Stop Biohacking Broken Biology: Mitochondria, Methylene Blue & the Real Path to Longevity with Dr. Scott Sherr

WELCOME TO EPISODE 287

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Freddie Kimmel (00:00.302)
All right, ladies and gentlemen, we're back with a beautifully broken podcast and a repeat offender, Dr. Scott.

Dr. Scott Sherr (00:06.702)
It's great to be back with you, Freddie. Thank you for fitting me in. I know this is a last minute deal, but it's great to see you.

Freddie Kimmel (00:12.534)
I would 1 million percent rather do this in person than I would. love us. I'm a good interviewer on a zoom call, but I love I'd rather be in the physical. Yeah.

Dr. Scott Sherr (00:20.622)
Most of us feel that way. When you get the chance to hang out and do this in person, it's always a good day. It's convenient. You can go. You don't have to have any pants on. That's right. know about that upstairs. get, mean, especially your house. It sounds like you got a nice setup there, but in person. So it's good to see you. Thank you for having me.

Freddie Kimmel (00:28.417)
Yeah, zoom.

Freddie Kimmel (00:40.686)
It's good to see you. I started to listen to our last episode I was saying to you that you were number I think it's 119 or 110. We are just released whenever this comes out. We just released like 285. Wow.

Dr. Scott Sherr (00:52.994)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (00:54.158)
This space has changed so much since I first had Dr. Ted was in the first 50 episodes, you were in the first 110. It's wild. You we were talking about how fringe we were and how outside the box and now there's red lights over at Target.

Dr. Scott Sherr (01:12.034)
Yeah, and there's New York time articles at least once a week on something that people are doing like increasing their protein or like trying to prevent their ovaries from aging. I'm like, wow, things have changed a lot.

Freddie Kimmel (01:24.93)
Yeah, I'll tell everybody that when you hear this, when you watch this on YouTube, whatever you're doing, go check out the first episode. It's really good. Really good.

Dr. Scott Sherr (01:33.708)
Yeah, sure. I don't remember, but I'm sure it was great because you and I were chatting.

Freddie Kimmel (01:38.302)
Well, we do, we do a deep dive on hyperbarics and the epigenetic influence of pressurized oxygen and those genes that can change and the balance that, that hormetic stressor, that oxy can be oxygen can be also the acute care. it's a really good podcast on oxygen, but it's 2026 and you're involved in a lot of different things. If we bumped into each other in an elevator and we had like four floors, what would you tell me that you do?

Dr. Scott Sherr (02:04.206)
Ah, that's a good question. It's an elevator pitch. So what I would say I do at this point in my life is that, oh man, I have to think about this. Okay, this is what I'd say, is that I have a fantastic setup. I work as a clinician, seeing patients in a small telemedicine practice outside of Boulder, Colorado. That's a long-term process to help them with optimizing their health, which takes a while. It doesn't happen immediately and overnight, although everybody would like to. But I've created with co-founders and friends companies now

that can help people right now while they're on that path to optimizing their health. And that's a company called Trescriptions, which you know that has great products that help people on that path. And in the ecosystem, we have a nonprofit that's training practitioners as well. What floor am I on? How many more minutes do I have?

Freddie Kimmel (02:48.13)
You got, you got 10 if you want to keep taking the ride. Yeah.

Dr. Scott Sherr (02:51.64)
So I have, we have the nonprofit organization, it's called health optimization medicine and practice that trains practitioners on how to optimize health. That I spent a lot of time helping train in the faculty there. That's the foundation of what I do in my own clinical practice. And the transcription side is the helping patients right now along that path. And then I still very much involved in hyperbaric medicine, helping people really dial it in, but I've gotten a lot more.

nuanced about my approach, maybe since our last podcast, I used to be, I think a little more cavalier about, everybody should get in the chamber as soon as possible kind of deal. But I've learned over the years that there's a time and there's a place and there's a station and those kinds of things. Right. And so even in between, I was disinvited from speaking at a conference on hyperbaric therapy because the talk title was going to be, please do not put them in the chamber.

Freddie Kimmel (03:38.54)
Yeah. Well, maybe that gives us content and timeline to when you got on. Cause that was the pull quote. That the pull quote from our last episode was like, don't get in the chamber.

Dr. Scott Sherr (03:42.795)
That was it.

Dr. Scott Sherr (03:46.412)
That's it. That's exactly where I had shifted. was like, wait, there's more here that we need to do foundationally to truly work with somebody on the long term to really see them optimize their health. Because what I've seen and what I was seeing then at sort of the early stages was people might get better, but then oftentimes they would go back to the way they were before. Or maybe they'd relapse. It wasn't seeming to actually do what I knew the physiology could do. And then now over the last

five years, however long it's been, now I understand so much more about energy metabolism, mitochondrial efficiency, mitochondrial dysfunction, the inputs, the sort sympathetic dominance that so many of us have that is sort of running our lives and not allowing us to heal, detox, digest, all those kinds of things. I think I've just, now I have more of a framework. Then it was like just understanding that I was doing something in a way that wasn't optimal, you know? But now I really understand that there is like,

It's really all about looking at foundational frameworks like health optimization medicine and looking at mitochondrial function as kind of the biggest driver of everything.

Freddie Kimmel (04:51.298)
Yeah, well, I want to stick with oxygen first. Because 2025 was a hell of a year for hyperbaric chambers in the news, you know, we had to two very tragic deaths. We did one one up near Michigan or Wisconsin, and we had one down in Arizona. Yep. And one was a practitioner, one was a child. And they were both accidents in which there was an explosion in the chamber. You know, you aren't involved with either of these clinics. But can you to the best of your understanding, what

Dr. Scott Sherr (04:53.515)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (05:21.232)
happen.

Dr. Scott Sherr (05:22.456)
So as far as what I know is that the facility that was in Michigan, that's where the child unfortunately died. And that was a facility that was not following the rules when it comes to how to operate a very specific type of chamber that they had there, which is a fully pressurized chamber with 100 % oxygen. And oxygen itself is flammable, okay?

100 % oxygen is quite flammable, but there are tons of clinics around this country, around the world that use 100 % oxygen without any issues at all,

It takes a significant amount of training. And the idea really with the safety is it's not just like a one-time thing. You're checking this chamber every month, every six months, every year, you're doing maintenance on the chambers, and they were missing all of those kinds of things at this particular facility. They were not doing maintenance on the chambers. And what we think happened is something got loose inside the chamber that was a part of the chamber itself that caused a spark.

