The Science of Healing with Dr. Ryan Meyers: Personalized Recovery for Chronic Illness

WELCOME TO EPISODE 238

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

0:00
But the concept that I love is, and the example I give to everybody is how often do you see somebody and you can't remember their name and you're like, what's their name?
I can't think of their name.
What's their name?
What's their name?
And then two days later you remember their name.
It's because as soon as you asked your subconscious, what's their name, it goes to work figuring out its name.
0:20
And so the science behind this is if you say, man, why am I so sick?
Why does nothing work?
Why is this so hard?
Why is this so bad?
Your subconscious then starts to fill your conscious brain with answers that answer those questions.
0:36
Here's why it's so hard.
Here's why you're so sick.
Here's why you're never going to get better.
Here's why.
Here's why.
Welcome to the Beautifully Broken podcast.
I'm your host Freddie Kimmel, and on the show we explore the survivor's journey, practitioners making a difference, and the therapeutic treatments and transformational technology that allow the body to heal itself.
1:00
Witness the inspiration we gain by navigating the human experience with grace, humility, and a healthy dose of mistakes.
Because part of being human is being beautifully broken.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Beautifully Broken podcast.
1:19
We are here with Doctor Ryan Myers.
Ryan, welcome to the show.
Thank you, Freddie.
It's so awesome to be here.
You know, we talk all the time and so I'm excited to, you know, sit down and kind of make this a good formal discussion, but just talk about, you know, what we do and love sharing with people.
1:34
So this will be great.
Yeah.
You know, I get to talk to a lot of people that are working on the next Gen. you know, liquid blood biopsy tests and people that are working on genomic sequencing.
But Ryan, you run a clinic in Utah.
1:50
Can you tell us a little bit about your practice?
Yeah, definitely.
So I run, own and run what's called the movement clinic here in Utah and we specialize in accelerated healing and recovery.
And so the short kind of story of our clinic is we started primarily in the sports injury, pain and rehab world and still specialize in that and everything from youth athletes to professional athletes, but that works.
2:18
And really it's us, right?
It's middle-aged, healthy, active individuals trying to live active lives, but dealing with either acute and, or chronic pain.
So we have a huge specialty in in solving chronic pain through this whole journey.
My wife went through a 16 year chronic illness journey and we realized that a lot of the things we were using to help on that side, the pain and injury side, help accelerate her process through that once we started getting some good answers.
2:46
And so really for the past number of years, I've kind of shifted and recommitted my life to functional medicine and helping to solve what we call silent illnesses.
So these chronic illnesses that, you know, don't have, or at least on the surf, this is all stuff we hear about, right?
3:03
Your labs are normal.
We can't find anything.
Everything looks good yet you're, you know, living at home in misery.
You're you can't get out of bed.
You know, I say this is the you dress up and put on a good face to take your kids to school, go to the store, go to church.
But really you're suffering silently inside and haven't been able to find any answers.
3:23
And so from living through that, which I actually think is a unique experience as a clinician and having that experience first as patients and caretakers, to building solutions around that in our clinic.
And so on that side, I work with patients both locally and virtually across the country to help discover root cause illness and work to build personalized treatment care plans for them to get to resolution.
3:52
And to really, you know, my why is to enable people to live the life that matters most for them without interruptions from either illness or pain.
So yeah, that's what we do here.
It deeply resonates, you know, deeply resonates.
I can think about, you know, for as far as I've come, as much has unfolded to allow me to just express very energetically.
4:16
And I just worked an event this weekend at health optimization where I was on my feet for 13 hours back-to-back days.
Yeah.
And man, I can just, I understand sometimes it is about you putting on a good face, you know, whether that's to go out and go pick up the groceries.
4:31
And you're like, man, do I feel like I was whacked by a sack of potatoes last night.
You know, it's really wild.
Ryan, can I ask how your wife is doing today?
She's doing phenomenal.
You know, we lived in a world where she would sometimes sleep for four or five days straight.
