Precision Medicine & the Future of Health: Dr. Anil Bajnath on Multiomics, Epigenetics, and Longevity

WELCOME TO EPISODE 248

This is not your average health conversation. Dr. Anil Bajnath joins me to decode the exposome—the totality of your lifelong exposures—and how it’s quietly shaping your energy, mood, resilience, and even your future disease risk. We explore how deep data from multi‑omics testing can translate into practical steps for healing, from detox pathways and mitochondrial support to the balance between rigorous science and joy-driven living.

We talk through everything from electric grounding and photobiomodulation to parenting as a longevity stressor, and how the body's “biological 401(k)” can be optimized with personalized strategies. This episode bridges ancient wisdom, futuristic science, and the very human art of transformation. Tune in for a mind-expanding look at what it means to truly know your body—and how to honor it in the most intelligent way possible.

 

Episode Highlights

[00:00] - Why understanding the exposome is essential to personalized medicine
[02:13] - From microbiology to multi-omics: Dr. Bajnath's origin story
[06:52] - What is multi-omics? A breakdown of genomics, proteomics, microbiomics, and more
[09:16] - How your environment and genetics interact to create disease—or resilience
[15:53] - Why detox pathways matter more than you think
[18:32] - The paradox of biohacking: when “clean living” isn’t enough
[24:33] - The power of grounding, electric charge, and frequency on cellular health
[30:53] - A real-world case study: glyphosate exposure and recovery
[35:59] - Integrating science, intuition, and technology in modern medicine
[41:41] - Red blood cells, zeta potential, and PEMF therapy—explained
[46:12] - The top 5 omics tests to build your personal health roadmap
[52:08] - How parenting impacts longevity and what to do about it
[57:44] - Big visions: democratizing access to precision health worldwide

 

LINKS & RESOURCES

Dr. Anil Bajnath https://anilbajnath.com
The Institute for Human Optimizationhttps://ifho.org

 

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FULL EPISODE INTERVIEW

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Freddie Kimmel (00:01.644)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the beautifully broken podcast. We are joined with my good friend, Dr. B. Welcome to the show. Anil, how you doing?

Anil Bajnath, MD (00:10.438)
Yeah, good, good. Thank you for having me, Freddie. Good to see you.

Freddie Kimmel (00:14.934)
It's good to see you. I see you all over the world at all these events and you like truly are with the movers and shakers. How do you serve the world in the way of wellness? What do you do?

Anil Bajnath, MD (00:28.936)
You know, that's a loaded question because it kind of stems from my passion for the biological life sciences that started as a teenager. by training, I'm a family physician with additional integrations for functional medicine. I studied with the IFM and the A4M. I teach at George Washington University. And that kind of led me to kind of carving out my own.

narrative based on what I teach at the university, what I do here in the clinical practice, in the field of precision medicine, using multiomics in clinical practice. And I'm also really into the same technologies that you're into with all the different really fascinating gizmos and gadgets from around the world, from New Zealand to Germany and everywhere in between. There's some really interesting tech that's...

coming out that I like to leverage here in my private practice for my patients to have access so that we could explore some of these different healing modalities because I don't think you're going to heal from a pill. You know, just generally speaking, we need some different toys and technologies that actually move the energy and, you know, restore the charge and stimulate the mitochondria and mobilize the lymph and, you know, you know, get things open and circulating and the flow moving again. So

Freddie Kimmel (01:52.749)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:53.198)
I have a whole side of the practice I would call longevity gyms, is basically all those fun toys, you know.

Freddie Kimmel (02:01.314)
Yeah, they're so fun. I have, yeah, God, it'd be so easy to talk to you about all the tech that you love. Cause it just, I'm, it's, it's like a kid in a candy store for me. I just, I love it. Especially when things really, really move the needle. I just want to say how lucky Maryland is the Maryland area to have you because in different areas of the world, it can be like a desert to find access to some of these things. When people have called me on consultations and I'm like, you

Maybe you can get over this guy, really knowing you and knowing all that you offer, really is, you kind of have everything from the regenerative medicine to the multi-omic sciences to be able to do great diagnostic work. How has this evolved over time? Obviously you did not start here.

Anil Bajnath, MD (02:49.394)
Yeah, no, it's just really interesting because it's like, think as a science has evolved, you know, my undergraduate degree is in molecular microbiology and medical laboratory science. And, you know, what started off as a passion for using dark field phase contrast microscopy based on, I think, our common teacher, Dr. Thomas Rao from Switzerland and Germany and how they're using it clinically to look at undenatured peripheral blood under the microscope to get a qualitative cellular dynamic.

appreciation of what's going on in the milieu has led me down a road of, you know, looking at how we connect those molecular dots from genome to phenome. And so that background in molecular microbiology and medical laboratory science prior starting medical school and studying all the natural stuff before medical school, you know, you know, dare I say clinical homeopathy.

that actually is accredited by the AMA, right? To get those credits, you know, it's validated kind of clinical homeopathy for any of the critics out there. know, herbal medicine with ABC and Mark Blumenthal, looking at medical acupuncture at University of Miami. I've, you know, spent so much time, you know, studying these integrative modalities prior to med school. And then when you get into medical school, it's, you know, I hate to say it, but

you the information that you learn by the time you graduate, more than 50 % of it's outdated. You know, there's research out there. I think it's nature publications that demonstrated that there's a doubling of medical knowledge every 78 days, you know, and that's really hard for physicians to kind of stay abreast with all the science, research and technologies. And, you know, once you leave training, it's like up to you to stay within the appropriate networks to continue that medical education.

Freddie Kimmel (04:28.152)
Wow.

Anil Bajnath, MD (04:41.502)
to keep up with best practice within the industry. So, and if you niche down and sub specialize, whether you're a cardiologist or endocrinologist, gastroenterologist, whatever it is, it's also further complicated to kind of look at certain aspects of what's emerging in the field and the research that's constantly growing. So.

For me, the conversation has personally evolved from what I teach at the university. I essentially teach the entire American Academy for Anti-Aging Medicine Fellowship through A4M at George Washington University with classes that I teach. But there's one class that I'm very particularly excited about that I've been teaching for a few years now called INTM 6205, the Omics of Medicine.

And it's like, teach other doctors how to connect those molecular dots from genome to phenome and how to make sense of that from a translational process. And that kind of gave rise to how I practice medicine because, you know, we've all been to the functional medicine conferences and it's fantastic. It has very, you know, root cause integrated holistic approach, systemized approach to addressing somebody based on, you know, ATMs, are, you know, antecedents, triggers, and mediators.

using a timeline, using a functional medicine matrix, connecting all those interconnected values. But how do we take that a step further at refining, I would say, the molecular phenotype to that narrative and really structuring it even further with using some of the different diagnostic testing that's being endorsed by functional medicine practitioners, like microbiome analysis, environmental toxin testing?

metabolomic profiling or oat testing, advanced biomarker analysis and so forth. for me, and genomic medicine, right, and the different applications of genetics, right. So there's a difference between genetics and genomics and, you know, genetics, you know, traditionally refers to those inborn errors of metabolism, more of a classical Mendelian approach to like, you know, disease obscurities, you know, and looking at conditions like PKU and cystic fibrosis and things like that.

