Spiritual Healing and Radical Ownership of Health: BeLovedNow's Journey to Self-Acceptance Part 1

WELCOME TO EPISODE 171

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Freddie Kimmel (00:01.022)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the beautifully broken podcast. We're here for a second time around. Sometimes when you start a podcast, it'll go for a few minutes and you got to reboot because there's an audio error or a video error. But I really think that's good luck. So we're ushering in our jump in the timeline with Reverend Kathy Wheelahan and Laura Young. How are you doing this morning?

BeLovedNow (00:27.975)
doing pretty darn well. Thanks, Freddie. How about yourself?

Freddie Kimmel (00:30.882)
Pretty darn well. Let me feel into that for a second, because we're gonna talk about feelings today. I'm feeling inspired. I am feeling full of gratitude. I am feeling embodied. And I am feeling joyful this morning. Yeah.

BeLovedNow (00:55.464)
So good.

Freddie Kimmel (00:56.35)
Yeah. And I, of course, I've got, I've got all my feelings and needs already pulled up on my computer. I have to ask you ladies, could you describe the work that you do in the world with your organization, your platform, Be Loved Now?

BeLovedNow (01:12.911)
Yeah, yeah. Well, Kath, you had started before, so you were on a train of thought. I don't... Yeah. I'm not going to repeat. I just... there's many different things that we do in the world. Yeah. So the reason why it's Be Loved Now is because in essence, whether we're running a 12-week meditation program or a year-long program or...

a breath and cold workshop, or spiritual counseling clients. We are reflecting back to the person or the people, the truth of who they are, is really what our intention is and how we show up. And we do it in a myriad of ways, but that's ultimately, that's why it's be love now, the love that you are at your essence.

Freddie Kimmel (02:10.774)
Yeah. The, and yeah, that is, that is beautiful. And it is what you do. And it's, I didn't want to tell the audience what you do from, from my experience. What you do is when I have a problem that I can't work through, that is rooted in some type of, I, let me say this, it's like a tension of knots in the emotional intelligence of my body. And I can't break through the wall. And I'm like, I gotta call Cathy and Laura cause I got to talk this through. And so we'll, we'll work through.

BeLovedNow (02:13.181)
Beautiful.

Freddie Kimmel (02:39.134)
very matter of fact, what are you feeling? And what are my core needs that are not being met? And let's come up with a dynamic phrase that helps you experience that and try it on. And then what's the once you do that a couple of times, you let it work into your body, how does the issue now feel? Is there any charge diminished? Is there a new way of thinking that you might be approaching this problem?

And what I found is it's just a very effective, simple, this is one tool that you use to be able to sort through people's bullshit. I have often had times in my life where there's just, there's so much going on. Whether it's I want to, I want to take all the things that I think I know, or I understand about the health of, of a person or my body.

And then there's this other context about what's going on there. They're interpersonal, their social connections and over here. So it all gets a little overwhelmed. And I found the work that you do with it. Really, you're like a spiritual Sherpa. You're, you're helping, which there's tons of physical overlap. I'm, I'm less and less convinced there's some sort of line between the physical and the emotional body that it's, it's been really effective for me.

BeLovedNow (03:51.731)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (03:54.646)
So I like to say spiritual sherpa. So that's how I describe you usually.

BeLovedNow (03:59.753)
I actually think I'm gonna try that one on for size.

Freddie Kimmel (04:03.262)
Yeah. Spiritual Sherpa. Albeit, we could argue that, yeah, we could argue that, well, like, well, the word Sherpa, did I culturally appropriate that word? Did I take that word for my own? I always say Sherpa is a word of admiration, like the strength and the impact coming from a relatively small human being that can shoulder eight times their body weight and walk up Everest. And it's always like a thing of, wow, that's incredible.

BeLovedNow (04:06.276)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (04:33.054)
And so sometimes the work that you do is, is similar in that way. Do you have thoughts on, on using the word Sherpa and making it your own as a, as white women?

BeLovedNow (04:42.191)
Well, the first thing that comes to me, Freddie, when you ask that question is I think about the fact that most people, many people have not been taught the skills of how to learn how to articulate how they feel and what they need. And so my experience in working with people, including people in my own family, that they regard their feelings and their emotions as somehow like this mountain behind the door, this

Right, and well really, and so to be able to access that, the skills needed to access that, is something that needs to be taught. You know, and that's part of the work that we do, is that people don't know how to do these things, to identify how they feel and what they need. They somehow think they should know it, but it's actually a learned skill.

Freddie Kimmel (05:33.165)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (05:34.515)
So in terms of the word Sherpa, it's something I've got to sit with. I hadn't really thought about it the way you're using it. So we'll get back to you on that. I would add, yes, and there's something about...

Freddie Kimmel (05:44.587)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (05:54.275)
We're not carrying other people's emotional loads. We're teaching. We're, so there, and I think Sherpa, from a very practical standpoint, a Sherpa is carrying your, right? And I would imagine there's a little nuance to it from where we stand in that we might help you to carry it for a bit, but ultimately it's your responsibility. Each of us have the responsibility to carry our own.

emotional, mental, all the things. So that's why we say reflect back to you. Right? And I think there is a quality. Now I haven't climbed Everest and I've never had an actual sherpa. You sort of have in Patagonia. I would imagine that in the exchange, energetic exchange of them carrying, right? That there is absolute reciprocity.

Freddie Kimmel (06:29.61)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (06:51.519)
even if you don't speak the language, that there is an exchange and a learning going on for you as the person who's being relieved of some physical burden and caring. So I think it is an interesting term and I also want to sit with it. Yeah, yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (07:08.018)
Yeah, it is interesting. I just, I say that it's, it's come up a couple of times. It was, um, as, as you know, and you're also certified Sherpa breath and cold instructors as well. I mean, we could probably, why don't you, there's other things you guys are quite dynamic women. I mean, Kathy, again, in our first two minutes of podcast one, which went south because the audio wasn't right. And I just wanted it to be, I want this to be, um,

BeLovedNow (07:20.647)
That's true.

Freddie Kimmel (07:36.946)
I wanted to sparkle like the work that you do sparkles in the world. So I wanted to do a reboot. Um, you've been on the podcast before, um, your, your daughter, Ali has been on the podcast before, you know, there's a little bit of, uh, some of the audience might know you from other episodes, episode one and two with your husband, Scott Wheelhand. And then, um, Ali talked about her journey through lime. We need to have Quinn on at some point, cause he has an incredible story. Um,

BeLovedNow (08:03.136)
Thank you.

Freddie Kimmel (08:05.302)
But what do you, if I asked you like, Kathy, what do you do? What, how have you, how have you cultivated the skillset in the world? What are you certified in? What might you tell me for just kind of having a couple of minute conversation?

BeLovedNow (08:19.451)
Well, I would say for right now, I show up really as an interfaith, interspiritual minister and running the co-founding and co-leading Be Love Now. I also run a healing sanctuary at my home in Reading. So we provide so many different things that it's hard to kind of pinpoint it. But again, it is, all of the things feed into this idea of...

companioning people in becoming the fullest expression of themselves. We're always in a state of becoming. Yeah. So how do we want to do it is the question. So there's different ways, different access points in. Like if you ask me, okay, so we do a lot of cold exposure with clients, spiritual counseling clients, with workshops, all the things. Sometimes with ourselves, with ourselves, we have a very dedicated practice.

Freddie Kimmel (09:01.635)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (09:13.676)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (09:18.963)
And that is one of the things that we feel turns the needle immediately for people. So when you have someone pretty direct shifts, so if you have someone struggling with addiction or serious PTSD or something that anxiety, we've been working with them. We can't get that. Like that can create that. That experience in cold water can create just enough of a shift that then we can come in with the other tools and be like, okay, now. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (09:25.815)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (09:30.162)
someone struggling with addiction, serious PTSD or something that ends by it. We've been working with them, we can't get that. That can create that experience in cold water, can create just enough of a shift that then we can come in with the other.

BeLovedNow (09:48.623)
Let's go. I agree with that. It creates that opening, right? Yeah. We find that of more than, and we do all sorts of things. We, we're, we're biohackers or what not. And we, we do all sorts of things for ourselves, but we offer, we also offer those things to people with the Amcoil and infrared sauna and the cold plunge. So we, we do feel, I would say, when we speak about it, very committed to being integrists.

Freddie Kimmel (09:53.934)
We do all sorts of things.

BeLovedNow (10:18.851)
It's like, I don't ever want to speak of something or tell someone to do something that I'm not doing. Right. It actually goes back to your question about the mountain and the conversation we had about caring. And I said something about it's about teaching and learning. It's also about we model. We don't ask people to do anything that we haven't done, whether it's teaching the feelings, the needs practice, the skills of compassionate communication.

the self-care practices, meditation, journaling, all of this. Yeah, like we do these things. We're not asking people to engage in processes and practices that we're sitting on some kind of pedestal and saying, you do this while we sit here. We're in it with our clients. We're in it with the people in our programs, in our workshops, all of that. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (10:59.15)
sitting on some kind of tabletop and you do this. We're going to exist in our climate. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (11:08.256)
Yeah.

Yeah. And I, I mean, I've listened, I've, I, because I know you personally, and because I've even, oh goodness, like I spent, you know, I, I had a hideout in writing Connecticut for a year and three quarters of the pandemic, you know, I got to be in, in the literal, in the family units of, to both of you to a degree and really see, yeah, I, yeah, I know the mess and, and at the same time, like,

BeLovedNow (11:25.095)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (11:30.115)
Right. Yeah. You know all the mess and you know a lot of the mess. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (11:38.678)
You know, I think again, it's great context for my belief in your work because I know you've not always had easy things to work through. You know, it's really, yeah, it's, it's really interesting. He's so that the, because I use you so much as a tool, literally there are bio hacking tools, which I go to, I have high powered PEMF, I have amp coil. I have flow, press. So I have saunas and cold, but I use be loved now. Often.

BeLovedNow (11:47.249)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (12:08.086)
daily identifying like, and what it's done for me is I think this is a great spot to, to really get into some of the conversation that I want to have is, is we can always make the shift.

BeLovedNow (12:09.041)
Ha ha!

Freddie Kimmel (12:22.89)
Right? We've got these great tools to make a shift. Let's just use ICE. But if we're just going to the pattern interrupt again and again and again, it's really there's not a lot of service there. It's like within that space, how are we getting in and really, man, just better knowing ourselves, better knowing my response, my tendencies to bypass the truth of the moment. And for me,

the expanded vocabulary around feelings and what my core needs are, that's where the true healing happens.

BeLovedNow (12:59.719)
Yeah, yeah. I would add to that, that ultimately we need each other. So here's the thing, you can do all those things. Freddie has all the tools, right? And knows how to use them. And knows how to use them very well. So you might even pay him to guide you and how to use all the tools. Ultimately...

You know, if you're on a, if you're in a family situation and you, you are engaged in conversation and you have a trigger or a reaction to something, there's probably 99% of a chance there's not an ice path next to you to hop into, to change your response. Yeah. In other words, we are with people all the time interacting and

What happens most of the time is that people take on other people's stuff in a variety of ways. Or project their stuff out onto other people. Yeah. So the Be Love Now tools are very practical, immediate things to do in the moment while anything's going down to be with ourselves with love.

Be with ourselves with love and also functions as a process to really disrupt the patterning around negative coping skills really is what it comes down to. It would like disrupt the patterning around belief systems that are limiting. That have to keep us loop in the loop that have generate a story. They keep us looking for evidence to support that untrue belief system. Right. So we're dealing in the facts.

Freddie Kimmel (14:41.773)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (14:46.476)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (14:49.243)
Like what is the fact that's created, the facts of the thought or the behavior that's creating the feeling that's coming from either needs that are being met or not met.

Freddie Kimmel (14:59.434)
Yeah, before we get too into the weeds, let's do a real life example. Just, just cause I want people to, I'm like, Oh, what are you, this seems like, like two steps away from me understanding what's going on. Um, I had went to, I'll use, uh, I won't do any names, but I'll use an experience I had like a month and a half ago in which there's a, another, uh, a wellness person, podcaster who had posted this, this meme of a family holding hands and they're holding up an umbrella.

And there's this like a rainbow hitting the umbrella and bouncing off. Like there's like pride. He's the father figure is saving his family from the rainbow. And I was so. Activated. I was so angry because. You know, and I, and I went at this, I went at the chat a little bit with this guy. I was like, man, what are you doing? I'm like, this is terrible. What are you saying here? You know, I'm not even going to go into what my perception of what he was saying.