4:50
Mental health issues, musculoskeletal pain issues, you know, feet fatigue is an understatement.
You know, brain fog, neurological issues.
So now, I mean, she does CrossFit or some sort, some form of working out every day.
You know, she's worked in and out of our clinic with patients over the years.
5:08
Manage.
You know, she's a mom, right?
So she's running.
We have everything from 16 years old down to four years old.
And she is a rock star with them.
And so, yeah, she very personally, you know, experiences her story with our patients also and then feels like, you know, we went through that as a gift so that we can share that with other people.
5:29
But yeah, I mean, she's doing phenomenal.
Was there some type of a keystone turning point or do you think is it just layers over time that added up into one day?
You're like, Oh my goodness, we're doing really good 'cause I know sometimes when you're in it, you know, when you're in it, you're waiting for that one thing.
5:46
You're waiting for that 20 sessions of hyperbaric or you're waiting for that NAD infusion to be the the turning point.
What was her experience?
Yeah, and you bring up a great point.
I was actually thinking about this a little bit over the weekend as I was thinking about a few patients that I'm working with and, and, you know, just some different things, you know, discussion topics that I'm having and, and really kind of thought process I came to and this will come around and answer your question.
6:12
But I think people that are looking for healing typically have 3 unmet expectations.
And 1st would be who?
So who has the answers or who knows how to figure it out, the how or the what it's going to take and then time, right?
6:29
How long.
And I think everybody wants the first person that they go to have the answers and the how or the what to be something super easy and magical and they want it to happen yesterday, right?
And even when I'm dealing with pain, you know, an injury, it's like, look, the longer you've dealt with this, the longer the recovery is going to be in with stuff like chronic illnesses.
6:49
We're now we're dealing with potentially every system in the body that has dysregulation and all those types of things.
The answer of what's going on is probably more unconventional than you want it to be.
And the how is I, I often tell patients, and I'll paraphrase the quote, but it's from remember the Titans where they chastise him for how small his playbook is for the offense.
7:16
And he says like, you know, 6 plays just like Novocaine.
Give it time, it works every time.
Something like that.
People want the magical, flashy, new, glamorous when often it's the right things applied in the right way consistently over time.
7:33
And then as far as timing go, they tell people like look like everybody reacts and responds differently.
And that's why as a clinician, we have to be able to know how to adapt and shift and pivot based on how patients responding to care.
7:49
And so, you know, there's a lot of cookie cutter stuff out there.
So now flip back to answer your question with my wife, the things that especially looking backwards, but even in the moment, you know, 'cause in the moment, yeah, you're like, man, we've been at this for years.
We've spent thousands of dollars, we've done tons of things.
8:06
And in the moment, it's hard to notice progress sometimes.
The other analogy I tell people, it's like when you're trying to lose weight and you're working out and you see yourself in the mirror every day and you think nothing's changing.
And then you see somebody you haven't seen in a few months, and they're like, oh, wait, Cal, you look amazing.
Very similar with healing.
8:23
You know, when you're living in your own skin every day, sometimes it's hard to see those 1235 percent changes, which are significant.
But when someone on the outside is not living in your skin, sometimes we see that more often.
And so in the moment, yeah, sometimes we were like, man, like, what are we ever going to get out of this?
8:43
Is it ever getting better?
You know, and.
And the journey's not linear.
So we'd see bumps and then she'd dip again and we'd see bumps and then she'd dip.
What was interesting is we looked backwards, the consistency.
So my wife is like, if I'm doing something, I'm doing it all in type of a person.
9:01
And So what that meant for us was and for her, as if her clinicians told her to do something, she did 100%, she would do the diet 100%, she would do the treatments 100%, she would not miss a day, she would detox 100.
9:17
You know, she did everything.
And I think what was interesting at the time, she's kind of going through this journey with another, you know, kind of with like a group of people that were going through similar journeys.
And we started to notice that she was accelerating and improving at a different rate than others.
9:34
And when you start to dig in and look, just compare 1 to 1, consistency was the most dramatic thing that changed.