And then that's why the unfortunate child died in there. So I have a number of facilities that I work with that use a hundred percent oxygen very, very safely. The key is that you want, if you're going to go to a place like that, it's actually honestly the most comfortable experience for a patient. You don't know if you've tried this or had this, but there's a place near me and in Colorado, I go in, I went in over the summer because I injured my calf. You just go in and you just turn and they put off, they closed the door and you pressurize and you just breathe normally because it's just a hundred percent oxygen. So it's a very comfortable experience.

But there's more risk associated. So you really want to make sure there's a medical director, there's a safety director. It's a good track record for the facility. So that's why that particular accident happened, as far as I'm aware. And I know they're still working on litigation and things like that. there's a, because you can't have, it's not a flammable environment unless there's a spark. So there has to be a spark of some sort. And so the other chamber is a little bit different. The other chamber was a pressurized chamber with air, but they had a mask on their face.

Dr. Scott Sherr (07:13.25)
There are about two atmospheres, which is a decent amount of oxygen, decent amount of pressure. And what I believe happened, this particular individual, wanting to stack things together, decided to put on some sort of device on his head, add two atmospheres, and that device sparked and caused him to die. This sort of kind of brings in the whole question of safety in the chambers. What's...

allowed in the chambers, what's not allowed. And this is a bit of a challenge because there's no great rules here. You'll see people like, know, Brian Johnson with his computer and like phone and like hanging out at 2.0. And I talked to the manufacturer, like we didn't tell him to do that. He's just doing it. But you know, it's, one of those things where overall the majority, mean, hyperbaric therapy has been around for a long time, medically for over a hundred years. There have been very few accidents overall.

And I'm actually surprised on some level that there aren't any more because there's tons of these chambers that are at people's homes all the time now. People don't really know what they're doing and they're bringing in cell phones and computers. And I had one guy, you'd like this story. He might even be listening to this. He's actually, I posted this online once and just as saying you shouldn't do this. And he actually follows me on Instagram and he's like, I stopped doing it doc. promise. I was like, sorry, I didn't mean to call you out in front of everybody. I didn't call your name, but so what this guy was doing was he was getting an X-Box installed.

inside his hyperbaric chamber. And I said to him, please do not do that. For two reasons. One, electrical. I have no idea if that's going to be safe. Number two, this is supposed to be a healing environment, ladies and gentlemen, right? It's not supposed to be a place where, a good example again for me is that I gave myself a concussion five or six years ago. It was a mild one. It was stupid. I hit my head against a wall when I was turning, you know, usual conti— not like— Super cool. Not super cool. And

Freddie Kimmel (08:56.152)
We're not doing a backflip. Cool.

Dr. Scott Sherr (09:00.59)
So I went into a local hyperbaric facility to get treated and I put on John Wick 2. Not a good movie to watch when you're in a hyperbaric chamber. Why? Because you're like this, because you're all sympathetically dominant. And this actually was a mind blowing moment for me. was like, this is why a lot of my patients aren't healing. They're watching this kind of crap or they're coming in because they're already so sympathetically dominant and they can't heal if you're already so clamped down.

So anyway, the safety part of things is a big deal. And I'm always very nuanced with my discussion here because every chamber is going to be different. Every chamber is going to have a different safety profile depending on what they've tested. Some of these chambers won't have any safety profile testing and they may make that up as well. So overall, I would say it's a very safe technology just knowing exactly what you're using it for, what the chamber is really ready for you to do, and just following within those guidelines.

Freddie Kimmel (09:52.686)
Yeah, the industry, as we said, has just exploded. Yeah. Even in the last four years, like the the idea that you could buy a hard shell chamber for under 50 grand, I see them online for 25 grand.

Dr. Scott Sherr (10:06.018)
Yeah, have a friend that just got one for 20. It's amazing to me. That goes to 2.0. And I'm like, is this thing gonna just break the first time you use it? But they're all over the market, you're right.

Freddie Kimmel (10:16.598)
Yeah, I would just say, you know, again, my heart is with everybody that's listening to this. Don't let your upgrade hyperbaric chamber be the thing that takes you out. Like, I would be so cautious because it takes one design flaw that you're not going to be you will not be aware of it. Yeah, you know, and I would just say that the that the education and nuance of a soft cell shell chamber to a hard shell to there's a million different types out there. Now. There's not a million

but there are a lot of different types of chambers that I have a friend as a company, they'll actually go build a square pressurized room. And so people can roll a wheelchair. Yeah, there's so many, so many different types now.

Dr. Scott Sherr (10:58.206)
It's really.

is a huge number on the market. It's very difficult to know what's safe, what's not safe. So you have to go with the company that you trust or an ecosystem that you trust as well if you're going to go to a facility, for example. So the one thing I always tell people that are listening about hyperbaric therapy is that really, if you're pressurizing a chamber, I don't care what kind of chamber it is, you probably shouldn't be bringing anything in there, maybe a phone, but that's as much as I would recommend doing unless you have the absolute clearance from the company that you

or using the chamber from. Because the phones are pretty safe these days, they're probably not gonna blow up or spark, but I don't know the exact chamber and I can't be absolutely, this is an absolute, but you shouldn't be trying like, I know people try to do, you know how this is too, Freddie, like, let me stack my lymphatic compression, let me stack my neurofeedback, let me stack my meditation, let me stack my red light, let me stack, you know, all these things on you at the same time while you're in the chamber. So I get it, but just don't, you know, like, let's just.

Keep it super simple in there. It's supposed to be a healing environment. Let's keep it that way.

Freddie Kimmel (12:00.342)
Yeah, you know, I'd say owning the conversation. don't like balancing the nervous system. I don't think that's real, but owning the conversation with where your nervous system sit. Things like, you know, again, everybody's tracking health right now. You can buy an aura ring at Target. Again, I'll go back. Target is on board with this human upgrade section. It's wild to me.

Dr. Scott Sherr (12:08.692)
Yeah, that's big.

Freddie Kimmel (12:22.486)
Well, there's not, but it's, there's a biohacker section. Now. It's amazing. It's amazing, but it just shows you the way that the pandemic shifted the public's desire to take their health into their own hands. Which thing people just want it. They like, want to feel good. I want to, I want to take some role of responsibility.

Dr. Scott Sherr (12:38.446)
thing that we saw.

