very, very, very easy to use. You don't need to be. remember the first time I looked at it, I was like, oh, there's color coded wires and it, but it really is. You connect the diodes, you push play, you sit there for 33 minutes. Like you said, you just try to be. And it's, it's very, very user friendly. Very user friendly. And if you have a partner.

you know, or a family member and you can hook each other up, it's a very nice way to connect non-verbally. And I've seen a lot of relationships shift just from family members doing the neurofeedback. They don't even have to talk about anything, but they start to communicate from that place of regulation and being resourced.

rather than being reactive. So that's the other nice thing about training at home is you can hook up family members and you can allow things to shift in a way that's very organic. Yeah, yeah, I feel that. I also, just want to, you know, to reiterate for everybody out there that these technologies and these modalities that are available to us now, it's not, it doesn't have to

You'd have to frame it as a luxury. that would be nice if I think the science and the data and what we're seeing come down the pipes as far as health conditions, autoimmunity, depression, suicide rates. You've got to look at the world that we've designed and you've got to say, OK, something is problematic here. And you've got to start to look at these things like, well, do I need the five hundred dollar lease on a car?

Or do I benchmark a used car and then say, OK, I want to start to put away however many, you know, thousand dollars a year towards some of these modalities that are they are really effective. And I think last week's episode I had on Arjuna Arda, who wrote this amazing book, Radical Brilliance. And his whole thing is like, I need radically brilliant people. I need them. The world needs them. We're essentially on the Titanic playing cards.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (40:55.487)
Some people are making love, some people are playing music and we're headed at a little bit of an iceberg. And I was like, that's brilliant. And he's like, we need people upgrading. We need you at your clearest mental state. We need to clean up the oceans from plastic. We need to fix our political atmosphere. You know, it's needed. that's my two cents. I really thank you for being on.

it's my pleasure. I enjoyed the conversation. Thank you for Yeah, yeah, I think I think we're gonna get a lot of people trying this and what the only thing I would ask is that when people if you reach out to Natalie through her website, and it'll be in the show notes, shoot me a message and let me know how a month of neurofeedback went. Right? Let me let me know message me through. Freddie said go on Instagram and say, dude, I absolutely love this. Or maybe I didn't feel anything at all. But but let me know how it how it worked out because

the more people that chime in and actually try some of these things, you know, I'll say, I've also heard from two other people that tried the system that they had, they noticed some improvement in bowel elimination. They were going to the bathroom more, which makes, obviously we get a communication with the body systems. I'm sure you've heard that before, Natalie. Yes, I have. I was not going to list that, but one at the top.

the cure to pooping more. Well, we'll leave that for another episode. Before you go, I would love to ask you a couple more questions. And the title of the podcast, the beautifully broken podcast. What does it mean to you to be beautifully broken? Giving up perfection. Beautiful. And if you could leave the audience with a question, maybe a moment to do a little self reflection.

What's one thing somebody could do tomorrow to upgrade their mental state and their clarity and move towards a state of being radically brilliant? have the mantra, I am workable. And to just practice saying that throughout the day. I am workable. And then listen for the yeah-butts. And those are going to be

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (43:19.05)
the things that you say to yourself all the time that puts you in a state of dysregulation, back into the familiar sort of limits that we set on ourselves. So say to yourself, I am workable. And then there's going to be just a little gap. And then there's going to be the yabba. Yeah, but I have this chronic health condition. And then just let that, like a cloud, just let it float by.

and then come back to the, am workable. I love that. I am workable. I'm going to start using that. And Natalie, thank you so much for being here. It's an honor to have you on the podcast. I hope we can do another one. think, I think there's so much more bandwidth to talk about neurofeedback and we didn't even touch into some of your other work that you do with your clients and we could do it again in the future if you're up for it. I would love to.

Wonderful. And we can touch base. could see how you, maybe you shift a little bit from having some time in nature and in the Colorado snow and sun and trees. Yes. I'll just come as space. Hold the space. Well, thank you so much for being here. Namaste. Namaste. Ladies and gentlemen, you made it to the end of the podcast. Now in a world where the average attention span is less than 10 seconds, we just spent almost an hour together.

And I think this is the beginning of something really beautiful. Now, one way to support the podcast is to head over to freddysetgo.com and check out my newly launched page, Freddy's Faves, where I've linked every five star product and healing modality you hear about on the show. Most offer significant discounts by clicking the link. And please know it doesn't cost you anything extra. And at the same time, they support the show through affiliation. So.

Check out Freddie's faves on freddysetgo.com. This episode of the beautifully broken podcast was brought to you by our sponsor, AmpCoil, upgrading the vibrations of hearts, minds, and bodies all over the world. Thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's show, head over to iTunes and leave a five-star review. Grabbing a download is like giving this virtual thumbs up that we're doing it right. And if you want to connect with me, shoot me a message on Instagram.

Freddie Kimmel and Natalie Baker (45:42.238)
at freddysetgo.com or at freddysetgo. That's all for today. Our closing, our closing, the world is hurting. We need you at your very best. So take the steps today to always be upgrading whatever it takes to move the needle. Remember, while life is pain, putting those fractured pieces back together is a beautiful process. I'm your host. I love you. Namaste. Have a wonderful day.