The Cold Cure: Thermogenesis, Cancer Research, and Mental Resilience with Thomas Seager, PhD

WELCOME TO EPISODE 234

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

0:00
The cold, there are three mechanisms by which it will help you fight cancer.
The first one is metabolic.
And this is an extensive, a very clever study coming out of Sweden where they showed that brown fat will preferentially clear glucose from the bloodstream and starve tumor cells of the glucose that it needs to survive.
0:21
So they took mice periodically, that is about four hours a day, mild cold exposure, enough to activate the brown fat.
And these mice in which tumors had been implanted, the tumors grew slower than in the control group, the mice lived longer.
So the first one is starvation of the tumor from the glucose that it needs by clearing that glucose into the brown fat.
0:45
Welcome to the Beautifully Broken podcast.
I'm your host Freddie Kimmel, and on the show we explore the survivor's journey, practitioners making a difference, and the therapeutic treatments and transformational technology that allow the body to heal itself.
1:01
Witness the inspiration we gain by navigating the human experience with grace, humility, and a healthy dose of mistakes.
Because part of being human is being beautifully broken.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Beautifully Broken podcast.
1:20
Our long-awaited guest, Thomas Seger, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me here, Freddie.
What a treat.
Well, yeah, yeah, we've been talking about this for too long, it seems.
But I've learned a lot since we first had this idea, so maybe it'll be better.
You had mentioned to me you'd recently stepped away and you had leaned into research.
1:42
The job I have at Arizona State is teaching 3 courses a year.
It's typical at a big research university that the faculty spend more of their time and effort doing research than they do doing teaching.
So I teach these three undergraduate engineering courses at ASU and most of my focus is on creating new knowledge.
2:04
But the last couple of years, I'm no longer working in civil engineering and concrete and steel.
I'm much more concerned about health.
As you can imagine, the crisis that was created by the COVID lockdowns has caused me to change the direction of my career.
2:23
So I just published a book, Uncommon Cold, that came out last year.
It's bigger than my dissertation.
It's got like 500 scientific citations in it.
It's the definitive accompaniment, scientific accompaniment to ice bath or cold plunge therapy.
2:41
There's chapters on cancer and testosterone and diabetes and all the the myriad of health implications for doing a cold plunge practice.
And I'm doing another one coming out at Cryo Con in April 2025.
2:56
We're going to launch this book called Uncommon Testosterone.
So how do you use cold plunge to balance your sex hormones, improve your sexual performance, fertility in your romantic life?
And in there is some about the interaction between testosterone and prostate cancer, which is how I got curious about it.
3:17
Tom, I I got to ask you before we jump into the world of ice and ice baths as a practice, deliberate cold exposure, what prompted you to 1st in your life get in a freezing tub of ice?
What was the madness that took over the human terrain?
3:33
The madness was divorce.
I was in a situation in my life where I was morbidly obese.
I was deeply in debt, my career was going nowhere, and my wife said she was unhappy and she wanted to move back to New York.
So I figured I got to figure some things out.
3:52
I got to make some changes, lost a lot of weight, started changing the way that I eat and the way that I exercise and.
My wife and I.
Decided to separate anyway.
I'm now divorced, but it was sort of a slow motion divorce in our life.
4:09
So I was living alone, reading everything about self help, Wellness, relationships, trying to educate myself on where I had gone wrong in my life.
And one of those books said, you really got to take cold showers, it'll toughen you up.
4:27
Said OK, I got to get tougher, you know, I'll start taking cold showers.
And I hated every single cold shower I'd ever taken.
And Freddie, they're not even that cold.
I live in Phoenix, AZ.
It's the hottest city in North America, you know, and during the winter, the tap water is.
4:44
Probably in the 60s.
It's like the wimpiest kind of cold shower.
And I'm in there swearing up a storm because cold showers make me angry.
But one of my former.
Students.
Jason Stauffer, he said.
Well.
How about an ICE?
Bath, you know, have you ever done Vim Hoff?
4:59
And I've never heard about any of this stuff, but I went to one of these Vim Hoff style events I got into, you know?
Up to my neck.
In ice water, totally different because the ice water, I mean, it will Rev you up at first, but when the dive reflex kicks in, it calms you down, it puts your brain into a meditative state, It slows down your heart rate.
5:22
And I'm like, well, this is great.
So, you know, we started doing ice baths for fun.
But then I got a lab.
Back this is a, you know, a comprehensive lab panel.
I'm like, I should know what my lipids are and I should know what all my male health markers are and stuff like this and on.
5:41
There was a prostate specific antigen test.
So PSA, I'm in my early 50s at this time.
And it's kind of the.
Routine thing that men, you know, I'm going to call myself middle-aged at that time that they're supposed to do.
And my PSA came back seven point O, which is elevated.
6:00
Anything under four they would have said, well, that's normal, that's barely common and you're fine, but it's seven point O.
Big red letters out of range too.
High on my lab report.
So I had to go to the Internet and find out what that meant.
I had no idea.
6:16
It took me like 20 minutes on Web MD to become convinced that I was going to die of cancer.
Because that's the way the Internet works.
You know, you start like, doing your own research in the catastrophic mind takes over.
And I know the PSA is unreliable.
It indicates inflammation.
6:32
It doesn't indicate cancer.
But I started reading, you know what?
A man in his early 50s who's, you know, got a history of being overweight and what are we supposed to do?
Wow.
You're supposed to go have a prostate exam, of course, but that's going to show inflammation.
6:48
I already know that.
And once they find inflammation in the prostate exam, they're going to say, well, I want to do a biopsy.
And the biopsy means they have to remove 16 tissue samples from the prostate.
And the next thing you read that these tissue samples that get tested for cancer have a very high rate of false positives.
7:07
So if, say, six or seven out of the 16 come out positive for cancer, do you have the cancer or do you not have the well, you don't really know, but just to be sure, we're going to take your prostate out.
How does that sound?
Professor Seeger?
I started talking to other guys about their experiences with hyperplasia or PSA or whatever.
7:27
And a series of nightmare stories were coming back to me about the pain of the biopsy, about the risks of the false positive, about the family members who were imploring these men to have the prostatectomy just to be safe.
And then the urinary incontinence and the lifetime of erectile dysfunction that followed so.
7:50
I had a.
Choice in my imagination, you know, I don't know if I ever had cancer.
All I had.
Was an inflamed prostate.