But it really activated me because I, I saw that and I saw, I saw hate. I saw fear. I saw aggression. I felt how irresponsible, you know, as a person with thousands and thousands of people on your platform to post a meme. I was like, how can we assume that there's like some shared reality around your meaning of a picture, which could mean a thousand words that could mean anything, you know, maybe it wasn't.

the way you meant it to be, but I just got so pissed. And I mean, really pissed. I was like, my heart was going, I kinda dropped everything else I was doing in the day and I had called you both. And I had said, man, this is really coming up for me. So we had worked through like a feelings and needs statement based on my trauma response to this. Like my rage, I'm like, how can a healer have put out

a public opinion that is loaded with hate and loathing and fear of other. How can this be? So I had crafted a statement and it can't, yeah, Kathy. So can maybe, can you, can you explain to me like what, how you would meet this situation where somebody comes in and they're hot and fiery and activate? It's like, what do I do to process this?

BeLovedNow (17:18.379)
Right. Well, first of all, as you were speaking, we established that you were making a lot of assumptions. You're true. You're making a lot of assumptions. So we go to the facts. We go right to what happened. So you crafted a statement that looks something like, when I saw the meme. Right? That's it. You don't need anything else. We don't need all the extra embroidery, right? All the extra...

Freddie Kimmel (17:27.532)
It's a picture!

Freddie Kimmel (17:34.945)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (17:46.59)
Right, well, give me an example when someone adds additional storylines and assumptions to that, and you would stop them and say, oh, wait, you're in story. It's like,

BeLovedNow (17:56.079)
Well, you were just doing it. You were just doing it. You said, I can't believe what you, so it would be, maybe you said, I saw this meme and how could a healer, da da. How could a healer put out everything that has to do with hate and fear and da and you kept going. We'd say, okay, Freddie, we're gonna stop you there. Let's dial it back. What are the facts without your story? Yeah. The fact is you saw a meme and you had a reaction. Let's go to the reaction and dig underneath what the actual feelings are. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (18:12.747)
right.

Freddie Kimmel (18:19.871)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (18:25.746)
Right. So when I saw the meme, I was agitated. I was angry. I was exasperated.

BeLovedNow (18:30.327)
I've, you felt, you felt angry, exasperated. You felt. It's important. It's important to think that, yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (18:35.83)
Yeah, I felt I wasn't the thing. Right, great, great course correction there. Yeah, I felt angry, exasperated, indignant, outraged, because I have a need for safety, for protection, for.

Freddie Kimmel (19:00.551)
inclusion.

BeLovedNow (19:05.511)
I'd also just put out there for you to consider. Might feel right, might not.

responsibility or accountability, because there's an aspect to it that you seem to feel very passionate about what that thing could then do, you know, without taking responsibility for it. A picture, what's the saying? A picture is a thousand words or something like that, right? You know, so if we have a need for responsibility and accountability, that's kind of, you bring that.

Freddie Kimmel (19:33.258)
Pictures a thousand words, million words. Shit.

BeLovedNow (19:42.691)
You bring that in your world, right? You bring that in your podcast. You're wanting to, you show up the best you can, taking accountability and responsibility for yourself. So in that way, there's something about that might be a need that needs to be met. I don't know. And it sounds like, and this is actually when we get to the needs section.

Freddie Kimmel (20:01.154)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (20:06.875)
This is where we can actually work with people and help them understand that they're responsible for meeting their own needs or for asking other people to help them meet those needs. And in the way that you are of service in your podcast, just as one example, to a large degree, you are meeting your own need around responsibility and accountability. You're setting an example. Yeah. And you're welcome. You're inclusion and the inclusion, like you welcome everybody in.

Freddie Kimmel (20:25.358)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (20:30.174)
Yeah. I mean, listen, it's

BeLovedNow (20:36.976)
Yes.

Freddie Kimmel (20:37.558)
Yeah, I'll say that. I try not to get hyper political on the podcast, but man, I'm just such a strong believer and you should be able to pursue love in whatever form as long as it's safe to yourself and others. I wish all people joy in that aspect and don't pretend. I don't even know myself that well, so I am certainly not going to tell you what to do with your love life. Or a commentary on like, you know,

Again, there was like another situation. It's funny, there's a theme coming up. Are you getting this, Kathy? So there was another situation was so activated and a guy got on the phone and like, he wanted to color my understanding of like a relationship a friend had with a woman. And he was like, this is dirty, it's disrespectful, it's sinful. And I was like, what, bro.

What you're telling me right now is like, sounds sort of hot to me. I'm like, I don't know if we're going to leave all that sinful, but he wants, he was like, kind of, it was very, um, yeah, it was like leading the witness, you know, so I just, there's a, there's a theme here on, on people really trying to control and color your experience and they're trying to lock you into it. I think that in that particular instance, it was another person who's very famous. They've been on Oprah famous writer in which they wanted me to.

agree. They wanted me, they said, make an agreement that we'll not talk about this, but they wouldn't tell me what I was agreeing to first. And then we walked into story. And when we got into the story, it was a terrible secret that I didn't want to keep. And I just felt sick to my stomach. You know, I'd been walking and, uh, can we grow back? I didn't know what we're going to talk about. You asked me to agree to silence before we unveiled the topic. And it was,

BeLovedNow (22:10.647)
Agreements you have made. Right, can we? Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (22:27.23)
I know manipulative is a victim word. You know, I know that's not a feeling, but man, did I feel violated after the phone call.

BeLovedNow (22:29.711)
Right. Mm.

BeLovedNow (22:36.071)
Right, but when we worked through it and we got to your needs, what we understand is that one of your needs, which you're working on, is making and keeping agreements. And that's your job to make and keep them with other people. It's up to us to decide what feels good. Right. What's okay and what's not okay. We make and keep agreements all the time. And if they don't work, we say, hey, so we made that agreement.

didn't go so well. Let's do this. Would you be willing? To do another. What worked about it, what didn't, let's create another, right? That feels really good. And that's the part I think about the practice that people don't necessarily, we say in beloved now we go in to go out. So it's really important to clean up this interior space again and again and again.

Like we call it patrolling the boundaries, right? You set boundaries with your agreements and then you patrol the boundaries, right? And then we move it because if we're always in a state of becoming, the boundary that we made or the agreement that we made a month ago might not be applicable anymore. And people can surprise you too. And people are, we wanna hold out possibility for change on all levels.

Freddie Kimmel (23:28.829)
Mmm.

Freddie Kimmel (23:32.898)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (23:48.311)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (23:53.995)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (23:54.035)
We don't want to pigeonhole the other people. So the thing becomes, I can't do you, I can only do me. So I'm gonna do me and then I'm going to come to you and say, hey, this is me. These are my feelings and needs and what I'm working on. I'd like to move forward in a relationship with you. And I'm suggesting these agreements. How does that land with you? That's a really powerful way to show up.

in an intimate relationship and business partnership at work. You know, we use it in our family. We use it in our business. We use it at Amcoil. You know, we use it in our program, bringing it up, you know, the program. So when people actually do it like yourself, Freddie, on the regular, I would imagine I don't know. You can speak to this, but I would imagine you would find that

Freddie Kimmel (24:42.048)
Mm-hmm

BeLovedNow (24:51.563)
It is happening naturally. That there's a, it's like. The flexing them off. Yeah, it's like, you will see something, you will meet someone and it's like, you work through it, you know how you feel, you know what you need and you're not carrying all of that. Charge. Charge and yuck that lodges in the body and then becomes some form of, you know, dis-ease or imbalance. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (24:58.615)
Thanks for watching!

Freddie Kimmel (25:17.426)
Yeah, it's really hard for me as I learn more and more about health. It's hard for me not to imagine.

how much of the, the maladies, the disease states are not just, how, how is it not triggered by an emotional avoidance or an emotional trauma or, you know, look at the science around adverse childhood events. It's a shocking, it's shocking, you know, and not to say adversity is bad.

You know, not to say any of these things are bad. It's like, it's like the thing it's like, I wanted to comment before I was like. At the time it was upsetting and I was, I felt very hurt and I was very sad for a few days. I actually felt very unsafe. I was like, well, if he holds this opinion, the social influencer, how many other people in my container hold this opinion? And am I really it? Cause it did feel like I was like, Oh, I don't really feel safe talking to anybody anymore. Do you know, I had that moment where I was like,

Because I was like, you know, you go back and you look at the comments, you're like, well, this person liked that post. This person liked that post. So you're creating again, I'm in story land story. Not helpful, but I had this feeling of like, yeah, I was like, ah, I, well, I really, why I was actively seeking. And this is like the very immature point of me. And I was like, well, I'll call Kristen because I know Kristen will confirm my bias and she'll agree with me and she'll confirm that's wrong.

BeLovedNow (26:28.331)
Sorry. Come back.

Freddie Kimmel (26:48.926)
And then I also love Lauren. So I'll call Lauren and I'll confirm my story with Lauren that he is also wrong. He's a bad person. You know, so I, I've watched myself do this and I was like, dude, what are you? How old are you? 12 you build in a team. You built.

BeLovedNow (27:04.199)
But this happens all the time. It's, you know, call it gossip, call it whatever you want. Yeah. I'd like you to, you know, we, what we do is we set a timer for two minutes and you can vent. We call it conscious venting.

So you can, we can, I can say, Hey, would you be willing to listen to me? Then she'll set her time. I did it last night. Set my timer. Tim, you get two minutes, babe. Go. And then we go, okay, now what, what do you want to do? Right. You, we do need to express. And then from that.

In two minutes, after two minutes, everybody's pretty much repeating themselves. I mean, even if the story is long and has a lot of components to it, the essence of what we're getting to, we can get to in two to five minutes for sure. So I think, you know, I'm very interested in, in how to continue to help people get clear. And I think.

One of the things that's interesting, and I'm not, we're not therapists, but we have been in plenty of therapy. And we've had, I've had great therapists, I've had not so great therapists. And I think the difference in what we are doing in my experience, my lived experience, is that we are not pretending to be anything other than ourselves. So a therapist has certain like...

ethical boundaries, they're not really supposed to speak about themselves and it's understandable why and all of that. But what we're doing is we're saying we honor your feelings, we're just not going to spend an hour talking about them. Because they are, it's energy in motion. Not who you are, not who you are at your core. Nope. It's just moving through you. So passing through. Let's help you move it. Yeah. To get to

BeLovedNow (29:02.359)
what it is you want. And that's what the needs are very much in tune with the values of how you want to become and live your life. So what we're very good at to toot our own horns is getting to the essence quickly. Like we don't need to stay with people for months and months and months. Then you can tune back in like you say.

Freddie Kimmel (29:05.253)
Mmm.

BeLovedNow (29:29.291)
Oh, something will happen. You'll try to work through it yourself. You'll get stuck on one little thing and you'll be like, Hey, do you have 10 minutes for me and literally in 10 minutes, we pretty much work through it. Right. That's, um, that's not happening a lot today. There's a lot of talking, a lot of talking and a lot of repeating and looping that goes on and what we find in working with clients, especially because we do a lot of the spiritual counseling, uh, the two of us together is that.

we get to the heart of the matter really quickly. And there's something about the two of us when we're working with the client, it's almost like immediate community. It's not just this one-to-one dynamic. A lot less transference, a lot less projection, all the pitfalls of therapy that you have. Totally. Yeah. Totally.

Freddie Kimmel (30:08.198)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (30:15.19)
Well, you can do a good cop bad cop, too.

Freddie Kimmel (30:22.242)
Yeah, I was on a, I do a lot of consulting stuff too. And it was like, man, 99% of the times it was like, we don't need, you don't need business consulting, you need Be Love Now. Because there's so much talking and so much story. And it's funny, unless people know they're going in to do that work, when I'm like, can I pause you for a second, you're caught in story. And they'll be like, oh, you don't, this is important, you don't get it. And I'm like, no, I do.

I'm like a really good listener and I'm like, we've already covered this. Um, minute one, minute five, minute seven, minute nine. Now we're revisiting at minute 14. I like take pretty copious notes. So I make them like, well, we're just listen. I'm just like, I, because I value my time. I've already got it. I know it's important for point one, but yeah, I really find it's like, um, Dr. Nicole teaches this.