Anil Bajnath, MD (07:00.794)
versus genomics, looking at the totality of, you know, an individual's instruction manual, their book of life, right? That has 23 chapters, or 23 chromosomes, you know, half written by their biological mother, the other half their biological father, and using that information to kind of dive into these theoretical predispositions. You know, and I also, you know, mentioned to folks that, your DNA is not your destiny. You know, we use this as a roadmap clinically to just understand your, deck of cards you've been dealt with and where we need to pay attention to when we look under the hood.

Freddie Kimmel (07:06.86)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (07:30.398)
Whether it's through proteomic or metabolomic profiling, imaging, advanced imaging, whatever it is, it's connecting those dots into a cohesive manner to get a better appreciation of what's going on. Now, for you and I, we know that there's limitations to this kind of assessment, right? That kind of stops at a certain degree. And I think some of the things that aren't brought into a precision medicine approach, molecular...

kind of multiomic approach is the, I would say, dare I say the quantum associations, the thoughts, words, actions, behaviors, the psycho-emotional triggers, factors that influence, you know, our autonomic nervous system, our ability to, you know, let go or hold onto an emotion and that trauma and how that influences somebody's, you know, disease process. So I think that's one of the limitations to that.

Freddie Kimmel (08:06.423)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (08:28.318)
kind of profiling, but it's not to say you can't unpack it as a clinician. So yeah, it's just really interesting stuff. I have fun with all of this. I tell everybody, look, the promise of precision medicine begins with your story and everybody's story is different. Their evolution is different. There's really interesting evidence about transgenerational epigenetic programming, looking at how trauma of generations past influenced us today. Me being a

Freddie Kimmel (08:33.645)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (08:57.04)
Indian dude, you know, like, you know, we have different genetics, right? That predisposes us towards cardio metabolic issues, you know, Indians are the worst with that, unfortunately, and has to deal with, you know, our evolutionary biology and looking at, you know, times of scarcity, and famine that, you know, influenced our phenotype, you know, and predisposition towards, you know, triaging of energy. So I could go into all sorts of stuff. But yeah, that's, yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (09:23.532)
Yeah, yeah, we could. We'll probably have to do like five episodes here. Hold on one second. I gotta change one setting on my recording. Hold on, I'm gonna pause.

Anil Bajnath, MD (09:29.842)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (09:33.634)
All right, I just wanted to do a little setting on my sound optimization here, because I'm an audiophile. The scope of work you bring to the practice, again, it's just because I know you and I see you, you're always training, you're always doing continued education. we look at the field right now and we say the omics sciences, can you describe that for the lay person that's coming into your office? It's like...

How do you let me ask you this? How do you meet people when they come in off the street and they're like, here's my issue, I want to feel better. How do you bridge all your knowledge and put it into a packet where they can embrace it and understand what you're doing?

Anil Bajnath, MD (10:14.514)
Yeah, and I think it just depends on their story and their symptomatic profile and everything else, because you could even just start with their core set of symptoms or their medical health, past medical history, and where they're at at that given moment in time. But I explain to everybody, you're coming into my practice, one of the, I think, aspects about myself.

clinically is that I'm one of the few doctors that tried to really take that deep dive into the translational applications of multiomics. And to answer your question about what that means, multiomics refers to the different molecular layers and independent studies of biology. So the study of genomics is the study of your genes and your DNA, right? The study of the transcriptome looks at RNA expression and how...

certain genes are upregulated or downregulated based on various environmental signaling and inputs and so forth on gene expression. I look at the epigenome in the context of aging and cancer, right? And that has another environmental gene interface factor here. And looking at methylation and deacetylation and these different signatures that could be associated with pathology.

I look at proteomics, which are the study of proteins, right? And proteins are essentially advanced biomarker analysis. And we can identify molecular signatures of, you know, I would say, you know, some core perturbations in the system or shifts in the system associated with inflammation, oxidation, ischemia, and immune dysregulation are some of the core things that we see here, right? So.

Freddie Kimmel (11:29.154)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (11:51.678)
You know identifying those signatures on a proteomic level and metabolomic level and metabolomics refers to looking at How proteins give rise to enzymes enzymes give rise to metabolism and that metabolism is function Sometimes things don't function right, you know, whether it's a mitochondria the you know Golgi apparatus or ribosomes or whatever it is and we have the ability to identify certain signatures associated with Disturbances on a metabolomic level, right? I like the microbiome which is the amount of

Freddie Kimmel (12:05.42)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (12:19.212)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (12:21.982)
You know the it refers to the amount of microbes that we have, you know on our skin in our mouth in our stool Right. I think before we started recording we were going over looking at an oral microbiome analysis is it's very interesting There's companies like oral DNA out or you could just take a swab and look at it on a microscope and identify these different pathogenic microorganisms like trypidemia denticola, which is associated with like Alzheimer's. It's very interesting, you know, so

Freddie Kimmel (12:48.642)
Mm-hmm

Anil Bajnath, MD (12:49.646)
microbiome also plays a very important role in understanding that we're outnumbered by order of magnitude in bacteria, then we have actually eukaryotic self cells is fascinating. And then I like to look at the exposome. The exposome is very interesting. I'm actually a part of the Human Exposome Project, which is a new initiative that was launched a few weeks ago here in DC on behalf of the NIH and John Hopkins and

multiple different stakeholders across the world. And it's kind of piggybacking off of where the human genome project left off nearly 25 years ago, looking at how the environment influences our gene expression influences how, you know, that predisposes us towards different diseases and conditions. So, you know, when, you really look at that, like that bioaccumulated toxic load on our system can be coming from all sorts of stuff, man, you know, I'm sure you can.

Freddie Kimmel (13:36.95)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (13:47.964)
Yeah, we live in a toxic world, right? From the air, water, food, all that stuff that we come into contact with, to our bubble, so to speak. Some people, unfortunately, are genetically predisposed towards impaired cytochrome P450 detoxification pathways. They might have also impaired glutathione recycling. They might have impaired other signaling pathways that leads to this bioaccumulation, not just genetically, but let's say, you're

sitting down all day, you know, you're not moving, you're not moving your lymph, you're not sweating, you're not exercising. That plays a role. You're not eating good food and fruits and vegetables to, you know, boost Nrf2 signaling. That plays a role. All those different confounding variables influences how your body is going to respond to the world around it. And, you know, they say your DNA is marked by, you know, experience and, you know, we carry with us a memory of all these different historical exposures potentially.

And as we bioaccumulate that stuff, that toxic load, so to speak, that actually has the ability to lead to DNA damage, right? And some people have TP53, P53, polymorphisms that influence their kind of base repair mechanisms and DNA repair. It might influence their ability to...

Freddie Kimmel (14:52.162)
Hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (14:55.757)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (15:13.232)
accumulate what's called DNA adducts and DNA damage, right, within the system. We measure that stuff, right? And we look at, you know, all of that put together is honestly, I think should be, needs to be what every doctor does. Going to your doctor and doing a 15 minute visit once a year is bullshit, right? We need to go in there and like take a deeper dive to, you know, I call deep molecular phenotyping.