But in my imagination, I had this choice between my life or my penis and I chose my penis because at that point, what woman was ever going to love me if I couldn't get a hard on, you know, on the road to divorce from my wife.
8:15
Re evaluating everything in my life and I said I've got to find another way.
It felt like one way or another, either my life was going to be over or my sex.
Life was going to be over if I didn't figure this out.
So I bought a big old Kenmore Sears chest freezer, you know, and I put it out on my balcony and I got in that thing every single day because I was scared.
8:41
And when I got out, of course I was cold and you know, I had to do some warm up exercises and then I got to walk into campus and teach my classes and things like that.
It took me 4 months before I had the guts to retest because the last thing you want is to really know.
8:58
I mean, you need to know, but there's also a fear of knowing.
So I go back to the lab, have them draw.
Blood.
And I'm like, I don't know what's going to happen. 1.8 my prostate specific antigen had come down from 7 to 1.8.
9:14
And that means I was no longer at any elevated risk.
But when you do the whole male health panel, they also measure testosterone.
And the first time I was in the mid 7 hundreds, which any doctor would have said you're doing great.
You know, look at you, your age, you know, you're so.
9:32
Healthy or something like that.
My testosterone went up to 1180 nanograms per Dec liter.
And there it was on my lab report in red letters, out of range, too high, because for a fat guy in his 50s to have 1180 nanograms per Dec liter is unheard of.
9:50
I finally got the guts to go to the urologist when I had the, you know, the good PSA.
I'm like, he's going to congratulate me, right?
I'm going to get a big pat on the back.
He's going to tell me.
What did you do?
He's going to change the way he practices so.
Full of crap.
He had no interest in my PSA.
10:07
He looked at me and he said to himself, there's no way this college professor has testosterone of 1180 nanograms per Dec liter.
He's on the juice, you know, he's shooting himself up with steroids.
And he ordered another test because if he had found out that I was juicing, he would have cautioned me.
10:28
That high?
Testosterone levels, in his mind, were associated with elevated risk of prostate cancer.
He would have told me to cut it out.
Now he's totally wrong, but I didn't find that out until later.
But right now, he sends me to the lab to measure luteinizing hormone.
Luteinizing hormone is what signals the man's testes to produce testosterone.
10:46
And if my LH have been low and my testosterone high, he would have chastised me severely.
You know, my LH came back out of range too high.
This meant I'm totally natural and I've got the labs to prove it to him and I never heard from him again.
11:03
Because he's not going to change the way he practices just because he's got one patient, you know, he's going to write that off as some kind of anomaly that's not common, you know?
So I don't know, maybe it's just some kind of genetic.
Freak.
Well, it it turns out, Freddie, that high testosterone protects against.
11:21
Prostate cancer.
And I'm getting this from a series of papers that were published by Abraham Morgantaler.
He's a physician out of Boston who's been studying male sexual health for decades, and he reviewed all the data, and he said this belief that medical doctors have that you have to put a man on testosterone suppressors in order to protect him from prostate cancer, it's totally false.
11:46
The opposite is true.
So he's elevating testosterone in his patients to protect against prostate cancer, and that means all the men out there who are being prescribed these testosterone blockers are actually being harmed by the physicians.
12:07
Who probably think that they're doing the right thing.
That's right.
Yeah, I just, I did a solo episode a few weeks ago about DHT blockers and in the the unknown, you know, because I said when I had gone through this experience of losing my hair very young, you know, you had to go see a a practitioner and get a prescription for minoxidil.
12:26
And now I'm watching, you know, I'm watching the Buffalo Bills on TV last season.
Every other commercial is for hymns.
It's like, hey, discrete unmarked box at your door, don't lose your hair, boost your test.
You know, they're doing all these things to mess with the hormonal system.
Well, there is no, there's nobody that's looking at the broader picture.
12:43
And I'm my literature, my researcher said, well, you can falsely suppress that PSA level by 50% when you're on some of these, you know, minoxidils and finasteride and whatnot.
So there's implication there.
And it's, I understand your practice.
I just want to say I understand your practitioner, the system that he's in.
13:02
If you stopped to listen to one person, you'd be buried in the landside of patients that are coming in over the next, you know, you're going to see how many people a day.
So I do, I do get it, the system and never fault anybody, but I find it's very what a call to action when you hear stories like yours, when you say, look, I've got this evidentiary proof, I've got this n = 1 and a massive shift.
13:23
And this is the one thing that I did.
So do you have a working theory, Tom, on what did the ice do?
Yeah.
What the cold?
Plunge does is activate cold thermogenesis.
Now typically if you are naive to cold training, the thermogenesis happens in your muscles, you start shivering and to do that you have to use the glucose and the lipids of the fats that are stored in your white fat.
13:49
You know they have to be released into your bloodstream and then they get to the muscle cells and they're the mitochondria process them into the energy you need to generate heat.
If you've done a lot of cold training then you have brown fat.
Brown fat is packed with mitochondria for non shivering thermogenesis.
14:06
So instead of producing ATP, which would fuel exercise or wound repair or growth or something like that, the mitochondria short circuit, they never never get all the way to ATP, they just produce heat.
So this is what's happening when you do a regular practice of cold plunge.
14:23
You activate your brown fat for non shivering thermogenesis so that your mitochondria are producing heat.
Those mitochondria, they didn't come from nowhere.
You have to make them.
Most adults don't have brown fat.
As a matter of fact, medical doctors used to believe that there was no such thing as brown fat in an adult.
14:43
But it was discovered around 2007, 2009 that about 5% of the people still have brown fat in adulthood.
These are the garbage men who work outside or the lumberjacks or the fishermen who are getting a regular sort of dose of cold, that if an adult human being on the regular gets cold, they will maintain their brown fat and the mitochondrial health that goes with that.
15:08
So here's what I didn't know until recently You know where testosterone synthesis begins in the mitochondria.
You take a cholesterol molecule, transport it to the inner membrane of the mitochondria where there is an enzyme that will cleave it into a steroid that I can barely pronounce called pregnonolone or something like this, right?
15:32
That begins the cascade of reactions that result in testosterone and all the other sex hormones.
If your mitochondria are not abundant and not in good shape, then.
They don't produce testosterone.
They're busy doing.
Other metabolic things in your body.
15:49
They don't have.
The inner membrane that can host this enzyme and take the cholesterol and turn it into your sex hormones.
Mitochondria dysfunction leads to low testosterone, and it can happen even in men who are physically fit with lean body composition.
