The Healing Art of Flow Dreaming: Summer McStravick's Wellness Odyssey

WELCOME TO EPISODE 187

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Freddie Kimmel (00:00.874)
Oh yeah, here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the beautifully broken podcast. We are here with a very special guest today. Um, we have Summer McStravick, who for two decades, she has been practicing a technique for almost surreal level manifesting and potent inner healing that she accidentally pioneered 20 years ago. She has worked with the likes of Louise Hay and

Greg Braden and Dr. Wayne Dyer. That is a list of healers that you have been around summer.

Summer (00:39.589)
Oh yes. Life sent me on a wild and interesting path. And I followed, you know, what can you do?

Freddie Kimmel (00:48.69)
Yeah, interesting that the universe put you there with those people. Tell me about that. How did that all start? How did you get into the wellness world and how did you come to be around those people?

Summer (01:00.443)
Well...

I think I was born into the wellness world. My mother was a master herbalist, and I spent a great deal of my childhood being hauled around to libraries and conference rooms while she lectured and taught people about various uses for cayenne pepper or golden seal. So coming into that world was by blood. However, when you're a kid, you kind of want to end up doing anything but what your parents are like. So I decided to go to college

literature and writing and I was determined I would go into publishing and not do any of that woo-woo stuff that helens no I was gonna be smart and you know anyway long story short I found my way into graphic design editing and a very odd little letter that I mailed one day

to Hay House Publishing because they were a publisher. And the only publisher really in where I live, San Diego, sent a letter, hey, do you want me to lay out your books? And I never followed up. I didn't even look to see if they had job openings. I was just, just sent it, forgot it. What do you know? They called me up. Yeah, we want you, come on in. Do you wanna work here? And I said, ooh, I was thinking freelance. They're like, no, you should work here. Like, no, no.

A funny story. I even told them, can I work here for two weeks? And if I hate it, can I go back to being freelance? I mean, I can't believe I even did that. I can't believe my boss said yes, she was wonderful. Anyway, long story short, I got woven right back into the fabric of the wellness world with Louise and Wayne and all just boy the early 2000s and 2010s were kind of a magical time for a lot.

Summer (02:51.717)
of personal growth, healers, etc. really kind of coming up in the world. And my job was to shepherd them through their online experience, if you can believe that, put together their podcasts and webinars. I don't know.

Freddie Kimmel (03:02.903)
We are.

Freddie Kimmel (03:06.214)
Yeah. Oh my God. I bet you have some fascinating stories.

Summer (03:10.733)
Yes, now I'm trying to pick selectively which ones should we talk about. But life always brings you. Good.

Freddie Kimmel (03:15.786)
Yeah, well, it's just such a, it's, it's such a list. I mean, Susie Orman that I left out, um, Marion Williamson, Esther Hicks. I mean, this is, this is pretty, um, these are like the elite of the elite and they're great creators and they're great writers. I would be interested if, um, yeah, it was, was there always a skill accompanied with putting that, that system or that belief or that great work of art out into the online world.

Summer (03:22.475)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (03:43.242)
Sometimes that doesn't transfer into like the creators don't always lay things out for people in a digestible form

Summer (03:50.705)
Yeah, so in 2005, we put together a radio network, an online radio network. I know it sounds funny now, like who does that? It's remember 2005, scroll back with me a little bit. There were, yeah, bingo, right? There were almost no models to follow. We just winged it. And my responsibility, my division was to build out a studio, literally a podcasting studio.

Freddie Kimmel (04:03.23)
Yeah, now we call it podcasting.

Summer (04:21.673)
and help our authors showcase their work to the world. So they would put out a book and then we'd say let's do a radio show around it or let's put together a newfangled thing. They're called webinars. What's that? I don't know. How do I do one? I'm like, it's just like you're on stage, but you're in front of a computer. Oh, okay. Well, I'll try that. And, you know, your question about how do you take, you know, a person's lifelong teaching.

And package it into today, like we throw around courses like, Oh, no big deal. Just make an online course. That was different back then. These teachers, um, we're very used to only getting their messages out in two different ways, live on a stage or in the words of a page, right? So a book. So to, to say to them, look, I'm going to have you talk into a microphone. You're going to get no feedback. You're going to see anybody. You're not going to hear anybody. You're just going to talk.