Freddie Kimmel (12:46.968)
But I would, I would just argue where your nervous system sits, understand that conversation. Do I need to do eight things at once? I don't always see that work out. Well, I find one or two things can be paired very well, but then see what that body's responses. And guess what? Every there's no formula for people. It's always going to be different.

Dr. Scott Sherr (13:07.342)
Yeah, I find that such a big one because there's so many influencers and people out there that would tell you their stacks and their protocols. This is what I use for sleep. This is what I use for the morning. like, you are an influencer. You do not see people for a living. You have no idea what this is gonna do to anybody else other than you, right? And so this is where I see people get in trouble. It's like, I'm adding and adding and adding and things on because it sounds cool. Oh, this guy's talking about it this one's talking about it this researcher and this researcher and like it's this sort of pancake of stuff.

gets to be this big and then like, they come to see me, I'm like looking at a list of a hundred things and I go, where did this all start, man? Like, can we just get back to basics, you know? And so I think what most of us, and you talked about, you don't talk about nervous system regulation anymore or things like, you don't want to use that term because people don't understand it. But that's what we're talking about here. It's like, more people need to do less than more.

And that's hard for people because we always think it's gonna be the next thing that's gonna do the next amazing thing, right? But if you drop it down, what are the basic foundational things that you're doing on a daily basis? And then you have like a basic stack of supplements that you're taking maybe that's optimized to what you need. And then from there, you can play around, like try various things and see how it all goes. But the key is to have a foundational understanding, subtract all that stuff and see what's actually working. Then calm down, calm down.

Try to calm down. I don't tell people to calm down because that doesn't typically work, especially my wife, that's not something we say at my house.

Freddie Kimmel (14:36.184)
That is that, yeah, that's how you immediately turn your bed into a sofa.

Dr. Scott Sherr (14:39.63)
Indeed. Yeah, I have an eight year old son now. And he was funny. We were having this conversation like, Dad, what are the things that you don't say to women? And he has three older sisters, plus his mom. So four. The dog's a male, but he's basically acts like a female. He's you know, but I don't mean that in a bad way. He's a cute dog. anyway, so was like, Finn, that's his name. I was like, do not tell a woman ever to calm down. That was the first thing I said.

There's many other things that I did say, but that was the first thing that I said.

Freddie Kimmel (15:11.064)
brilliant. you know, I'm a I want to speak on the benefits of oxygen a little bit. I don't want to just red flag hyperbarics, but I

Dr. Scott Sherr (15:18.734)
That's great stuff, please,

Freddie Kimmel (15:20.702)
I do find that there is this and there will be a dividing line. And I always say that, what are you responsible for as a patient, as a citizen? And then what should you really allow to be in the hands of your guiding practitioner? Do you know what I mean? Because we're getting these really powerful tools. I mean, look at the peptides you can buy online now that are super strong signaling molecules, which my fear has always been that we blunt

the fact that I might have a tumor in my liver or my chronic fatigue is coming from a viral infection that's in my heart. You know, I want to listen to the signal, not suppress a signal.

Dr. Scott Sherr (16:00.022)
Or shift, it's a shift, but it's only a shift. It's not actually focusing on the foundational aspects.

Freddie Kimmel (16:05.516)
That's right. That's right. So at home, I'll tell you two things that I always feel good about a soft shell. A soft shell chamber because you're not dealing with that pressure. Okay, yeah. It's a much quicker out.

Dr. Scott Sherr (16:12.696)
Okay, tell me what I can

Freddie Kimmel (16:19.978)
You're dealing with an oxygen concentrator and usually a humidifier. Very safe. There's a high safety profile. And the idea that more is better with this hard shell pressure to atmospheres to there's a lot of conversation why 2.4 or 2.35 is better for Lyme disease. That's a different conversation. But I feel for just pressurized oxygen, epigenetic expression, a soft shell chamber is great for home users.

Dr. Scott Sherr (16:23.51)
safe.

Dr. Scott Sherr (16:48.398)
would say so too, I think my only nuance there is like what are your, actually your goals, right? And what are you looking for? I mean, when I think about the soft chambers, I do agree with you that they're very safe in general. People don't tend to feel bad when they get out of the chamber. They don't tend to have like a lot of oxidative load where, and what I mean by that is like the deeper you go, the more pressure you put on the body and on the lungs, the more oxygen that gets in the system, the more reactive oxygen species, the more free radicals that you make.

The more free radicals you make, the more the body needs to be able to neutralize those with its own antioxidant capacity. Antioxidants sort of neutralize free radicals. For many of the things that we've actually researched in hyperbaric therapy, the deeper pressures are better when it comes to wound healing, when it comes to radiation injury, when it comes to even longevity and some things sometimes in performance. That being said, clinically and anecdotally over the years, I use the mild chambers all the time for day-to-day operations, which is recovery, wellness.

jet lag, like those kinds of things can work really well, even from a brain perspective can really work really well as well. And they don't cause a lot of stress in the system. So often with people that are not as well optimized, if they want to try hyperbaric therapy, I often say, let's start off in mild pressures first and then see how you do and then kind of dive in deeper, maybe from there. But I agree with you that from a safety profile, it's very, good.

Freddie Kimmel (18:05.39)
The other thing that's come into my life as I started to use nano bubbled oxygen therapy in the last October, maybe and I've had a killer response with it. Sleep, I'd say that the tension index in my tissues, I'm using it's a it's I'm using this system called the bimini, which is creating

Dr. Scott Sherr (18:10.936)
Okay.

Dr. Scott Sherr (18:22.772)
Is or it inhaled?

Freddie Kimmel (18:29.262)
water stable nano bubbles. There's a scientist in Australia, his name is escaping me right now that they figure out how to do this both electrically and then through a mechanical filter. It's really like an agricultural technique to sterilize water. But they're able to take the nano bubble down to like 0.01 microns. It's absorbed through the quad. Bimini's done research with Rice University. They're also at UT. And they're just looking for absorption and oxygen. I popped that in my bathtub.

And I better recovery, better sleep, better pain. It's it's 25 minutes and I get complete saturation. Have you played around or looked at any of this body of research at all?