You know, they, they do, they go through, uh, it's, they do personality typing, whether that's man, genus manifest generator, projector, human design work. You know, they bring the energetics of the human being. They go through the core needs core values workshop, and then they get into the business stuff when they're working with integrative growth, they won't do, they actually won't meet with you unless you make that agreement to do that work first.

BeLovedNow (31:37.619)
That's great.

BeLovedNow (31:45.523)
Great. Yeah, that's effective for sure.

Freddie Kimmel (31:49.458)
Yeah, it's effective. So what, what goes, so let's say we have an incident. Let's say we're, let's say we're, we're working, we're doing the work. We have a thing. I call you with an issue. We go through feelings and needs. Then what?

BeLovedNow (32:01.475)
then we craft a plan based on what you want. So it would be specific to the thing. Like it depends if you're having an issue with your... Co-worker. Co-worker, lover, parent. It depends, you know, it depends.

Freddie Kimmel (32:15.158)
Let's do, let's do, I have a part, let's say I have a make believe partner named Samantha, who I'm having activations with. I'll say an activation, right? We have a thing in the kitchen. I get pissed off. I say something, we have an argument. I craft my feelings and needs. It's based around, let's say she is, let's say it's alcoholic tendencies. I've got an alcoholic alcoholism, my father, I'm not comfortable with her drinking. So like I have the fight, right?

I come to you to dismantle the situation so I can breathe and I can talk about it, then how do I work with Samantha?

BeLovedNow (32:52.923)
Well, we have to ask you some questions. Yes. What are your non-

Freddie Kimmel (32:56.842)
No, no, it needs to be the way for all alcoholic pattern through all relationships. It just needs to be a formula. I want a booklet. I want the workbook.

BeLovedNow (33:04.323)
You want a canned webinar on that, Freddie? Well, look, it would be very similar for each person. It's just that the, what do you say, content process? Yeah. So we think about, when I think about relationships with people and the conversations that happen, there's really, what the Feelings and Needs practice really does is it creates a process to move through the messy. So I think of like everything that's going on in life is content.

and the process to move through it is the feelings that needs practice. And that makes it really streamlined. So it gets you quickly to what do you want? So if a non-negotiable, we have to understand for you, do you want, is no alcohol the baseline in relationship? Because we have to discern what are you okay with and not okay with? We help you.

Freddie Kimmel (33:51.406)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (33:58.783)
to decide that for yourself based on what you're saying your needs are. I mean, there's a couple, there's a couple ways that the feelings and needs practice can be developed when we're working, when a, when a client is working with somebody else in their family or in their whatever relationship constellation they're in. You can ask if they'd be willing to listen to what they're hearing you say and to repeat it back to you. That's a first step mirroring. Mirroring.

Freddie Kimmel (34:16.951)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (34:26.391)
So if you can't even have the exchange and a person is not capable of mirroring back to you what they heard you say without more charge and more discord, things probably aren't going to move in a good direction. So that's like a number one. Are you willing to hear me? And would you be willing to repeat back to me what you heard me say? And they don't have to get it verbatim.

It's the feeling of it. And then if they're off or they've forgotten something, there's a process where we check in and say, so did I get, did I basically get it? And then you might say, there's one thing that you missed that's very important to me. And then you repeat it and then she'll say, oh, okay, so here I'm gonna repeat back to you the one thing that I missed. And then we can come to an agreement. Yeah, that feels complete, we say.

That feels good. That feels complete. Okay. Now what do we want to do with it? Would you be willing to enter into making a new agreement around drinking alcohol? And then you have to decide, like, is it just in your presence? And you both have to agree. So it's going to be, it actually becomes somewhat of a compromise or a total compromise because it's both parties have to be in agreement around

Freddie Kimmel (35:35.118)
in your presence. And you both have to agree.

BeLovedNow (35:49.811)
what it is, that thing that is juicy and fiery, right? The thing that is activating. You both have to come to the table on it, you know? And if there's not a willingness, that is information for you. It is definitely. Right? You get to then decide based on that information. And most people, I think, have a fear.

Freddie Kimmel (36:01.243)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (36:10.334)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (36:18.955)
of confrontation and finding out that might be the case. And so they don't approach it because then they actually have to make a decision based on the information that they receive. And they might be attached to the relationship of bit codependent. And they might be also addicted to the drama because

There's a little bit of a charge that happens. They're drinking again or they did the thing and then they get to talk about it and then they get to feel the dopamine and the whole thing. It could be all self-righteous or whatever. It could be so many things. So it comes down to what is it that you really want? What kind of a relationship do you want first with yourself? Right? Because it starts with honesty. What are the facts? How do you feel? What do you do? That's honesty. And then what are you willing to do?

Freddie Kimmel (36:44.881)
Hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (37:02.057)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (37:08.391)
to do about it because that's the piece where you become very empowered. Yeah. It doesn't mean there might not be sadness around the choices too. Or deep disappointment. But when we say yes to one thing, there's always something else that we're releasing. Yeah. So I think that's becoming. That is the process of becoming. And Kathy and I have a term WTF.

Freddie Kimmel (37:10.979)
Mmm.

Freddie Kimmel (37:20.398)
When we say yes to one thing, there's always something else that we're releasing. So, yeah. Choices.

BeLovedNow (37:37.603)
And it's what's this for? You know, it's transforming the perspective. What's this for? Actually, if you choose to believe, as I do, as we do, that everything in my life is happening in the service of my own awakening, then what's this for?

Freddie Kimmel (37:57.534)
Yeah. It certainly, it certainly does. It certainly does compliment a spiritual path to think about the waves that are coming from life as opportunities to have a different experience for growth, for better navigation. Um, else you feel like you're standing on the shore, just being pounded.

BeLovedNow (37:58.778)
and energy.

BeLovedNow (38:20.091)
Yeah. Life is happening to me, not for me. To me instead of for me.

Freddie Kimmel (38:25.108)
Yeah, it's interesting. It's, um.

BeLovedNow (38:27.867)
We talk about victim to creator. That's the process.

Freddie Kimmel (38:30.29)
Well, you know, you're lucky enough. Here's the thing. And in my experience, you know, you're lucky enough to, you're lucky enough to make it through a really traumatic event, like a bad car accident or cancer. And you're lucky. Many people on the other side of that, uh, your priorities shift dramatically. So you have this deep gratitude for living and life and conversations and being activated and shit. I'm glad.

BeLovedNow (38:49.681)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (38:59.998)
I'm how lucky that I had this day to be hit with another wave of emotion in which I get to grow and create from. But I remember growing up, the chatter that filled many conversations in the room, in public school, or maybe in being out in the world, people complained is almost like a default mode network. It's just like you complained about life happening to you. You complained about interest rates.

BeLovedNow (39:29.467)
Like it was a badge of honor somehow. Justified that I have a hard life.

Freddie Kimmel (39:29.578)
You know, like it's a badge of honor. So it becomes, it becomes right, right. It becomes just, you know, the boss's nagging, you know, I grew up in the eighties. So whatever it was, whatever, whatever the conversation was, but it was always, it was always a, a default mode network to complain. And until I had a different experience, I just didn't know any.

BeLovedNow (39:54.995)
Of course.

Freddie Kimmel (39:56.022)
But it's been really interesting going through the, you know, all the other beautiful, the beautiful experience of cancer and Lyme disease and mold and surgeries have been what a way to strip the, to strip the hard drive and wipe it down and have another take because my experience was so dramatic, right? And not to say I had to come through that way. I could have, I could have very well been like, you know, still waiting for life to

get back to where it was or my body back to where it was. But it just hasn't, it hasn't rolled that way. So I always find it's fascinating. Um, and then of course, me being this way, I've, I've found, I like it. And then I've, I've self-selected other people who are around me to also view the world in a similar fashion, or we don't spend a lot of time together.

You know, I've organically cultivated a new community or a new universe, gravitational fields, and that's just, that's my life now. Most people I interact with, or even the landlord that I live at the place where I live because the guy who built this property is just a great guy. You know? And so it's, it's fascinating how you, you almost start to engineer your own world, um, unknowingly.

I wouldn't tell you I did this, but there must be some deep inner knowing in the body that says, man, this is a better way to do this life thing, taking radical ownership of your feelings and your responses.

BeLovedNow (41:31.127)
And I think that there's no, I don't think there's much of an argument that, for many of us who've had that dark night of the soul, it becomes a very clear demarcation point to be able to choose differently. There's a lot of people who may not have had that experience yet in their lives and yet, if there's a curiosity and a willingness to be open, even just a little bit.

even just a little bit, the possibility to grow, the possibility to learn and to change course, if you will. You see it, for example, in the rooms of 12-step. Some people really want to learn and grow and some people don't. And it doesn't really necessarily have to do with what they call the bottom, what kind of bottom you've hit. It might, but it doesn't have to.

Freddie Kimmel (42:27.571)
Yeah.

Yeah, it might. Isn't it interesting just to speak to the 12 step program? And we've touched on alcohol a little bit. I am more or less sober these days. I'm like never, I'm like never. I can't remember the last time I had a drink, but it's super rare. And definitely have a unique experience in my family's history.

BeLovedNow (42:30.999)
Yeah, yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (42:55.75)
I had said recently that it was like, wow, I look at my brother and sister and we pretty much broken the generational chains of alcoholism. It's like organically, like we all just did it. I mean, you know, I can say once in a while my brother and sister will have a drink, but for my understanding and experience, it's just not really a thing. We don't, that's not how we, it's not the, what is it? It's not the set dressing to family vacations and.

BeLovedNow (43:03.183)
Congratulations. Yeah.

Um.

Freddie Kimmel (43:23.542)
birthday parties and stuff. So it's so interesting that that's happened. Um, going into the, the experience of the 12 step program and story, is there anything you would do in a 12 step meeting? If you could go in with a magic wand and say, we'd love to change this about the story because, because we, because that sometimes in those programs we do, uh, we do, we are

What is it? Is it incentivized to go into your story or to live in story or identify or attach with my Dark Knight of the Soul?

BeLovedNow (43:50.621)
Oh, that's.

BeLovedNow (43:55.899)
Yep. What would I do differently? One of the, well, one of the beautiful things about 12 step, we're in a lot of meetings is that they limit the shares to three minutes. So that cuts down on some of the losing.

Freddie Kimmel (44:00.15)
Yeah, what would you do differently, Laura?

BeLovedNow (44:13.583)
I'd bring this in. Yeah. I'd bring this in because I think feelings and needs are a way to access more of a growth mindset. There's an I mean, look, I'm I've only done Alan on.

in the ACOA, so I haven't been in the AA just to see your anniversaries and stuff. But yeah, so I don't, she that's, this is her world, but my experience, cause we do have a lot of clients that come from that, um, is that

it reinforces telling that story again and again and again. It's again, a badge of honor. There's a little bit of this kind of like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's my battle experience, you know? And what, I'm not saying this about all people who are in that, absolutely not. But there's a shift now that we, I've really become so familiar with these 12 guiding spiritual principles, which, you know, they're not AA's,

Freddie Kimmel (44:57.306)
Mmm.

BeLovedNow (45:17.161)
They're universal. And we've had many conversations about this, that the first six, you know, honesty, hope, surrender, courage, willingness, acceptance, it's a fertile inner workings ground. It's like you're kind of composting your own, right? You're in, you're going in. And then from humility onto joy.

It's about, it's really about taking this work and then becoming in my humble opinion of more service to the world. It's expansion. And that the service from the AA perspective seems to be very much insular. It's being of service to AA, which is wonderful. And what an amazing organization that it's.

Freddie Kimmel (45:48.873)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (46:01.355)
all over the world, you know, and it's free, free and all the things. There's so many fascinating things about it. Still amazing and helping so many people. And I would just simply say, I think there's an empowerment piece. Of you're talking about your own inner knowing, and there is an aspect. You talked about curiosity. We're talking about this.

Freddie Kimmel (46:04.722)
Yeah, still going.

BeLovedNow (46:26.951)
growth mindset of what's this for. And I think that there could be a bigger or wider opening into that arena that's not just about giving over to a higher power, which is very much, I mean, I believe in higher power. Absolutely. I believe also that the higher power is within us. Right. They say in 12th step, I think you're taught initially,

And not to not to dissect everything, but you're taught initially that because you've made such bad decisions, that's why you're there. Which is important in the beginning. It actually, it almost seems as if the locus, the quote unquote locus of controls move so it's something outside of you because you need to follow the direction of the group, right, of the of the literature. In order to stay sober. Um, at some point.