And for some people, it really threw them because without the audience engagement, sort of the energetics going back and forth in a room, I remember there were several people that they were just like, I cannot do this. No, flat no. And others of course, just were born, born to it. Like Susie Orman, she's, she was, you know, she could do anything. So yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (05:25.901)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (05:34.144)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (05:44.018)
Yeah, yeah. So it sounds like that was...

Summer (05:47.725)
That's the answer. Some people are born for it and some people aren't, but putting their webinars together and really, it was any form of audio. So we had to put together books on tape, audio books and so forth.

I think what I gleaned from it though, after doing it and producing so many episodes and so many programs, some programs are very much, here's a new way to think, and some people add to that thinking a component of doing. And I think the thinking and doing components work best.

Freddie Kimmel (06:23.726)
Mm-hmm.

Summer (06:34.825)
The thinking only ones are good for shifting your mind and shifting your perspective and your paradigm. But unless you do some boots on the ground with it, they seem to be less effective. Right. They snap back a little bit to your old way.

Freddie Kimmel (06:48.51)
Yeah, yeah. I think that's the way the human mind is programmed. You know, there's so much hardwiring for survival. So when we find something that works, we really, we want to, it hurts to change that. And so to un-pattern or reprogram, it really does take the doing. That's been my experience. And it's interesting, but it's funny how we thirst for it. I mean, think about the market for self-help.

Summer (07:07.389)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (07:14.314)
or people who know they're like, God, there's something inside me that's so much more than what I'm living today. But the pattern is to buy book after book after book and course after course. I don't know if you know the completion rate on courses online, but it's not good. It's like 9%. People don't do them. I mean, some people do, but it's a very low completion rate. So it's interesting the way the psyche is interwoven with the ways of change and whether we do or don't lean into that.

So you had this dream job. You know, you had this dream job. But you're not still doing that today. What happened?

Summer (07:44.221)
Yeah.

Summer (07:50.137)
No. Well, yeah. So over my life, I've had a series of pivot points, some of them health related like you. Some of them pivoting me just out of things that I've outgrown. And like you said, people don't like to give up where they are, because it's comfortable. Life wants you to continue to grow, continue to expand, evolve.

And that's the funny thing. Once you get really good at something, once you become an expert, it's sort of like, okay, you're done. You can teach it, but where's your growth happening? Like what's next for you?

So I always think of it as the conundrum of being an expert. You know, by the time you reach that point, you're pretty much done with it, and you're ready to move on and do something else. I can't tell you how many people I have encountered in that same situation. So it was 2009. I had just been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, interstitial cystitis, which is where your bladder bleeds and attacks itself. It's like having ulcers in your bladder all the time. It's awful. And...

I remember I came back from the hospital and I was told you got to clear out your desk. And I said, wait, what? What are you talking about? What? This makes no sense. All my performance reviews are five stars. You know, we're making tens of money and everything is great. Well, Hay House went through a restructuring, a shuffling that year. I happened to be the first one to go. And I think it.

Freddie Kimmel (09:22.925)
Mmm.

Summer (09:27.893)
didn't start my personal growth journey, but it sure was a big cliffhanger in it. Here I am. Um, I've got two little kids at home. I've got this constant bleeding going on, super painful. Um, and I'm suddenly out of a job. And the thoughts that I'd had prior to that, like, if you just do a really good job, if you work hard, if you prove yourself, if you, you know, if you do a good job, then you will be rewarded.

And this was the first moment that I realized, wait a minute, it's like I made some bargain with the universe, but the universe didn't bargain back. I just made that up in my head. That that's not actually what always happens. You can do a great job and still lose your job, right? You can think you're on top of the world and the universe and life can still say, oh yeah, but you're done with that now. Hindsight. Um, that's the best thing that, that happened to me, frankly. I had been.

Freddie Kimmel (10:12.497)
Hmm.

Summer (10:26.517)
dreaming of taking my own work, Flow Dreaming. I'd written a book that Hay House published. I had a podcast with them, started it in 2005, all called Flow Dreaming. My work was taken off. I was starting a lecture and kind of becoming a teacher in my own right. And this was the moment that life said,

Freddie Kimmel (10:46.035)
Mm-hmm.