Dr. Scott Sherr (19:10.978)
haven't seen a lot of this yet. mean, I know a little bit about a product called the NanoV for example, that does work with these sort of redox pathways in a way that helps with inhaled, you can inhale a gas that helps with redox pathways. There's also, I've worked a little bit with inhaled hydrogen as well. So hydrogen inhalation, I've had some good experiences with that, along with even hydrogen tablets, but better with inhaled hydrogen for people that have more oxidative stress. It's an interesting world. I've always been a little suspect of how can things

work by the skin in oxygen for example like that's a bit interesting to me I know there's like there's hydrogen baths as well I haven't had a lot of experience with those yet but I'm not saying that they don't work I just don't have enough experience

Freddie Kimmel (19:52.854)
Yeah, it's very new. It's very new. The one thing I like about Bimini is they're putting into universities, and they're doing big university studies. So I'm always I'm always curious. I know Kayla Barnes, you're just out see she's got one over at her house. nice. Okay. you know, the thing for me that I'll also say is like, it's really easy to assume that I'm going to be like, get a get a chamber and I'm going to be in it four times a week and life is full these days. Yeah, I find that a lot of people don't end up using them.

because or like, it's the time it's it's it's it's does it fit into my lifestyle? Yeah. So that's that's always been my other thing that I just I offer people as consumers like really think about your life and think about do you have the time? Can you give us like if I were going to get a chamber? Yeah, sure. And I wanted to do pressurized oxygen therapy. How many times should I be doing it for benefit? And let's maybe look at a soft chamber because we're talking to a lot of consumers.

Dr. Scott Sherr (20:48.942)
Well, I think the way I would, I frame it in the same way, no matter the type of chamber you have, but the pressures will obviously be different depending on what you have. And also your goals matter, but in essence, this is the framework that I use. Pretty simple. You're doing an intensive protocol, let's say five days a week for a period of time, or you're doing more of a maintenance protocol, which is whichever you decide. One, two, three days a week, something like that. When you're on a maintenance schedule, it's always important that if you have a month of maintenance, at least one of those weeks out of the month, you do not go into the chamber.

The idea here is that you're taking a break when you're on maintenance, at least. And then the intensive hyperbaric program, how long those are depends on what your goals are a little bit. But in general, I have people think about anywhere between around 20 sessions to be more of an intensive protocol, five days a week, that's about a month or so. And then repeating an intensive protocol every six months to a year, depending on their health, depending on what they need. And then in between that, they finish their intensive

you know, month, they take maybe a couple of weeks off after that. And then they go into more of a maintenance mode and they go in maybe two, three days a week. If they can, they try to really, what I try to do with my patients is instruct them to use the chamber on days when they're going to leverage it the most. So say it's after like a long, a big workout, for example, where they just got off an airplane and they're trying to recover from jet lag or they feel like they're coming down with something to feel a bit off and fatigue, use it then that kind of thing. But the key is that when you're on more maintenance, trying to pair it with the things that you're going to be doing that day or that week.

You can even use it before exercise, for example, and use it as a boost for when you exercise after going to the chamber. So there's all different options like that, depending on what you need. And that's kind how I have it with people go, is you go six months intensive, every six months, every year, depending on the person, then in between two or three days a week and trying to pair those sessions to what you need. And then those protocols can change depending on the person and what exactly is going on. If there's a very specific goal, then you can say, okay, well, I'm going...

I'm to do something different. don't know if I'm going to do, hike up a huge mountain or something. Something like that, right? Like there's all even protocols you can think about depending on situation, but that's the essence of what I tell my patients, people that I work with. But throughout that process, the deeper the pressure chamber you have, the more it's important to be measuring what's going on intracellularly in your cells themselves, in your tissue.

Freddie Kimmel (22:50.92)
I'm gonna do Kilimanjaro.

Dr. Scott Sherr (23:11.544)
How are your inflammatory markers? How are your markers for oxidative stress? How are your vitamins, minerals, and nutrients? Because if you're flooding the body with more oxygen, even in a mild chamber, you are revving up the capacity to make energy. Cool. Yet you're also revving up the need for all the vitamins, minerals, and nutrients to make energy as well and to detox from the energy that you make. Because you know energy production is not free. It's like a gasoline-powered car in those cells of ours.

We have mitochondria that make energy, right? We make ATP, we make water, we make carbon dioxide, we make those reactive oxygen species as well. That's like your rusting of the system. Now we have antioxidants that neutralize that, but over time, with regular life, most of us are depleting this, are having mitochondrial dysfunction. So certainly in a chamber, you have to watch out for accelerating that process. And that typically is symptomatic, which what I mean by that is usually what'll happen

is at some point if you're doing too much, instead of feeling good when you get out of the chamber, you start feeling not so good. Like you're feeling, oh, I don't feel so good after going out of the chamber. Like, why am I feeling groggy? Am I sleeping a little bit worse? This can happen more when people, like I had somebody a couple years ago that said, yeah, I did hyperbaric therapy every day for a year. I'm like, well, how did you feel? She's like, well, I felt great for the first six months. I'm like, then after that, it didn't feel so good. I'm like, well. Yeah. And this is a soft chamber, right? So even in a soft chamber, especially in somebody that has more

overall inflammatory stress, oxidative stress, you have to be more mindful of that. So I think it's what I've learned over the years is that you have to mind mitochondrial function, right? Mind the capacity for you to make energy effectively and also address the detox needs you after you make your energy as well.

Freddie Kimmel (24:51.436)
Yeah, it's a great pivot. So if we're talking about mitochondrial health and measuring the mitochondria, is there a diagnostic profile test that you love for looking at the health of mitochondria?

Dr. Scott Sherr (25:06.924)
It's a great question. So there's only one gold standard way of measuring mitochondrial testing. Do know what this is? Muscle biopsy. Actually, so taking a biopsy of somebody's muscle, putting it on a microscope, and taking a look at it. That's the only, that's the gold standard. But not many of us are gonna be going and doing that, right? So when you look at other types of ways of measuring mitochondrial function.

Freddie Kimmel (25:12.136)
You're gonna tell me.

