Shawn Wells: Unlocking True Energy with Paraxanthine

WELCOME TO EPISODE 208

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT 

Freddie Kimmel (00:01.27)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the beautifully broken podcast. We are here with the famous Sean Wells. Welcome.

Shawn Wells (00:10.468)
Thank you. Thank you for having me, Freddie.

Freddie Kimmel (00:12.928)
What a treat. Sean, I don't even think I've told you this, but one night I read your book, The Energy Formula, and you know, I love a health book. love, you know, the secrets only a biochemist, dietitian, and certified sports nutritionist could know. But what I was really surprised to feel was the vulnerability. And I really got a sense of who you are from this book. You're such a tender, loving, caring human being. It was really beautifully done.

Shawn Wells (00:42.648)
Yes, thank you. I mean, that really is, it's funny. I was just talking with my team about what my brand is and transparency and vulnerabilities is a huge part of that. And I think you know my story about like suicidal thoughts, depression, et cetera, but that book doesn't cover my journey through psychedelics,

really led to a massive pivot and I don't believe I would be talking to you right now had I not done that work.

Shawn Wells (01:20.74)
So really I feel like I'm on my second life. I do feel like there's a part of me that died there, like the old version of Sean died there. I I still love that version of Sean. have a very tender place for Sean, but there was something like a phoenix that kind of arose from the ashes out of that. And on this second chance at life on this 2 .0,

My mission is very clear and being vulnerable and transparent.

allows me to make deeper impact. You know, I respect a lot of the other biohackers in the space that are, you know, a little bit more masculine energy, a little bit like just throwing out data or more affiliate driven or whatever it is. Like, but I think I am my brand who I am as, being vulnerable and transparent first, because I'm no better than anyone else. I'm an authority at the things I know.

but that doesn't make me better than anyone. And I'm someone that for all intents and purposes should be, could be dead right now. So, you know, one in the book, I go through a lot of my mental and physical health journeys. But the funny thing is I actually left out quite a bit some stuff that was still at the time a little too painful for me to go through. And now,

including a divorce that I was going through at the time of writing that book. And so I've been through quite a bit, quite a bit. And I come through on the, the other side of that, just, you know, it's funny. And we've talked about this, like I've actually used the term for like probably more than a decade, just kind of offhandedly what you've named this podcast. I literally like, I had a presentation.

Shawn Wells (03:22.5)
at, I'm not saying like you took it or anything. I'm not saying that at all. Just think alike. I used that term when I was presenting at Health Optimization Summit in 2019. It's like, it's literally like how I view myself as this, you know, beautifully broken, like that we're not.

Freddie Kimmel (03:25.698)
Hehehehe

Shawn Wells (03:47.148)
You know, we're not somehow...

supposed to be perfect. We're not supposed to be, you know, some version of ourselves that doesn't have the hill to climb, the battles, the challenges, the dark days. Like the human experience is in that. And I would not be, I was just talking about this with a friend yesterday about,

You know, what would you go back and change? There's nothing. There's nothing I would go back and change because if I didn't have these dark days of my childhood, if I didn't have all the health challenges that I have, if I didn't have the mental health challenges, the, you know, the divorce, the, you know, being burned for tens of millions of dollars in business, I wouldn't be who I am.

I wouldn't have the vulnerability. I wouldn't have the mission. I wouldn't have the purpose. I wouldn't have the empathy, the drive. I wouldn't have got into supplementation and nutrition. wouldn't connect and have the desire to help and make impact like I do. And this is truly like the hero's journey. And my drive now is to not brag about or

incessantly about my hero's journey, but that the next piece of that is for me to be the mentor and help you being everyone through their hero's journey and be that guide so I can make that process easier, safer for you while also respecting your sovereignty and autonomy in that process. Anyway.

Freddie Kimmel (05:42.786)
Yeah. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I think the number one post I've ever done on Facebook, which I have a total love hate relationship was, I said, if you could go back to any time in your life and revisit with your knowledge and collective understanding that you hold today, where would you go? And it was really fascinating. know, of course people were like, I would never go back. wouldn't change anything. And there were people that got really creative with it. They're like, if I knew what I knew now.

You know, I would go back to 17 years old and there was this girl that I loved and I always wanted to have the courage to just go up and break the ice and start this conversation. I never did it. And I always wondered what that would be like if I had this knowing of myself. It was a really beautiful, I sat and read every, was probably a hundred comments on the post, but it was really fascinating how our psyche examines the past and the value that may lie within those really traumatic times or those pieces

God, I wish I had the courage. I wish I had the courage. But I've always said, you know, if you can, I really believe that we can go back and I think we can work with those moments. Sometimes I'll work those in therapy, like an EMDR, and I'll go have a conversation with that eight -year -old Freddie or that 12 -year -old Freddie and the shift on the other side of that. And when I leave that therapy session, I go to the grocery store, I'm a totally different person. So I don't know if anything like that resonates with you.

Shawn Wells (07:16.836)
Yeah, 100%. There's really two through lines that I've learned through my work with journeys in particular, being in that psychedelic space and being facilitated. One would be that sovereignty and autonomy are absolutely critical. If you're getting therapy, if you're getting advice and someone's trying to steer your path,

that that's probably not the right advice for you. Like, I think it's best if someone listens and helps you come up with the best solution. And that gives you empowerment over your own life. And this is so critical in the facilitated psychedelic space where, you know, a guru or someone like this can come in and kind of bypass

and tell you what to do or tell you what you're feeling or these kinds of things. And it's really important that you maintain your individuality, that you maintain your autonomy, meaning you are your own person, your own sovereignty, meaning you are in charge of your life. And that none of it's your fault, but you are responsible for everything.

That is something that's come through for me and I feel like is a very powerful message. Like don't take blame for things. Don't sit in the blame. Don't sit in that anxiety. Don't own things that aren't yours. It's not your fault. Anything. And you are responsible for your life. Period. Stop.

Freddie Kimmel (09:07.15)
Yeah.