Summer (10:49.981)
You can stay here and keep supporting everybody else. I mean, we basically put you in this position so you'd get your MBA and how to do all this, right? You want to be a teacher? We'll skill you up in that. You can start by making, you know, helping other stuff with all their, like learn from the best, right? But I got caught in that and I didn't realize, oh, now I have to go and do it on my own. Wow. Is this what it looks like? And I wouldn't do it voluntarily. So, you know, kind of get swept out to do it.

Again, I could hug and squeeze and kiss that old situation now, as devastating as it was to my personal identity, especially. In hindsight, I would never have built my own company, been teaching the last 15 years, written more books, helped the people I've helped.

Summer (11:46.266)
I don't know how long it would have taken me to have the courage to do that. But life said, hey, here you go, you're ready. Bye little birdie.

Freddie Kimmel (11:50.934)
Hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (11:56.134)
Yeah, you said you could kiss and hug that situation today, but I can imagine at the time, um, there were some other feelings involved with that. What probably felt like a forced move. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Summer (12:05.761)
Yes.

Summer (12:10.697)
Yeah, of course. I don't want to go too much into the details of what was going on with the restructure and all that. But I think the biggest feeling I had was, this is who I am. This is what I do. And I felt pride in it. But I also had my identity attached to it.

As in, I'm the person who does all these things for all of these people. Therefore, I am a worthy and good person. I am a person of recognition and stature. I don't know how to describe it. Right. But when you feel pride in something, I made that. And that is, I think what got broken the most. I made that. Great. Now move on from that. That's not all of who you are.

And so I had to scramble around and figure out, well, what's the rest of me? It's not as good as what that was. Well, go build it, go find what the rest of you is. Go, go, go see what, what else you're going to expand into. That was the hardest part. Um, so I spent, I joke about it in my book. I spent about three years. I say, I did one of three things. I cried, I fought with my husband and I threw wild parties to get myself, you know.

of my own mind. I don't mean two wild parties, but there were a lot of pool parties going on back then with my kids. And then I finally, finally realized, look, people keep asking me about flow dreaming and they keep wanting more. Why don't I embrace this? Maybe this is who I am now. And so I began that rebuilding process.

Freddie Kimmel (13:31.852)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (13:36.075)
I love it.

Freddie Kimmel (13:48.806)
Yeah. So in that rebuilding process, you've left this publishing content creation flagship. You're out on your own, but you've also been diagnosed with this very painful autoimmune condition. Did anything else unfold with your health in that time? I know. I just know how these stories go because there's so many emotions that drive the body's immune system to start attacking itself. So...

If you couldn't help us, what was next?

Summer (14:23.049)
Well, in hindsight, again, I think the autoimmune condition, the cystitis came up because I truly was under years of unrelenting stress. And because I was enjoying the stress, didn't mean it wasn't still stress. My body was saying, mm-mm, mm-mm. Nope, nope, nope. Eventually, it took a while for the condition to clear. It took a number of years, actually.

about 10. And it's one of those conditions that supposedly doesn't go away. So I feel so grateful that it did. I'm very lucky. But a few years later, here we are. I built a new company. I have my own company now, my own big, beautiful worldwide flow-dreaming juggernaut, teaching courses, teaching hundreds, thousands of students, writing. It's just...

all my dreams, right? All the, this is what I want, this is who I am. Right at the pinnacle of this is 2015. I feel a lump in my breast, you know where this is going. And I'm only 43. I'm like, wait, what? What? What's going on here? Of course, it was cancer that had spread. So it was stage two. And I guess that was a second breaking point. Pivot point.

Breaking is kind of a harsh word. It's sort of both. So if you think about the, the feelings that I had in, in 2009, uh, when I left Hay House, circle back around again, six years later, but this time the betrayal I felt was my own body. Now I use the word betrayal very loosely, um, almost like sarcastically, because that's how it feels at the time. Like body.

We had an agreement. You, you're going to live till you're 90, just like your grandparents. And, uh, I don't understand why would you do this to me? Why I've done everything good. At the time I had been vegetarian for 24 years. I was doing CrossFit. I was, you know, in great shape, perfect weight, everything. Why would you do this to me? And, um,

Summer (16:46.577)
Again, that's when my identity had to shift yet one more time. And I had to really look at that so-called agreement that I thought I had with my body and realize again, it was a pretty one-sided assumption. It wasn't some universal agreement. And my body was saying, you have to experience this. And instead of, well, let's say in the beginning, of course, it was a crying and sniveling all over the bathroom floor and just feeling like...

Freddie Kimmel (16:59.467)
Mmm.