Dr. Scott Sherr (25:28.994)
There are lot of things that are on the market now. There are direct mitochondrial function testing that's happening now. There's also sort of more indirect testing, which is what I use in clinical practice. The direct testing are these newer tests that are purporting to give you an exact understanding of the intricacies of the mitochondria and understanding where there might be blockages, where there might be deficiencies, what you need to do. These are not quite ready for prime time yet. There is one company...

called MeScreen that I just heard of recently that a good friend of mine and colleague really likes. And it's one of those tests that is purporting to give you direct mitochondrial function. What I do in clinical practice is I use something called organic acid testing, which I know you've probably heard of. Organic acid testing is a suite of testing numbers that you get or testing measurements you get that give you a sense of how well

you are making energy by looking at all the intermediates, the steps along the way that are required for you to make energy. So what are all these intermediate biochemistry molecules that you need to get to making ATP? Looking at signs of oxidative stress, signs of inflammation, signs of B vitamin deficiencies and toxicities and things like that. So I use something called a metabolomic testing, which is this fancy word for like studying the metabolism in the cells, real time.

using measurements that you can get with a regular blood test or even urine can get a lot from them as well. So that's what I use. Clinically though, mean the statistics are kind of crazy. It's like around 94 % of US adults have some element of mitochondrial dysfunction. 94%, yeah. So that's a spectrum. Not everybody has severely dysfunctional mitochondria. Not everybody has, you you get what I mean, right? And so that 6 %...

Freddie Kimmel (27:01.038)
94 percent.

Dr. Scott Sherr (27:11.008)
of metabolically healthy, mitochondrial healthy, is a small percentage. And how do you know where you are in this? so clinically, I can usually tell where somebody is. I mean, if they're pretty well optimized, they're pretty resilient. Like they go on an airplane, then the next day they feel fine. They change time zones. Yeah, they have a little bit of, but it doesn't take that long. Or they exercise, they recover pretty well. They go to the gym, they don't get injured very often. Their mood's pretty stable. They have a pretty stable way of exercising, and they haven't had to modify things.

And they're getting good sleep, How often do you hear about those things being? So that's the thing, right? And so what I see with mitochondrial dysfunction, a lot of brain fog, a lot of mental health issues. Infertility is a big one, too, actually, because the most mitochondria per cell are in your eggs, if you're female, and sperm if you're male. A lot of energy demand making babies, OK? Yeah. Especially for the female, as we know.

Freddie Kimmel (28:08.75)
It's like that high quality biological material to go make the new life. But it's such a smart body when you think about it, the body's like, well, that's, I'm scared right now. Why am I going to give that resource over there? I'm actually going to focus on my endothelial function.

Dr. Scott Sherr (28:12.746)
and that's why we have the most mitochondria per cell there for females.

Dr. Scott Sherr (28:26.818)
Yeah, exactly.

Freddie Kimmel (28:28.168)
sense. disease makes sense. I know people hate to I'm like, yeah, when I'm like, it's this is actually perfect. This is the disease you should have given your genetic blueprint, given your lifestyle, given your symptoms right now. Yes, perfect little storm that that we've created that if you if you say we've done it for me, that's empowering because now I can go make changes. Right.

Dr. Scott Sherr (28:48.014)
Exactly, and if you can give people like a, people love stories, right? But it's a story of why, people love the why, and I get that, and I think that's important too, is if you say, look, there's thousands of mitochondria per cell in the ovaries and the sperm, thousands in the brain, then the heart, then the liver, then the muscle, skeletal tissue, this should make sense to you, right? Fertility rates, they're not going up, they're going down, right? Brain function.

massive deteriorations, neuro degeneration. was talking to another colleague just recently about these particular cells in their brain called microglia.

which are these cells in our brain that are basically your macrophages, immune cells in your brain. And we talked about how there's two states. This is David Proemutter's work. And two states of the microglia, and either they're going to cause inflammation, cause a lot of destruction, they are the reason for neurodegeneration, or they could be the opposite and really keep you healthy. And what it comes down to, how they work, is how their mitochondria are functioning. If the mitochondria are optimized, they're happy. If the mitochondria are not optimized, unhappy, right? Doesn't mean you still have to figure out what's the reason.

behind their mitochondrial dysfunction. But if you think about it, it's like, holy crap, no matter what cell we're talking about, whether it be immune, brain, like a neuron, know, oocyte, you the egg, sperm, liver cell, hepatocyte, like if you don't have enough energy to detox, you can't detox. Doesn't matter what you try. You you're gonna feel terrible. And this is what happens with lot of detox protocols. You know this, right? You can give somebody antioxidants up the wazoo.

binders up to wazoo, but they'll still feel terrible if they don't have enough capacity to make energy. Right. And so this is what I'm always thinking about is, is mitochondrial function, mitochondrial health. And this has been now the basis of everything that I do. And hyperbaric therapy really was that inflection point to go, okay, this is really where I need to really focus with people to see the long-term really come out the way we want. all.

Freddie Kimmel (30:37.389)
Yeah.

And this isn't a two week protocol. Like I always, I'm reminded at the complexity of these systems that you're talking about right now, foundational things that need to be in place. You know, I see a lot of disease being a trade off to the comforts of modern living that they're, like you said in the beginning, energy's not free. It ain't, it ain't free. So there's things like water and sunlight and clean air that are going to be great terrain builders that we choose to stay inside.

day, we don't take any steps. You know, sympathetic dominance, look at your aura ring, what's your respiratory rate? If it's like 22, you know, we're shallow, poor breathers. And so we've got all these things are going to play into disease.

because you're focused on mitochondrial health and this is the work you're doing. I know this is one reason why you work with the center of our table here. Yes, sir. Yes, for sure. Tero descriptions and methylene blue. Now, another thing that I really want to bring up and I think I texted you about this. was driving out to Las Vegas for A4M. Okay. Listen to Joe Rogan and Chris Masterjohn.

Yes. Yeah. Chris proceeds to just throw out the red flag on methylene blue and says, you know, how detrimental it can be to the body. Yeah. So I want to talk about that, but first I want to address. Methylene blue. Let's just do a revisit because again, I had my friends at biohacker babes are on the New York post, you know, influencers recommending fish antibiotics.

Dr. Scott Sherr (32:12.332)
Yeah, it was biohackers drinking fish tank cleaner to reverse their age. That's right. It was a great headline. Six months into the pandemic. was it was great. It was great. We've come a long way. We've come a long way. But then we've actually sort of circled, which is interesting. In fact, Chris Masterjohn was almost the the bookend on some level of the.

Freddie Kimmel (32:18.702)
great headline from the New York Post.

Dr. Scott Sherr (32:32.974)
hyper excitement about Methylene Blue, which is because it started off with Joe Rogan actually on his podcast a year prior, like in January of 2025. He was talking about it with Mel Gibson actually, who's also kind of crazy, but that's a different story. Not just him, but was another guy that was talking about using it for seizures. And so, I mean, you know, we've been doing this a long time since.