Shawn Wells (09:09.656)
But the other thing beyond that, I would say that comes through in this journey space, beyond the sovereignty and autonomy, is

is really just, the most important thing that I've seen is your nervous system. A dysregulated nervous system is going to have a massive impact on your mental health, your spiritual health, your physical health, your relationships, your finances. If you are constantly in fight or flight, if you are constantly looking for what's wrong, what's going to harm

You will never be in a relaxed state. You will never be in parasympathetic. You will never be in rest and digest. And by the way, that means that you're always inflamed. You're always in a disease state. You're always working too much. There's too many calories that you're burning in your head because your brain uses a lot of ATP and you're constantly working through scenarios to keep yourself safe. And you're creating trauma.

where there isn't even any trauma because you're creating your own reality. And what I've seen, like when I first started psychedelics, like let's say in my psilocybin work, it took me, this is with like MDA is a heart opener, sassafras, I would need five or six grams to get into the proper space. When I spent time doing the work years later,

Freddie Kimmel (10:31.907)
Yeah.

Shawn Wells (10:54.796)
and doing like that deep inner work, doing like work around grief of my marriage and spending time sitting with myself, really coming to terms with who I am and what I'm responsible for.

Then I was doing a gram and having a full on journey. Why? Because it's not about body size. It's not about male or female. It's about you being able to lean in or lean out. If I was to tell you like you were, you know, you were drunk, most people know what that feels like. Some people don't know what psychedelics feels like. That's fine. Cause this applies across the board, not just psychedelics. If you were drunk,

and your friend fell over and cracked their head on the sidewalk and there was blood everywhere. All of a sudden, norepinephrine, epinephrine, cortisol, everything's pouring in. You're like sober, boom. You're ready, you're ready for action. You're no longer drunk, right? You can control that. You can like lean out and sober up. And so the opposite is true.

When you're really in parasympathetic and you're fully leaned in, it's like you, and you know you've got that lifeline, like a deep sea diver or an astronaut that has the oxygen, you can just explore and keep going out there. Cause you feel safe, like that, that inner child that you were talking about, or when you were a child, if you had good parenting, you could go explore.

But this is true, I've been thinking through this on a deep level with supplements, as you know, I'm kind of the supplement guy. I believe that when we are in ultra sympathetic, when we are in like the sympathetic nervous system, that we are not absorbing and utilizing nutrients very

Shawn Wells (12:55.204)
Taking the other side of this, if you are meditating, if you are in parasympathetic, if you're doing box breathing, if you're doing gratitude, if you're manifesting, if you're doing affirmations about what these nutrients are about to give you, I guarantee that these nutrients would have data that doubles, triples, quadruples what they show in a

Shawn Wells (13:21.368)
So it's true either way. We can will ourselves either way to placebo or nocebo. And I don't think this gets talked about very much with supplements or food or exercise or interventions, let alone psychedelics, but this is a bigger picture thing that a dysregulated nervous system is at the core of everything.

Freddie Kimmel (13:49.454)
Yeah. I would 100 % join with you in that. I think there's so much science and work around placebo effects, what the body thinks is being administered, and some of the incredible outcomes that I've quoted on the podcast and in earlier shows. know you as like the supplement wizard. You're a formulator and I've heard your name for years and years before we met through Kristen Whitesell, the great Kristen Whitesell.

And I'm aware that in the market, even since I got into health, which was like 2007, 2006, the field has exploded. Right? And I always look at this idea that the market is driven by the incentive model. It's like, what do people need? What are they longing for? You know, they're longing for this connection and clarity and energy, limitless energy, you know, the energy formula. They're looking for a lot of these things. So it's driven.

the market to be filled with every solution and every pill and every supplement, not always within great context. I'm simultaneously frustrated at this because I see so many claims without any validity behind it. And I'm also very empathetic because for me, I see, people must really be wanting this because they're buying it. They're paying for it. But then we have a lot of these failed outcomes because

people will create the story, dot, dot, dot didn't work for me. You know, I bought this technology and it didn't relieve my rheumatoid arthritis realizing the immense amount of variables within a body. How do you manage that in your, when you view the field, you view what's needed as far as like formulation, creation, having conversations with people around what to look for for their body.

Shawn Wells (15:45.188)
100 ,000%. So this is a great lead in. This isn't me trying to sell anything, I promise. This is a Mindvalley state. So I just formulated this for Mindvalley and it leads into this idea that you're talking about and I just talked about with the dysregulated nervous system. The flip side of that is what do you want to achieve? We talked about with Mindvalley as I was designing this for them.

because they're all about manifestation and personal growth and those kinds of things. If you know Mindvalley, with Vishen Lankyani and all the different authors, I'm now an author of a whole supplement. It's kind of like masterclass for lack of a better term. But as you can see here, if you're looking at the video, there's dream, there's GASM, which is about connection and intimacy, bliss, focus, and Zen. And so this is about achieve one, they had to all be experiential.

But two, it's about achieving these states. you, like a thought that I had is similar to the idea that I was coming up with before about me being the mentor, me being the guide on your hero's journey is you formulate your state. You are sovereign. Typically we're getting supplements that are addressing body parts, right? Like lung, brain, eyes, know, bone, like whatever,

It's addressing a disease state with blood pressure or blood glucose or, whatever it is. But there's very little about like a higher vibration about like, what do you want to choose? When you get into another aspect that I learned through journey spaces, one, speaking your truth, because you were kind of mentioning those stories before about confidence and wishing you had said something.

A lot of people don't speak their truth, right? And they don't know how to elevate their state. They don't know how to choose. we're operating, again, this is our nervous system, operating from a place of scarcity instead of a place of abundance. And so this is like that, okay, yes, and I hear you. Instead of telling me this is NLP,

Shawn Wells (18:03.449)
which I've studied a lot in our linguistics programming, which is like Dr. Bruce Lipton, which is Joe Dispenza, which is Jim Quick, Tony Robbins, et cetera. Okay, like I know what you don't want. That's scarcity thinking. That's away from thinking. Let's do abundance towards thinking. What is it you do want instead?

and manifest that because if we're always saying what we don't want, then that comes in. If we say what we do want, then that comes in. So this is that type of thinking where let's go to a higher vibration and you formulate your state you choose. And actually with this idea, like they're building in this holistic system that does have music and meditations and affirmations and

like aromatherapy and all kinds of things as psychosomatic anchors, that each time you do these things help you get into that state faster and faster and faster, you become hardwired. It's similar to in the journey state, like let's say if you have a certain song, you know, that like while you're having an epiphany and there's music playing, that song is like click, hardwired, right? Your neurons have wired together for that

Whenever you hear that song now, you go right back to that place. And actually a more powerful sense is your sense of smell, your olfactory, even more powerful. It's like the smell of chocolate chip cookies or whatever. These things trigger memories instantly, make you feel a certain way instantly. So just trying to use all these pieces so that we can anchor. But if you even think about Frere, I grew up in a Christian home.