Freddie Kimmel (15:20.066)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (15:38.704)
of the individual to get a better understanding of what the hell's going on, right? Once we know, we're like, all right, this is your baseline, right? This is where we're at right now. And you have the ability to make conscious decisions about diet, exercise, lifestyle, nutrition, sleep, and relationships and all that stuff to basically make meaningful deposits into what we call your biological 401k. I think you're good friends with my good friend, a doctor, Jeff Drobot in Arizona with the Biomed Center.

Loved robot known for almost 20 years now, you know, and we both have a similar analogy that we have, you know, he calls it, what is it? Age, age accounting. I call it biological 401k, but it's the same concept that, you know, we have this internal biological health savings account for which we're making daily deposits of what draws from, right? And different forms of epigenetic and currency, right? And you know,

Freddie Kimmel (16:11.501)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (16:32.46)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (16:33.294)
And we have the ability to make meaningful deposits into our health so that we could save for retirement and have the ROI, which is going to be health span over a lifespan. You know, and once we have, know, that kind of, you know, accumulated kind of resilience, that's just going to help with the, you know, graceful aging process. You know, I'm not going to call it anti-aging, you know, longevity, even though, you know, Drobot wrote the four to my book and my book's coming out, The Longevity Equation. I chose this title before longevity became what it is today. I think a huge fad.

and but that's a whole other conversation.

Freddie Kimmel (17:05.822)
I like it. I think you can reclaim a word and it's really, you know, again, the title of the name, whether it's biohacking or longevity or health optimization. I equally, I get, I get burned out from the word. was like, I don't, want a different word than that. But the reality is it's like, what's inside that book and all the things that you're talking about that you're bringing to the table in practice. It's, it's not just the title of a book. I'm, I really liked that. I also would say that I want to ask you when.

When we're talking about all these different ways to look at a person and do a diagnostic deep dive, what percentage do you think the lifestyle factor plays into outcome in somebody who walks into your clinic? it the movement, lifting weights, sleep hygiene, dedicated to clean eating, some type of a mental flossing or mental health practice, time and meditation.

Anil Bajnath, MD (17:57.79)
You know, it's interesting. I, I think that has a tremendous impact on your biological expression or health and resiliency. But I've also had patients that have done that and they eat super clean. They, you know, filter their water, RO trace minerals added. Everything's organic. Their sleep is dialed in their HRV, their meditation, their exercise, and they still have issues. Right. And.

So it's really hard to pinpoint and say, you know, in a generalized population-based kind of application, you know, who, what, and how, because I think everything boils down to N of one. So everybody is at the core of their own biological study, you know, and their blueprint is completely different than mine or someone else's. And despite, you know,

good actions, behaviors, and everything else being dialed in. I've seen some very unfortunate stories, you know, and it's it's, tough to see, but then you see, got, you know, somebody that's like, Hey man, I've been smoking and drinking aggressively for a while. I, you know, do some questionable things and their resiliency is out of this world. And I'm just like, is it a mindset issue? You know, where, you know, I've met all these like super anal retentive biohackers that need to do all sorts of weird shit.

Freddie Kimmel (19:16.866)
Hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (19:23.268)
in order to get into their whatever flow state, whatever that is to them. And it's just like, all right, the second something doesn't go their way, they crash and burn. So is that really resilient? Because, know, whatever, if I, you know, like even like these, I have these glasses on right now, just because I'm in front of the computer screen all frigging day, you know, so trying to, you know, mute some of those, you know, those stressors on my, cones and rods is the goal of trying to mitigating those stresses and being cognizant of the different

Freddie Kimmel (19:40.856)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (19:53.31)
biological exposures to the environmental factors leading to that allostatic load or stress burden on the system. So, you know, it's weird, you know, I don't think I answered your question, but I think everything you mentioned is like super hypercritical in everybody's state. But at the same time, you know, when it becomes like all consuming and if you want to go out with your friends and have a beer one night at a concert, you know, but you're afraid it's going to, you know,

Freddie Kimmel (20:20.877)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (20:21.326)
F up your routine. Like that's not life, dude. You know, and when you see, I'm not going to name anybody specifically, but I think, you know, you know, the type of person we're speaking about that's so hyper critical on their, their, whatever it is that is, you know, to me, you know, I think health is not necessarily the absence of disease, but the body's ability to adapt to a stressful situation.

Freddie Kimmel (20:25.495)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (20:47.742)
right, and be able to withstand, you know, different stressors and still be able to perform and have some sort of biological reserve and resiliency. Right. So, you know, for me, like, so yeah, I've worked the night shift multiple times. It sucked. I hated it. Really F me up, you know, but you're still have to make rounds, you know, at 7 a.m. and be prepared to, you know, pull up, you know, all nighter and you're up for 36, 40 hours.

Freddie Kimmel (20:48.024)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (20:58.486)
Yeah, amen.

Anil Bajnath, MD (21:16.432)
at a time and still have to perform cognitively for your patients, right? it's just, know, food. Sometimes you don't get to eat when you're, you know, in certain clinical settings and that sucks and you gotta push through somehow. there's, you know, I don't know, man. It just, I think it's sometimes a mindset and whatnot. And I think at the end of the day,

Freddie Kimmel (21:27.778)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (21:41.488)
It's all about balance, right? Maybe as generic as that sounds, you know, being able to make those meaningful deposits with diet, exercise, sleep, nutrition, mindfulness, relationships, and so forth. When it's when you have the ability to kind of recharge your battery and unplug from all the stresses. And then, you know, I say, you know, play hard to go out and have fun. Right. Because we go to the conferences and you see some of these folks are like, I'm going to be in bed by eight. It's like, why not? Let's go have fun. Let's go. Like, you know, some of the best meaningful conversations comes out around

Freddie Kimmel (22:00.675)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (22:07.98)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (22:11.548)
you know, midnight to a.m. at these conferences with our friends and colleagues in the space and a lot of meaningful things happen. Not saying do that every night, but, you know, I don't know, just a thought.

Freddie Kimmel (22:18.55)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (22:23.03)
No, it's a great, it's a great thought. It's great reminder. I also wonder because you're who you are and because you have the skillset that you do that the outliers who are needing high level expertise, insight, and they need to break apart those multi-omic sciences and they need the high level diagnostics that they're coming to you because you can do that for them. Do you know what I mean? I, I, I

Anil Bajnath, MD (22:46.462)
yeah. Sure.

Freddie Kimmel (22:49.774)
I always, I always want the same thing. It's like my inbox is filled mostly when people reach out, they're like, Hey, I've got MS, I've got lesions on my brain. I've got stage four cancer I've got because of what I went through. That's, that's what's magnetized to me. So I'm, I'm, facilitating that person onto a qualified practitioner clinic. And that's just, you know, so I, I realized that that's not everybody. So I can easily establish this bias. I'd be like, Oh my God, it's so hard to get better. Well,

Not for everybody. Some people, it's like, you know, they, they, they cut out gluten and they like slap on some blue blockers and they're like, my God, I dropped 25 pounds and I feel amazing. And I'm like, you know, you should see, yeah. And I'm like, my God, if you saw my, sleep hygiene protocol, it'd be for most people, it'd be ridiculous, but

Anil Bajnath, MD (23:29.79)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (23:41.61)
Even if I don't sleep, I wake up, if I don't sleep amazing or the score isn't amazing, I still feel pretty great. You know, I've got my little peptide stack. I did a little biofeedback before we got on the interview this morning. You know, I got my caffeine free cop, my paroxanthine coffee. So I didn't do a lot, but I got a couple things. I also stepped outside and took my outdoor shower in the morning light, you know, just to ground and like be outside and get some fresh air.