And she will tell you consistency on diet and consistency on detoxing, even when everybody might have been getting similar treatments, her consistency and dedication to those was dramatic.
9:54
And then I think the other thing that was kind of spurned off, you know, for us to see, wait, there's something else going on here.
So I have been introduced to hyperbarics really early in my clinical profession.
And we've always had that in our clinic.
And we're using that really heavily and to help accelerate healing and recovery with our pain and injury.
10:15
And when she was going through her chronic illness journey, she was using hyperbarics very consistently.
And that's where we started to say, OK, she's consistent with these things, but also there's a few other things that she's doing that we started to notice.
10:31
Her progress was changing and was moving at a different rate.
She'd have those dips, but they were shorter and what I would say less deep each time a dip would come.
So that's where you're saying, OK, there's stuff happening here that's different.
So now how can we leverage the knowledge that I have and that we were using the success, look at the research of what's happening and then really understand different ways to look at how to uncover root cause illness or root cause issues that are driving illness.
11:03
And then put together a new system or infrastructure of patient care that it really doesn't exist out there in the same way.
And I shared with a friend yesterday, it's a line from the live action Cinderella where early, Bear with me, early.
11:23
On.
She meets the Prince in the forest, doesn't know that it's him, and he's on a hunting trip.
And she asks him not to kill the animal.
And he says, well, we're hunting, it's what's done.
And then she says just because it's what's been done doesn't mean it's what should be done.
11:39
And that's always stayed with me.
Especially in a patient care approach is too many patients are seeing practitioners that just do what's been done and conventional and traditional means produce conventional and traditional outcomes.
And So what I believe and what we discovered with her and now apply with all of our patients is to get lasting outcomes and results that are different than what's happening other places.
12:06
You have to have unconventional solutions to problems and be able to look at things unconventionally.
And so that's really what we learned and did through her journey and now have created and try to multiply with the patients that we see on a daily basis.
Yeah, beautiful, Beautiful.
12:23
Yeah.
I really like the piece of when I'm listening to you walk through your wife's story.
Like I'm aware of how strong the negativity bias is within the mind, and that is a hardwired primitive instinct to keep us alive.
And at the same time, the mind is saying we're not better, we're not better, we're not better as opposed to like what had been done in that group situation in which your wife started to pull away from the pack.
12:51
They were actually acting as a mirror.
And so it gave you like, wait, this is a benchmark.
You're pulling away.
And so I think it's so great.
It's like whatever you can use to identify like, did I go down for two weeks?
13:06
Did I go down for three days?
Because the minute I will tell you, let's just say a lot of the times my down was a small ball obstruction, It's a really bad pain, right?
3-4 days of vomiting.
If I get that pain today, I go through the same scenario.
13:25
I'm like driving in the emergency room.
I'm picking what hospital I'm going to go to.
I think about how like I'm, I'm imagining like, oh, I wonder what I would use to recover from the surgery.
My brain is mapping out the worst, even though the pain today, it's like a 2 out of 10 where it used to be a 10 out of 10 for years and years and years.
13:45
And I have the tools, right, Castor oil packs and, and pulse electromagnetic field and all the things that I do to put the body back in the parasympathetic and remind itself that it's safe.
But it's the same story that I still wrestle with.
And I can remember how strong it was.
14:03
You know, it could be, you know, the episode could have been three days, but the two weeks after I was very depressed, you know, didn't really feel safe, you know, that cause.
And, and I, and A lot of this time I was doing it on my own.
So I didn't have that support system necessarily to be like, oh, it'll be OK.
14:21
My story was nobody knows what this is like.
I'm the only one going through this.
Nobody is as sick as I am.
And I think with these chronic illnesses, it can be so dark at times that you get lost in that story.
Yeah.
And I'll add on to that chronic illness, and I'll say chronic pain, right?
14:39
It's something that you live with some sort of invisibility with.
I mean, it's hard to describe and it's hard to, you know, and, and you're right, your mind.