Freddie Kimmel (46:57.195)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (47:02.166)
Mmm.

Freddie Kimmel (47:05.333)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (47:13.27)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (47:18.932)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (47:22.415)
And in the reading and actually in the big book, they talk about that we realize that the great reality is deep down within us. Right, at one point that locus of control changes, the perception of it changes. I'm not sure everybody actually makes that leap.

Freddie Kimmel (47:32.22)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (47:37.888)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (47:41.334)
Hmm. Yeah. It almost needs like, yeah, you could almost envision like there being additional phases when somebody's ready for it to have that conversation or that invitation.

BeLovedNow (47:43.565)
and

BeLovedNow (47:52.966)
Right. Like 2.0. Well, that's, I mean, that's, I mean, and that is because the way the program works, you know, you have their sponsorship. So that would be the job of the sponsor, the sponsor relationship to have those kinds of conversations. And yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (47:54.431)
Yeah, like a

Freddie Kimmel (48:01.243)
Right.

Freddie Kimmel (48:04.606)
right, which a lot of times they will like, you know, I know, my, my dad is 20 some plus years. And he will often he of course, he does this individual fingerprint on that human being when he's supporting, like he's adding, you know, he's adding like that color and texture that a human being would bring. Yeah, really interesting.

BeLovedNow (48:10.502)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (48:17.701)
Totally.

BeLovedNow (48:23.095)
Right. Yeah. It's like any organization. Is it evolving? Is it becoming and is it growing with it? You know, and I think every organization has that opportunity to take a look at it. Like, are we, are we, do we have a growth mindset?

Freddie Kimmel (48:28.878)
Right. I mean, yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (48:38.625)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating. It's fascinating. Like the, yeah, the world that we live in today and how we're, you know, these different institutions are stepping into different roles of service and how some have sustained over time and how some fall away. And it's, yeah, it's wild. It's wild to think about. You know, I'd love to go a little deeper into, Laura, you said you you're like, my dark night of the soul. Is that do you want what?

What did, can I ask you what was your, you can give me like a 10 second explainer, your Dark Knight of the Soul, or you can give me like a two minute if you want. I'd love to, I'd love to, we've never really talked about your Dark Knight of the Soul and you also don't feel obligated to share.

BeLovedNow (49:21.265)
Okay. Oh.

I am an open book, Freddie. It's a good one. It is a good story. I'm just thinking where should it, so I was an active alcoholic from the time I was 15 until I was 42 years old. Pretty serious. A lot of consequences, my bottom kept increasing, I've been to a number of rehabs and outpatient programs, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Freddie Kimmel (49:26.081)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (49:38.219)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (49:52.063)
I had started going to a 12 step program about three years before I actually did get sober. And I could put string together a couple, maybe a couple days or maybe two weeks at a time, but I never could stay sober. And I always felt like it was my failure. I didn't really get the fact that it was a wee program that I needed community. Even then, the dark night of the soul came when I decided that I was a failure and I couldn't do this anymore.

Freddie Kimmel (50:13.186)
Mm.

BeLovedNow (50:21.851)
you know, without going into all the details of it, I went to a place that was fairly isolated. I mean, it was in a town, but like, I called my therapist, I said, thank you, I don't need you anymore, threw the phone out in the backyard. I drank all the booze that was in the house and I prepared to take my own life.

In the process of doing that, my husband at the time, I think at that point maybe phones had like locator GPS. I don't know how he found me, but he found me. He came rushing in the front door to stop me from what I was doing. And I begged him to let me finish because I couldn't live with the drinking and I couldn't live without it.

Freddie Kimmel (50:54.37)
Hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (51:04.174)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (51:11.959)
I was so sure. And I was in that impossible situation. Now.

Freddie Kimmel (51:13.809)
Mm.

BeLovedNow (51:19.907)
So what happened is he took me to the emergency room at the local hospital and they put me in the drunk tank of the emergency room in this glove the tank in the glassed-in observation room across from the nurse's station and there was a clock on the wall and I came to at some point and I came to and I was wearing a hospital gown I had no clothes no shoes no money no keys no ID and the first thing on my mind when I woke up was how the f am I going to get out of here and get a drink

something happened in that moment where it was as if what I said, because I said it out loud, it was as if those words were like thrown up into the air in front of me and I could see them. And something about that moment, I suddenly grasped like the first step of the 12 step program with it. I was powerless over alcohol and my life was unmanageable. I could see the insanity of what I was doing.

BeLovedNow (52:21.83)
and something flipped in me.

Freddie Kimmel (52:25.171)
Mm.

BeLovedNow (52:26.647)
I think it was I grasped my own inner knowing.

Freddie Kimmel (52:31.348)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (52:31.399)
that had been, I had moments of clarity over the years. Like, you know, you pull that bottle of vodka out of the freezer and take a head off of it before you go to work in the morning, like your life is gonna change forever. Oh yeah, it's probably not a problem, you know. I always thought I could manage the consequences. I got to a place where I was completely stripped down.

Freddie Kimmel (52:49.07)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (52:56.357)
Hmm. Yeah.

BeLovedNow (52:56.872)
And the rest of it is the journey to get here right now.

Freddie Kimmel (53:00.126)
Yeah, did you two know each other in that time?

BeLovedNow (53:05.051)
I always say what I wouldn't do to be like a fly on the wall at the bar or wherever, you know. Oh my God. That was 2005, just for some context. Kathy and I, we met in 2007. You were beginning of teacher training. The one thing I just wanted to add, it's your story. But it's almost like the interview question here, you know, for me is this moment of clarity

Freddie Kimmel (53:07.022)
Ah! Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Freddie Kimmel (53:18.658)
Hmm

BeLovedNow (53:34.019)
You know, we have clients that are inactive addiction. And so for me, I'm always in that process of like finding the boundary and also the compassion. And what I have come to understand is it is a disease. And then you- Chronic, progressive, incurable. And that-

actually fatal actually as they say you are not the disease and that is just such an important distinction that is part of how this connects to be loved now because we say the truth of who you are and so in the moment it's like you up until that point we're saying there's something really like i am

Freddie Kimmel (54:00.7)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (54:14.823)
bad to the core. You know what I mean? There's something so wrong with me. There's no way out of this. That's really the dark night of the soul, right? And there's a little bit of an opening in that moment where you are able, it seems to me to see, ah, it's a disease and I'm not the disease. There is a possibility. There's a way out. And so that's what I find really remarkable. And it feels like that's the part that ties to today because

Freddie Kimmel (54:36.427)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (54:44.195)
This is what Be Love Now is. You're not your story. You're not your- Mic drop. I am not how I feel. That is not who I am. Terrible things might have happened to you. And terrible things have happened to all of us. Real tragedy has happened. Real trauma and tragedy has happened in my life, in other people's lives, in most people's lives. And we don't diminish it.

Freddie Kimmel (54:51.703)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (55:05.182)
Yeah. Well, how many people, I always think about this, how many people are, uh, sober or not drinkers, but their families are victim to the other side of a drunk driver. I'm like,

BeLovedNow (55:19.657)
They say that for every alcoholic impacts at least six people, the lives of six people. There's like no one.

Freddie Kimmel (55:24.338)
Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm just, it's stupid lucky. Like that I always think of, do you ever look back on your life and there's like events where you could imagine you're like, oh, uh, that could have went my life could be, I could be, I could be easily been, I could have spent my life in prison multiple times that there are in the timeline. I'm like, all I needed to do is have this not go this way or this police officer not let me off or this, you know, there's a shit ton

BeLovedNow (55:37.683)
Oh, I could, I could. So wrong, yes. Yeah, so wrong.

Totally. Oh.

Freddie Kimmel (55:53.67)
all of them colored through really bad decisions because I was not in my right state of mind. I didn't know how to manage myself, A, as a kid, as a teen, as a young adult, but you add alcohol into the mix where I'd never learned how to manage that altered state and it's just like recipe for disaster. You're just lucky. I'm like, I've most like, man, it's just a total lucky shit show to make it to like your 40s or 50s.

BeLovedNow (55:58.267)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

BeLovedNow (56:20.435)
I feel incredibly lucky and grateful that I got sober. And I'm also really, one of the things that I learned along the way is I'm also very, I've come into a profound sense of gratitude for everything that's happened in my life. Because without the experiences that I've had, I would not be where I am now.

Freddie Kimmel (56:23.639)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (56:34.267)
Mmm.

Freddie Kimmel (56:40.459)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (56:41.867)
and continuing to become more and more of the love that I truly am in my being. And I think for the listeners, it's like we say everybody's recovering from something. Absolutely. I mean, the human experience is challenging. Like you said, trauma and tragedy. And it's also incredibly amazing and beautiful and joyful.

Freddie Kimmel (56:49.442)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (57:10.563)
What we do is create a container in which to hold it all. All of it. Cause it's not about only choosing the people who believe what we believe in surrounding ourselves. Yeah, we get to make really good choices, Freddie. You're making super great choices in your life. And we also want to continue to be able to connect with anyone. For you with the dude with the rainbow umbrella, you went and connected.

Freddie Kimmel (57:33.175)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (57:38.499)
you know, it might not be that you're going to join forces again in some way, but who the heck knows, you were able to craft a response that was true to yourself and there was something in it that I'm sure was an opportunity whether that person is saying, hey, thanks for the whatever, but there's, we want to show up in the world again and again from our place of love and values. And we're not always going to be surrounded by the people who

who agree with us or think the way we do, right? Even in our own families, yeah? So the tools, the tools to be able to connect first with ourselves around what's uncomfortable. Because discomfort, if we could lean into it and remember, oh wait, this is just a part of life. We will feel uncomfortable on the regular. It's our job.

Freddie Kimmel (58:10.653)
Right.

Freddie Kimmel (58:14.198)
No, that's, yeah. Yeah, there's this.

BeLovedNow (58:38.471)
to transmute the discomfort and realize what it is for in our own growth and becoming. So I don't care whether you're an alcoholic of however many years or sober alcoholic of many years, or you're living in Kentucky and just got wiped out by a flood or you've had a wildfire and lost your home, or you had terrible sexual abuse as a child.

um cancer chronic illness chronic illness lime i care and also in some ways it actually doesn't so much matter it only matters in stating the truth of it for yourself in order to work through the feelings to get to the actual gold yeah and so i think yeah society because of the complaining and the badge of honor and ancestry and all the things that we bring forward

Freddie Kimmel (59:28.383)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (59:36.859)
has really taught us that thing of like, well, let me tell you about the thing and let me tell you again about the thing and let me tell you why that thing has caused me to have all the problems and all the stuff. And now we realize actually that we have the power to transform the stuff in the moment. That is one of the most empowering things that has come to me in the last four years because-

whether it's in my marriage or with my children or whatever, I'm in the moment saying, oh, this is an opportunity. Right, like, wait a minute, right here, right now? This is the work. And this is where I can shift. This is where I can choose to respond differently. And the ice can help and the meditation helps.

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:14.414)
Hmm. Yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:00:28.407)
and the journaling helps, all the things help. There's all these different access points in. But we need each other. We cannot be vulnerable alone. That's how we met, with conversation. Like I can be as honest as I want to be, as possible for me in my journal. But if I am unwilling to share where I'm really at with the people I trust and love in my community.

Freddie Kimmel (01:00:41.048)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:00:56.155)
then I'm going to stay in that little space of, and I'm pretty much stuck in that, right? It's not going to shift. I'm not going to shift that on my own. Probably not. My experience is never. But when I share it, people are willing to receive it, are willing to ask me questions about it and how to help support me in.

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:01.574)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:08.574)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:01:21.555)
greater growth and expansion. And it gives them permission to do the same. So we create a community that is actually inspired by the practice. The practice of vulnerability, the practice of this kind of vulnerability creating connection through trust. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:30.753)
It's.

Freddie Kimmel (01:01:38.326)
Yeah. It's really interesting. Now, you know, the world we live in today, it's like we have to go out and build and seek these communities because the design of, I mean, the world's just so big. Do you know society? Well, society, yeah, society has just changed so much. The community, you know, cause you would have lived in a, in a, in a tribe, four or 500 people, a thousand people, you know, there were probably different checks and balances existing within this ecosystem that have left us because

BeLovedNow (01:01:49.859)
or transform our families.