Summer (17:16.897)
Well, anybody who's ever had a big diagnosis, there's the, there's the, the moments, multiple moments of utter breakdown for some of us when it's unexpected, right? Or any big loss or grief. And that's for me, what I experienced, just incredible grief, just grief, grief for myself. I remember at one point thinking, I'm not just grieving because I'm scared and I've got two kids in grade school and I might not be there.

I'm not just grieving because I could die from this. I'm grieving for every crappy thing that's ever happened to me in my entire life. It was like my heart opened up and all the stuff that had been stored in it over the years was suddenly freed, bubbled out. The cancer was the cork on the top and it popped and everything came out. And the...

The depth of grief and the catharsis of letting that happen. I know afterwards it was kind of a weird situation, but I was able to go into a kind of ecstasy, you know, emotionally, just the lightness, the clarity, just the, it's a way of feeling that's very difficult to describe, and it sounds almost bizarre when I say it, but I can still kind of reach back and feel that.

being able to just go into that purity of lightness and lack of any and all heavy feelings. So that was a game changer for me, going through the cancer experience. And when you lose all your hair and you suddenly go from being a fit and fully yourself 43 year old to someone who just feels like crap every day and the world is looking at you like you poor pitiful thing.

I once again had to find out who am I now? Cause again, that person that I thought I built myself into that I got so, this is how the world sees me. She's not there now. Now you're, now you got to be somebody else yet again. Who are you going to be this time? So yeah, it keeps going. You asked if I had any other things happen. Yes, indeed I did. So

Freddie Kimmel (19:34.018)
Yeah.

Summer (19:35.445)
You know, I'm hoping the next time the universe gives me some pivot points, I want them to be joyful ones because you know, they, they come in all shapes and forms. So I spend a lot of time now talking like, Hey, those are some big ones. And I know I had promised I wanted to learn how to get beyond all the fear in my life, right? Cause that was a kind of a mantra I had in 2015. I'm like, look, the only thing stopping me from everything right now is fear in any and all of its forms.

So, you know, get me through that. Life hands me that. So I'm very careful now what I ask life for, as well as can we do it in a way that's joyful this time?

Freddie Kimmel (20:12.658)
Yeah. I mean, I had said that multiple times in my life that I'm careful what I ask for. And going forward, I just, I ask, I ask the universe. It was like, can I learn these lessons coming forward with ease and grace? Is that possible if you allow it? Because I'm open to receiving. I'm open to the subtle cues to say, you know what? This isn't work. You can push off for another 12 months.

you actually got to do this now. You got to make some big changes. So that deeply resonates. And the other thing that resonates and I align with you, I join with you as a sense of post cancer diagnosis and through the treatment, there's a lightness and an ecstasy about life that's never left. And that was not there in that degree or the amplitude before cancer.

So I truly think we are the lucky ones. There's this term going around all the time when it makes me cringe and people say, fuck cancer. I was like, they hashtag that on their posts. And I, without judgment, I was like, well, do you want cancer to breed? Are you asking to procreate with cancer? Is that, or is this, yeah, I just, well, words have power, right? You know, abracadabra with my words I do create.

Summer (21:15.165)
Hehehehe

Yeah.

Summer (21:27.56)
I never saw it like that.

Summer (21:33.054)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (21:35.35)
So, and then that other energetic is, you know, it's hard. I almost feel like you gotta make this agreement. You don't have to, but this is the way I've chose to see it. If these experiences in life are, they're either all divine miracles or none of them are. So it's hard to cherry pick and say, oh my God, you know, God really blessed me on this day. We won the Super Bowl. And then you see, no, unlike Monday, it goes away. It's like, oh.

Summer (21:36.266)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (22:03.034)
sucks. My car broke down. This is terrible. How can this be happening to me? So I think you got to pick one. That served me to operate like that anyway. I don't know if that resonates with you at all.

Summer (22:14.909)
Yeah, you know, that term cherry picking is actually a term I use quite frequently in my teachings to share the same idea. You can't say you were gifted something beautiful and wonderful and that was good. But this other thing you were given is terrible and shouldn't be here. It's like, well, there's going to be something in all of these things. There it's not. Again, like you said, it's either all happenstance, all just a...

Freddie Kimmel (22:33.857)
Yeah.