16:08
The Probably the best measure of your mitochondrial function is your insulin sensitivity, because when the mitochondria are damaged, the cell will resist the of insulin to keep glucose in the bloodstream rather than let it into the cell too fast and further damage the mitochondria.
16:25
The amazing thing is you can feel like you're in great shape.
You can look like you're in great shape and.
Still have.
Insulin resistance or mitochondrial dysfunction that leads to low testosterone?
Every.
Leading cause of death from chronic illness in the United States originates in insulin resistance.
16:45
You can read Ben Bickmans book Why We Get Sick if you want to know more about the details.
So here comes cold plunge therapy.
It rejuvenates your mitochondria, recruits new brown fat, fixes metabolic dysregulation, and there's a whole system of benefits throughout your body that result from that.
17:04
Increased cognition is one of them.
And how does that work?
You know that your brain gets smarter because you're getting in the ice bath.
And the fact is, it's true.
Reduce risk of heart disease, reduce risk of cancer.
There are other mechanisms by which cold plunge will inhibit tumor growth or have anti cancer.
17:23
So we're probably going to talk about those.
But every single major cause of death?
From chronic illness benefits from cold plunge therapy because of the way it rejuvenates the mitochondria.
Yeah, yeah.
17:39
You know, Tom, that's why I had adopted like you before there were commercial cold plunges.
I was getting feed tank barrels and going to the ice store and getting 90 to 110 lbs of ice.
You know, I remember how challenging and how hard it was in the beginning, but there was a clear discernible shift in both my emotional state, my physical health as long term and.
18:02
And now it's really, it's so interesting because now they got a a cold plunge in Lifetime, in Lifetime Fitness.
It's a commercial gym.
They don't have a mirage coat, but yeah, they cooled their water down.
They cooled their water down, yeah.
But but it's a thing and you know, it's interesting.
18:19
People are drawn to it like bees to honey.
And what, what is really interesting to me is people actually start talking to each other at the gym.
They start sharing stories.
Everybody, you know, you could you watch people sit in the hot tub or the sauna.
Let nobody's going to talk to one another.
18:36
You talk to people when you're in and out of the cold.
So it's got this community building effect that I've always been, especially the contrast therapy people get Chatty Cathy, they start asking you questions.
Why are you doing this?
How long?
Wow, it's really easy for you, you know, and I, I love telling people like, look, this is a skill.
18:55
This is just like learning the violin or the piano.
I put in my 10,000 hours.
So for me, I'm like, I'm in a place where I'm really enjoying the different stages.
But the thing that's consistent is that I stay with my breath.
I stay with the feeling of discomfort.
I don't want it to feel like eating birthday cake.
19:11
This is what ice feels like.
This feels bad, right?
But it's good.
So I love it in this communal experience and overtime watching it unfold.
And now we've got to this point of maybe you see this as a somebody who works with a system and critical mass.
19:26
You've got this wave where now mass media, you'll see the, I'll call them clickbait articles.
They're like, you know, influencers imploring people to sit in cold tubs, unhealthy health trend.
Absolutely.
I guess you could make that case from an outsider, but if you really sit down and you do some of the reading for me and my money, of course there's outliers, right?
19:48
There's outliers who it's not going to be great for, but for most people it can be a really positive thing to integrate into a practice, a weekly practice at the very least.
There are.
Good physiological reasons why people get chatty in the cold plunge.
20:04
The brain impacts of the cold plunge are not just metabolic.
It stimulates production of hormones and neurotransmitters that affect the brain.
And you've probably felt like the dopamine and the noradrenaline or norepinephrine rush of coming out of the cold feeling like Superman.
20:21
But there are also some more subtle effects.
One of those is vasopressin.
Vasopressin is implicated in vasoconstriction, so.
You get into the.
Water and your blood vessels to protect your core body temperature.
They shut down circulation to your limbs.
20:38
This is called vasoconstriction, and that's associated with an increase in vasopressin.
There's also an increase in oxytocin and vasopressin and oxytocin are the like the caring, nurturing, bonding hormones.
When you get into the cold and you get this rush of vasopressin and oxytocin, all of a sudden you feel like you're with your best.
20:58
Friends for life, you know.
It's no wonder.
People get chatty.
That's no wonder people are sort of cozy and up to you and asking you about your experience because they.
Feel great?
Yeah, yeah, it's really, it's really special.
And one of my, you know, there's magic there beyond the numbers and the science and the norepinephrine and the dopamine and all those numbers that, you know, Huberman loves to throw out and we all love, we all love to latch onto.
21:24
But at the end of the day, you know, experience and joy and community building and feeling seen in a public place, it's a really nice thing.
And there is probably an unquantifiable percentage of healing that is happening there in that space when that magic occurs.
21:39
I think we can quantify it.
It is unpossible to feel depressed when there was three times the dopamine coursing through your bloodstream.
So you get an immediate mood lift.
And that might be part of why some of the mainstream media outlets or the Instagram influencers are pushing against it.
21:59
There is something about cold plunge that does seem too good to be true.
How can it possibly have?
All of these benefits, you know.
The Pharmaceutical industry has convinced us that you have one ailment for which you take 1 pill.
22:15
And there is one optimal dose for everyone, and everything else is side effects that you have to spend 20 seconds reading out on your commercials, you know, on the Bills game or something like that.
And it is a crock of shit.
The body is a complex system.
There is no such thing as a side effect.
22:31
There are only effects.
And we know that there are.
Things that are good for everything in the body, whether that's getting good sleep, whether that's getting dark nights and light days, whether that's getting.
Exercise.
Exercise makes you smarter and it's not your brain doing the push ups.
22:47
Cold is one of those things.
It acts on the body as a system.
It benefits everything when you do it in these short, acute, sort of episodic bursts that allow you to recover in between sessions.
So if the Instagram influencers can get clicks by bashing a popular trend, then you know more power to them.
23:10
Especially when it gives people sort of an excuse to not do something that they don't want to do anyway.
Like if a.
Cucumber facial was going to be the cure for cancer.
I'd be posting on that instead.
If a mimosa brunch was going to cure your depression then I would do an article on that, but that's just not the way it works.
23:31
So there was a big.
Big wave.
Of interest from Huberman and Joe Rogan, you know, in cold plunges and how amazing it was for a year or so.
Joe couldn't shut.
Up about it, he gets Jim Gaffigan, you know, on his program and they're talking about stand up comedy and stuff.
And Jim's like, look, I make my living, you know, making fun of junk food and being the fat white guy that that cold plunge isn't real, is it?