I'm hugged on my puppy a little bit. There's things, but I'm very joyful in the morning. Like I have a routine that works for me. You know, some things are very biohacky. Some things are just super, you know, get outside and, and, be naked in my backyard.

Anil Bajnath, MD (24:19.762)
Yeah, yeah, no, and I think there's something to be said about that connection to earth and the grounding element to all of this. One of my patients, he's actually one of the guys that was really involved with NIH studies around grounding and has multiple publications associated with it. And yeah, so we've had very extensive conversations around how that influences the body's charge and frequency.

So, you know, and I think, you know, the term biohacking is very well intentioned in regards to how we can kind of help augment and shape the biology within, you know, by meaningful, you know, kind of intentional habits and routines. And it's very interesting, you know, for me, like, the biggest thing is it's like, how do you not create fear, you know, and provoke anxiety in folks when we have this level of data, you know, regarding whatever it may be?

And you know, how do you I mean, even full body MRIs, you know, full body MRIs comes with it a huge, you know, kind of argued risk, you know, so most conventional MDs will say, you know, that's unnecessary, it's going to lead to unnecessary kind of priming and provocation and health anxiety and so forth. But it could also save a life, you know, so it depends on who the person is, right? You know, somebody comes in and they're super anxious to begin with.

You it's, you gotta be careful, you know, offering some of these certain things, even genetic testing, you know, when you got a polygenic risk score associated with increased risk of colon cancer and there's a family history of colon cancer, you know, how do we, how do we work on shifting that ecosystem of the gut, you know, preventatively, functionally to, to mitigate any potential, you know, damage accumulation? How do you monitor beyond a colonoscopy, you know, to get a better surveillance and kind of longitudinal

Freddie Kimmel (26:02.926)
Mmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (26:15.378)
dare I say health optimization of the terrain of the gut, right? That's a whole nother conversation and deep dive in regards to microbiome shift and looking at the gut physiology and rolling out any micronutrient deficiencies, short chain fatty acids within the colonocytes needed for healthy terrain of the digestive system. So with all that being said, and I can tell you stories all day long, I had a patient who had a history of pancreatic cancer and

Freddie Kimmel (26:18.306)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (26:45.254)
is some other, a couple of other cancers. just want to be mindful of their story. 66 years old and comes back and they have polygenic risk scores associated with all sorts of bad things. had, they came back in with metabolomic profiles associated with increased DNA damage with 80HDG. They had lipid peroxidation also microscopically, the cells were demonstrating.

signs of lipoperoxidation or poiculocytes, spiky red blood cells microscopically, which is a sign of oxidative stress. So there was genotoxicity and cytotoxicity that were identified. There was malabsorption patterns or all those things metabolomically, proteomically, inflammatory markers through the roof. Microbiomically, multi-drug, multiple drug resistant dysbiotic organisms with

Freddie Kimmel (27:16.204)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (27:36.572)
you know, signs of EPI, extracurrent pancreatic insufficiency, short chain fatty acid deficiency, all sorts of stuff, you know, because of, you know, what he's been through, you know, to save his life and get him acutely medically stabilized. And then you run the exposomes test. I do this all the time. And it's like, my goodness, like the amount of glyphosate in the system, you know, the organophosphates are bioaccumulating and it's just like, they're like, we eat organic. Yeah. But you golf.

And that golfing, it's aerosolized and you're huffing that down and look at how high it is in the system. And I'm sure you saw that study that came out about living within a certain mile radius, 1.5 to three miles of golf course and the increased risk for Parkinsonism, right?

Freddie Kimmel (28:10.616)
Mm.

Freddie Kimmel (28:22.382)
I have a very close family member. were talking about this. They, they went, they moved down to Florida, you know, to retire and they got a spot on a golf course. And, you know, that was that, that study was probably started making the rounds on, the social media platforms three weeks ago. And she was, you know, blah, blah, blah. was having these memory issues and he golfs every day. And do you think there's any possibility? I was like, well, you do live on the course, you know, it's so it's something to definitely consider.

Anil Bajnath, MD (28:29.918)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (28:50.508)
Now, what do you do with that information? think we're, what do you do with that information? And it wouldn't honestly, it's like, okay, well, if you're going to live there, then I want to like support the liver. want you to be sweating. I want you to really focus on hydration. I'd love though, at least the groundwater that you got, hopefully not from the tap in Florida. You know, maybe we can upgrade that. You know, there's things that I think where you're at in life, also your income, what you're willing to do, what you're willing to commit to every day, but

Yeah, they wouldn't, they wouldn't change massively unless I'm going to put them on a plane and fly them up to you. Cause there's also, I will say this with a lot of these tests that are coming out right now. And you can have like, again, the big influencer podcasts were like, look at what we found in this person's tissue. then directly after that is the sentence in which they're shilling. They're like, you know, four drops of a supplement that will completely detoxify you, which you and I both know is not valid. It's not.

Anil Bajnath, MD (29:24.082)
Yeah, well.

Freddie Kimmel (29:47.746)
going to be from four drops of one bottle. is a systemic thing. It's a lifestyle thing. There's a lot involved. But what do you do with that data?

Anil Bajnath, MD (29:56.018)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's the thing, everybody's data is different, right? You know, there's different stress points, you know, within the system that we need to kind of prioritize and pay attention to, you know, and again, starting off with connecting those molecular dots and seeing where, you know, the greatest threats to your longevity are based on, you know, those profiles. And it ultimately, especially like, you know, in a scenario like that, where malabsorption is playing a very important role and there's digestive issues due to that pancreatic, you know, issue that person had.

and other cancer that he had, know, status post, you know, chemo therapy and everything else. It's like we got to be gentle, right? You don't want to go in there and stir the pot too much, but we definitely have to number one, mitigate exposure, right? And then we have whole and this this person's very affluent. have access to, you know, saunas, hyperbarics in their home and everything else. And, you know, it's it's you kind of have to start repleting, I think some of the micronutrient deficiencies that are there.

Freddie Kimmel (30:35.982)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (30:54.258)
You got to start removing those obstacles secure and making sure that you're mitigating ongoing exposure to the things that are accumulated in system. Mercury is there, you know, so I'm trying to get them plugged into our friend Gene here at the Julian Center in Columbia, Maryland for biological dentistry, because there's several silver fillings, you know, and our training that you and I have gone through with the Paracelsus Clinic and based out of Switzerland, you know, they basically or what Dr. Thomas Rowan network.

Freddie Kimmel (31:07.809)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (31:24.35)
they recommend starting in the mouth. So, you we got to start in the mouth, we got to address any root canals and, you know, kind of amalgam fillings that could be leading to a distorted foci or focal area biological interference. And then start peeling back the layers with, you know, if you're malabsorption, giving somebody a bunch of oral supplements is probably not going to work as well as, you know, acutely teeing up very targeted micronutrients in an intravenous delivery system.