Summer (22:44.597)
a volatile explosion of just stuff, or there's some threads of direction and development and consciousness and expansion that guide and weave these pieces together. So yeah, looking at cancer, looking at a number of issues that I've had, I've had quite a few health issues through my life. When I approached cancer, it was, who do you wanna be in this experience?

How do you want to be in this experience? Those are the questions I just kept asking over and over. And I had to pull that from my prior experience, having been let go of my dream job. How do you want to be in this experience? I didn't know how to ask those questions then, but give me a few years later, and I started to understand that. And it really changed how I went through it.

And really how I go through everything sense and, and the level of trust that if I'm being given something to experience, there's a really, really good reason for it. And maybe I don't see it right now, but how do I want to be through this? Because I know I will understand it at some point down the road. So yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (24:02.135)
Yeah. Amen. Now I have to ask you a couple of questions about your previous job that are linked to this experience. So, you know, Dr. Wayne Dyer, Greg Braden, Esther Hicks, you were around these incredible thought leaders that are just giving light to the world. How did that background impact your journey through cancer specifically? If it did.

Summer (24:08.638)
Mm-hmm.

Summer (24:12.129)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.

Summer (24:28.39)
You know, I really can't pinpoint any particular person's teachings that I said, this is the one that's going to carry me through. It might sound strange or self-aggrandizing, but I used my own process of flowdreaming, which was my way of communicating, my way of programming, manifesting, healing, connecting with source.

Freddie Kimmel (24:38.659)
Mm-hmm.

Summer (24:56.969)
I use that predominantly, but I do know that having, like I said, grown up in this world with thought leaders and healers like this, you take all of these ingredients and you throw them in the soup and you get a soup. I can't say that it was the cayenne or the ginger or the garlic. I'm not sure if it was Wayne's or Greg's or any of them.

Or is all of them, all of them. I think it just nurtures a viewpoint, a perspective of look deeper. What's in here? Can you learn from this? What's to be found? Look through this, you know, the, what do you call it? The dirt for the pearls or there's this, that's not saying, but something along those lines. So I think it was all of them, frankly, all of them.

Freddie Kimmel (25:27.35)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (25:44.691)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (25:48.074)
Yeah, beautiful. I would imagine even if by osmosis, that you're swimming and all that. It's fascinating to me. You've mentioned flow dreaming a few times. Can you give us the basics on how someone would understand about the concept of flow dreaming and how that is used as an application to improve your life or your state of being?

Summer (25:53.185)
Yeah.

Summer (26:11.889)
Yeah, I will. I'll tell you briefly because it's a big thing. It's huge. Flowdreaming is a little bit like yoga, right? There's a physical practice. You can go and just do the thing. But there's also a kind of philosophy that you can dive deep into. Why are these movements? What's the energy that's moving? How are you part of something bigger? The physical process of doing flowdreaming,

is a bit like meditation, a bit like creative visualization, a bit like a lot of things, but really none of those. It takes three, I call it the three pillars involved in doing the actual technique. One is guided daydreaming. The other one is calling up deep, strong emotion. And the third one is getting into a state of flow or perfect universal alignment.

And flow state is obviously recognized psychological state. Um, I use flow state to connect spiritually, to connect energetically, uh, with everything as opposed to just keeping it trapped in my brain. So I can get into flow state around solving a problem or having a great golf game, which is how. Yeah. So I bring these three components together in, you know, a technique that

Freddie Kimmel (27:27.518)
or getting the Tesla Cybertruck. Whatever. Yeah.

Summer (27:36.113)
It sort of takes me into a different state of awareness. And in that state, I am communicating. And sometimes I'm just in alignment and I'm receiving and I'm hearing and I'm feeling ease and flow and perfect direction with everything in my life. And sometimes I'm in there and I'm having a conversation. This is who I am, this is how I feel. These are the experiences that I'm growing and becoming.

And some of those are things that I want to quote, quote manifest. You know, I feel I'm, I'm in a, a gorgeous state of vibrant health. Uh, all anxiety has left me. I feel peaceful, abundant, uh, rampant with just possibilities and, and joy and clarity. I feel these things. I'm speaking them for you, but I'm actually feeling them. Um.

It does more, it's not that I'm programming my subconscious. I'm very aware of where I'm at. It's almost like allowing that explosion of, of self and energy and emotion to just volcano out and kind of reshape who you are, kind of like meditation reshapes the neural pathways of your brain. Flowdreaming does the same thing. It creates new pathways. It creates new emotional pathways as well.