Freddie Kimmel (01:02:08.234)
You know, I mean, I could go days in this box working from a screen and the zoom and, and inter relating digitally, which is very, very different from being. I tell you one of the coolest things we do at my, my neighbor's house, we all go and we built a, um, the guy who built this property, Michael Lubitz master builder, built Deepak Chopra's first home. You know, he's just such a cool architect. He's we're converting, uh, the outdoor grain silo.

into a one bedroom apartment right now with a spiral staircase. And it's got like this, the grain silo is like a crystal roof. It's so cool. Um, I say all that to say in his building, they've converted like a horse barn into a biohacking center. And we have a 12 person ceremonial grade sauna and the conversations and the things in and out of the, to the heat, to the ice, and we just show up and sweat and we cool, sweat and chill.

And the conversations that happen in the sauna, you find yourself often like riding that edge of I'm gonna pass out in the heat because the conversations are like so intense and heartfelt in this bubble of community. Like people are on this earth element of being like in pain and what people say it's so dynamic and so good, you don't wanna leave the heat, but you're like, I'm gonna pass out. And then so you transition into the cold and that takes you to another level.

So I watched this happen. I'm like, wow, it's almost like we're on the Washington spin cycle of healing right here, of all this stuff coming out of the body. And it's so cool. It's so cool. I was like, man, this is nothing short of medicine. It's not. You know, you see people, you see the, lately I've been saying, I think one of my embodied missions is to remove the marketing from the wellness.

BeLovedNow (01:03:35.831)
Hahaha! Yeah!

That's so cool.

BeLovedNow (01:03:47.445)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:03:59.018)
Like where does it really meet the human tissue and the human heart? And I've witnessed it enough to see, as you know, Kathy, put a person that's sick with chronic Lyme disease alone in a room for four months with an amp coil. Maybe you get good results. Maybe you don't. Put 12 people with chronic Lyme debilitated, can't walk, can't drive themselves in a barn with 12 other people for three to four months.

and you get magic at the end of the cycle because there's that element of, wow, they're in the room where it's happening and through community, they're witnessing the subtle nuance of change in the other people. So it's like, don't be angry that your little experiment didn't work in a double-blind placebo-controlled study. For me, double-blind placebo-controlled, it's like, well, did you want to remove the humanity from the healing element? Or did you want, or do you want people to get better?

BeLovedNow (01:04:55.189)
On the law.

Freddie Kimmel (01:04:58.126)
Do you want to realize someday that treatment room and the segmented nature of medicine is not working or do you want people to get better? Like, look, it's the system you built. It seems to not be functioning very well. So let's look at a different model. That's my TED talk. Ah.

BeLovedNow (01:05:15.079)
No, I love it. That's what we have come to is that the exponential growth and expansion comes by sharing in community. What she said? You got to clean this up.

And it's a continuous process. Yeah. Right. We don't just like, oh, I did that work. You hear people in stewardship communities. Oh, yeah. I know. I've already done that. It's like, oh, so how's that going for you? Because we feel like we're just in a constant state of becoming. Oh, that thing came up again, huh? Yes. Guess it needs to be cleared, that level of it. And the beautiful thing about that is that in community, when you say that thing came up again, that's it.

Freddie Kimmel (01:05:51.47)
Mm.

BeLovedNow (01:06:00.263)
There's already a conversation that's been built around it. You can continue to grow the conversation, grow the dialogue around it. People have context, they understand what it means. It's not like you're starting again with a new therapist where you have to give them the backstory. You have a, we have a common language. We can get to the truth of it pretty quickly. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:06:10.892)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:06:16.229)
Ugh.

Freddie Kimmel (01:06:20.894)
Yeah. It's fascinating. The, the, um, yeah, something I'm like, it's like, I'm at the ceiling of a level of bursting through like another way of understanding healing wellness, my role in the world. And I'm not, it's like, it's, I'm, it's funny. I'm at an uncomfortable little zone that I've been saying. I was like, man, I just feel

It's not that it's, it's not that I'm bored with it all. I was like, okay, besides pulse, magnetics and light and oxygenating the tissue and donating electrons.

Freddie Kimmel (01:06:54.958)
You're not going to come up with some dramatic wild device to retrofit your genes and heal the body. Because we're trying to always remove this emotional component. It's like, yeah, we can add energy into the system. But you have this super computer, this human super interface taking in information, all these data points every minute upon every second. And then 90% of it is running on a program. So you're telling me the device is going to heal. I'm like, no.

Of course it doesn't give you the same response across all platforms. I would hope it wouldn't. You're a unique component of emotional programming that's running under your level of awareness. So unless you're going to get in and do the deep awareness work, how long do you want to, how long do you want to tread water for, when are you ready to heal?

BeLovedNow (01:07:30.432)
Mm.

BeLovedNow (01:07:43.399)
Right, yeah, yeah. Right. And when would now be the right time? Yeah, when would now be as our friend Erin says. And I think that there is something we have to include in the conversation, some form of silence, some form of meditation in which we are experiencing.

the part of ourselves that is aware of our own awareness, that is able to notice and be the witness of the consciousness. We have to be doing something like that because otherwise this mechanism is gonna continue to override. Because people are so caught up in

And we all have been there at some point in our lives, if not still there, that what I see in the mirror and what I hear myself saying and how I'm feeling is all that I am when that is not at all. You did you. Yeah. You did your death episode and you touched on that, right? The part it's like the consciousness part, the part that's aware.

Freddie Kimmel (01:08:46.274)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:08:59.139)
I'm in a book club with my dad and we're reading Pema Chojin's new book, you know, which is How We Live Is How We Die. And she talks about the bardo and there's that part of us, what's the part of us that doesn't die with the body? So meditation, these practices give us a space and a container to grow into that experience so that it then sort of just spills over into our life.

Freddie Kimmel (01:09:13.71)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:09:27.927)
So then we can be more present to the moments in the sauna or the cold plunge or the medicine and community that we're experiencing, whether it's plant medicine or just the medicine of vulnerability that we can then be, ah, here we are. And we are present to it. And then the question, what's this for? And can I love even this? Right. Because then there's not an ego attachment.

Freddie Kimmel (01:09:50.815)
Mm. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:09:56.522)
Yeah. It's, um, yeah, it's, it's wild to think about my thought process wants to go in a million different directions right here, but you know, we do, I do, I get very caught up in, you know, wanting to know the whys and the understanding and what's, what are we here for and what's my purpose. And, and that can spin me off. Historically, there'd been times in my life where I was like very much an existential crisis. I actually had one of my existential crisis is

living at your house. I was not sleeping for three months and I was just like, I was terrified of existing and not existing. You know, there was a real when I was doing music theater, I remember one time when the curtain would come down at the end and you'd be writing about and the lights were out and it'd be blackness before I would be streaming tears to walk out and bow because I was like in darkness and I was like, Oh my I was like, it was like, and it's 10 seconds.

BeLovedNow (01:10:53.683)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Freddie Kimmel (01:10:54.114)
But the 10 seconds of darkness, I was like, the hearing people cheer and noise around me in darkness and knowing that at some time I'm not gonna be in this body form, I was in the deepest, darkest sadness that I can still imagine, I can still feel it there. I'm like, oh, you've put a cap on that. You're periodically ready to look at that. But what is that? At the end of the day,

It's going to, we're going to roll through the hundred years. Or we're, you know, you're not stopping that yet. We're not stuck, you know? So it's, it's you. Yeah, there is, there is, what I want to say is there is some point when you need to just say, I think there's value to say, I'm on the ride. Right. I have very little control with how it's going or where it's going. The only thing I really have is I can choose, I can choose to widen the gap.

between stimulus and response, I can color my response to some degree, the things that are coming at me, whether that we want to say the rolling waves of life. Other than that, it's really like, it's like the ego, it's almost like I look at the ego is winding down my clock of life. And it's like robbing me of time. Because within wanting to understand the present of presence, I'm wasting my life.

BeLovedNow (01:12:13.423)
Mm.

BeLovedNow (01:12:20.284)
You know, one of our yoga teachers used to say to us, life is a gift, it's not a problem. So take your body out for a test drive and enjoy the ride.

Freddie Kimmel (01:12:32.466)
Yeah. Enjoy the ride. Enjoy the ride. And the veil is that, you know, it's, we, we talk from this place of, I'm sure people will hear this podcast and I've had people say, wow, you've really done, you're doing the work. You sound like you've done a while out of work. I'm like, I don't, I feel awful at times and totally out of control and, and be like, oh man, I'm like, you know, I could, I'll just name, I'm like, oh, I'm 45. I have no family. I have

I'm not married, I don't have kids. I'm like, so there's an element of that where I'm like, there were times where I feel like a deep failure, and I'll sit with that in the morning, or you go out to dinner and you're like, oh, I don't have a family to go out with. Well, I mean, not a nuclear family, not an immediate family, I'm alone. And you can feel...

What this is my story, like my story comes up as look how you've fucked up life. Like how did you let, how did you get here? So I have moments of being deeply out of control and. And that's, that's my work to like, to not let that get that idea or that thought process loop into, you know, running me or, or

BeLovedNow (01:13:50.747)
running you. Right. Just see the...

Freddie Kimmel (01:13:53.734)
or whatever the dark thoughts on the other side of that wall. My point is the veil is fucking thin. It's thin for me. Like it's thin for me to be like, oh, there's a lot of good. It can get real dark real quick. Real quick.

BeLovedNow (01:14:00.263)
Bill.

BeLovedNow (01:14:13.527)
And how often do we choose to see those things happening as evidence to support the belief system that we are trying to justify? Which again, I just would come back around to embodied practice because it's through the embodied practice that we are able to sit in the darkness. The discomfort and the uncertainty. To sit in that very terrible place and allow ourselves to breathe.

Freddie Kimmel (01:14:28.618)
right.

BeLovedNow (01:14:43.211)
And remember that we're not the feeling. It's moving through us, yeah? The veil is absolutely thin. So ultimately the choice becomes, well, how do you wanna live today? Because you have no guarantee you're gonna wake up tomorrow. What do you wanna do about it? Like, you know, it's, right. What is it that I want? How bad do I want it? And what am I willing to do? What am I willing to do about it?

Freddie Kimmel (01:15:07.822)
Hmm. Yeah. What is it that I want? I think that's a question that I, uh, you know, for whatever reason in my, my life, it's rare that I asked myself that question. I was like, what do you want? You know, I think that's thing, you know, I almost go back to Laura and Kathy. Sometimes I want, or I would love to call in and maybe I'm the one that needs to make it. It's like some type of a workbook, right? You know, we've got the 12 guiding spiritual.

12 guiding spiritual principles. Principles, yeah, can we walk through those for a second before I go on with this question?

BeLovedNow (01:15:46.153)
Sure. What would you like? You would like us to list the 12?

Freddie Kimmel (01:15:50.518)
Yeah, is there an order that they go in? Is there an order for a reason? What are they? What do they do? What do they serve as?

BeLovedNow (01:15:58.175)
Well, the order starts with honesty, right? Honesty, hope, surrender, courage, willingness, acceptance, humility, forgiveness, compassion, resilience, gratitude, joy.

Freddie Kimmel (01:16:16.478)
Mm-hmm. Why do we start with honesty?

BeLovedNow (01:16:20.327)
Without that, you don't have much. You argue with reality, you lose every time. And if you don't know how you feel, honestly, we present as a process of how do I feel and what do I need? If we don't know that.

BeLovedNow (01:16:39.375)
We don't have like a leg to stand on in a way. That's how we. That's that's like the grounding point. That's how we can know what do we want? Yeah. What are our values? Yeah. What's the response? You want to talk about the space between stimulus and response. It's a process of honest inquiry. Yeah. If we're not going to react, continuously react to something, we actually have to stop and pause.

Freddie Kimmel (01:16:42.741)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:17:08.619)
and ask ourselves the truth of what is happening in this moment. And usually the feelings are the first thing that's overriding the system. So we have to acknowledge what's the feeling and it's not who I am but it's happening, okay it's moving through me and then the needs are the thing that is the doorway through to possibility and that's hope.

Hope is like, it's opening to infinite possibility. We have no idea what it's going to look like. We're not attached to the outcome. Right. But we, we have values. We have, we know some things that we want, Freddie. Right. Like for you, wellness has been a motivating, motivating force for you that came out of all the illness. Right.

and you might now be in a process of transition. You're like, oh, I'm in this, I don't know, you did this thing. You've achieved so much wellness. He's at the ceiling of that box. So you're sort of here now and you're going, okay, now what? What's next? That's exciting. It's uncomfortable. But it's a yes and. It's a yes and it's exciting. Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:18:17.218)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:18:26.646)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Is there any other of the 12 guiding spiritual principles that you think are really important to not that they're not all important, right? They're all like equally weighted. We could argue on like a periodic table.