And then, you know, working on like the dysbiosis for the supplementation makes more sense, right, to start the gut healing process. And then, you know, like how do you start, you know, infusing, you know, gentle, daily detox things, you know, like exercise, run, box, jump rope, rebound, trampoline, flowpresso, right, sauna.

right into a routine. it's not too stimulating hyper stimulating for somebody to have a huge, you know, dump and mobilization of biotoxin from the system, but enough to start begin the, you know, detoxification process, ebu, ozone, therapeutic plasma, for recess, right, or an exchange TPE, you know, and in use recess, which is about to come over to the US from Germany, those types of modalities to go in there and pull out all the stuff.

Freddie Kimmel (32:21.358)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (32:48.86)
Right? And then how do you unlock the regenerative potential? You know, in our office, we're using a few different regenerative modalities, including autologous stem cell therapy, right? V cell therapy. We're using some photobiomodulated plasma therapies as well, you know, to kind of stimulate the body's internal healing response. And the best thing is it's self-tissue, you know? So if there's any, you know,

questions about donor tissue, we don't have to do donor tissue. We don't have to do donor stem cells. We don't have to do that. So we could use good peptides and these photobiomodulated plasma therapies to go in there and help that regenerative capacity. So again, I think there's a therapeutic order. And again, it's just my opinion and thought process after studying this field since I was a teenager.

Freddie Kimmel (33:39.66)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (33:43.778)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (33:44.958)
started off working with supplements when I was 16 years old at Whole Foods, know, back when, you know, all the large supplement folks would come to the store, you know, Michael Murray, who wrote the freaking encyclopedia of natural medicine, you know, came and met him a bunch of times and, you know, heard him speak and, you know, so I was influenced by some very interesting folks at a young age. So it's the art of medicine, you know, it's the art of medicine with it.

Freddie Kimmel (34:06.286)
so cool. Yeah, it's so cool.

Freddie Kimmel (34:12.842)
Yeah. Yeah. Walk us back to we right at the beginning of the interview, we kind of touched on a dark field microscopy, which I know tell me where that sits as far as a regulatory boat in the U S is that where, know, because I, hear, know, if you, if you look up and now I've done this with practitioners, it's been really amazing. And it was in the midst of, in the midst of a horrible mold exposure.

We could actually go in and he could, showed me somebody else's blood. goes, now let's look at yours. Like, look at some of the lipid layers of the cells and they were all kind of bumpy and crunchy and dried out. He's like, these are, this is damp. This is from the mold. You know, here's what good blood looks like. And then the other thing they were able to show me is he's like, you know, he, he could show me spiral bacteria floating around in the blood. Cause I had an active, Lyme infection, you know, now what we do again, what we do with that information, I was symptomatic, you know, I

It was a really interesting way to look at the body, but I know some people reject that as a science online or a viable diagnostic tool. Where does that sit in the regulatory space?

Anil Bajnath, MD (35:21.086)
Well, and I agree that it should be rejected, because there are a lot of people out there making bullshit claims, right? I can tell you now, I started this, I've been doing this for almost 22 years, and that influenced my degrees in molecular microbiology and medical laboratory science. So not only did I get the training on the holistic side, I got the MD Anderson Cancer Center,

Freddie Kimmel (35:33.774)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (35:48.638)
very conventional hematopathology training as well. You know, so I saw it from both angles. And, you know, I even sought, you know, to study with Robert Bradford before he died with American Biologics back in the day. And he was the one that put out in the Townsend letter back in, I don't know, early 2000s, you know, that he was observing parasitized leukocytes, but he believed with was Borrelia budorferi.

Right. I bring into my PhD level microbiologist at the university and they're like, no, you can't see, you can't see really in the blood like that. Um, you know, you could probably see some biofilm and, um, L-forbes in the blood, you know, um, you're lucky to really see Babesia in the blood, you know, so all those tick-borne issues. Um, but the issue is you got somebody that went through a weekend course training in this technique.

Freddie Kimmel (36:32.152)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (36:40.226)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (36:48.572)
and they're running around making all sorts of erroneous claims. And I see it all the time. And that's why there's no validation to this technique, right? I personally, you know, I don't announce it. I, you know, I don't, I, I, I've been doing it for 22 years. I don't charge for it. I don't, I don't document on it. This is strictly research use only and education for me in my microscope, right? I just, you know, if you want it.

Freddie Kimmel (36:56.558)
Hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (37:18.502)
We do it. It allows me to take a deeper dive into things. but in regards to the regulatory landscape, you know, if you're if you're going to use it as a diagnostic tool, it needs to be performed in a high complexity lab. Right. And what you're able to kind of profess from it is like, yeah, you can see mycoplasma. You will definitely see mycoplasma and so all deficient forms. Right. And there's really good research from Lita Matman from Yale University, who wrote a book.

called, what is it, cell wall deficient stealth pathogens, right? Very interesting. It ties into the whole Lyme world and everything else. And she passed away a couple of years back and also studied with Majid Ali, who's a Columbia trained pathologist. he has some very interesting theories about some of the observations. He actually did the immunohistochemical staining.

Freddie Kimmel (37:56.28)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (38:13.32)
to look at different forms of fungus in the blood, the fungus among us. So it's interesting because then you go to like a infectious disease expert and they're gonna be like, yo, if you got fungemia, you're about to die. You're like, that's it. But the reality is I believe this is seeding from the gut. So as there's such dysbiosis that's overgrowing in the intestines, you will see.

Freddie Kimmel (38:18.839)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (38:29.496)
That's right.

Anil Bajnath, MD (38:41.234)
what's called endotoxemia and shedding in the blood with these microbes in the blood, right? And those microbes actually go and they bind to like receptors two and four and a few others and they actually program the NLRP3 inflammasome and lead to this low-grade smoldering inflammatory process, right? So inflammation, oxidation, ischemia and immune dysregulation. Remember those proteomic signatures are very common to see microscopically. So, you know, there's no denying we could observe four, you know, three,

Freddie Kimmel (39:05.772)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (39:10.812)
well-identifiable elements in the blood, red cells, white cells, and platelets. We could identify red blood cell size, shape, distribution, morphology, right? We're able to identify if there's levels of micronutrient imbalances with the nesocytosis. You know, this is conventional hematology. you're at a, blood cells too big, folic acid B12. Blood cell too small, iron, right? Hypersegmented neutrophils, B12, right? Sluggish white blood cells, taurine.

These are well established in the literature. And you see it, it's super cool. So in regards to those observations, they're definitely observations. I think some people take a little bit too much liberty at making clinical associations to those morphologies in the blood. I never do, or I do in my mind, I just don't say it out loud because whatever, but the reality is, and then you can make

Freddie Kimmel (39:47.35)
So fun.

Freddie Kimmel (40:00.899)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (40:07.974)
all sorts of genetic associations there too in regards to, you know, like what's your redox looking like, you know, what's again, this is just terrain. So I use it as a qualitative cellular dynamic visualization used for research and education. It's non-diagnostic. It's not anything and it just, we just have a conversation around it. So that's how I use it, right? And I'm not trying to overstep over states, whatever, when it comes down to it.