Freddie Kimmel (28:49.698)
Mm-hmm.

Summer (28:55.801)
Philosophically, connecting into flow and flow dreaming is a recognition that, well, let's say that life can go forward or backward. Time could go forward or backward. We could be aging or we could be getting younger and becoming a child again. Our universe seems to have chosen one particular direction and it pretty much asserts it.

which is a state of no resistance. The earth just flies around the sun. The universe just expands. We don't have to even try, but we're getting older. We don't have to try, but we are being handed minute after minute time itself. It's like a baton. We keep receiving another minute, another moment, and there's a flow to it. You know, a direction of, again, pure flow and lack of all restriction or resistance.

Now the opposite of that is pure resistance, pure block, pure push, getting nowhere. So I look at the world in terms of, am I in a state of ease and flow? Am I aligning with this natural rhythm of growth, evolution, expanded consciousness, or am I doing things that are putting me in resistance to that?

And I use my emotions as a barometer that tells me. The negative emotions are usually indicating there's some resistance you're encountering. Why are you doing that? Positive ones are, we can all just, we can feel it. Like joy and laughter, there's a light to it. There's an ease to those feelings. Grief, pain, anger. There's a resistance. There's a.

a charge to those. Now they're valuable too, because, you know, think of it like you're, you're bowling, right? And you got the little bumper guides up on either side. If you have, if you've ever had kids, you know those things. When you hit the bumper on the side, it's not pleasant, right? But it's meant to get you back into the lane. Negative emotions are, are gorgeous because they give you those opportunities to get back into the lane over and over again.

Summer (30:59.073)
It's only when we keep those emotions blaring and we don't do anything about them, then they're like a fire alarm that you can't get turned off on your ceiling. And so eventually you just stop listening to it altogether, but it keeps blaring. And that's when we get all that low lying, constant negativity, anxiety, frustration, stuckness, confusion. For me, these are all forms of those emotions that are telling you something. So that's it in a nutshell.

Um, but it's my practice and it's taken me through everything for the last 20 years.

Freddie Kimmel (31:25.291)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (31:29.502)
Yeah, it's beautiful as you're saying that I'm just reminded how that body follows exactly the same rules. That the body is going to give a voice or a signal when something is off biochemically, electrically, and if we choose to mute that signal for long enough, it turns into a bigger problem. And so we have to find this balance of palating,

for a little bit and taking the person out of immediate pain, but then also we have to go deeper. We have to look. We have to be the Sherlock Holmes of our own physical body as well as we do the emotional body. And you got to do both. You know, I think that's the thing. You got to do both. There's no way around it. It's so wild that they both, they work so similarly. It's fascinating. I just had really, I got really sick last week.

horrible bone pain, viral infection, chest congestion, could barely get off the couch. I mean, I was so sick. And one of my good friends said, she's like, well, I hope you enjoy this upgrade to your TH1 immune pathway, which is the branch that's sending cytokines, a cytokine storm, to the viral infection. Because without that, without that, when we rely on old antibodies or...

Summer (32:43.297)
I'm sorry.

Summer (32:49.559)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (32:54.374)
uh, falsely propping up the th two, which is the memory, realistically immune system. Um, we get this like Popeye with this one huge like bicep and we get this. That is the imbalance in the body. So I really embraced, it was funny. I was like, I've never felt this way about a really bad flu before, but I was kind of, I was like, Ooh, I'm upgrading. Like I kept having that thought in my head about, I was like, Oh, I wonder what's, I wonder what sludge is being cleaned out inside cause it's been a long time.

It's been a minute since I was really, really sick. Yeah, fascinating, isn't it? We always need it. And just like you, you were pushed out of this comfortable nest multiple times because you had to be. You know, you had to be. I love that. I'm so interested. Where would people go to discover if they wanted to learn more about flow dreaming? And where would you tell somebody, like a never ever, where do you start?

Summer (33:49.909)
Mm, well, um...

I'm, I'm all over the internets. Somebody just looks me up. Look up, just Google flowdreaming. You will find my site. Um, I have an app for your phone. Um, so what I've done over the years is I've produced many, many courses. I've got like 36 of them, I think, because that's what obviously I've been well trained in making courses, right? For the last few decades. So I've made 36 of my own 30, 37, 38.