Freddie Kimmel (19:30.755)
Yeah.

Shawn Wells (19:55.554)
And just the idea before you eat food was, dear Lord, please allow this food to nourish our bodies. We're so thankful that we have food when other people don't. Whoa, like let's think about that. We're calming ourselves down. We're bowing our heads. We're like getting into a different state of mind. We're having gratitude for the

we're actually giving an affirmation saying the food is going to nourish our bodies. Super interesting, right? I guarantee when people pray across any religion, irrespective of religion, they're going to have a better outcome in terms of the nourishment to their bodies because they transform their nervous system, transform their brainwave state, and are probably upregulating enzymes.

Freddie Kimmel (20:27.917)
Mm -hmm.

Shawn Wells (20:46.792)
and absorption and utilization and storage, etc. down regulating inflammation,

Freddie Kimmel (20:55.756)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just, my current example is it just really been in for the last year and a half into lymphatics and looking at this incredible system that manages all cellular waste and it manages our dietary fats and our immune system that is smooth muscle. And this smooth muscle has a propensity to move this excess fluid out of the body when we're in parasympathetic. And you kind of think about this example of like

What would happen if your toilet was flushing on quarter power for 20 years? What would the bathroom look like? And I immediately go to, like, well, what would the environment of the cell look like if we had 20 years of just the lymphatics, which was offline? It's really incredible to frame it that way. what I find is people, instantly it's like, I don't want that. And there's no fix for that aside from, like you're saying,

Shawn Wells (21:37.07)
Mm.

Freddie Kimmel (21:52.184)
there is this radical ownership of this. Number one, it's nervous system regulation. I hope people hear that and just really take away from if one thing from this podcast, how important that is to understand how it operates and how you can really cultivate that

Shawn Wells (22:11.236)
I mean, if you want a better life, like doing all these other interventions and not addressing your nervous system, good luck. Like they're not gonna stick. What is that quote from like atomic habits? Like you don't rise to the, you your goals, like fall into like your systems essentially

Freddie Kimmel (22:37.064)
You fall into the level of your basic training.

Shawn Wells (22:39.618)
Yeah, yeah, essentially. So like if your nervous system has been hardwired a certain way, you need to address that. You need to be safe. You need to be safe in your own body before like you can address like how we're going to do all these amazing things. need to be, this is like Maslow's pyramid, like the hierarchy of needs. Like you can't, you can't talk about like, I want self actualization and

Freddie Kimmel (23:01.698)
Yeah.

Shawn Wells (23:05.924)
anti -aging and to live to 180 and blah blah blah if you don't feel safe in your body if you don't feel safe in your environment period

Freddie Kimmel (23:15.114)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And what a great time to have this conversation as we go into another election where I just wrote yesterday, I was like, it's always incredible for me to these great thought leaders that I have in my space and I'll watch people bring themselves to a boiling point of rage. And the rage is driven from the inability to control everybody else to hold their viewpoint.

It's like, got to think better about how this conversation unfolds, especially at this time. I really think that this conversation is what allows the country to come together. I don't know if you have thoughts on that at this

Shawn Wells (23:56.164)
So I literally went like into that when I was on the edge of suicide and I, that January 2020, like New Year's 2020, going into that just before COVID, also heading into election year and all these things.

That's when I did my first journey. That's when I was broke open. And then I was like, literally every couple of weeks, I was going into the journey space. I'm not recommending everyone do this, but that's where I was because not only was I working on myself, but I felt attacked and unsafe with COVID, with Black Lives Matter, with Republicans versus Democrats, with people being choked and killed,

you know, all this stuff that would terrorism and, know, all the things that we were being thrown. And I'm like, like, I felt attacked, triggered, scared. You know, I didn't know what to believe who I am. And then you're also getting like all this, you know, like the results are manipulated like on social media and politics and you know, Facebook is a lie. And, know, it's like, whoa.

and then we're being watched 24 seven and like all these things are coming through and it's like, holy crap. And it's frightening. But when I got in these spaces, I would be around red pill, blue pill, whatever you want to call it, like extreme left, extreme right, people that are trans, people that are straight, people that are all kinds of people, black, white, Mexican.

Freddie Kimmel (25:15.736)
Holy crap.

Shawn Wells (25:38.284)
Lesbian, gay, straight, like all religions. And what I found was everyone could have these conversations and be deeply respectful. It's possible. It's possible. Like I don't need to change your mind. All we have to do is like respect that you have a certain viewpoint and I have a certain viewpoint and allow someone their sovereignty if you want yours.

Freddie Kimmel (25:49.304)
Mm -hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (26:09.101)
Yeah.

Shawn Wells (26:10.294)
If you want your sovereignty and autonomy, allow someone else theirs. And you know what? You're going to have less stress with that because you can't change everyone else. And it's not your job to change someone else. You want to make change? Start with the man in the mirror. Be the change you want to see in the world and be the example.

Freddie Kimmel (26:34.926)
Yeah.

Shawn Wells (26:35.64)
You want someone to actually change? Then show it with your actions. Show why your path is the better path. Shut the F up and live it. Live it. Because all this other stuff on the news is highly manipulated. And one thing Donald Trump for sure got right is fake news. But it's all fake news. All fake news. It's all manipulative. It's all clickbait.

It's all meant to incite rage because if it incites rage, I don't know if you ever heard about like Howard Stern. used to talk about how his fans used to listen to him for about, I think the number was like 45 minutes. His haters listened to him for about two and a half hours.

Shawn Wells (27:25.016)
So he's like, I'd rather have haters.