23:54
And Joe says, oh, it's real.
But all of the.
The sort of fad, sort of the trend markers, they've all rolled over.
It's no longer fashionable to post yourself, you know, in a cold plunge on Instagram, then watch people mash the like button.
24:12
There's now a cottage industry in bashing cold plunge for clicks.
Doesn't matter.
The science is not only convincing, but it's becoming more detailed.
What are the mechanisms by which this benefits?
Why is the human body wired to expect cold?
24:31
What happens when the human body isn't getting enough cold?
Just like if it's not getting enough exercise, or if it's not getting enough sleep, or if it's not getting enough sunshine, the body will get sick.
So this is.
My mission, Freddie, is to put the facts out there that are based.
Upon the data.
Yeah, I love that.
24:47
I love that.
I was just going to say that the, you know, I and I would do the due diligence of treating the Wellness market and ice baths the same way I would the Pharmaceutical industry.
I wouldn't place ice baths as the panacea.
One thing that will fix your chronic illness, although it will have great impact on the mitochondria.
25:06
And it's part of that picture that will we have these bodies that follow a rhythm defined by nature and we're meant to self regulate temperature and this is something to help bring them massive element back in.
So I also just want to say that too, that as much as I think it's unbelievable and amazing and more powerful than any pill I've taken, it is one piece of the puzzles tool in the toolbox.
25:29
What I've?
Learned has changed the way that I approach science.
It used to be, you know, we want statistical significance in our studies, and that was in medical science anyway, consider the gold standard of a clinical trial.
And now I understand it's all a bunch of crap.
25:46
Nothing matters more than your N = 1 experience.
So when I first started telling people about what happened to my testosterone, these sort of.
Twitter.
MD's would, you know, come out on social media and they'd say.
There's no randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled child that says the thing that happened to you, actually.
26:05
Happened to you.
But a?
Bunch of nonsense.
These clinical trials are a source of hypotheses until you try it for yourself.
You don't know if you're in like the 90. 9 or the P equals.
Point O one part of their cohort.
26:21
Nothing matters but what works for you.
That's right, that's right.
And of course we've got people like the great Dean Hall, who was another very powerful.
I'm just spending a couple weeks with Dean on the Willamette in his book right now, reading the Wild Cure again after getting to go do an event with him last year and actually do cold water immersion in in Wisconsin.
26:45
And what an incredible story.
The guy literally gets in to swim like 183 miles in the Willamette and gets out and then does some forest bathing and without standard chemotherapy or radiation his cancer is gone, verified by his oncologist team.
27:02
I mean, he said this doctor said if I had not diagnosed and done your scans, I would not believe you were telling me the truth.
Correct.
What I don't?
Know if Dean put this in his book but when I talked to him he said he went to his doctor and he explained his dream he's like I want to do something that is going to inspire other cancer patients before I.
27:25
Die.
I'm going to swim, and his doctor said, Dean, with your immune system in its debilitated state, you so much to set foot in a public pool and it could kill you, Dean said.
Then I got nothing to lose.
He went into the pool, you know, he did like 2-3 laps that he was training and that was about all he could handle.
27:47
He went back into the pool and he worked up to miles at a time.
His family didn't necessarily want him to go because you know, if you're do you want to see your son who's got.
Leukemia Swim the entire length of the Willamette.
River over a.
Period of three weeks.
28:03
You're like, this guy's crazy, like we'd rather have him around for an extra.
Year or something, then kill himself be a drowning on the Willamette 100.
Percent.
But they went out with him.
His daughter and his father accompanied him on this trip.
They watched him go through the hypothermia that he describes in different sections of his book because that river was cold.
28:24
And at first, he didn't have the proper, you know, dry sood and protection and things like that.
They watched him lose like 15 lbs when his doctor came out.
He estimated using calipers the Dean's body fat was down into the low single digits, he said.
28:41
It is dangerously low.
Will you take the weekend off?
This was quoted to the after 2-3 weeks, sort of to the end of his swim and Dean relented.
He said OK, I'll take a couple of days off.
I can finish up next week.
He did, and his doctor was just thanking him because he thought that his body was getting so lean that it couldn't survive, you know, five more days of swimming and it was after he came out of the water and he said.
29:08
I feel great.
It never really.
Occurred to Dean to go visit his oncologist, but it was after.
And his family was so worried about him.
They're like, you really got to get tested, right?
You're going to get tested.
Dad, We got to know.
That's when he went back to the oncologist.
That's when they drew blood.
29:25
That's when the oncologist asked him, where did your leukemia go because there was no sign of it in his blood markers any longer.
That was when his oncologist said, if I hadn't done the diagnosis myself, I'd swear you were misdiagnosed.
29:42
What Dean did not quote his oncologist as saying was it was probably all that cold water and exercise that cured him.
Now that's a.
Pretty extreme therapy.
I mean, talk about patient compliance.
You're not going to get people to swim 187 miles and you probably don't have to.
30:01
Probably you work a little bit of cold into your life and you will improve the outcomes, whether it's as an adjunct to chemotherapy or radiation or whether you're doing it to manage a tumor that is not gone malignant or is not metastasized.
30:17
The cold, there are three mechanisms by which it will help you fight cancer.
The first one is metabolic.
And this is an extensive, a very clever study coming out of Sweden where they showed that brown fat will preferentially clear glucose from the bloodstream and starve tumor cells of the glucose that it needs to survive.
30:38
So they took mice periodically, that is about four hours a day, mild cold exposure, enough to activate the brown fat.
And these mice in which tumors had been implanted, the tumors grew slower than in the control group, the mice lived longer.
So the first one is starvation of the tumor from the glucose that it needs by clearing that glucose into the brown fat.
30:59
The second one is ketones.
When you get into the cold water, you begin producing ketones immediately.
You don't have to go.
Through three days of, you know, carbohydrate fasting to get yourself into ketosis because the glucose clear so quickly that the body releases lipids from the white fat cells so they can be carried to the brown fat to fuel the thermogenesis.
31:23
And as an intermediary metabolic product, ketones are produced and ketones are hostile to cancer.
This is Thomas Seyfried Work out of Boston College.
The third mechanism is coming out of University of Rochester, and this is brand new at U of R They were very curious.
31:41
About the bowhead whale, it's this.
Massive.
You know aquatic animal mammal lives for 200 years and if the theory that cancer develops from mutations in the nucleus.
If that theory is correct, then the bowhead whale should be riddled with cancer by the time it's. 70 years old.