Freddie Kimmel (33:55.499)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (34:16.214)
Be sure.

Summer (34:22.009)
Um, where I explore putting this flow perspective into multiple aspects of living, um, from anything from health to, uh, gaining friendships to, um, increasing your, you know, safety and abundance, all kinds of them. I also made, um, more than 300 recorded flow dreams, which sort of like meditation, you can meditate on your own.

Or you can use a guided meditation that's been created for you. Um, flow dreaming is the same. You can flow dream on your own, or you can follow the narration of someone who says, I'm going to lead you into the spaces and the emotions that you want to feel so that you can create or become this particular thing. So all of that is on my website or my podcast flow dreaming as well. Um, yes, find me everywhere.

Freddie Kimmel (35:16.639)
Amazing.

Summer (35:16.873)
and learn about it. And I teach it for free. I've got a kit. I give you free things. I've always taught this process for free. The things that I offer in addition to that are programs to take it deeper, right? To show you what you can really do with this tool. It's like giving somebody a violin. Here you go. Here's your violin. Learn it on your own or come take some lessons. But here's the violin. It's gorgeous. Use it. So, yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (35:30.104)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (35:39.902)
Yeah, yeah. And it's fun to do with other people. A couple of the last questions I'd just love to get your insight on, is it your experience that, lately I've been so, I've been so, I withdraw when I see when I'm invited to an event and it's like, conscious community, conscious dancing, conscious part, I'm like.

Summer (35:46.242)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (36:07.594)
What is that? It makes me pull back because in my experience, it can be so lofty and unattainable to connect sometimes in those events. I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but I was like, God, I just want people to just be real and be raw and come with all your flaws and all the things. But also, just know that you're also committed to improvement in your life and kindness and we want to do better for humanity.

Um, have you ever experienced that? Have you ever pulled away from that and like, I want to separate myself. It's just too, too much.

Summer (36:43.409)
Yeah. But first of all, I also want to say, I'm so glad you're feeling better. I mean, I would never have known you were, you were sick last week. So that old body of yours must've just kicked some ass. So, um, yeah, I just want to acknowledge that like props. You burned it. Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (36:50.583)
Yeah.

Oh yeah, upgrade. I got the upgrade. Thank you. I really do feel better. And I'll tell you this, yeah, from a history of like Lyme and autoimmune, sometimes in the past that this, it would throw me for like months and months and months. And actually I feel better. I feel like even that light of knowing and remembrance of the sweet nectar of being alive is a little brighter post.

Summer (37:19.965)
Yeah. OK.

Freddie Kimmel (37:22.231)
being second and it was totally the my friends like embrace this upgrade and that really it's stuck with me is very powerful.

Summer (37:30.849)
So you did both, you did physical healing and you did emotional healing, which for me, healing isn't complete unless you do both. And sometimes oddly the emotional healing can take a lot longer than the physical healing. We just drag it around. For me, the cancer was like that. It took me years to feel healed emotionally from the experience, whereas, you know, it took only about a year for it to go out of my system. Anyway, now we're going off in different streams of conversation.

Freddie Kimmel (37:33.482)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (37:50.382)
Hmm.

Freddie Kimmel (37:58.538)
No, it's great. Let's drift. Let's flow.

Summer (38:01.033)
The, let's drift. Gosh, those conscious communities. It's a real mixed bag. I'm a little bit of a heretic when it comes to this because when I was younger, you know, I'm older now, but in my 30s, 20s, even 40s, I'd be like, yeah, let's go. Dance on a beach late at night with some drums and some, you know, bonfires and what? Throw it at me.

Now that I'm a bit older, I see people trying to show their feathers, you know, like a bunch of a bunch of peacocks, bunch of birds. Look at me, I'm this way, this is who I am. I sense and feel that a lot more, which is fine and normal because we all do that in our communities, you know, the dress we wear, the clothes we put on, the way that we, you know, try to show ourselves to the world. We're always trying to fit in with one community or another.

Freddie Kimmel (38:49.154)
We all do that.

Summer (38:59.381)
Um, so it can be overwhelming. Um, I'm, I also work as an empath. Um, so intuitively when I walk into situations where there's a lot of.