And that's what's so interesting.
We're hardwired from a survival standpoint to say all those things subconsciously so that our body goes into protection mode.
15:02
But the reality is that's not a healing place.
And so, you know, that was another thing that my wife was really big on and still is, is, you know, she quickly realized that if she got on, you know, or paid attention to, you know, all these message groups, Facebook, you know, social media, like, it's all just negativity.
15:24
And she made a conscious choice to stay out of it.
And so, you know, look, we talked with our patients big too, about journaling for a lot of reasons.
One, gratitude is powerful and a lot of them don't believe that until they do it.
But then two, being able to look backwards and say, oh wow, like 2 months ago when this happened, I felt like this.
15:48
And today I feel like this and it's still not great, but holy cow, it's, you know, two months ago, I couldn't even get out of bed.
Today I was able to get out of bed, take the kids to school, go to work, do whatever.
And I was tired at the end of the day, but I had energy to do that right, 'cause people come to me and back.
16:04
Well, I still have fatigue or I still have pain.
And it's like, well, yeah, you still have pain, but you worked in the yard for six hours yesterday.
Or a month ago, you couldn't even get out of bed.
Or you still have brain fog or chronic fatigue, but you were able to make it through a full work day and then had to crash at night, you know, So the milestones I think are very powerful if we have a way to identify them and recall those back.
16:33
And that's more powerful than everybody else's negative milestones of why things are so bad and why there aren't answers.
And, and that all trigger me into I just had this thought come in, you know, there's a law and there's actually a lot written about this that your, your subconscious has to answer every question that you ask it.
16:55
And so, you know, there's books written called change your questions, change your life, right?
But the concept that I love is, and the example I give to everybody is how often do you see somebody and you can't remember their name and you're like, what's their name?
I can't think of their name, What's their name?
What's their name?
And then two days later you remember their name.
17:12
It's because as soon as you asked your subconscious what's their name, it goes to work figuring out its name.
And so the science behind this is if you say, man, why am I so sick?
Why does nothing work?
Why is this so hard?
17:28
Why is this so bad?
Your subconscious then starts to fill your conscious brain with answers that answer those questions.
Here's why it's so hard.
Here's why you're so sick.
Here's why you're never going to get better.
Here's why.
Here's why.
And so it's a skill to be able to reshape those questions to say, why is it so easy for me to get better?
17:50
And that sounds so stupid to people that don't feel better.
There I go.
I'm not saying that or how is this treatment going, you know, so amazing for me or why is it so?
Why am I enough?
How am I enough when partnered with this?
It's shifting those to positive because then your brain goes, Oh yeah, it is easy to get better.
18:10
And here's all the things of reasons why and it answers those in your brain.
And so there's a lot out there about like writing, reciting, listening to like affirmations or sound, you know, whatever you want to call those things.
I'm a big proponent of writing down and reciting questions every morning also that have to do with this.
18:34
So, you know, why am I enough here?
Why is it so easy for me to get better when I do these treatments?
Why is it so easy for me to do this and really take time to write those down?
And people sometimes say it feels like vinegar in my mouth when I say these things because they're not real.
18:54
And it's like, good, then if it they don't taste that bad in your mouth and they're not strong enough questions in the opposite direction.
And you start to rewire your brain.
And after a few days and weeks of doing this, your brain starts answering those questions of, yeah, here's 100 reasons why you are enough.
19:13
Here's 100 reasons why you do feel better here.
And it changes your Physiology.
So this isn't just about dealing with relationships and people.
It's about how you can change the Physiology by rewiring this from a negative place to making it answer questions about why your health is enough, why you are doing better, why things are sufficient for your needs, all those types of things.
19:38
Yeah, yeah.
From seeing people in my journey have access to all the tools from the best clinics and the best hyperbaric chambers and stem cell procedures, and then watching some people do really well and other people do a really poorly and then being able to identify my bias is that this one not I don't like non negotiable for its rigidity.