Freddie Kimmel (32:47.596)
Yeah, he's intense.

Freddie Kimmel (32:54.702)
long time you guys have been in the long

Dr. Scott Sherr (32:56.534)
So we are the first company to come out with a commercial product back in 2020. So first company in February, 2020. So one month before the pandemic. we've learned a lot over the last I know, crazy. Yeah, crazy timing. We learned a lot over the last six years. And certainly one of the main guys that

Freddie Kimmel (33:06.252)
timing.

Dr. Scott Sherr (33:18.284)
was very helpful in helping me understand biochemistry of methylene blue was actually Chris Masterjohn. He did a great piece like three or four years ago talking about methylene blue and the biochemistry of it. But his conclusions are the pure conclusions of a researcher that has no fucking clue what he's talking about when it comes to actually working with patients. And that's what it comes down to because in his conclusion, he said,

Methylene blue is a fantastic mitochondrial support. It helps with energy, it helps with detox, but you shouldn't take it unless you have a mitochondrial disease. I was like, okay, wait a second. You know that most people have mitochondrial dysfunction, right? Do you think that it could potentially be helpful for some of those people that have mitochondrial dysfunction? And in sort of in corollary to that is like the dosing, the frequency.

These are things that he would never know because he's not a clinician, right? And so his biochemistry is spot on. He does a great job talking about how methane can come in on the electron transport chain in the mitochondria and bypass places that are blocked. And you can make more energy. It comes in more like an electric power car because it helps with both the energy side and it can also work directly as an antioxidant. So it can help with the detox as well. It's called a redox cycler. Hydrogen is the same way, actually. And so.

That all made sense to me. And then he even wrote another paper before he went on Rogan talking about how you can actually use methylene blue on an airplane because you're under hypoxic conditions on an airplane, right? You're pressurized to 8,000 feet above sea level. So you're hypoxic and methylene blue can help with compensating for that. It can help act just like oxygen. It can help mop up free free electrons and free radicals, UV radiation, blah, blah, blah. So he even said that in a paper, but he didn't talk about that on Rogan. His main thing.

was that if you're metabolically healthy, if you're mitochondrally healthy, you should not take methylene. That's his argument. That was Paul Saladino's argument, who came out with a paper, or it came out with a YouTube that I... YouTube. Yeah, he came out with a video that I systematically went through, and every single point was wrong. I'm another guy that's never practiced medicine, that's never seen patients. No, get off my high horse.

Freddie Kimmel (35:29.762)
No, no, no, but but I think that's really important just to bookmark that is that we are we people I've said this from day one, and it really is 100 fold. We're drowning in information and opinions from you know, from Paul Saladino to rich roll. You know, you got both ends of the spectrum, you can be a vegan and be healthy, you can be a carnivore and be healthy. And who's lost in the middle and who loses is general population. Yeah,

Dr. Scott Sherr (35:56.558)
consumer just doesn't know what to do, right? But we have this is interesting energy question or energy perspective is that when our brains don't have enough energy to work, they're going to much more thinking black and white. So it's much easier for you to get lopped on to one of these extremes because it's easier. It's easier for your brain's energy capacity. So if you're already not meeting your energy demands and you have brain fog, concentration issues, you're depressed, or whatever, you see this, it's like, that's easy. that's easy.

is there a middle ground? That's too hard. You know, because your brain needs more energy to be able to do that.

Freddie Kimmel (36:31.246)
Also, like, and I say this all the time, that it is a marketing technique to create an element of fear on how this thing is going to hurt you. But then you have to be careful if they're immediately selling you the solution right after the fear porn. That's a red flag. Do you know what mean? There's there's very little language about the curiosity mechanisms of action. Could this be right for me for you or for somebody in my family?

Dr. Scott Sherr (36:35.672)
Sorry.

Dr. Scott Sherr (36:57.484)
Right. In the end, we commoditize everything here in the United States. I mean, we're really good at finding like this unique ingredient from the Amazon and then making it this entire, it's all you need to take or whatever it might be. And that's what we do. That's what Americans do. We've exported that throughout the whole world. And Chris has got his own company. He's got his own test. Obviously Paul has his own company, has his own stuff.

Freddie Kimmel (37:01.218)
Everything. Every skill.

Dr. Scott Sherr (37:21.302)
And I have my own company too, right? But I totally understand that piece. for me, when it came down to the Methylene Blue argument, the one that was the most interesting to me was, well, should you take Methylene Blue if you're metabolically healthy? And I said, well, first of all, 94 % of the US adults are not. Moot point. Move on. Methylene Blue can be helpful in these individuals. Not all the time, but lower doses from a clean source.

can restart and jumpstart the mitochondria. So energy production goes up, detox goes up, and so if you're at like letter A of the alphabet, you gotta go to Z, it's a long way, right? But if you can get from A to like H or I with a little bit of methylene blue, that's gonna be a huge jumpstart. And that's what I see in practice. I see that.

You started here, low doses, and all of a sudden, you're just able to skip a whole bunch of steps that you would have taken months to get them there if you were just waiting for the vitamins, minerals, nutrients, fancy technologies to start working and doing, even hyperbaric therapy. So even hyperbaric therapy is not one of those things that I usually recommend starting when somebody's at point A, B, C on their path to trying to get to Z. mean, there's no end to the path, but you get what I mean, right? That's right. And so for me, it's like that argument about methylene blue.

being just not good for metabolic healthy people has to start there, which is that most people are not. Now if you are metabolic healthy, if you are relatively well optimized, then you shouldn't be taking it all the time. You don't need it. But if you're doing more stress, like you're doing endurance work, you're going on an airplane we talked about earlier, you think somebody's sick at the house and you want to use it as a prophylactic, it works for that. It works for all those things. I've done it, I have guys that I work with that are athletes.

they don't want anybody to know they're using it because their endurance goes up dramatically. Their urine's still blue, but they swallow the methylene blue so nobody knows their mouth is blue. Nobody knows they've taken it, right? And so when you take methylene blue, it concentrates in the urine.

Freddie Kimmel (39:10.796)
that my last lab like flagged my urine. It was green. Nice.