It's not the words, it's not showboating, but there's a lot of awareness of this is how I want posturing. Yeah. Perceive me this way. Um, it, yeah, it kind of makes me want to back out of the room too. I'd rather go sit in the hallway with somebody else who's feeling overwhelmed and be like, Hey, what do you think of this? The music's pretty good, huh? But, uh, I don't know about the rest. So

Freddie Kimmel (39:16.622)
posturing.

Freddie Kimmel (39:27.095)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (39:36.298)
Yeah. If I open myself up to it, I got off the plane the other day in Miami and gotten an Uber and this guy was like, you know, he's making small talk and eventually we're driving through Miami's like, look at these buildings. Don't you think there's opportunity there? Can I tell you my dream for a jewelry washing business? And we had this great, you know, he was just opened up and he's telling me what he wants for, you know, his business, but also so he can like, give his family a better life. I was like, Oh my god, what an amazing conversation.

Summer (40:06.697)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (40:06.802)
Uh, you know, he wasn't, he wasn't labeled the conscious Uber driver. He was just like a human being and I was open to the exchange and it was so fruitful for me, the cab ride.

Summer (40:11.199)
Yes.

Summer (40:17.941)
Mm-hmm. This is taking me back to high school. So I was an old goth in high school. I mean, we're talking way back here. Right? Oh, yeah, I was. Yeah, of course I was. I still have my old Doc Martens up in the closet upstairs and... What I remember...

Freddie Kimmel (40:24.855)
Oh yeah you were!

Summer (40:36.893)
perceiving even back then as, okay, we all like the same music, so we're all going to wear the same clothes, and we're all going to be a group together and, you know, share that, you know, prop each other up in this, you know, outsiders land, you know, that we're in. But even then, I recognize that I'm far more fascinated by a person's inside than their outside. And

Freddie Kimmel (41:00.689)
Mm-hmm.

Summer (41:03.533)
you can find the most beautiful and interesting insides in the plainest exteriors. And so I'm always sort of searching for that in, you know, the people that I surround myself with. I don't care what you wear now. You can wear plain white t-shirts and jeans every day of your life. Doesn't matter. If you're, if you're fascinating and gorgeous in there, you know, bring it on. So just, just

Freddie Kimmel (41:31.978)
I love it. Summer, I'm gonna give you a magic wand. You can wave it in front of your face and all of a sudden it's gonna bring into like TV screens. You're gonna go to everybody's home in the world. It's 2023. We're moving into 2024. What do you say to the people of planet earth? You get a whole minute.

Summer (41:46.996)
Yeah.

Summer (41:52.673)
Oh my God, stop fighting with each other. Like come on humanity. I'm gonna go big level with this, right? I just, stop fighting with each other. At some point we have to stop fighting with each other and stop fighting with the planet. Like that's, you know, we have wars on two fronts, wars with one another and wars with the very planet that sustains us. And I feel like humanity, hey, everybody here, who are you fighting with? Can we just stop?

Freddie Kimmel (42:00.13)
Yeah.

Freddie Kimmel (42:15.287)
Yeah.

Summer (42:21.749)
Can we just stop? That would be my biggest message. Not that anybody would listen. I'm one of a million people who've been saying that through history. Aside from that, yeah, just tell someone you love them today. That's another gift that going through my illnesses and so forth has given me. I think people are very stingy with their love. They say they're being selective or they're having the boundaries or you prove it to me or you've got to earn it.

If I like somebody, I just say straight up, I really like you. I tell my friends, my clients, I love you. And I mean it when I say it. It's not a thing. It's that I see something in you that's beautiful and gorgeous and fascinating, and I choose to have you in my life. I love you. And I think we should be a lot more generous with that term. So pick somebody. Pick someone you wouldn't normally say it to.

Freddie Kimmel (43:03.691)
Mm-hmm.

Summer (43:18.973)
And if you can't say that, just say, I really like you. I really like you. Do you wanna be my friend?

Freddie Kimmel (43:19.19)
Beautiful.

Freddie Kimmel (43:24.79)
Beautiful. Well, we will close it down there. Summer, it was my treat having you on the show. I love your story. I love your vibe. And I'm excited for people to discover you through this platform. Although you've been discovered for years and years and years, but we will support that amplification of that growth and all the good stuff you're doing in the world. So thank you for being a guest on the Beautifully Broken Podcast.

Summer (43:25.953)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.

Summer (43:47.361)
Thank you so much, Freddie. It was wonderful.

Freddie Kimmel (43:48.958)
Yes, thank you. Big love.