BeLovedNow (01:18:35.371)
Oh.

BeLovedNow (01:18:40.299)
No, I don't. Well, I know what she knows what I'm going to say. I know what she's going to say. We have. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:18:46.038)
Well, let me ask specifically how they fall in the timeline. Do you feel there's a processor, there's an order of operations that is very useful in using these as a tool?

BeLovedNow (01:19:02.327)
Absolutely. Yeah. One informs the other and builds.

There are a few you could maybe flip, or they're twin practices, we say. Twin principles, yeah. Like willingness and acceptance. Or forgiveness and compassion. For sure, you know, gratitude and joy. The thing is, is that it depends on the person because we all have our unique. We bring our own life experience with us and everything that has contributed to the perspective that we're carrying at the time.

So for me- So we're gonna have a different resonant points, right? In four years of practicing this. And I will just say, I found nonviolent communication 15 years ago. So I read the books, I understood it up here. I tried to practice it here and there, thought I was kinda good at it or whatever, but I wasn't- Yeah. I wasn't even doing it really. I was like, you know.

Freddie Kimmel (01:19:55.723)
You're woke.

BeLovedNow (01:20:01.011)
thinking I was doing it. I learned it in a spiritual leadership program much later than you, but yeah, but it was- Until we did it, until we actually made it a process that we were doing each day and teaching and living and sharing and all the things, then it radically changed everything because the principles, the process of the feelings and needs informs the principles as we go. So for me, what made a very huge difference was the-

principle of humility, because my previous understanding of humility was very limited. And that's the way it goes with these principles. People come to Be Love Now, especially the people who have been meditating their whole lives, and maybe they've lived in ashrams or spiritual communities, or they've done the work and a lot of therapists come and they all have like this idea, oh, I think I'm pretty good with all this. And what we hear again and again is, oh my God, I had no idea.

Freddie Kimmel (01:20:58.55)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:21:00.327)
They go through a week of honesty and they're like, my mind is blown, my heart is blown. I am looking at this, we give all different perspective. So for me, humility, the thing was, I did not realize how personally I was taking things my whole life. So up until four years ago, I didn't understand that was my operating system, kind of.

Freddie Kimmel (01:21:19.459)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:21:28.643)
I would take something someone said or a behavior or whatnot and my reaction would be, how could they do that? I would never do that to someone. I created a whole thing around it in my marriage, with my children, when they left dishes in the sink, all the things. And so for me, it was really practicing this understanding of humility of not going against myself, not taking my own bullshit personally.

and not taking yours. Understanding that I cannot do you, I can only do me. Humility continues on the daily to bring me so much joy, I cannot even tell you. And I laugh. I really laugh at myself, because I can feel an old tendency, and I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I lived like that, because it's just such a limited way to live. And it's victim. And it's victim, so that's for me.

Freddie Kimmel (01:22:12.747)
Mm.

BeLovedNow (01:22:27.075)
Everybody is different. Some people are like, oh my God, joy. I never had joy in my life, you know, whatever it is. But I think it's the way in which we have been sort of programmed, the events that have happened to us, and then a guiding spiritual principle comes along that just, oh wow, the clouds have now parted. In the second program of Be Love Now, the second rollout, so we...

Freddie Kimmel (01:22:48.945)
Mm.

BeLovedNow (01:22:54.395)
We launched in the spring of 2020. And so we had a spring program that ran through the middle of the summer. And then we had a program that started in that September of that year. And I was journaling the first week of the program is honesty. It was doing readings on honesty from an interfaith interspiritual lens. So different vantage points every day, doing it short reading and then journaling questions. And I was journaling on honesty. Remember, I'm a veteran at 12 step.

Freddie Kimmel (01:22:57.706)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:23:18.947)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:23:22.075)
honest about admitting things and acknowledging things. I'm journaling on honesty. And I realized that I'm journaling this pretty much, I had this hit that I realized that I'm, I think I'm journaling exactly what I journaled on honesty the first time in the program. And I had this moment of like, huh, what's that about? And I broke through and I realized.

Freddie Kimmel (01:23:37.474)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:23:47.587)
There was a moment where I realized, what am I not saying? And I looked deeper and it uncovered this whole pattern that I have, that I learned in my family, that I think a lot of women learn in our culture, which is pretending everything is fine, making it okay, and feeling hyper responsible for my partner's emotional comfort or discomfort.

Freddie Kimmel (01:24:12.511)
Hmm

BeLovedNow (01:24:13.967)
That was huge for me. And I thought I was, I thought, quote, I thought I was an honest person. I don't lie, I don't steal, but I also wasn't looking deeper beneath the surface of what was really true. So I would say honesty for me is, what's one of the things about Be Love Now, being in community and the practice of feelings that needs, honesty is like definitely a game changer for me.

Freddie Kimmel (01:24:27.398)
Mm.

BeLovedNow (01:24:39.655)
because it's a doorway into my own vulnerability, which I guarded for so many years. Right, keeping me from the very thing that I most want, which is deep abiding love and connection with myself and other people and in my community. So I would say number one is honesty. Humility for me is also big and forgiveness, like letting go of the burden of carrying all that shit of...

Freddie Kimmel (01:24:45.168)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:24:57.495)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:25:08.743)
that my ledgers of injustice. It's liberating. Being liberated so that I have my own truth. And actually, it's a practice of freedom for me. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:25:12.139)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:25:20.99)
Yeah, beautiful. This, yeah, it's so exciting that to know the power of this work and to know that for many people, it can be, man, I listen to people's problems all the time and I just say, wow, this could be really powerful for you if you're ready, if this is something you wanna look at.

BeLovedNow (01:25:46.243)
And I know and Freddie, I'm just going to say right there. We have recently come to a place where we have a lot of people saying, I don't know if I'm ready and I actually don't think it's about being ready. It's about being willing. They're two, they're really two different energies.

Freddie Kimmel (01:26:03.013)
Mm-hmm.

Oh yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:26:07.167)
You know, like, I just stood on a cliff to jump into cold water in the Arkansas River with my, you know, 19 year old son. And I was scared and it was high and I, and I, it was a drop. It took me a couple moments to, to like, we did a video and I was like, oh yeah, you had to get swept away down the wrong fork of the river. And there was a moment where I kept, I kept saying, I'm not ready. I said, stop the camera. I'm not ready. And I remember thinking to myself, I'm willing.

Freddie Kimmel (01:26:15.458)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:26:37.711)
It's not about being ready. I'm actually probably never gonna be ready to jump off that rock. I am willing to just go for it. And that's what shifted. And I feel like I'm using that example because I think this I'm not ready keeps people from exploring a willingness. And some people in the program will say, how come willingness isn't the first principle? And that's where you can start to kind of play with different things. Are you willing to be honest?

Freddie Kimmel (01:26:46.271)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:27:03.702)
Yeah, you're willingly. Are you, are you, yeah. Are you honest? Are you honest enough to be, to admit that you're willing or not? Right.

BeLovedNow (01:27:10.644)
You could play around with all of them. It doesn't necessarily matter. That's why we have them in a spiral. Because it's like they're always kind of like looping around on themselves and you can see sort of how they relate to each other. What their relationships are. But ultimately I think there is such a interesting thing when you say to someone, are you willing? It shifts.

Freddie Kimmel (01:27:15.662)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:27:24.642)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:27:34.291)
Because when you ask people, are you ready? A lot of times the answer is no. The answer is no. And you say, would you be willing? We say that a lot. Would you be willing to repeat back to me what you heard me say? Would you be willing to make an agreement? And that is, it's huh. If you ask someone, are you ready? A lot of times they're like, well, I'm not ready. Now's not the right time.

Freddie Kimmel (01:27:48.354)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:27:56.215)
So willing, it's like just opening up the heart a tiny bit. Are you willing to meet me here? Just a little bit is all you need. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:28:04.626)
Yeah, yeah, I as an avoidant attachment style, human being, when someone tells me they're like, I'm doing this at this time, is that okay? And I'm always like, no, you already told me what you're doing. Now you're asking me if I'm okay with it. You know, so I feel like put upon as a person, I'm like, no, I want to be the one to say I'm willing. Oh, I agree.

BeLovedNow (01:28:25.689)
interest.

Freddie Kimmel (01:28:32.018)
not you tell me what you're doing and then I'm either going to like strap in and take it or I'm going to pull away because like, you know, it's just, it's really interesting. The nuance of language. Somebody asked me the other day, Lauren Sanbutaro, the biohacker babes, has said, what's your most powerful biohack? I was like language, a hundred percent.

BeLovedNow (01:28:52.099)
I love that answer.

Freddie Kimmel (01:28:52.538)
100%. There's nothing stronger. It's just, it has a vibration. You set the tone to your story. You set yourself up as a hero or a victim or the villain. And you're the person choosing the narrative day after day after day. So what is the story you wanna tell?

BeLovedNow (01:29:16.078)
That's probably why the feelings it needs really speak to you. Yeah. Because it's all about the language. Yeah. And creating something new. The clarity and the awareness. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:29:19.506)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:29:26.174)
Yeah. I will, I w I've witnessed, I've witnessed, um, cause I use them all the time and, and have friends do them. And when we play, um, we play with these words and obviously those other communities that use similar tools, um, NVC and online communication. And it's interesting how it can be an inhibitor sometimes cause it's so clunky for people and they really get caught up on the

Um, they get caught up on the tool. Like they're just not sure. Like, I just know how to, I don't know how to swing the hammer. So in, in needing to meet people where they're at, uh, I found, yeah, sometimes you just need to approach it a different way and you need to understand that it's not an absolute and it's a process and it'll be clunky until it's not, I remember feeling very, just almost like, wait,

I know there's worksheets that I'm supposed to be referencing from as I use this internal language and I don't know them or I don't know that I don't know the extent of the diversity. So I would almost freeze. Do you ever experienced people doing that? They're like, I would just get flustered that I'm like, I'm not doing it right. I would be very attached to wanting to be, you know, some degree of have some efficacy as a, as a, as my human design.

BeLovedNow (01:30:42.988)
Yeah, yeah, totally.

Freddie Kimmel (01:30:52.318)
yields that I would freeze. And so it took, that's why it's called the practice. Yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:30:55.691)
But that's why it's called practice. Yeah. And you would know being a Broadway person that you're not going to sing and dance like those people on the stage. The first time. Yeah. You are not. You're not. And to have community to reflect back to you and support you in the process is gold.

Freddie Kimmel (01:31:08.166)
You are not. You are not. You are not. No. It's-

BeLovedNow (01:31:20.687)
Well, I have people, we have people that text us all the time, like grads and people that have been in our, that are either currently in programs or have been in programs. They're like, you know, I'm in this kind of situation, da da, I'm really working on this thing. And we'll say, send us your feelings and needs statement. And then they'll send it and they'll ask, like, you know, would you, would you be able to help me out with I'm having trouble settling on the thought, the thought.

It's usually the facts in the beginning. So when you help them get straight on what the statement is, then they're able to drop into the feelings and then they're on track to figure out the needs. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:32:00.098)
Yeah, just the facts, ma'am. Have you ever thought about a Be Love Now card game?

BeLovedNow (01:32:10.299)
This has come up before. We have lots of ideas. Yeah, we do. Ha!

Freddie Kimmel (01:32:14.498)
I think about it all the time. I was like, there's something nice about playing cards and you're shuffling the deck and you're making your hand. You're like, this feeling, this feeling, this feeling. But it's almost like you would need, I gotta bring it up. Okay, it's almost like you would need, so imagine there's needs, right? There's needs under meaning, needs under safety, needs under divinity. I'll just give you three of the examples. It's almost like you would need the meaning cards to be blue.

and the safety cards to be green. You know, you'd need a system in which you're like, well, I already did a green card. Now give me a meaning card. Have you looked at safety? And really, you'd have to really think about it. But I've often thought, oh, wouldn't this be fun? Because sometimes I feel like the energetics of, let me, how do I want to say this? Sometimes I feel like this works sometimes if there is no willingness, it is lost on the older population.