32:00
Because think of all the.
Opportunities for mutations in a long life in a creature that large and it's not what they discovered was that.
Cold water will activate cold shock proteins that have the capacity to repair defects in the DNA in the nucleus.
32:18
And where does the bowhead whale go?
Into the Arctic Ocean.
The bowhead has so much cold that the University of Rochester, you know, scientists are, are hypothesizing that those cold shock proteins are preventing the cancer.
That's three mechanisms.
32:35
Now let's talk about those adverse side effects.
OK, we're done.
Nothing bad happens.
You get uncomfortable for a little bit and then you feel great.
So why wouldn't?
32:50
You.
Incorporate If you're concerned about cancer, why wouldn't?
You incorporate some cold into your life.
And we're just beginning to see some of the case studies that have been well documented.
I mean, Dean is a terrific outlier, but there are others now, people who are saying I added cold, I put one up on my Instagram.
33:09
She could see in her PET scans before she did cold.
After she did cold, the brown fat showed up, the tumor shrunk.
She was using it as an adjunct to chemotherapy and other things that her oncologist had prescribed and getting great outcomes.
33:25
As we accumulate more case studies, we might eventually get a clinical trial.
We might eventually get enough data that people say, all right, I don't like it, but I'm going to give it a shot and see if it works.
For me, like it did for other people.
33:40
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34:03
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34:19
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34:36
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34:52
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35:14
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35:32
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35:49
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36:08
So let's jump on in and let's shine the light.
Now we'll go back to our show.
You know, if we're looking at approaching cancer in a metabolic way, I can't understand why cold water, which sounds relatively cheap compared to the chemotherapy that I did, that was like $19,000 a week, very cheap.
36:31
You know, I think that I can't imagine why not.
And I'm for sure there are other people out there that are quite, you know, you got to be a little cavalier to say this is what I'm going to do.
I mean, the push of information that you get from my experience going through cancer is like, don't go outside, don't go to the gym.
36:46
Mind your immune system, be careful, wear a mask.
Do you know you are in a bubble?
You're a bubble boy.
You don't have an immune system, so it's a little bit fear based and I understand that.
And at the same time, we still have the same mitochondrial that need to be nurtured as far as like these lifestyle interventions.
37:02
So I can't imagine there's not a safe, controlled way.
Part of the reason you don't have an immune system, yeah.
Your immune system might be in good shape if they weren't killing you with chemicals, if they weren't poisoning you with chemotherapy.
I'm not saying their advice is wrong for chemotherapy patients, however.
37:20
Exercise.
Kills cancer.
There are studies in which they do transfusions, they take the blood of people who recently exercised and then they put it in cancer patients and guess what, It inhibits tumor.
Growth.
Exercise has anti cancer effects.
37:36
So when the oncologist says, well we're going to fill you up with this poison and for those reasons to recover, forget the poison is enough to kill the cancer, but we're hoping it's just barely not enough to kill you.
But for those reasons, you should not exercise.
You should not expose yourself to the sun, you should not be outdoors, you should not get cold.
37:54
Or maybe we'll get blamed for miscalibrating our dose because you were doing things that would otherwise be considered healthy.
Does that sound like it makes sense?
Yeah, I mean, believe me, that's it's so plausible.
I, I think there's a, my hope is there is a world in which the two silos of different belief systems can come together and take the best of both.
38:19
You know, there's, we've talked about this on the show before.
There are, there's a dose calibration that is very different in some countries where they say, well, if we're going to support you metabolically and we're going to put you on a little bit of a fast and we're going to optimize ketones and with your infusion of chemotherapy, we're going to spike you with a little extra insulin.
38:37
So those cancer cells light up like a Christmas tree.
That that's a way to work in a different paradigm.
But we're still using the treatments that we know have efficacy and we're still using all these lifestyle modifications.
It is truly, it's a system that has a lot of momentum and force.
38:52
So I think again, just there'll be some breakout clinic that's going to, there are breakout clinics today that are doing it.
But we've got to get more of those into the mainstream and get more publications and more eyes on those topics because I know people who have done those therapies and done very well.
It was Richard Nixon that created the National Cancer Institute within the National Institute for Health.
39:14
They've had 50 years since Nixon signed that legislation and they haven't done a God Dang thing with those billions of dollars.
There are a few diseases, non Hodgkin's lymphoma, the recovery rates are really good from chemotherapy.
So there are a few diseases where good progress has been made, but.
39:32
On the whole, the life expectancy of a cancer diagnosed patient has been extended by a little.
Under a year after 50 years and hundreds of billions of dollars of NC DI research.
At what point do you say, you know, maybe we've been taking the wrong?
39:52
Approach.
I think the point is now.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean it certainly is in my belief system.
And my the paradigm we talked about about it's, it is a holism view, it's a holistic view.
And this you have a biological blueprint that is guided by these rhythms and laws of nature.
40:10
And when we do those, we integrate that in.
It's not that it takes away the disease label, but we start looking at the person, we start looking at lifestyle and we start looking at all these cofactors that it's, it's one and 1 = 6.
And we know this to be true from the available research today.
So, you know, This is why we do podcasts like this.
40:26
And This is why, you know, people can go off and not use it as a, this is not prescriptive in this episode.
This is a jumping off point for you to go out and collect some of this data, find a guiding practitioner who is supporting your best possible outcome.
And then you guys go to work because I, I promise you, they're out there, they're out there, they're out there.
40:45
It just needs to be presented in the right way.
And there's definitely a methodology to working with your doctor and different ego types.
And it's, it's a gentle approach, but you just keep presenting the data and, and at some point, I just would remind people that your doctor is your employee.
They work for you.
41:00
You're not a steward, you're not a ward of the school right now.
So you can also fire your practitioner if they are unwilling to work with you in this goal towards saving your life for better health.
It's hard to say, Freddy, because everything in the way Healthcare is administered right now is designed to disempower the patient.
41:19
You might go see your primary care physician and feel like you have a good rapport with this person and you respect them.
But.
Then you ask them about this, you ask them about that and they say, well, we need to get a referral to a specialist and that has to get approved by the HMO.
With the insurance company.
41:35
We're going to find out what the co-pay is and see if the pharmacy will fulfill that.
There's this whole apparatus of bureaucracy that must approve every step of your care and what it does is remove your agency.
You don't get to go to your doctor and say, well, I want to try this experiment, I want to monitor it.
41:56
In this way, because every other decision is going to be out of your hands.