Freddie Kimmel (40:29.09)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (40:37.644)
Yeah. I mean, I think it's great. It's very much in alignment with what Dr. Tom would say. He's like, look, if you're looking around a room and you have a flashlight for your keys, you know, we just, we expand the visual field. We're like, I'm to get a picture over here. And that's some information. I'm going to get a picture over here. And that's some more information. And we get a bigger picture of the room, not necessarily brings us to a conclusion with a bow tied up on it. I think it's fascinating. Can I ask you, only because you work with technology,

Is it valid to see something as an effect like the rouleau effect where we have a clumping of red blood cells and then put somebody on a pulsed electromagnetic field system and then see the voltage change in the body? Is that something you've experienced?

Anil Bajnath, MD (41:21.662)
I've done that experiment before and after. I have a pulse PEMF bed in my office. I don't have the Beamer. I don't have the QRS. I want a QRS. So I think that's the next one I'm getting to buy. But you will see a bit of a shift, right? But the thing is, I'm not trying to market it or publish that, but there are tremendous shifts in the blood that take place with simple interventions. And so with the Rouleau stacking, that goes back down to simple

kind of a redox chemistry when dealing with something called zeta potential. Are you familiar with zeta potential? So zeta, yeah, zeta potential refers to the electrostatic negative charge that is basically carried around every single red blood cell, right? And that zeta potential is actually lost with increasing cationic burden or positively charged particles, right? So that negative charge that helps the repelling force is gone and diminish with too much protein.

Freddie Kimmel (41:58.006)
No, no, educate me.

Freddie Kimmel (42:19.032)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (42:21.63)
too much salt, too much sugar, dehydration, so on and so forth. And that's where I think this technique loses some of the credibility because they're like, again, from a conventional hematology perspective, right? When you go and you do a peripheral blood smear in a hematology lab, you look at what's called the feathered edge, right? So leading up to the feather edge and how you prepare that slide, you need to look at the capillary distribution of the actual cover slip to the microscope slide. And some people...

Freddie Kimmel (42:24.067)
Hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (42:50.254)
are very selective with where they look at under the slide and it's very manipulative and unethical and misguided. You need to look at the feathered edge of the slide and zones that aren't specifically distorted based on the fixation of the slide because this is a non-stained, undenatured peripheral blood smear. So you're not doing

the traditional technique microscopically where they, know, I wish I could just show it to you where you take the slide, you hold it like this and then you pull it across and then you lay it down and then you stain it and you know, all that stuff. We're not doing that. You're taking a cover slip to the finger, putting it on the slide, looking at the capillary distribution, right? And then you're going to the feathered edge, right? Where it's less agglutinated, less Ruloic.

in nature. But that's one of the manipulating techniques that some of these folks with the microscope do. They're like, look at this shit. You know, it's all bad. You need this. You need that. Here, buy this, buy that. Right? And that's where this technique, it's lost its credibility. So, you know, again, for me, not trying to sell you anything. I'm not trying to whatever. I want to get the real clean picture of what's going on.

Freddie Kimmel (43:58.274)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (44:13.636)
Is there real RULO there? Because again, keep in mind, you know, that could be associated with M-spike proteins, not COVID, right? But, you know, like multiple myeloma is a hallmark for that kind of protein bump, right? And, you know, the calcium in the system due to osteolytic lesions, mobilizing that. And again, what did I say about zeta potential loss due to cationic charge? Calcium is, you know, cationic, you know?

Freddie Kimmel (44:42.444)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (44:43.39)
And that could cause too much calcium, cause that agglutination. you know, it's looking at the redox chemistry, right, is very important in this entire equation with correlating some of the steps that you see qualitatively microscopically to the actual chemistry and physiology. I hope that any of that made sense. Did any of that make sense? All right, cool. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (45:03.566)
It did. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, very helpful. Well, it's, it's just, again, you you, you, you spend so much time in the space. Sometimes you hear just things regurgitate and you're like, well, is that really true? Because I've held that belief for like 10 years. Is that a valid experience I had with this practitioner and that practitioner? And it's just, I think it's, it's always good to like, try to like wipe your bias away, which I'm always attempting to do on this podcast and more than anything, you know, try to remove some of the marketing for people.

Anil Bajnath, MD (45:32.413)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (45:32.898)
You know, and that's why I have to, that's why I have to have conversations with people in clinical practice, people seeing outliers, people seeing the difficult, challenging cases. I would love to ask you, what are like three of the top diagnostic tests you love to have from people? And if you, if you're open.

Anil Bajnath, MD (45:52.542)
if you're open.

Freddie Kimmel (45:54.094)
Even like some of the some of like the company like this is the genetics test I like or this is the stool Diagnostic that I really love this is the micronutrient panel that I'm really a fan of for whatever reason

Anil Bajnath, MD (46:05.948)
Yeah, you know, that's a great, great question because, you know, limiting it down to three, I got to say five, right? Because I've done iterations of this and my core five that are going to be non-negotiable coming to see me is going to be the core five for my multiomics, genomics, proteomics, metabolomics, exposomics and microbiomics, right?

Freddie Kimmel (46:16.672)
You can do five.

Anil Bajnath, MD (46:33.884)
because those provide me a window of understanding and connecting of dots that I just need. And it also depends on what the symptomatic presentation is, right? So like for some people, might not need a microbiome profile, but you'll be surprised, know, despite no symptomatic deviation from norm and baseline completely, you know, in my questionnaire, normal digestive function, right? You probe a little bit deeper, there's still some issues, you know, that...

You you want to rectify whether it's EPX protein associated with histamine intolerance based on some of the foods you're eating. You know, it might not be manifesting directly in something observable, but below the scenes, there's a low-grade smoldering inflammatory process taking place digestively, right? Based on some of the histamine-loaded foods or low secretory IgA in the gut, which could be associated with immunological compromise, you know, and how do we bolster that, you know, and looking at other things, maybe low-grade, you know.

Freddie Kimmel (47:27.278)
Hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (47:30.398)
leaky gut, you know, you know how many times I've picked up leaky gut, both microscopically and you know, and through a microbiome test, right? So it's those little things that, you know, very interesting. in regards to the different companies that I'd like and would endorse, there's always cost associations with it, right? And the actual utility and benefits of the patient.

And there's a handful of genomic testing companies. don't want to be with my position with the Board of Precision Medicine. I want to make maintaining a non-biased kind of representation. But I could say, hey, clinically, the companies that I like and I've used, I really like Self2Code. Believe it or not, I think their platform is fantastic. I think Joe is an interesting dude. But in the platform he's put together,

Freddie Kimmel (48:05.165)
Yeah, yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (48:23.538)
you know, with the CMO, Pooja Yazdi, fantastic guys, really knowledgeable for the pursuit of self-actualization and understanding. I really like New Amsterdam Genomics in regard to whole, I'm sorry, complete axonal sequencing, right? I really like Myome, right, for their polygenic risk scores as well. I like Intellect's DNA as well, Sharon Cohen's company. I like

Freddie Kimmel (48:32.654)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (48:53.5)
I really like Bob Miller. think he's fantastic, you know, with the methyl genetic nutrition. You know, I have respect for, you know, three by four, you know, as a diagnostic company as well. And it's like, look, you know, some patients come to me with some of these profiles. Some are more limited than others in the ability to kind of extrapolate kind of key bioregulatory pathways or whatever it is for me. And I, my default is, you know, right now, Promix Edge, which is self-decode, you know, I think.