BeLovedNow (01:32:47.014)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:33:10.986)
Like I would love to do this work with kids. I'd love if kids had an expanded emotional vocabulary and you witness, cause sometimes you'll hang out with people's kids. You're like, oh my God, they're amazing. Oh my God, these kids are a nightmare. Right? And you hear them, there is no like, they're in like, you know, when they put the bumper lanes in the pool game, there's like nowhere to go. They're like ding, ding. I was like, these kids just need to experience.

BeLovedNow (01:33:14.793)
Oh, yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:33:38.203)
a broader emotional intelligence and what would that look like? Broader vocabulary?

BeLovedNow (01:33:41.399)
vocabulary. Yeah. I used to bring it into the Waldorf school and they have cards. NBC has cards, so I would bring in the cards and they could look at the cards on the table and pick the feelings and pick the needs. I was thinking that, and kids do great with it. It's amazing how kids pick it up super quickly. Yeah. I think I was just thinking as you were talking about the card game and

We should do this sometime when we're together, like brainstorm a card game, because when we're in person, it's like, boop, boop. But I was thinking like, what if you have like, you know, like a spinny dial or something like that, and you had the guiding spiritual principles, and like the arrow landed on a principle, so you didn't get to pick the principle.

It could principle picked you. And then there was a question around the, and then the car you had to do with the cards, right? So it's like forgiveness. And you got some questions. You had to pick a card. Like what was the hardest time you ever had to forgive someone or is there someone? And then you had to pick, okay, now pick three feelings that describe, you know, or something. Because then you could incorporate all the things into it.

Freddie Kimmel (01:34:24.188)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:34:38.339)
Ooh, that's really good.

BeLovedNow (01:34:49.703)
you know, and make it very applicable. Anyway, I got my brains going now, friend. I like that.

Freddie Kimmel (01:34:49.877)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:34:53.97)
Yeah, we just need to map it. I have a couple of game makers here that do cards and they do that for a living. But I think, yeah, if you can build it into a practice, if it's some way gamified, if there can be like a little... Yeah, if it can be fun, you know, there's a little bit of checks and balances, a reward system, something to that nature. I love playing Monopoly. Is it?

BeLovedNow (01:35:00.461)
Oh, that's so cool.

BeLovedNow (01:35:06.447)
It's fun. If it's like a fun thing.

BeLovedNow (01:35:19.14)
playing all games.

Freddie Kimmel (01:35:20.518)
Yeah, yeah. I used to be fun. It's been a long time since I played Monopoly. We used to play Operation. Of course we, we love that analogy. The fallacy that we pull out broken femur bone and, and client is healed. I just found an Operation game the other day and a, and I used story. I should have bought it. It was like two bucks.

BeLovedNow (01:35:27.414)
Oh my god.

BeLovedNow (01:35:40.593)
I'm so much fun. Waaah!

Freddie Kimmel (01:35:42.03)
Yeah. Hungry Hippo. Another good one. Do you remember Hungry Hippo? Oh, Hungry Hippo was a loud game. You're like, whack, whack. You're the hit. There's marbles rolling around and you're hitting your, your Hippo butt and the mouth opens and the marbles are kind of rolling into the, the Hippo mouth. Yeah, that's a really good one too. But I, I think about how much time we spent as children really just, we were just, just so we, we just always in a state of play.

BeLovedNow (01:35:46.487)
Not a man.

BeLovedNow (01:35:58.568)
I never heard of that.

Freddie Kimmel (01:36:11.418)
And now I see kids don't have that. They're the screens and the digital engagement and the iPads that become really like a babysitter because it zones their intention in there. It right there locked into that screen. I was like, whoa, what a good sitter. But I do think there's a cost to that as far as like the creativity and expansion of a child's mind. I mean, we could, not to get people heated about it, but like what could be the fix in some of these.

BeLovedNow (01:36:32.291)
Oh, you're so troubling.

Freddie Kimmel (01:36:39.67)
different ways to bring back a game that is also educational, that's also solving a bigger problem, right?

BeLovedNow (01:36:46.055)
Right. Getting in touch with your feelings is a major thing that most kids don't learn. So I think that's a really good point.

Freddie Kimmel (01:36:51.794)
Yeah, I never learned it. We didn't talk about feelings.

BeLovedNow (01:36:55.511)
And so we were saying in the earlier part of the podcast, you know, expect that you should know how you feel and what you need, but it's not like this innate knowing it's not, we don't think it's an innate knowing. It's actually a learned skill and that's why it needs to be modeled and taught. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:37:10.91)
Yeah. Yeah, that is noble. Yeah. Even, even, um, you know, I've been doing all these interviews with the, the biomed center and the Marion Institute. I'm interviewing Dr. Tom Dickinson on Thursday, Dr. Rao, you know, that from, from parasol sis that

Right, all these cool people, right, in this idea of biological medicine or bioregulatory, it's just, it has this energy of wholism. It's like everything. You know, your dietary temperaments, your family history, what happened to your preconception. Yes, what is your blood chemistry doing, but also your genetics and your epigenetics. How is your genome, your genetic expression, affected by outside world? How are you removing things? I love that they, the language that they use about

I'm doing this course right now through the Marion Institute, which is a, it's a, uh, an intro course for biological medicine. It's 10 hours, but they, the idea of even when they frame heavy metal toxicity, it's like, well, what's a metal? It's something other than self. And how does the body process something other than self to remove it from the tissue in a non-harmful way? What, how is that process hindered by emotions, environments?

How are you set up genetically to process something other than self by what was passed down from your parents? And it really starts to loop everything into, wow, it's a beautiful story of this. You're healing what your parents didn't heal, right? You're healing. You understand it. You're like, oh, I never. It sounds like such a woo-woo thing to say, oh, I'm healing generations forward and backwards. But you are.

BeLovedNow (01:38:49.511)
Thank you.

BeLovedNow (01:38:57.007)
No, it's true. It's very true.

Freddie Kimmel (01:38:58.882)
When you're doing this work, you're healing different generations. You know, and in this non-linear, you know, we just decided like yesterday that the universe is twice as old as we thought it was before. There'll be some point where like, well, time didn't really start.

BeLovedNow (01:39:02.809)
Absolutely.

BeLovedNow (01:39:16.151)
Right, right. Was there actually a start?

Freddie Kimmel (01:39:19.371)
When did time start?

Freddie Kimmel (01:39:24.262)
Yeah, the big questions. I don't think we can answer that on this podcast. I would like to just touch on, I know we're long in our time and you have a, do you have another engagement?

BeLovedNow (01:39:31.279)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:39:35.739)
1230. Yeah. A few more minutes. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:39:37.726)
You have a few more minutes. Well, let's just touch on Lyme disease and biotoxin illness since we have such a big experience with that, you both being based in Connecticut, the epicenter of Lyme disease, um, certainly not the beginning of Lyme disease because we can, we've now found Spirochetes back in Neanderthals bone tissue and fun things like that, but modern day Lyme is it's exposing it's a, it's an epidemic for sure. Um.

You know, we both have experience with AMP coil. AMP coil is in case nobody's, this is your first podcast. AMP coil is a tool that works with the energetic body, delivers pulsed electromagnetic waves and sound therapy or frequency therapy to help harmonize disruptions in the body. Disruptions could be microbes, metals or toxins. Kathy, can you just give us like, again, like a...

like a one to one and a half minute overview of your experience is, is lime your dark night of the soul? Question number one, let's do that one first.

BeLovedNow (01:40:45.863)
Oh, God, that's a hard. Yes. And I would say my, my family was, my whole family was affected by it. I mean, I got my first tick bite that I know of. I think I probably had it as a kid because I grew up on the North shore of Long Island and I had mono and Epstein bar and all the things. I was never quite healthy. You know, Scott, my husband used to joke that, you know, he got a lemon.

Freddie Kimmel (01:40:47.938)
That's a hard one.

Freddie Kimmel (01:41:07.522)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:41:10.707)
Because I was sick a lot, you know, and frail and not. So anywho, I got bit by my first tick when I got pregnant with my first child, with Quinn. So that was many, many years of sickness. I've had every tick borne illness, and I'm a muscle through it kind of person. So I just, you know, I just would keep going. I, you know, tried antibiotics, but I ended up with naturopaths and all the things, but really...

Freddie Kimmel (01:41:13.226)
Mmm.

BeLovedNow (01:41:40.431)
really challenged me was when my kids got sick. So that's a hard one. And... Especially. Quinn and Allie, both of them, one after the other. And so we did everything. We spent lots of money. We went to all over, went to Switzerland, went to Dr. Rao's clinic, all the things. And I would say the amp coil was the shift.

That is the, that was what I could say overall. Laura bought it for our family as a gift cause we were really struggling at the time. And it was under our Christmas tree when we got back from the Switzerland, from the clinic. And I'm not saying that those things didn't also help. But it was the, we just started turning the amp oil on. Quinn would say, I don't know what that is. I just feel better when I'm on it. And I did and Allie did. And then like about four to six months later.

Freddie Kimmel (01:42:12.354)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:42:24.064)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:42:38.155)
It was just this like, wow, I'm feeling really good. Wow. I'm not as tired anywhere. Wow. What's going on here? And I just started leaning into the technology. What is this thing really doing? Because I wasn't even running cleanses online yet. I didn't even know what I was doing. So

Freddie Kimmel (01:42:47.97)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:42:56.031)
you know, fast forward, we did the LIME study with the 12 people. I went to the, you know, to the summit and really learned. I'm a very good student and I'm very coachable. So if I find something that's of interest to me, I'm like, okay, teach me. And I learned. And so then that's how you and I met Freddie through that. And so here we are many years later. I've seen so many people.

Freddie Kimmel (01:43:07.536)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:43:12.256)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:43:23.719)
shift and be helped and not just with line. Yeah. You know, I mean, the latest ones, you know, I mean, I just did a testimonial with this woman, Heather, who has carrying around oxygen, you know, she has long COPD and COPD. And it's like, now she's like, they're telling her.

She it's the equivalent. She's jogging the equivalent of three miles and she's not using any oxygen. When I met her, she would have to take the oxygen with her at the top of the stairs. She's like 70. I don't know exactly how old she is, but anywho, I'm I she's going to come on the call. Are you running the transit? Yeah. So she, so she'll come on the call so you can really get into it. But I'm just saying for me.

Freddie Kimmel (01:43:58.146)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:44:06.223)
The AMCOIL, I don't know what the percentage is, but I feel like it can really get people like 80, 85%. This is what we found with the pilot study. Yeah. But we must deal with the underlying emotional imbalance. So during that Lyme study that was done at the barn that Kathy was running, we were doing spiritual counseling with the people. And the ones that were really willing to do the work,

Freddie Kimmel (01:44:14.0)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:44:21.888)
Right.

BeLovedNow (01:44:34.403)
and look underneath the hood. They're the ones that got better. Because we're treating them as a whole. It's kind of like what you're saying. You can have all the devices in the world. I mean, you've seen all the people with all the things, and they're still stuck. They're still stuck in the story and in the old belief system that they can't heal or nothing's going to work. Or that.

Freddie Kimmel (01:44:36.458)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:44:56.382)
Yeah. And if, if we're, you know, for, if we're, if we're coming to the shared reality that all these things are happening for us, then why, why would, why would the, um, architect of, of existence, why would allow you to have a box that just is the easy button to alleviate pain and suffering? It's like, you know, it's like, yeah, sure. It's there to create a shift.

BeLovedNow (01:45:18.035)
Thanks.

Freddie Kimmel (01:45:21.37)
and we can have an alleviation of symptoms, but then there needs to be a deeper understanding about the whys and the hows and the what's.

BeLovedNow (01:45:25.319)
Right. Well, and to add to that, the thing with the Amqal that's so interesting, it's like I've incorporated it into my daily life. It is something we travel with it. It is, so it feels to me that if you think about the principles of, you know, resonance and trainment.

Freddie Kimmel (01:45:35.821)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:45:45.007)
this kind of thinking, it would make sense that you keep sort of tuning in. You're, that's why we call it becoming. It's not like a one and done or a 10 and done, or, you know, people say to me sometimes, well, why would I want to buy a device that I was addicted to? I'm like, that is the complete opposite way that I look at it. I look at it like as valuable as my meditation practice.

Freddie Kimmel (01:46:10.774)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:46:11.055)
Right. It's another aspect of frequency medicine. Meditation is frequency medicine. So it's like, I, I see it. I see the people who really take it and use it and are curious about it and continue to want to learn and up level. And they really shift and change their lives. Right.