There's some people who are cash payers and they'll say screw that, I'm paying the bills.
But you know that 90 some percent of the population is under this bureaucratic healthcare umbrella that teaches them they are not in charge of their own health, that their health is somebody else's responsibility.
42:21
It's some corporate responsibility, my job.
Is to empower people with the technology and the knowledge they need so they don't.
Care who's president, they don't.
Care who's directing the HHS And I love the fact that Jay Bhattachara has agreed to run the NIH because in my field, the NIH funds like $40 billion worth of research.
42:41
And I want that research going into therapies like the the type that I'm advocating.
For the holistic.
But as a patient, you shouldn't give a hoot about who's running the NIH because you are in charge of your health.
42:57
The problem is that you're probably scared, in a debilitated state, in no position to be exercising your best judgement, and susceptible to manipulations and fear mongering.
I've been there.
What every patient needs.
43:13
Is a doula.
I'm not sure if you know this term from childhood.
Well, there's a, there's.
A birth doula and there's a death doula.
Exactly.
You need a cancer doula.
You need a type 2 diabetes doula.
You need a whatever it is that you're working on a thyroid disorder.
43:29
Doula.
Because in your debilitated state where you don't have all of your faculties and your catastrophic mind is playing tricks on you, you need that knowledgeable and supportive person who can sit down with you and take the time to make a plan.
43:45
Now when you get 20 minutes with your physician, you are.
Armed by your plan, you know, under what circumstances would you do this?
You know, maybe you're against.
Radiation, but under what circumstances would you consider it?
How do we track those outcomes?
44:01
How do we know whether it's working?
What does this test?
What decision does this?
Test Inform us This is what a doula does is prepare you to be in charge of your own health and right now.
I guess the doula to America is MayoClinic.com or or Wikipedia or wherever.
44:21
Else we're sort of getting our own research done.
Yeah, it's a it's an interesting time, I'll say that.
It's much easier to keep a boulder that is rolling towards health in motion than it is to reverse the downslide avalanche towards a chronic condition, be it Ms. or cancer or Lyme disease.
44:42
Much more challenging because now we're talking about multiple bioregulatory systems in the body being offline.
You know, I've experienced this for years and years and years.
I understand it.
I understand how hard it is not only to to support those systems, but then but then change this, this brain that believes that this is our new chronic norm.
45:00
So you do need Tom.
You need like a it's a life doula.
We need it all.
You need it.
You really need a guide.
And it's tough to find the information at this day and age.
You know, how many people do podcasts like this?
Everybody sounds very convincing that they know what they're talking about.
But you got to, again, I got to say, don't take it as prescriptive, you know, take it as a jumping off point and there's going to be something in your body that lights up when you hear something.
45:23
You're like, God, listen to that.
Tom Seger.
I really got a yes.
I think he knows what he's talking about.
But we're talking about one thing here, which is, you know, ice.
Ice is nice.
That that is incredibly impactful.
There's only one type of device that is worth a damn and it goes like this.
45:43
Here's what worked for me.
You know, people can tell you what you should do and it's all nonsense until you find someone who's been in an analogous or a similar situation and had the kinds of outcomes that you want for yourself.
It doesn't matter except when they say here's what works for me.
46:03
So you know, I I had this elevated PSA.
I didn't tell anybody in my family about it because I didn't want to be pressured by my daughter to go to the oncologist to go through with a biopsy.
So I kept that to myself.
When I got in the ice bath, that's what.
Worked for me if.
46:19
People are like, well.
That's not what I want, you know, I don't want his life.
I don't admire anything about him.
And don't take my advice, but if you say you know it.
Seemed like it worked out pretty good for Professor Seeger maybe.
I should try that.
The rule I have in my life is that I have to try.
46:38
When I get advice from someone I admire and respect, I have to.
Try the advice.
I don't have to take the advice, but I have to try the advice.
Freddie, I did a coffee enema.
You know, based upon this I flew down to Peru and I did 2 days of ayahuasca.
And look, ayahuasca and coffee enemas are not for me, but the advice came in from people whom I admire and respect.
46:58
And they said this.
Works.
So I said, OK, I'll try it now I don't have to do it if you get into the ice bath.
And you have a.
Miserable, wretched experience.
You can curse my my name, you know, a week of Sundays on social media if you want.
It's OK.
It didn't work for you.
47:13
Our number one rule is there can be no coercion, There can be no bullying you.
Can't get that.
Sense of accomplishment from having done something really difficult, unless you're getting in and out of the ice water of your own volition.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
47:29
That's right.
There's this beautiful, there's this beautiful immediate agency you have.
Also, it's like you don't need to wait for a prescription.
You don't need to wait for permission slip.
This is something everybody could go out and try.
You could try it today.
Because now we're, you know, we're like we said at the beginning of the podcast, it was a time where these things didn't exist.
47:46
You had to go either get in a cold lake or you had to go seek it out.
But now, I mean, most major cities have a place where you can go cold plunge contrast therapy.
Hopefully, you know, you're around some other educated people who who are going to explain you're not going to want to white knuckle the experience, but there is a little bit of an art to like, yeah, breathe, play with the breath.
48:07
What's look, what's my body telling me right now?
It's panicking.
Oh, what's that panic telling me?
You know, I think there's definitely, there's some.
I think the more you know, the more you can get out of the experience just like anything else.
But man, I just, I think it's I'm so glad that it seems like it's here to stay.
48:25
Yeah, you're like it's, I don't know if you ever go on Facebook Marketplace, but man, if you want to see the the number one high turn around item is a hot tub.
Really.
So many hot tubs for sale.
Oh my goodness.
It's crazy.
And everybody tells you they're like, we bought it, we just don't use it.
48:40
I was like, why wouldn't you use a hot tub?
I love hot tubs.
Why wouldn't you use it?
But you know, life happens.
And so you'd think, you know, that there would be this thing and people like, I'm just not, you know, doing the ice bath.
Now what I do see online, I see broken ice baths.
48:57
You see a lot of.
Those I see broken chillers and blah, blah, this happened and it needs this and I don't know how to fix it.
And, and that's the thing.
But for the most part, I see people that have really made it a practice.
They still like it and they still love it.
I would like to go a little deeper, Tom, into like contextualizing this conversation around metabolic support.
49:15
And if there's any other thing that comes up in your your cognition as why you would do this in conjunction or some scientific studies that link this to a supportive therapy for somebody going through cancer or that really wants to prep their terrain so they never have to go through that.