Freddie Kimmel (27:29.548)
Yeah, yeah, I understand

Shawn Wells (27:30.532)
So think about, think about like, like we, we, are attracted to feeling unsafe. We are attracted to these scare tactics. We want to share it. We want to tell everyone about it. We want to be angry. We want to cancel each other. What's that

Freddie Kimmel (27:51.278)
Yeah. Well, I, again, I think it's another great topic I'd love your take on. You know, I look at the modern day design of how we interact in the world and we're in these comfortable, so comfortable, I have all the food I want, anything I could ever want. 72 degree box, it's cool and air conditioned in Austin, Texas. I don't, I schedule time on my day.

Shawn Wells (28:03.427)
Amen.

Freddie Kimmel (28:21.474)
to go pick up and down heavy molded pieces of iron and tin and metal to stress my nervous system to lift things. Like I make up things that are going to compliment the physiology that I was designed to do. I never am in a, I'm never in a fight for my life. I'm never, I'm not truly threatened. So sometimes I just wonder, is it part of this ancient monkey man that wants to go back and experience

Is that why I do

Shawn Wells (28:53.368)
That's an interesting thought process. I do think there is some of that. That does make sense that there is a lizard brain part of us that needs to feel alive, needs to feel needed, needs to feel heard.

Right? A lot of us like this, we have frustration about not speaking up, not speaking our truth. And we want to be heard. We want our voice to have meaning, but we don't use it. But then we have frustration and want to cancel everyone, everything.

That's a, it's a great point. But again, goes back to like, you know, you have to be a man of action and not a man of words. And, you know, what does that quote, what's the poet, she's an African -American poet that wrote for politicians. And, she said, they won't remember this. It's kind of another step. They won't remember what you said. They won't remember what you did.

Freddie Kimmel (29:38.904)
That's so, so interesting.

Shawn Wells (30:05.604)
They'll remember how you made them feel. And that's a powerful thought too. That's what people are left with is how are you just impacting other human souls and other nervous systems? Are you winding other people up? Are you winding yourself up? Are you making other people more unsafe or are you making them more safe? Just comes down to

There's really only two emotions, right? There's fear and love, that's it. And so are you creating more fear or are you creating more love? What are you doing with your day?

Freddie Kimmel (30:45.642)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beautifully said. Beautifully said. I do allow that to guide me a majority of the time and like everybody else, I'll get caught up in story about, I'll get caught up in worry about finances or impact or achievement or how am I going to change the world with my short little life? I feel if I stay in that too long, albeit useful at moments,

Shawn Wells (30:46.457)
Period.

Freddie Kimmel (31:15.01)
that it really can take me off track, that I really can let that take the driver's seat sometimes. But I do. What a great guiding principle just to say it before you go out of the door in the morning. How am going to wind up people and move them into love? How am I going to be that embodiment and allow people to be attracted like a little bug to the light? It's like, I want that what that guy's doing. What he's talking about, he looks very happy.

I know I certainly am drawn to people online that have that. They just have a zest. They have a natural joy. you know, irradiate, you know, this level of, yeah.

Shawn Wells (31:54.116)
People feel it. People know it. Look, I, know, speaking of journeys to my nervous system, like I have to tell you this, like you can tell like heading into a journey, like someone who's like wound up in their nervous system is tight and there's, they're like, there's like an anger, a seething anger that's coming through and it like winds you up. makes you feel unsafe. I remember coming out of a journey once and I felt like, like, like you're saying.

radiating love. felt so much inner peace. Everyone's like, wow, your face looks so much younger and all. And I walked out on the balcony and this was actually in the Austin area. And a deer literally walked up out of the woods and got about 20 feet from me. And I thought that was already like, like, what is this? And then the deer laid down and slept in the yard.

Like while it was looking at me and I was looking at it, it laid down and slept because it felt safe.

animals sense it, you sense it, there's pheromones, there's micro gestures, our sweat, there's so much data points through evolution that are being given off of whether you're, even before you speak, of whether you are safe or unsafe, whether your nervous system is regulated or dysregulated. And people can sense

Freddie Kimmel (33:31.148)
Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. I love that the animal is like, this guy ain't a threat to me. I'm picking up nothing but love. Time for a nap. Time for a nap. Sean, we, you know, again, if we look at this conversation around nervous system and nervous system regulation, I know for myself, one thing that in the past, as I got into the optimization space

like we all do, it's like, want to be better. I want to be a better version of myself. So, you know, I might say, well, it benefits me to do a little methylene blue. And I really love the way this nicotine gum feels. And I'm going to have a black coffee with a little MTC oil blended in. And then I'm going to go do a little PEMF and a red light. And then I'm going to do an ice bath. And so I've noticed for me, and at times when I get so, I'm chasing these little dopamine hits,

Shawn Wells (34:28.772)
Mm -hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (34:29.1)
And it feels good. And that's, that's my human design. That's like, I want to be up. You know, if there was probably a drug that complimented me, it'd be cocaine. I'd be like, that's my job. Yeah, just, just get me right there. Let's have this hot. No space between the words. I just want to let everything rip.

We have a lot of things in society, even outside of the biohacker realm, right? That are like supporting that energetic ride, you know, over caffeinated. You know, we can think about like, just look at the content stream that comes out on Netflix. It's like, boom, boom, there's like something in a series and there's eight episodes of the storyline. And you just, you ride that whole series out and you're just left on this high. How, what are some of the things that you're doing?

Or what are some things you're shifting out to be able to maintain a space where your nervous system can land for a little bit and then re -experience that peak as far as like in the supplementation world or what, where would you point

Shawn Wells (35:31.726)
Couple things, you know, like when I do me and my girlfriend voice memo each other on WhatsApp all day and she also works with me as a project manager. One thing we did was separate out our discussions on WhatsApp. We have a work chat and a personal chat. That helps a lot. I could get into some really good reasons for that, but I will just tell you

That kind of stuff is important. But also I'm just thinking about, this is a small thing, but it's important. Like every time I listen to her messages, personal messages, I always make sure it's on one X. I don't want to like get into a space like where I need everything like this. Faster, faster, faster. What are you doing for me? What are you doing for me? I need it faster. Can you speak faster? You're useless to me unless you fill in the gaps right

I don't want to bring that into my personal relationships. And like that, that spider webs out into a lot of things. So I think it's important, you know, one of the reasons people have trusted me in the journey space, holding space is because I am a listener and a space holder. And if anyone's hugged me, they know that like I take like a minute to hug someone.