Freddie Kimmel (49:22.51)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (49:23.516)
For me, I've gone through so many and I like that one the most.

Freddie Kimmel (49:28.558)
Most most practice I ask a lot of practitioners us most people with biological medicine slant pick self-decode That's that's been the main I've asked three people in a row

Anil Bajnath, MD (49:36.7)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (49:41.212)
Yeah, yeah, and I'm very, look, I like those guys, know, I'm very close. Pouya is part of, you know, my CTO for the American Board of Precision Medicine. So, you know, I think he has, you know, profound fund of knowledge that, you know, is very important in this field because when you speak to mainstream conventional geneticists, I think it's, you know, I don't think it translates. I think sometimes, you know, they're just so hyper focused on like these

Mendelian Punnett squares that it's just like, hey, man, you know, there's a whole world of other clinical application with polygenic risk scores that we can be looking at, you know, as it relates to dyslipidemia, cardiometabolic issues like LP little a that tracks 98 % of the time. you have a gene for LP little a, you might have those elevations, you know, on on your lipid profile. You know, not to mention, you know, some of the pharmacogenetic applications as well, you know, knowing, you know, kind of predicting

If needed drug or medication how somebody's gonna respond to it? I'm not saying that's the holy grail, but it's definitely a tool that we could use in our kit to make a personalized decision about you know Selecting a medication so, know with patients. I'm like, I'm always like hey man, know, this is your data We're gonna revert back to this all the freaking time It's not a one time like this is your blueprint and this is your death sentence now go

Right now, it's like, do we how to use this? How do we look under the hood? Where do we need to pay attention to? You know, what areas do we need supporting? And that's when we work our way up the molecular ladder and look at proteomics, metabolomics and a few others. know, metabolomic testing, I really like therium. Proteomic testing, I really like molecular you. I think Robert Frazier from Molecular You is a brilliant clinician. I'm sorry, PhD researcher slash borderline clinician.

Freddie Kimmel (51:21.048)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (51:33.094)
I think Paniz Jaspi from Ethereum is one of the brightest metabolomists that I've ever had the privilege of speaking with. And guess what? All those guys are on my board. I'm trying to find the best technologies, the best people in the field to pull them together so that we could all play nicely in the sandbox and bring forth the future of precision medicine. And that's it.

Freddie Kimmel (51:43.267)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (51:54.253)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (51:56.966)
Exposomics, I've got different opinions about different companies, mosaics out there, vibrant wellness is out there. So there's just different ways of really unpacking that provoked urine testing versus unprovoked for data collection on heavy metals. There's just different arguments depending on the individual.

Freddie Kimmel (52:17.45)
I'll tell you, I just did a vibrant total talk panel and I had done one before. And I did one after, our sauna and a flow press. So I connected, collected urine the next morning and it was shocking mold mold, gliotoxins and a three or four pesticides at like the 95th percentile. And I was, you know, I've, I say this, I've said this a couple of times on the show that

Anil Bajnath, MD (52:20.675)
yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (52:32.221)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (52:41.927)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (52:46.476)
that I had done other environmental burden tests and they were clean, you know, but after doing those two therapies, I was like, holy cow. And you know, the way I live, you know, it's pretty, pretty wild. was, I was like, man, I've been at this like 15 years. Are you kidding me? But it was also, it was so empowering. I was like, again, it's never going to be a sprint. It's just a lifestyle. Nothing really changes.

Anil Bajnath, MD (52:57.81)
Yeah, I do.

Freddie Kimmel (53:14.082)
I keep doing my thing, take a little bit of a binder, keep sweating three to four times a week, do a full press once a week, eat clean, support my gut, support my liver, be enjoy. Like you said, life's really short. Try to have a rock star of a good time. and just have, try to have more fun with it. yeah, try to have more fun with it, which I do. I have a good time. like, I love being alive. It's great.

Anil Bajnath, MD (53:30.174)
That's it. Have fun.

Yeah, you do. I love seeing you. Every time I see you, you know, it's always a good time, whether we go to another clinic and get IVs or, I don't know, I think I saw you at the Steve Aoki at the Biohacker Conference performance. Were you at that?

Freddie Kimmel (53:42.339)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (53:51.446)
No, but that was a great example of a show where, you know, you're at an event with 4,000 people and you're putting, you know what it's like to wrap one person in Flo-Presso. It's like, you're committed, you're with them. It's not just like slap them on and push go. There's a facilitation process. We were wrapping a hundred people a day for three days. So I...

Anil Bajnath, MD (53:57.886)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (54:04.82)
yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (54:15.166)
Oh my goodness. Yeah. I've got a couple more wraps in with you too.

Freddie Kimmel (54:19.982)
Yeah, you did. And so by the end of the three days, you're just like, dude, I'm like, the only way I can show up tomorrow, the way I did today is going to bed, I'm going to eat really clean, I'm going to do some subq NAD and some N-acidos-al-lanc. And, you know, I got my ways to get through the shows these days that I feel because I want to be the best version of myself for all those people.

Anil Bajnath, MD (54:26.002)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (54:31.484)
yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (54:42.27)
That's best version of myself. That's the thing. You got to kind of recharge and be able to create that balance, especially when it's so energetically depleting when you're doing so much of that. Every time I see you, you're always on the go, you know? And that's it. It's knowing when you could actually kind of unplug and let loose a little bit. But again, I'm a conference junkie. I've been going to these things.

Freddie Kimmel (54:46.285)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (54:59.992)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (55:10.014)
I've been going to A4M since I was an undergrad, know, so over, you know, gosh, I don't want to date myself, but almost 20 years now. And it's, you know, again, before even starting med school, I was already thinking, I'm like, all right, these doctors, they know, they're way ahead of the curve compared to, dare I say, I don't want to put anybody, I don't want to marginalize anybody else's work, you know, all my friends in the space that are in the trenches and family medicine and.

in healthcare, they're doing the best that they can based on the institutional rules, regulations, limitations and scope. So, and I will make the last argument that I do think that when you really start looking at drug therapy and longevity that, you know, it's very interesting to see that some of these, you know, common medications that are being prescribed, metformin, lozartin, and, you know, dare I even say statins, you know, are touted to be longevity promoting agents. I know that's a very polarizing concept.

But if you're to actually go to the literature, they're actually augmenting and neutralizing some of these hallmarks of aging. You know, the TAME trial targeting aging with metformin is a real study that is like, man, metformin has some benefits. So, you know, arguably, you know, primary care doctors are longevity physicians in the trenches dispensing arguably some of the most, you know, impressive forms of anti-aging drugs. I don't know.

Freddie Kimmel (56:35.79)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (56:35.806)
That's one way of seeing it. But how do you dial in the other side of the equation with the dietary lifestyle and biohacking? You got to have a passion for it. You got to have a passion to build that routine and do the things that you do. Go outside and shower naked and hug your puppy and do all the fun stuff. So yeah, man.