49:33
The metabolic disorder that is at the root of all of these chronic illnesses is insidious because it doesn't kill you right away.
People don't think of brown fat as an essential organ.
Maybe they think of it.
49:49
As kind of a nice to have or an unusual phenomena, but.
They don't realize.
That brown.
Fat communicates with the thyroid to regulate your metabolism.
When you don't have brown fat, your thyroid doesn't have anything to modulate its function, and so the next thing you know.
50:04
You've got hyper or hypothyroidism, you got Hashimoto's or you have Graves.
Disease and you say, oh it must be bad genetics, but the fact is that if you had some brown fat to stay in that communication with the thyroid, then it would normalize your thyroid function.
50:21
Brown fats not just for a cold thermogenesis, brown fat is also associated with neuroprotective factor.
So this would be like FGF 21 that helps repair injury to the brain or brain derived neuroprotective factor that helps delay the aging of the brain.
50:39
Brown fat performs these essential hormonal.
Functions.
It's not just there to keep you warm.
So it isn't a nice to have.
It's a must.
Have it's just that when you run out, it takes 20 years for the lack of it to catch up to you.
50:57
And we misattribute it to aging.
Testosterone is such a great example.
Oh, testosterone goes down as men get older.
Not if you don't want it to.
Like why should it?
What goes down is mitochondrial function.
Your mitochondria accumulate insults and injuries and defects in their own DNA over decades.
51:20
And all the functions that the mitochondria are there to support decay.
And it's so normal, it's so common that we call that, oh, that's aging.
Well, you know, you get to a certain.
Age and there's nothing you can do.
What a.
Crock a hooey, that is you take.
Care of your mitochondria and you don't age.
51:37
In a normal way or in a common way?
So I have this book series now, Uncommon Cold, uncommon testosterone, and to some extent it's a play on COVID.
It's an inside joke between me and some of my friends that COVID was a bad.
51:55
Cold and turned into a policy disaster that made it uncommon, but when the joke is.
Over I came to realize I don't want a common life.
I don't want normal on my lab reports, because normal in the United States right now is sick normal for a man.
52:14
I'm 58 years old.
It's a miracle I'm not on three prescription medications that my doctor says.
Are to treat chronic degenerative diseases I'm going to suffer from for the rest of my life.
What a bunch of nonsense all that is.
I want an uncommon life.
52:30
I want uncommon health because what all my peers, my faculty colleagues at ASU are sort of deteriorated into, that's not for me.
Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, I always say go to the airport, go to the airport and just look around.
52:47
You know, it's people really are struggling.
It really, really and truly it's like getting out of the seats, getting on the plane, getting their shoes off to go through the security line.
You and I both travel a lot, you know, go out and see America and, and certainly I also noticed this.
53:02
Different cities are different, you know, the big walkable cities.
Yeah, the one.
You're seeing where people do 20,000 steps.
It's like where'd all the fat people go?
It's like people are generally you can see there's things that if you do have these 10,000 steps a day, if you are walking outside in January to work every single day, there's a different robustness to the human body and the human spirit.
53:25
This is such a good.
Insight You can go to the airport.
You know, all these people have the money to fly.
They have the money to travel, but they can't get to the plane without a wheelchair.
They can't get themselves up the jet way because every time I get off a plane there are six or seven wheelchairs waiting to to carry people to the cart that is going to take them to the what?
53:48
If you've got the money to fly, then you've got the money.
To eat right.
You've got the money to take care of yourself.
At what point when you're, you know, beep through the airport, do you say maybe I don't like the way this is going for me?
54:05
Yeah.
You know, I think our generation, the rules of health and chronic illness, they're very different than two generations ago.
This is not, I don't think you had to grow up worrying about, you know, your toxic peanut allergy for like 30% of the kids in the class.
54:21
I don't think, you know, kids in grade school all had autoimmunity and go on and on and on.
And we could go.
We could list all the sad, sad numbers about, you know, the epidemic that's going on in the United States.
And it's a it's a generational thing.
I do think this generation is starting to look around and saying, hey, wait a minute, you know, I don't want that.
54:38
You know, we've all joked about, like you said in the beginning of the podcast, the list of side effects that people read after a drug with a funky name.
It's so like, man, is that is that the lot I want in life until it's it's you and you're struggling with horrible, horrible symptoms and then you do the thing, you know, but I don't think it's definitely not taught anywhere.
54:58
This is something we have to go learn about the biological systems of the body, why they repair, why they rebalance, how they repurpose tissues and proteins and things.
This is good stuff to know now.
And it's just this is where we I think this is the focus.
It needs to be about educate and power and inspire, really and truly, because I think we've said it a couple times, it's like, you know, you're the captain of the ship.
55:20
It's yours to steer.
And yeah, this is ice is a great tool.
It's a great tool to have an ice, an icebox.
I was going to say toolbox.
Thomas, I'm going to see you soon in Dallas.
You're going to cryo con terrific.
Going to cryo con, I'm going to talk.
55:36
On lymph, you're going to talk.
On cold, take it for you if you need one.
No, I'm speaking.
Oh, that's fantastic.
We'll be on the mainstage.
Together.
OK, maybe not at the same time.
Not at the same time, but we should be.
We'll be, yeah, we'll be doing a presentation on lymphatic drainage and that really cool thing to learn about the body, and you're going to be talking about ice and testosterone.
55:55
What a good idea.
Yeah, fun.
Hey, I'm looking back to it.
Is there a place you'd like the audience to go to?
Either find any of the books, any of the literature you're putting out right now.
Everything I have ever written on the science of cold plunge therapy is available for free at moroscoforge.com.
56:14
You'd go to the science tab.
You'll see all the articles.
But some people, you know, they need the hard copy and in the books.
I have arranged it in a different way and and maybe it's a little more storytelling format.
The Uncommon cold book is really hard to find.
56:31
You can search for Uncommon cold book, but you can only buy it at Morosco Forge right now.
The uncommon testosterone, it'll be on Kindle, it'll be on Amazon.
I'll do an audible version of it.
It will be much more ready for the masses, so to speak.
So if buying books is your thing, you can find it there.
56:50
If by an ice bath is your thing.
You go to the same.
Placemoroscoforge.com When we started, Google hated us.
You know, because who knows what Morosco is?
But now we're the number one search engine result for like 4 different misspellings of Morosco.
57:05
You almost can't miss us.
Great, That's brilliant, that's brilliant.