Freddie Kimmel (36:33.037)
Yeah.

Shawn Wells (36:56.524)
I give someone the space and time for their nervous system. I allow someone to speak to people that haven't been heard. I just want to make sure you're safe as the protector and provider as a good man that is supposed to be. I want to create the container that's safe for you. And unfortunately, a lot of men are not creating the safe containers and I wasn't in the past either.

You know, that was like one of my biggest lessons that came through in this journey space is I am not creating a safe container for myself. How can I create a safe container for someone else, friends, coworkers, lovers, et cetera? I cannot. I need to heal myself to create a safe container for myself, for that inner child that you were talking about.

so that that inner child has a safe place to play and be.

if I want to create the safe container for my lover, significant other, et cetera. So I think that's really important. The next thing that I would say is that, you know, as men, I feel like we have a higher threshold for like hormetic stresses because we don't have a menstrual

You know, it's important, a woman needs some stability, some nutrients, to maintain fertility, right? And so we have like kind of a higher threshold for things like keto, for fasting, for, you know, maybe some of these variances. I'm not saying that some women don't do that and have just as much ability as a man. I'm not saying that, but just if you were to look at on average, if a woman is pre

Shawn Wells (38:58.368)
and in her kind of fertile part of life, that men have a little bit more of a threshold.

But I will say that these things that are hormetic stresses that should seem positive, eustresses, EU stresses, at times can be distresses and actually be counterproductive if your allostatic capacity, your stress bucket is overflowing. And I think this is something that like, they're not always good things.

You need to be aware of your nervous system, of your body. You just lost your job. If you just got divorced, if you just got screwed over by your best friend, right now, fasting, cold plunging, hot sauna, whatever it is, may not be the right thing. And stacking them might not be the right thing. You need to be aware of that. That's HRV and some of those things can be helpful.

Freddie Kimmel (40:06.477)
Mm -hmm.

Shawn Wells (40:06.926)
But again, this goes back to nervous system, then it goes back to self care. And for women, this is especially true. They need self care. They need to maintain another being. Their body is made to maintain another human being. The greatest miracle of life. Please ladies, do not deny this idea of like biology and physiology. It is the most beautiful thing. Even if you never have a child, the capability...

of maintaining a child is a very powerful thing. Freddie and I would not be here otherwise. You know, that is a very powerful thing. Acknowledge that. Have love for that. Including, like I hear women talk about their menstruation like it's terrible thing. having, I've heard some women say like, you childbirth is, you know, these things are incredible. This is part of you. Find the beauty in all of it.

Freddie Kimmel (41:04.205)
Mm -hmm.

Shawn Wells (41:05.23)
There is so much beauty in everything we do. know, like shedding and going through this renewal cycle, the cleansing, that's beautiful. Even the idea like, you know, in the journey space, sometimes, you know, people will vomit, they'll have diarrhea, they'll have snot, they'll have, this is a cleansing. Those things are the sort of body.

Biological processes meant to cleanse you. They're not terrible or embarrassing or awful things. And quite often because we've held back our truth for so long, our physiology is screaming out to release. And so we do in these spaces. And so if you've been holding back your truth, your body wants to vomit it forward or shed it or release

And this is you accepting your truth finally by stepping into

Freddie Kimmel (42:11.534)
Yeah. I can relate. I can relate. I went and worked with a body mechanics guy yesterday. We just tried out a session and I was like, my shoulders are tight and my hips are really holding. And we just did some pelvic floor stuff, like 90 -90 on the wall. And I was squeezing a ball between my legs and I was having my hips, well, core engaged, just one inch

Shawn Wells (42:20.996)
Bye.

Freddie Kimmel (42:39.232)
and one inch down and just getting my hips moving. Dude, I stood up and he was like, do you feel how much space is in between your words? And he's like, look at your shoulder. My shoulders had dropped two inches. You know, in the past I would have said, I got to find a body worker or a Ralfer and I need him to beat up this tissue and allow. And it was simply having the breath expand into a different place, which I had disallowed immediate. was immediate. was five

you know, into the end of the session where we just have this massive shift and I was just again reminded of my body can do it. I just got to make the, I got to make the space for it. It was wild.

Shawn Wells (43:20.366)
You know, the yin and yang, the balance is so much of a part of life. Like, yes, we need to be in our masculine and go get it, right? But we also need to surrender. We also need self -care. We need to be in that feminine energy, too. And I feel like that's like lost, like in a capitalistic society that's all about achievement and you're rewarded for your drive and what you accomplish, that we're just

Freddie Kimmel (43:29.418)
Mm

Shawn Wells (43:50.468)
overmasculinized as a society. Now you can get into like the emasculation. It's like a whole other thing. But like just in terms of like we're judged on doing versus being. And I think it's important to get into your being and not just your doing and really like reflect, get into self, spend time. Like how many people are afraid to do inner work, to do meditation, to spend time with themselves?

Like quiet time, they'll just be, you know, at best reading a book, at worst watching TV while on their cell phone and doom scrolling. Because you're scared to look inwards. You don't even want to look in the mirror. But that's where like the inner work is going to be done. You know, if you want to be around the love of your life, if you want to have the best job of your life, you need to vibrate that and be

You can't like just have hopes and dreams, but be at this low vibration and not do the work. That's not going to get it. You need to be this high vibration soul that attracts those things

Freddie Kimmel (45:06.21)
Yeah. Yeah, it certainly is. You know, I think about this too. It's really lucky. Like I find myself very lucky that I was very sick, that I had cancer, that I had Lyme disease, that I was incapacitated for a long time. In those moments of stillness, I found, you know, the Luke stories, the Tim Ferrises, the Tony Robbins. In places of stillness, I was like, wow, this is really fascinating. But from a young age,

it just wasn't part of the conversation. Do you ever find yourself drawn to get this message to people earlier in life as opposed to, I mean, it's all divine, right? As opposed to, you know, they're 47 years old and things have gone to shit and now they're in the jungle and they're like, now they're really like, they need, the pressure cooker has reached like maximum effort. It's time to go no

Shawn Wells (46:02.638)
You can't convince anyone of anything. can't. You can't. They're ready when they're ready. They'll listen when they're ready to listen. You're not going to convince anyone of anything. You're not going to change their mind. It's going to be like they're at the right place, right time to accept that guidance. Now, like they've heard it a hundred times, but now it hits different because

They're in the place to accept that. I always think the most powerful person in the room, I've been in a lot of rooms with a lot of C suites. I've helped build about 80 companies with just consulting and being on boards and things like that. And the most powerful person in the room is the listener.

not the loudest talker. The listener is thinking, synthesizing, is processing, is open -minded. They're not just waiting to speak and speak over someone else. They're patient. They're not the fastest talker. They're not the loudest talker. You know, every time I watch Elon Musk, one thing that's really like fascinating to me, like regardless of where you stand with him,

This one interview and this guy tried to like gotcha

you know, talking about how we put stuff out on Twitter and again, wherever you stand with him is fine. But I love that like he can't be bought.