Freddie Kimmel (56:54.818)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jump in the cold plunge when nobody's around watching you. I do feel that, you know, another, the other idea I've been playing with is like this, you know, the body doesn't lie. This protein expression, like if all the things I were doing were bad, right? I've got this great, I've got my own Dunedin aging pace study. It's called my high school class. So

Anil Bajnath, MD (57:18.278)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (57:20.384)
If I go back and I can look at the other 47 year olds and I'm like, I'm doing something right, right? I've got this own little pod because the skin is a great expression of the proteome. My eyes, the health of my teeth, my mobility, my cognitive function, word recall. I've got all these little things that I can, I have my little touch points that I know if some of the things that I'm engaging in be it.

the lifestyle or the diagnostic testing or some of the oxidative therapies or drinking hydrogen water every day. know, theoretically, they're, you know, they're, they're showing up as this expression that is Freddie, that's like working for me. So that's the other thing that's really interesting in our space because, you know, you'll again, you'll see people touting this longevity something. And I'm like, God, you look like death. You don't look rested or, or, you know, you're not kidding. You know, okay.

Anil Bajnath, MD (58:12.648)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (58:19.074)
there's clearly we've done some, there's been some cutting happening here. It's not, this is not the, this is not the lifestyle. Not to shame or judge that, but that's like, you know, another thing it's like, you know, we do have this body that is like our evidentiary proof of the work.

Anil Bajnath, MD (58:33.586)
Yeah, you know, and I got to say, like, when you're in the trenches, you know, and you see all these influencers that have, you know, they're able to monetize things differently. You know, they have different streams of income that could afford that type of lifestyle. I love that. Good for them. But when you're like, you know, still seeing patients, you're still lecturing, whatever it is, or you're working your job, you know, it becomes difficult when you're you have a family. You know what the greatest threat to longevity is? Having kids.

I hate to say it, like early on, you know, having kids, the sleep disruption, just the stress levels and everything associated with that. I got to say it's more challenging than going through residency and being sleep deprived for a month, you know. So it's just very interesting to see. And I can only commend my colleagues that, you know, did residency and had kids and was pregnant and delivered during. They are the strongest women I know. And all I could say is, you know, it's just very interesting.

because there's so many confounding variables that threaten our potential longevity, right? You know, I have, we were just sharing, have a two and a half year old at the time of this recording and I have another one on the way in like less than a month. I'm not gonna sleep for the next year too, you know? And it's just like, it sucks because I love my sleep. I love tracking my sleep. I love the, you know, the data points that we get from that and trying to biohack, but I'm afraid to even take a melatonin.

Freddie Kimmel (59:51.843)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:00:01.478)
you know, to try to get deeper sleep because it's going to be disrupted. I already know it, you know? So it's like, how do you build in kind of these safeguards to optimize some of these potential threats to your routine, rhythm and routine with biohacking? And it just comes with time, you know? For me, it's this phase of life, you know? And we...

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:12.867)
Mmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:20.291)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:24.378)
Yeah, and to your point, it's part of that is part of our biology to have a child and be through this wave of disruption, whether it's two, three, however many years it is, and people do it. Like you said, they do it and they come out the other side and you're like, probably, how did you do that? And the person's probably like, I have no idea, but, but I'm here and it's, good now.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:00:28.552)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:00:41.574)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, go on.

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:49.326)
I know it's an hour. know you're in practice. I want to be mindful of our time and our hour. We will definitely do this again because there's so many things that we could talk about and just explore. And again, think the value for me is I want people to probably going to listen to this podcast, a lot of consumers, a lot of people seeking, they want more out of their body. And to not be overwhelmed if you didn't grasp every single content.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:00:51.165)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:00:58.177)
I loved it.

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:18.542)
uh, context that we're putting on bodies, but the idea that there are clinics like yours doing this at a very high level, is truly precision medicine. My question for you is can people see you without coming to Maryland or do you. Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:01:31.126)
yeah, I see people all over the world, I've got, I'm licensed in 40 something states, number one. The only request is patients in New York need to come and see me in person first. That's like the one state that's like not friendly. Yeah, so I'm licensed in the North, but the continuity could be delivered virtually thereafter. So I see patients all over the world. Germany, Switzerland, France, they...

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:45.474)
New York. Always.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:01:59.506)
people fly in from all over the world to come and see me. I got somebody coming in tomorrow from Portugal, you know, and I have a doc flying in tomorrow from Boston to be seen here. So it's just, you know, we have fun and yeah, that's it. We have fun with what we do.

Freddie Kimmel (01:02:21.144)
fun. Where do people go just to explore if they want to check out your site?

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:02:24.382)
Yeah, so I got a couple of websites. The main website is ifhoinstituteforhumanoptimization.org. I also have the ABOPM, you know, for the Board of Precision Medicine.org. So the ABOPM.org. I have my personal website, you know, they just Google my name.

We'll find some stuff there, some good, some bad, and then some indifferent, whatever. And so, but yeah, I'm around, know, Instagram and whatever. just not that active on it. I'm just so busy with like teaching at university and stuff. You know, it's hard to keep up with all those different moving parts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:02:56.674)
Hahaha!

Freddie Kimmel (01:03:05.791)
go ahead, please.

Freddie Kimmel (01:03:11.074)
Yeah, don't do that. Don't do that. You don't need to do that. You got plenty on your plate. That is probably filling your cup a lot in greater capacity.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:03:21.476)
yeah, yeah. Well, right now my biggest goal is leading that revolution in healthcare with adopting, you know, this new paradigm shift towards a precision medicine approach and being able to democratize the tests and getting it covered by insurance so that we could have access, everybody could have access to this type of information. You know, that's not going to break the bank. You know, that's my goal.

Freddie Kimmel (01:03:42.284)
Yeah, beautiful. That's so needed. That's so needed. Well, I'm honored to know you, happy that you are charging forward even with a baby on the way. And just let me know how I can support you in the future.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:03:44.382)
Yeah.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:03:52.368)
yeah.

We have a conference, our first conference is going to be in San Diego, October 9th. And it's gonna be kind of piggybacking off the Health Information Exchange Conference with Jeremy from BioCANIC. But we're doing a one day event just as a lead for the American Board of Precision Medicine. And then we're also having a giant round table at Illumina headquarters in La Jolla the day before. you know, if people are interested, you know, they could take that event. It's gonna be limited to 100 folks, you know.

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:07.886)
Mm-hmm.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:04:25.271)
And but yeah, you know, got that event that's coming up in October.

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:30.742)
And I'll see you at A4M for sure. Great. Great.

Anil Bajnath, MD (01:04:32.732)
Yeah, I should be there. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, I'm doing a talk at A4M Boston on CineLytics in September. I'll try to make it to Vegas in December, but I'll have a newborn. As long as I'm allowed to go, I'll be there. Nice. Yeah, man. Great seeing you, buddy. Awesome. Thank you.

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:45.559)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:49.602)
I love it. I love it. Thank you for being a guest, Anil. Such a treat. Good seeing you. Big love.