And if you guys want to check out just some incredible, incredible ice bass and now you guys are doing custom tubs.
I'm always so jealous of the of some of the things you're posting on Instagram.
57:22
It's really wild.
Is the Instagram channel is it Morosco Forge?
It is, Yep, great.
So you know instagram.com/morozco Forge?
Great.
Amazing.
You.
Can find me, You know, if you want to see what gets me in trouble with my Dean at ASU, then go to Twitter and look for SEAGERTPI.
57:42
Got a big mouth that my director is not happy about, but I can't seem to shut up because I'm still angry about some things.
Freddie.
Yeah.
Well, listen, you know, as soon as you can process those things and either let it go out of the tissues.
57:59
And so I always tell people, listen, the acid is hurting the vessel more than anybody you could pour it on.
And that's the truth.
That's the truth.
That is the truth, Tom.
You know, the state of the world right now, you know, and I, I do my best.
I tell people like, look, we generally, we don't talk politics on the show.
58:16
We talk about health and Wellness and but it's a tough time to talk about health and not go there a little bit.
So if you could tune in all the iPhones of the world to you to channel Tom and you get a magic wand and you could say something in an attempt to dissolve the polarization or unite people, what would you say to people?
58:38
Boy, this is really difficult.
To reduce to a.
Tagline.
I mean, there's some clever ones out there like, you know, show me the data or.
Oh, you could talk for like a minute.
Just talk to people.
Show me the data.
Yeah, just talk to people.
What I discovered.
58:54
It started when my son was diagnosed with diabetes and everything that we learned from the American Diabetic Association was a lie.
They told us he can eat all the cupcakes he wants, You know, just bolus for it.
Just inject him with more insulin.
59:11
There is no amount of insulin that can prevent a blood sugar spike in a six year old who's eating Oreo cookies.
And so for me, I became skeptical that the messages I was getting from these institutions of healthcare.
59:26
We're not in the best interest of me or my son, and that was the beginning of going down, you know that the Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole and discovering what was on the other side.
No one is in charge of your.
Health.
Except you.
59:42
My father, he passed away, but he didn't believe me.
At one point, I remember he's bragging at Thanksgiving.
I got five different kinds of cancers, and all that matters is which one's going to kill me first.
I said, well, dad, what are you going to do?
He goes, that's my doctor's problem.
I couldn't believe it, but that's the way that he was raised in the 60s and in the 70s when they told my parents that margarine was better for you than butter.
1:00:08
My parents believed them.
My parents met in Graduate School at Harvard, and there was there was some Harvard.
Faculty member.
That said, you're better off eating hydrogenated.
Cotton seed oil than what comes out of a cow.
My parents were like, oh, we're so fortunate, you know, that we have access to this new science.
1:00:27
What a bunch of garbage.
So here's the message.
We are surrounded by lies and those lies serve the shareholders for good reasons.
Because the executives of Pfizer or Mordena or any of these publicly traded companies, they are legally obliged to put the shareholder interests ahead of the patient interests.
1:00:48
This is the way our system is organized and that's capitalism.
It's not a matter of politics, it is a matter of law.
You cannot trust people who are legally obliged to put your health interests second to their shareholders to give you good advice about health I.
1:01:07
Don't think that's going to bring the country together.
It's.
True, but I don't think it's going to, you know?
Heal the polarization that we're going through.
Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes it needs to break down a little bit before we build it back up.
And I should say that's unconscious capitalism.
It's not just capitalism.
1:01:22
And then, Tom, I have another one for you because it's the Beautifully Broken podcast.
What does it mean to you to be beautifully broken?
There is a concept that has been.
Lost.
To us, it's called hormesis, this idea that a little bit of stress can stimulate changes in our lives that make us stronger and better.
1:01:43
Sometimes on social media you say, oh, you shouldn't do an ice bath because you'll burn out your adrenals.
It's so stressful and they've lost the concept of hormetic stress.
When you exercise, your muscles get sore.
So don't exercise the next day.
Let your muscles recover.
It's the same in the ice bath when you go into the ice bath.
1:02:00
Your mitochondria metaphorically gets sore.
Give them a minute to recover.
I'm in there every day, but only two to four minutes.
I go very cold and I do it for the psychological benefits.
So this idea, what is that?
Japanese pottery.
1:02:15
Where the pottery breaks.
And then they consider, yeah, this idea of beautifully broken.
I'm not actually a fan, Freddie.
I'm not a fan of the advert.
I'm not a fan of like.
The broken.
The Beautiful.
Is enough for me, you know?
1:02:32
Because everything that has happened to us.
That we, you know, in the moment.
We think it's difficult or it's bad.
Has a way of coming back around and making us grateful for how it shaped us into the people that we are now, whom we like better than the person we were before what we thought was bad.
1:02:55
Was a thing. 100% catalyst for change.
Thomas Eager.
Thank you for being a guest on the Beautifully Broken podcast.
Was an absolute pleasure.
So many good clips.
Can't wait to get this out to the world and I am going to see you in Dallas in a hot 2nd.
1:03:13
I'm looking forward to it.
Thanks for having me, Freddie.
Yes, anytime.
Big love, ladies.
And gentlemen, here we are with Season 9 of the podcast.
We're about to Crest into year 6.
Can you believe it?
1:03:28
I'm so glad you're still here.
And I just wanted to remind you, if you like the show, please head over to Apple or Spotify and give us a five star review.
It really expands the listenership.
Now there's one big way you can continue to learn and deepen the relationship that we started in this very episode.
1:03:48
You can go to beautifully broken dot world and you can check out our brand new website and store.
Listed are all the technologies, the supplements, the self quantification, the products, everything that I love, I personally use and I've curated for this audience.
1:04:05
Most of the items have a significant discount just by using the link or our code.
Beautifully broken all one word and they do support the podcast through affiliations.
Now if you want to see the faces of our guest and you want to watch me unbox products and see reviews, you can go over to YouTube at Beautifully Broken World.
1:04:26
Now this next message is from my vast team of Internet lawyers.
The information on this podcast is for education.
By listening, you agree not to use the information found here as medical advice to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition in yourself or others.
1:04:44
Always consult your guiding physician for actual medical issues you may be having.
Now in my closing, we are truly in a paradigm shift.
We need you at your very best.
SO use these conversations as a jumping off point for further exploration.
1:05:03
Always listen to your own body and remember, while life may be painful, how we put the pieces back together is a beautiful, beautiful process.
I love you so much.
I'm your host, Freddie Kimmel.