Shawn Wells (47:46.436)
Like this guy tried to gotcha him about like, your shareholders and when you tweet this and that, and literally in this interview, he took about 30 seconds, which in an interview is a lifetime. And he just sat there and thought on it because he knows it's a gotcha. He knows everyone's going to use these like little sound bites. So he's like, he just thinks, and he's sitting there in this interview, live television, 30 seconds.

and just calmly is like, you know, just kind of in his space. And then he starts talking about, you know, this idea from the Princess Bride and, you know, like he has this quote about, which is funny from the movie, but essentially like that he can't be bought. And like, it is what it is. I'm gonna say what I'm gonna say. He's in his truth, may not be your truth. He's in his truth, which I always admire.

I always admire someone that's like in their truth and cannot be bought. That's someone I find least fascinating to listen to. So I love that. I love that part of who he is. And, you know, even people like, know, Kanye West and people that like say crazy things and the dude lost like over a billion dollars.

by stepping away from his shoe brand while really getting fired. And when they asked him about it, he didn't apologize. He didn't say anything to try and get it back. Now, I'm not saying what he said is right. I'm actually Jewish by nature. My mom is Jewish. So I'm not saying the things he said couldn't be construed as offensive.

I do find it interesting that he can't be bought.

Shawn Wells (49:46.552)
Like he's in his truth, whatever that is. I do find those people very compelling for that reason. Because a lot of the people right now can be bought. A lot of the voices, the loud voices you're listening to can be bought.

Freddie Kimmel (49:55.085)
Mm -hmm.

Shawn Wells (50:04.932)
And you're hearing a lot of that in politics because they're all owned. Every politician, everyone in Congress is getting on average about $425 ,000 just from big pharma a year. So who do you think they're going to be voting for and backing? Your best needs?

Shawn Wells (50:31.438)
I always think it's interesting. Exactly.

Freddie Kimmel (50:31.598)
That's a good time for a 30 second pause.

Freddie Kimmel (50:39.084)
Yeah. Sean, I want to pivot. want to talk about... I want to talk a little bit about... I'm going to say this correctly. Parazanthine. Yes. Do you remember... It was probably two and a half years ago, I was at Paleo Facts and I got a hold of some samples of parazanthine, which is a really cool supplement. From my experience, it is not dissimilar from caffeine.

Shawn Wells (50:48.793)
Yep.

Freddie Kimmel (51:08.962)
but maybe more for me who identifies or have patterns of ADHD hyperwired between life left and right brain. It was, I could really have this, it was clear focus without being drawn off by every little like nugget of gold to the left and the right. And my brain could drop into pocket a little bit better. I also, the first couple of times I took it, I took it at night and I took it at seven, 7pm, 6pm. And I was able to still sleep as also someone

hard for me to wind down at the end of the day. What is paroxanthine?

Shawn Wells (51:43.524)
So paroxanthine is the metabolite of caffeine. And there's actually three metabolites of caffeine. There's theophylline, theobromine, and paroxanthine. So that's one of the three metabolites that can occur naturally when you consume caffeine. The problem is theophylline has a lot of side effects as one of the metabolites, but caffeine itself has a lot of side effects. And caffeine, for about 60 % of us that are slow metabolizers,

literally is taking days to clear out of our system, not hours, but days. It takes 10 and a half hours to clear half of it. So therefore to get it out of your system could be three days. And so for a lot of us, we're stuck with all the side effects of caffeine. The clean benefits are actually associated with paroxanthine. And this is where we see increased BDNF for neuroplasticity. see increased

glutathione and catalase, the master antioxidants and reduced oxidative stress as a result. We see increased serotonin, dopamine, and acetylcholine. We actually see about 50 % greater dopamine than caffeine. We see increased nitric oxide to the brain and working muscles. And we don't see that with caffeine via PDE9 inhibition, phosphodiesterase.

We see so many benefits, actually see decreased beta amyloid plaque. So all the ways I can think about the way the brain ages, paraxanthine is reversing. So it's not only nootropic acutely, it's also neuroprotective. And we're doing an E -gaining study right now and we're actually seeing a time effect that's positive with the continued use of paraxanthine, the brain's actually getting healthier and there's improvements in performance.

Freddie Kimmel (53:39.341)
Mm -hmm.

Shawn Wells (53:39.918)
Whereas caffeine, we see a declination with continued use through habituation and adaptation. So it's night and day difference. We did a study where we had athletes do a multitasking test. It's actually called like a Berg card sorting task test before and after a race, 10K race.

The caffeine group increased mental errors about 30%. The placebo group increased mental errors about 5%. The paroxanthine group decreased mental errors about 11%. They actually performed better after the 10K race.

then I mean, like think about that. Think and think about the Delta. You know, we're talking about these like they're similar ingredients and in terms of biochemistry, they are similar ingredients, but the net effect is very different where you have essentially the frazzle versus the flow.