Freddie Kimmel (01:46:16.958)
Hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:46:32.258)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:46:37.247)
I see people who are looking outside of themselves for the answer and they're like, oh, well I stopped using the coil or it doesn't work anymore or whatever. And it's like, then you, if you lean in with them and you just get them to start using, they're like, oh, actually I am feeling better. It's just an interesting thing about, do you have a growth mindset? Are you curious? Are you gonna use the tool for your own awakening and expansion? Or are you gonna go back to sleep?

Freddie Kimmel (01:46:37.308)
I see people who are looking outside of themselves for the answer.

Freddie Kimmel (01:46:50.482)
get them to start eating and they're like, oh, actually I'm hungry. Yeah. It's just an interesting.

Freddie Kimmel (01:47:07.402)
Yeah, it's funny. It's, I like a toothbrush would work. It's like, no, the toothbrush, it's always gonna brush your teeth. It's like, it doesn't mean you're not gonna get a cavity. It doesn't mean you're not gonna get, you know, tooth brushing doesn't alleviate all dental things for your lifetime. It doesn't do it. Not just brushing your teeth. It's like, there's a lot going on. There's genetics. There's like,

BeLovedNow (01:47:19.751)
Right.

BeLovedNow (01:47:24.496)
Guarantee.

BeLovedNow (01:47:30.303)
It's not a panacea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:47:35.738)
mineral density, there's like acidity of the body, there's gingivitis, there's the oral microbiome. So it's what I like to say is with these tools, ice, magnetics, lights, oxygen, breathwork, hyperbarics, lymphatic drainage, they work every time. Every time. You don't stop those. I don't

driving circulation or spinning electrons, you never stop it. It's always gonna work. It's what your experience is. That's gonna be different because as a human being, all the things that you, we could, we just mentioned that the different ways in which we color or embody the skin suit, it's like, it's infinitely different than Freddie is, than Cathy, than Laura. So you shouldn't see the, you shouldn't generally see the same result. It's just like if I said,

You know, everybody pick up this 25 pound weight and assuming we're all gonna get the same hormetic stressor, it's the same weight, are our biceps gonna grow the same? Hell no. Right? Hell no. And it's really hard to separate the variables. Like, were you in the full range of extension when you did do the work? Was there protein or amino acids present to do the rebuilding of the micro tears in the muscle? Like I could go on and on and on about variables.

why people don't get the workout results that they want. I could go on and on, but I think I want to tie it back into the 12 guiding spiritual principles and this work of truly understanding and a deep knowing of why you do you, why you should show up as the way you do. It really does give you a great base of the pyramid to build off of that. I don't think anything else does.

BeLovedNow (01:49:01.564)
All of-

BeLovedNow (01:49:32.071)
Well, nothing that I found. So we created it. I mean, that's the thing. That's exactly right. We've been meditating for God knows how many years, yoga, we went to ministry, and all of those things are a part of what we're offering. It's just what we lacked. And I mean, I can just speak for myself. And I said this on a discovery call, and I'm trying to hone it more, but it's like.

I, we created the program that we wanted, you know, that I, I have been meditating, but I also need accountability. I like to do the feelings and needs, but if I don't have someone to do them with, I'm not going to grow because I'm going to just be manufacturing and buying my own bullshit as normal. So I need the other actually to reflect back to me because it's in that it's in relationship that I wake up.

Freddie Kimmel (01:50:16.98)
Mmm.

BeLovedNow (01:50:25.879)
I'm like, oh boy, that was, I got triggered or what am I? So the guiding spiritual principles are this incredible opportunity if applied, if embodied. Implemented, integrated. And with others. With other people.

Freddie Kimmel (01:50:41.035)
Mm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:50:44.546)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:50:45.475)
And that's why I keep showing up in Be Love Now. That's why I keep doing the work. And I look forward to the next program that runs because we do it along with everybody. We were just talking about this one. I can't wait till September when BLN8 begins on September 18th, because then we'll be back in that daily practice of accountability in community. Now we're still meditating for sure. But I just said to her, like, I haven't journaled in like eight days or nine days, you know, whatever.

Freddie Kimmel (01:51:11.842)
Hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:51:11.895)
And I look forward to having the container created with a group of people. It feels really good to me. It's fun. It, it, um, it furthers the self inquiry. I really do believe that. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:51:23.134)
Yeah. Amazing. Well, I celebrate the work that you're doing in the world. Tell me how people would find you and the work and the course and a way in.

BeLovedNow (01:51:36.307)
There's a couple ways to find us. First of all, our website www.beelovethenow.org. All of our program information, bios to find out about us, our retreat information, scheduling with us for discovery calls, information calls, spiritual counseling, all of that is on the website. We're also on social, so Facebook and Instagram. Facebook is Be Love Now.

Instagram is BeLoveNowTribe.

Freddie Kimmel (01:52:08.354)
Great.

BeLovedNow (01:52:08.615)
That's it. That's how you can find us.

Freddie Kimmel (01:52:13.291)
Great. And give me a little, you said the timeline for your next Be Love Now eight. What are we now? It's July, today's we're recording on July 26th. We will probably get this out in a couple of weeks.

BeLovedNow (01:52:22.227)
Oh, it starts up.

BeLovedNow (01:52:27.355)
Mm-hmm. We did.

Mm-hmm. We did our first discovery call last night for the Be Love Now programs, Be Love Now 8, which is starting on September 18th. We have another discovery call on August 28th, Monday. And all that information is on our website.

Freddie Kimmel (01:52:45.79)
Mm-hmm. Great.

Freddie Kimmel (01:52:50.754)
Great, and is it full yet? No, not yet. It's early.

BeLovedNow (01:52:52.699)
No, it's early. People sign up for programs like this. Some sign up early. Yeah, but most sign up a week or two, two weeks, three weeks before, within the month, usually. And the timing of this, it's going to be, we're coming off of summer, and there'll be Labor Day. So we're aware of the fact that we started our discovery calls early because to give people time to.

Freddie Kimmel (01:53:13.196)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:53:21.327)
check into their willingness.

Freddie Kimmel (01:53:23.278)
Check into their willingness. I'm not ready. I'm not quite willing. I like that. I really like the humility too. The humility that really resonates with me is the humility and understanding it's not about me. Other people's responses and voices and the way they act out in the world or lean into the world is not about me.

BeLovedNow (01:53:28.614)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:53:34.664)
Mm.

BeLovedNow (01:53:44.196)
It's early.

BeLovedNow (01:53:48.203)
I kind of feel the thing that's so powerful, that one in particular, I don't know if it's the time that we're living in and the social media component of everything and this like frenetic like, because everything is so like, you know, Twitter and this and that, like the things we used to not be at, we didn't know what was going on all over, right? We had, we had to wait to get news to a certain amount of time. And now it's like,

Freddie Kimmel (01:53:55.573)
Mm-hmm.

BeLovedNow (01:54:14.903)
that part of it, humility seems to speak to the pause to me. You know, this, this idea of a sacred pause or the pause between stimulus and response. It widens the gap enough for me. I'm, I'm a fiery Aries person. And so I can be reactive. And so for me,

Freddie Kimmel (01:54:37.279)
Yes you can.

BeLovedNow (01:54:38.699)
So yeah, so for me it's like, okay, so hold on a second. Let me take a pause. Right, I'm taking this personally, what's really going on for me. So then it brings me back into honesty. And I think it's, I imagine a world, could you imagine if we lived in a world where everybody actually practiced that?

Freddie Kimmel (01:54:53.193)
Yeah.

BeLovedNow (01:55:03.531)
that it's not a reflection of me. It's actually not like, not from that space that we go, oh, that's nothing about, you know, but really like, okay, wait, I'm taking it personally. I mean, I think war might not happen. That's where I'm with it, you know?

Freddie Kimmel (01:55:13.126)
Mm.

Freddie Kimmel (01:55:18.318)
Yeah, you know, again, I want to go back to the word practice, right? We have, we practice it because I think our tendency, we have, it's, we said earlier that there was a 90% of the thoughts are unconscious. So in practice, I think we can, I think we can attempt to steer the boat towards a world that may have less war. I don't think, you know what, again,

I think it's nice. I think it's idealistic. But I think at the end of the day, it's like the pain, the suffering, the hardship, the activation makes coloring to witness. It's like, oh, here's what I don't want to be. Here's I want to be in love. I want to be radically. I want to bring in the humility and my observations of other people. I want to bring in empathy. I want to be radically honest with myself and I'm navigating this day. So I think it's that.

that practice, but it will, I think it's like, you know, the story, Cathy, of the little soul. It's like, if you don't have a little soul that pops into the body to be your antagonist, how can you ever have the human experience be very dynamic? It'd be very bland if we walked around like heaven on earth. And I think, again, that's a, that's a fairy tale that we're sold within storybooks. But from my lived experience, it is, it's going to be colored and painful and there, there will be terrible things that happen.

But I think that's what makes the beauty.

BeLovedNow (01:56:46.775)
I think terrible things could still happen and we could not have war. But I'm just saying, I'm a pacifist, but I... You know, a teacher of ours said to us, you know, everything is either love or a call for love.

Freddie Kimmel (01:56:52.334)
Oh, I'm right there with you. I hope for that.

Freddie Kimmel (01:57:02.194)
Yeah, it's a love for a call for love. But even if you look at the, you know, look at the, I think it's funny, the stories in movies that we witness often, they're a reflection of what we're dealing with. Like look at the Marvel series. You know, do you ever watch the Marvel superheroes? You know, that one, you're like, you had this thing and there's a conflict and they come to the end and everything's good. But then there's another villain, they come to the end and then they're in another universe. And then there's a multiverse and then it's like.

BeLovedNow (01:57:30.112)
There's good guys and there's bad guys. It's pretty polarizing, but it's very simplistic in that sense.

Freddie Kimmel (01:57:32.247)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (01:57:37.318)
Yeah, and the story goes on. Right, the story goes on. So there certainly are, if we walk into a library, there's an infinity number of books we can pick up and choose to read. And I think I'd love to close with the idea of, well, it might not feel like it all the time. We do have, we have the ability to at least choose the verbiage and the text that we're using in my story.

BeLovedNow (01:58:05.427)
Absolutely.

Freddie Kimmel (01:58:07.462)
And other than that, there's not a lot of control.

BeLovedNow (01:58:12.179)
Choose it and take responsibility for it. That's what we say. Our response is always our responsibility.

Freddie Kimmel (01:58:19.966)
Yeah. Well, I, again, I celebrate the work that you're doing. I love for how accessible and how human you are. You know, I think it's for me, it's, uh, it's, it's nice to see people go off the rails and judge other people and get really ugly and do imperfect things. I was like, Oh my goodness. Thank God you're real.

BeLovedNow (01:58:42.563)
Yeah, we are very real.

Freddie Kimmel (01:58:44.042)
You know, the, um, the, uh, we could do another podcast about this sometimes, you know, I'm in this weird little, it's a little Austin, Texas. Everybody's like a healer there, you know, a self-proclaimed, I hate that word. It was like, I'm not, nobody's healing anything. It's your body doing it. We're just mirroring in my experience, but you get a lot of like, I have found sometimes this, this world of, of cultivating wellness, it's like people know enough to be dangerous and within that space where you're always living in.

the light, you get some real, really dark moments and some dark personality traits that, that show themselves and in an, in an unwillingness to be fully human.

Freddie Kimmel (01:59:31.637)
Anyways.

BeLovedNow (01:59:32.403)
Power with or power over, baby. It's from the beginning of time. So we choose power with. That's what we choose again and again.

Freddie Kimmel (01:59:35.626)
Yeah. From the beginning of time.

Freddie Kimmel (01:59:42.914)
Well, I'm glad we stuck with it, even though we had a rocky minute and 30 second initial recording one that nobody will ever hear. Ha ha ha!

BeLovedNow (01:59:49.888)
Bravo to you, and bravo to us. Thanks, Freddie. It's always an enlightening and exciting conversation. It certainly is. Thanks for the talk.

Freddie Kimmel (01:59:58.078)
Yeah, yeah, we have some action steps, the very, the least being a card game. Okay.

BeLovedNow (02:00:03.511)
Okay. I'm up for it. That'll be really fun. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (02:00:07.683)
I love you guys. I will talk to you soon. Big love. Bye.

BeLovedNow (02:00:12.491)
Bye, love.