Dr. Scott Sherr (39:14.926)
Yeah, there you go, that's what happens. Yeah, it can mess with some of the adolites in the urine. So if you're doing a urine test, don't take your Methylene Blue 24 hours ahead of time. It won't come out positive on a talk screen or anything like that, but it'll make it harder for them to interpret labs. So if you're metabolically healthy, you don't need to be taking Methylene Blue all the time. But I'll give you a good example. worked with guy that did the Leadville Ultramarathon where I live. It's 100 miles Ultramarathon. The dude...

Shaved three hours off of his time, taking methylene blue, 32 milligrams every four hours. That's not a huge dose, but that's a higher dose than it would give the average consumer, average person for sure. The average dose that I use for most people is somewhere between eight milligrams to about 25 milligrams. But the sweet spot for most people I find is between eight and 16 milligrams.

Freddie Kimmel (39:47.79)
pretty high dose,

Dr. Scott Sherr (40:02.518)
That's the dose that typically, so the thing about it not like you're waiting for something to happen 30 days in the future. When you find the right dose, you should know within about three days, five days max. And if you don't have an effect there, keep going up. See where you have that effect and you'll know it. It's not, if you're pretty well optimized, like if you're on that spectrum where you have a little bit of mitochondrial dysfunction.

It might be pretty subtle, like for you or me. The way I feel it is that I take it, the energy just kind of goes up here. It's not like I'm stimulated, it's more like I'm just elevated. Then I go for longer like this. My brain is just cleaner, functions for longer. I don't feel like my mood is any, any, any labile, like in the afternoons, for example.

Like I know I've had a long day of like one of my kids like knocks on my door at 330 when they get home and I go, I give them a look. I'm like, okay, you know, it's not them. It's me, right? And then you're tired. Exactly. Right. And this is what I talk to people about all the time. It's like, especially if you're a parent as I am, if your kid is yelling at you, if you yell back, it's on you.

And then unless they're like in danger or like, you know, somebody is going to hurt themselves or something like that, that's an energy issue oftentimes for you as a parent. And that's reasonable. Like parents are, you know, it's hard to be a parent. I have four of them. You know, it's not, I mean, especially when they were young. Now it's a different type of energy. When I have like two teenagers and, know, two and two and two other ones that are not quite there yet, but you get what I mean, right? Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (41:24.184)
heard. I've heard. No, my best friend has a bunch of kids. I get to be an I and I'm an uncle. Yeah, I see what it's like to be in that environment for three to four days. And I'm always like, my goodness, bless your heart.

Dr. Scott Sherr (41:38.968)
Bless indeed. And the thing about it is actually was my biggest first teacher was having children because I was the first learned that I didn't have control of everything.

You know, and then when you start going, okay, maybe I don't have control of everything anymore. Maybe I can't keep pushing and pushing. Maybe I have to actually, as I said in the beginning, start subtracting shit and taking things out. That's been hard for me. I mean, it's hard for a lot of us that are in this field because I'm really good at scheduling my time. I'm really good at staying busy. But down-regulating that nervous system stuff that we talked about, that's a huge part of mitochondrial function too, right? If you don't have...

the capacity to drop out of sympathetic, there's no healing, there's no mitochondrial optimization that you can expect. And like it's the one time that I agree with our conventional doctor friends that'll say, those supplements you're taking, that's just giving yourself expensive urine, that's all. And I go, yeah, if you're sympathetically dominant and clamped down like this, there's nothing, there's no detox, there's no healing, there's no digestion, none of that's happening until you come out of that sympathetic fight or flight, right?

Freddie Kimmel (42:42.37)
Yeah, let me ask you this because we do live in a world with again so many options you we mentioned Molecular hydrogen we've got methylene blue. We've got oxygen chambers. We got red light therapy. How are you testing somebody? Looking at their terrain to know that this again will on the word longevity that they are aging better that there's less terrain damage That appears from a cellular level that things are going in the right direction

Is there a test that you like to look at that? I know there's things like True Diagnostic, which has like an epigenetic age. I have a paper that I'm writing on the Dunedin PACE, which is a cohort of people. They're studying there. And for me, if you're going to look at the rate of aging, that's the cohort to look at. Is there anything you like to look at?

Dr. Scott Sherr (43:32.502)
The well studied right now is that your diagnostic company and like that I don't know ever say that's a Dundon age pace or whatever.

Freddie Kimmel (43:38.03)
It's Dunedin. I say Dunedin. I don't know how it is. You know, it's a town in New Zealand. Yeah, it is. I know it's a town in New Zealand. forget how to speak. And there's a Dunedin Florida as well.

Dr. Scott Sherr (43:44.94)
Yeah, yeah. So I like that company. I like that test. I've done that test myself and I've used it with clients. I think there's something there. There's a lot of different tests out there. There's epigenetic age testing, which is where that true diagnostic fits in. There's new things that are coming out with immune system age, which I think is really interesting.

That's kind of what I was, I'm thinking might be a better overall. And then there's also looking at the various ages of organs, like not every organ ages at the same rate as well, and how you can test that and see that. So it's kind of an interesting science, because...

I was talking to a friend of mine who's an epigenetic researcher. Her name was Lucia. And she's like, Scott, I could decrease my mom's epigenetic age by two to three years by putting her on a vegan diet for six months. Then she gets sacropenic. She'd fall, break her hip, and she would die if she's 85 years old. And so you have to think about these things in context. I think sometimes, as you know, people will just chase numbers. Chase.

like you want to see your number go down. So if it's going to be going on a certain diet for a year, there might be repercussions otherwise, but yeah, you brought your age down for two to four years. that only the market you want to be looking at there, right? It doesn't negate you getting hit by a bus, of course, or breaking a hip or something like that. So I think of these things in context. I think that it's very important when we talk to people that we talk about them that way. But immunosensence, the idea that the immune system and its age,

and how that's playing in, think that's a really new area that I'm, I mean, every, I mean, almost all, like every colleague that I've spoken to in the last, oh, like maybe 90 % of them in the last couple of months, has said something about, I'm really interested in the immune system and how it's aging. I'm really interested in immune resilience. I'm really interested in immunosensence. Something called inflammation, the inflammation, the idea that we age because of inflammation. like, okay, this is something that we're gonna do. This is gonna be my topic for 2026. I need to really dig into this. So.

Dr. Scott Sherr (45:37.166)
What I do with people, as I think you know, is like, it's a holistic picture here, right? Because you can't just go by numbers, even by your freaking O-ring. Like if your O-ring says that you slept shitty, but you feel great, what do you listen to? You're O-ring, right? I mean, but it's about looking at it in totality, right? How are you doing overall? How are you optimizing in holistic way? How do you feel? And then looking at some numbers over time can be really helpful. Looking at your gut over time, looking at your cellular capacity, looking at your inflammation numbers. These are really, really helpful.