You're literally getting people that like both are central nervous stimulants, but only paraxanthine is improving this alpha brainwave state. It's improving, you know, glutathione and catalase and neuroplasticity and blood flow and all these positive effects. Whereas caffeine's increasing mental errors. Like yes, you're stimulated, but you're also

Freddie Kimmel (55:11.064)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (55:14.54)
Yeah, I feel that. I really do. I'm this is such a tough one for me. I drink one cup of coffee a day. And I just love it. Like you said, in the beginning, you said the chocolate chip cookies or, you know, I have so many good memories that are associated with smelling it percolate on the oven and then getting that first frothy cup. And it's the

Shawn Wells (55:25.934)
Mm -hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (55:42.094)
plasticity has hardwired that I was like, dude, you need a cup of coffee. And it's just that one. I've, I've tried to get off of it before. I've gone six weeks, seven weeks, you know, tried some of the different supplements, different coffee substitutes, if you will, some with mushrooms, some of the lion's mane, different ingredients, and they've been okay. But I am feeling called knowing

It's always been difficult for me personally to wind down at the end of the day. It's really, you know, if you look at a sleep hygiene, it's like, I got to manage the light and the blue blockers and the content before I go to bed. Body temperature, everything. It's like, feel so, I'm like, what a baby. You know, I just feel, I was like, you're ridiculous. It's a little, it's like, I'm laughing at my own protocol to go to sleep. And sometimes it's a miss.

Shawn Wells (56:27.604)
Hahaha

Freddie Kimmel (56:36.888)
for whatever reason, whatever's going on in my body. But I would be interested to see, I have not tried a paroxanthine swap out to see if this would be a possible fix. Or maybe it's the cup of decaf in the morning

Shawn Wells (56:54.392)
So, so interestingly, we have looked in a number of studies now when we stack caffeine and paroxanthine, it really is like putting dirty water with clean water. We don't see good effects and it really reduces the impact positively we see from paroxanthine. So just want to throw that out there. So like I've seen so many people replace their coffee, their caffeine with paroxanthine and have just a night and day different experience.

including people that work out in the evening, that have a six, seven o 'clock trip to the gym and they use their pre -workout that has three or 400 milligrams of caffeine and they can't sleep at night, now have a great workout with paracetamol and get great sleep. We're actually seeing improved HRVs. Why improved? Because of increased blood flow to the brain and healing the brain and increased neuroplasticity and increased glutathione and catalase and on and on and on.

We're actually seeing people get better sleep and better recovery from being on this quote unquote stimulant.

Freddie Kimmel (58:01.11)
Yeah, you can stop yelling at me. I'm going to try it. Why are you yelling at me, No, I feel really called. I feel really called to try. And of course, there's, and how do you recommend people get paroxanthine? There's supplements. And I know I would love also, you formulate, you work with a lot of different companies. Where do people go? Are there brands associated? I know you have a new drink to the market, which is called Update.

Shawn Wells (58:04.398)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (58:29.76)
with paroxanthine inside

Shawn Wells (58:31.97)
Yeah, yeah, so that's this drink right here, Update, working with Mikey and David Hess, Hess Oil and Gas, billionaires that have done a number of amazing projects. They're deeply connected and invested and really believe wholeheartedly in this ingredient and really changing the health and the minds of humanity.

about 90 % of the planet is consuming caffeine on a daily basis, but nine out of 10 people that consume caffeine want to consume less. Think about that. Think about what we're doing. Like we literally are robots, we're addicted, it's hijacking our nervous system, our lives, our truth. If we are doing something we don't like that we're doing, but we keep doing it. That's profound. So you want to start stepping into your truth. If you want to start

believing yourself, start doing the things that you know you should be doing for yourself. And that would be, I believe, replacing caffeine with paroxanthine. I also worked with MuscleTech on Euphoric, which is spelled with an IQ at the end. It's a pre -workout that's great. There's a number of products. As long as it has infinity in it, that's the brand name E -N infinity.

Then you can find it on Amazon and a number of places. There's nootropic products, fat burners, hydroxy cuts now using it. But I really do love updates and yes, I am involved with that company because I'm very passionate about it. It's a clean product, doesn't have any artificial sweeteners. It's a zero calorie product that has other nootropics in it. And yeah, I'm just really proud of this

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:22.808)
Yeah, I like the taste. there a dose which is important for people to hit based on body

Shawn Wells (01:00:30.756)
Yeah, yeah. So we're about nine studies in, if you include pre -clinicals and clinicals, pre -clinicals are animal studies, et cetera. And so we have found that 200 milligrams is kind of the ideal dosing and that's where the majority of our claims are at.

300 milligrams is where some pre -workouts and energy drinks are euphoric and update, for example, are 300 milligrams. It's probably the most experiential and that's really the max of what we're allowing per day. So for a once a day product, we're allowing 300 milligrams. Twice a day it has to be 200, but all of our studies, like all the claims are met at 200 milligrams in terms of thermogenesis, because we have shown that increases energy expenditure.

and fat metabolism. We've shown that increases focus, that it actually improves blood pressure and heart rate, which is amazing for a stimulant. Again, neuroplasticity decreases mental errors, improves resistance to cognitive fatigue. And then we do have this e -gaming study coming out, which there's gonna be a lot of great outcomes from. I'm really excited about that one. It's

been two years in the making, a very robust and difficult study. So that one will be cool.

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:55.49)
I love it. What a great way. What a great subset of the population to look at for data. And so in an update, this lime drink that I'm drinking right now, which is really tasty, how many milligrams in one of these? Okay, great. So I'm good. I need one. Perfect.

Shawn Wells (01:02:06.884)
300 milligrams.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. mean, some people are drinking multiple a day, but you know, I would encourage you to just like find the place that you need, like a, you know, a little push. And I, and I think that's it. I don't, actually don't like the idea of like over consuming anything to the point that you were making before. don't, I don't want, even if something's healthy, I don't necessarily want it to be your crutch. I want you to still believe in the power of

I think that's really important, based on the discussion we were having. So for me, I consume just one of these a day and I'm great. I'm good to go. I don't notice the drop off. Most people feel a very clean experience and just have a very productive day.

Freddie Kimmel (01:02:58.734)
Yeah. Exciting. Exciting. I'm really, I'm excited to jump on in and I definitely will. I feel called. I'll hold myself accountable on this podcast to do at least 60 days without caffeine and just see. I've done it before. God, I'm scared.

Shawn Wells (01:03:17.764)
That would be amazing. think like you sharing a video of whatever I just did. I love those videos where I did 30 days with no caffeine or 30, know, whatever it is. Like I always love those videos. So I'm excited for

Freddie Kimmel (01:03:29.998)
Yeah. I have to try it out on myself when I'm talking about a supplement that helps pull out aluminum or mercury. I got to test the mercury and aluminum first, then I'm going to do the 60 days. that's normally what I do just to put the, again, put it on my body. Again, we all have so many different variables, but when something comes across the table that's recommended by you and Luke's story and other people in my circles, then I'm always very, very interested because I

I know like we talked about in the whole first part of the podcast is one of the most important things for you is your integrity. And yeah, I'm really stoked to see how I

Shawn Wells (01:04:09.442)
Yeah, so right now it's funny you bring that up. Chris Gathin, Ben Greenfield, Luke Storey, Josh Trent are all representing this and they all use it all the time. This was not like paid for, they actually paid to be a part of it. So that's really, really exciting stuff. So, I mean, everyone that tries it loves it. It just comes out like, I don't need to convince anyone. Like I always say when someone's like, I don't know or tell me more about the science. I'm like,

just try one and then we'll talk. And it's like, people are like, my God, that was amazing.

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:44.876)
Yeah. Yeah. And what is, what is this compared to like a cup of Starbucks? If we're looking at like a cost.

Shawn Wells (01:04:50.628)
I mean, some people try and do the comparison where milligram to milligram, it might have some similarity, but it's so much cleaner without the downsides that it really isn't that comparable. Like I don't really know how to compare it. Like once you experience it, you'll see like it is a completely different animal. You don't have the headaches, the anxiety, the brain fog, the sleep disruption, the agitation, the kind of edginess.

And none of that, there's none of that. So it's really a wholly different experience.

Freddie Kimmel (01:05:25.422)
Yeah. What about literally rubber meets the road cost? does a can, what's a per can cost? Cause my, my on the road, when I'm at an event, I'll be like, I'm going to get me a Starbucks, triple shot, coconut milk latte. It's, know, anywhere from seven to $9.

Shawn Wells (01:05:43.3)
Yeah, I think it's a, I want to say it's around $3. mean, paroxanthine is probably about 10 times the cost of caffeine. we're working on, you know, optimizing that, but that's where it's at right now. and then in update, like there's a number of other nootropics and it's just an expensive drink, but I think, you know, to your point, the cost of all these other things that we're buying, mean,

Freddie Kimmel (01:05:53.464)
Mm -hmm.

Shawn Wells (01:06:11.52)
A Coke could be three bucks, you know, like, let alone like you said, Starbucks or an alcoholic drink or whatever. But I definitely think, you know, you should give it a try and then see where you land and see how valuable it is to you. think, you know, anything that's that gives you more productivity that lifts your mood, that increases your metabolism, but makes you healthier in the process. I mean, that's winning.

Freddie Kimmel (01:06:38.766)
Yeah. We do these big community days over here. We've been doing Saturday mornings and we just finished a great big 10 person ceremonial wood -fired sauna. We got a cold plunge outside. People bring their families, their kids in the morning. make paleo muffins. So fun. So fun. I'll definitely, we'll do an update day. We'll just do an update, like a little lunch and learn. I'd love to intro this because everybody's always looking for the edge. And again, just back to the cost. think if you think

Shawn Wells (01:06:59.268)
Let's

Freddie Kimmel (01:07:08.526)
For me, if you told me, Freddie, we're going to change the quality of recovery and sleep, and I understand how much more value comes into my life as a result of a well -rested morning, I can't put a price on it. It's just so valuable to me. It's it's peak. If I can wake up and feel rested, it's everything. Opportunities abound.

Shawn Wells (01:07:33.444)
I love it, I love it brother. You know I'm moving down there. Yeah, I'm moving to Georgetown. This fall, I'm trying to figure out the exact date, but I will be there certainly before the holidays. Yep.

Freddie Kimmel (01:07:35.404)
Yeah. Are

What's your date?

Freddie Kimmel (01:07:50.018)
Great. You're in. Well, then you're coming to a ceremonial sauna morning. And I just, want to celebrate the work you do. I want to celebrate, you know, I love your book, The Energy Formula. If anybody hasn't read this and if you want to check it out, it's on Amazon. Really great reviews across the board.

Shawn Wells (01:08:09.124)
Hardcover, softcover, ebook, and audible, and we're coming out with the chorus by the end of the

Freddie Kimmel (01:08:15.768)
Beautiful, beautiful. just check it out. All my friends that are in our network in our inner community, respect and love you so much because it's the Beautifully Broken Podcast. And you know, we danced around it a little bit, but if I had to put you on, give you a microphone for a little minute and just said, what does it mean to you to be beautifully broken? Sean, what would you say?

Shawn Wells (01:08:37.816)
radical self -acceptance. think having like granting yourself grace.

Shawn Wells (01:08:47.256)
You have to like, it's the inner critic versus the inner champion. You know, similar to that quote from James Clear that we were talking about, the way you treat yourself is the blueprint for how everyone else will treat

And if you think about that inner child, would you talk to your own child like the way you're talking to your inner child?

Shawn Wells (01:09:14.552)
You need to change that language if you want to change your

Freddie Kimmel (01:09:20.888)
Beautiful. And then, now since you're up on the podium, you get a magic wand. You can tune in all the radio stations of the world into channel network, Sean Wells, for a minute. What would you say to the people of planet Earth at this time while we're all alive together?

Shawn Wells (01:09:40.59)
You know, there's a Lumineers quote that I actually just put up in Instagram as a note. It hits me, it's like so profound, like so profound. The opposite of love is indifference. Right now is a time to be a person of action. And again, live it, be it, don't talk about it. Just be it.

because the world doesn't need more indifference. No action is an action.

So what are you gonna do about it? If you're tired of the way the world is and it starts with you, stop complaining. Accept full responsibility for your life. Radical responsibility. It's not your fault why you're here, but it's your responsibility.

Freddie Kimmel (01:10:42.306)
I love it. Ladies and gentlemen, Sean Wells, thank you so much for being a guest on our show. We will put a link to update in the show notes and you can use code beautifullybroken. You get a little discount there. And I'm going to cheers

Cheers. Ladies and gentlemen, big love. We'll be back with more soon. we will definitely have Sean, we'll do an in -person when you're down in Austin at a studio.

Shawn Wells (01:11:09.902)
Sounds amazing, let's do it. All right, see you brother. Have a wonderful day, love you.

Freddie Kimmel (01:11:14.04)
Big love.