It's not just about the numbers, you know? And I think that's really important because people are all so different. And so somebody could feel great at a certain level of something and somebody else may not. And then you have to be aware of that. So it's like, it can't be cookie cutters when it comes down.

Freddie Kimmel (46:21.302)
Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I really do. I join with you. It's just, it's there's so many ways to look at the body, but we have to contextualize. And you know, it's, really is. It's interesting again, with all these tests that are coming out, the like, the more I lean into is like, how do I feel? How is my sex drive? How's my strength in the gym? What's my pain when I get out of bed in the morning? Did I wake up to urinate? I mean, basic, basic stuff, but you know, it's these don't lie.

Dr. Scott Sherr (46:51.842)
No, I think you've said it exactly how I think about it. I'm always looking for these metrics that I can follow over time, but so much of this is subjective. So much. how do you feel, and how is your day-to-day operations? Yeah. Are these OK? If they're not OK, then we have to think about what we need to differently, right? And then again, it's always about a path. You're not always going to have amazing days all the time. It's going to be harder some other days. How well do you bounce back? How often are you getting sick? How often are you getting anxious? How often are you?

able to get down into that parasympathetic nervous system, right? These are all barometers. So when I'm talking to patients, as you can imagine, like I've been doing this long enough that within the first five minutes is generous. Within the first 30 seconds to a minute, usually I know how somebody's doing. And then I can kind of tell where we need to go from there. Like it may not be exact, but like you can tell when their stress response is overloaded. You can tell when they haven't been sleeping. You can tell when they're having arguments with their spouse. can tell, know, long-term relationships with patients is great for this. And then it can be...

But it's always gonna like, as a clinician, it's always interesting how you approach them and how you kinda, but as you know people longer, you can kinda say, okay, what's going on, you know? But in the beginning, you gotta be like, okay.

Freddie Kimmel (48:00.236)
Yeah, I'll add one thing and I know we got to be mindful of time because you got to get off and you got to do promo for a webinar. but I was texting a friend yesterday and we were talking about the mind she was like, my god, she's like, it's your greatest asset. It's your greatest liability. She's like, that's the paradox. You it is. And this came up again the other day when we were talking on on a an event we're planning for 2026. We were talking about fertility and the fertility crisis in libido and this doctor was like, my clients are terrible. Can we go into this? He's like, What's

Dr. Scott Sherr (48:16.962)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (48:30.16)
going on and I was just like, and I have a Venn diagram on my computer about like the dopamine chart. I'm like, if you want to play a game with your client, and you want to just measure the screen time on the phone, if you were to take away two and two to four hours of the dopamine reward, every single day at the end of the month, your sex drive, you will be tuning in to different energies in the home. Because I think this is so powerful. And I only can tell you from my own experience that

it, it, it, it, there's nothing great here for me in this phone. I'm gesturing to the phone, everybody. there's nothing great here for me, but it will win the war for my attention every time, unless I've journaled or written out, what do I want for my day today? And I have to have a target without it. This is going to win because it's so powerful.

Dr. Scott Sherr (49:21.462)
It is the most powerfully addictive thing that's ever been invented other than maybe cocaine. I don't know, but it's, close because, you know, sugar is as addictive as cocaine. These things have to be close to it as well. And I feel like you have to have parameters. Like you said, you have to have ways of kind of creating a container for you so that you can find a way to use it appropriately within, you know, take away time as well. you know, taking away your phone on the weekends, at least several hours. mean, it's, I mean, for me, it's even as simple as

leaving my phone in a different room is like a very different feeling as opposed to having it right next to me. Even if the phone is on airplane mode, it's not enough. These have to be completely off if it's near me or it has to be in different room that I can't reach it. And that's when things start changing. You'll notice this as you're thinking about it, but this is a big sympathetic activator for all of us. It's doom scrolling. It's like getting really emotionally charged about things. This, especially before you go to bed, is like the worst thing you can do. And for me, I'm always like, okay, let's...

downregulate the nervous system, let's stop doing this stuff, let's find more ways to do this that's gonna be more functional for you, and then you will regain a lot more time and your attention will come back, which some of us, all of us, most of us these days have forgotten what that is.

Freddie Kimmel (50:37.068)
Yeah, I want to give a plug to transcriptions. And we have some samples here on the table, which you guys can't take from the podcast. However, if people go to is it transcriptions.com? Yep. Yeah. You can check out all the products they offer. Now there's methylene blue and there are now this is totally new. There are transcriptions for sleep for nervous system regulation for calm.

Dr. Scott Sherr (50:58.338)
Yeah. So we have one called true calm for anxiety and stress reduction during the day. Fantastic. We have one called true Z for asleep. It's an eight ingredient comprehensive formula, probably the most comprehensive formula out there for sleep. hits the GABA receptor as serotonin melatonin and denisine and on end to the endocannabinoid system all at the same time with different ingredients, eight different ingredients. And then we have something called true immune, which is for immune system activation. It's great as an antimicrobial.

It's also an anti-inflammatory antioxidant and increases deep sleep. So full suite of products, energy, methylene blue, focus with something called blue canatein. Our pure methylene blue is called Jess Blue. And then we have our Trocom, Trozee, and Tromium. Yeah, so those are our products. And it's a whole suite. But the goal, as you know, Freddie, is like, these are great ways to help people now, as I was mentioning. But over the long term, I hope you need this stuff less if you're truly working on optimizing your foundational biology.

That's what we have the nonprofit to help do. We train other practitioners on how to do it. The goal is that over time you use these things as needed. Like going on an airplane, take some methylene blue. Take some TROCOM if you need to, if you get anxious about being on planes. If you're feeling like you're coming down with something, take some TRO-MUNE, take it at night. My wife who listens to nothing that I say will take TRO-MUNE at night if she's not feeling well.

These things can change a marriage in a good way. So all of our products will change your marriage, change your life, make you feel better. But over the long term, do the hard work, do the simple things, do the foundational stuff.

Freddie Kimmel (52:21.28)
I love it. love it. Thank you for being a guest on the beautifully broken podcast. We'll do it again. Big love.

Dr. Scott Sherr (52:24.686)
Beautiful to see you, man.