20:04
I do like essential that this essential piece in which we honor the design of the subconscious and conscious mind and and the ratios in which the conscious mind is such a small little processing portion of the pie or a subconscious is so big that my bias is that it is an essential piece.
20:24
To healing and it doesn't negate all the things that we need to honor like genetics and methylation pathways.
And it's an essential piece, and that's just been my experience.
Well, and I think, and here's where I love talking about this type of stuff, but then the other answer is, well, how does this come down to be really tactical and like actual day-to-day?
20:46
Because, yeah, you need to talk to somebody who's been struggling with stuff for a long time and they're like, yeah, cool, I can do all that.
I'm like, OK, then start with showing up every day.
Start, you know, whether that means you might have to extend your trust for a certain amount of time to say, OK, I'm just going to show up to my appointments every day, or I'm going to take this supplement every day even if I don't totally believe, understand or whatever because 'cause yeah.
21:11
So you can ask somebody to write a journal.
You can ask somebody to work on their subconscious mind.
You can ask them and do all that.
And a lot of times people are not in a place where they're, it's like, yeah, I get that, but what are the answers?
Like, OK, so trust me on that.
In the meantime, the soundtrack has to be I'm just going to show up.
21:30
I'm just going to show up and I try to teach that a lot.
It's like, look, the consistency is what matters.
You know, again, the I'm a visual analogy person.
It's like like you don't go to a gym one day and walk away with a six pack unless you're ready.
But.
And it's the same here.
21:47
It's like, look, if you've been sick for a decade, you're now going to do a couple of therapies a week and take a supplement and be better.
We are literally rewiring and changing your immune system, your Physiology in a number of different ways, and it takes time.
22:04
And so the original soundtrack or question might be, why is it so easy to show up?
You know, why is it so easy to take this supplement every day?
And that's the type of thing, even with like, eating people, like I have to eat this way.
22:19
I'm like, no, you get to eat this way.
You get to choose to do that.
And when that shifts, that's so much more empowering.
So anyway, yeah.
Yeah, I think it's profound.
You know, with that, Ryan, I'm sure in a room of 100 people with chronic pain, all very much experiencing pain, I would offer to the audience or anybody hearing this, we can imagine every single person has a different blueprint that's driving their symptomology.
22:50
One might have been an auto accident where another person again might have been like a severe like termination of their job and the relationship at the same time.
And these syndromes develop.
So because you're a clinic that deals with chronic pain, how do you address that, You know, when you're working with this very diverse population, which is coming to you for essentially the same thing, You know it.
23:16
I say this in this way because you start to realize like the lunacy of saying, well, this is the medicine for pain.
Yeah.
Right.
So I come at it from a few places.
I think one being able to assign like there has to be some objectivity.
23:33
So helping people understand really how and what's driving what's going on to as much as their understanding is able to comprehend that, you know, from a pain standpoint, explaining some of the different pain pathways or here's, you know, what's going on biochemically.
23:49
And here's how what might have initially been a tissue injury is now just a neurological pain loop.
And because of that, and sometimes you have to prove that to them.
And so, you know, with pain, for instance, I might have to prove to them that there is no tissue damage anymore, which means, you know, all of the pain related things that address tissue damage are not, that's why they're not helping because we've got to address some of these other things.
24:18
And here are the tools that we need to do to do that.
You know, and same on the chronic illness side, you know, for instance, so often people are going through treatment to kill and fight infection, kill and fight infection, kill and fight infection with whatever name, I'm not going to say them, but whatever name tag of infection you want to call that when 9 times out of 10, by the time they get to me or they've been working on this, the infection is long gone.
24:46
The tissue damage is long gone.
And we're dealing with a physiological aftermath of that.
And if you can put some objectivity towards that one, that helps.
And then I think there's this again, going back to the mental and subconscious.
25:02
Like I say, people come in with name tags on a name tag of chronic pain, a name tag of neuropathy, a name tag of long COVID, a name tag of Lyme, a name tag of Ms. the name tag of whatever.
Like we come in with.
Some people come in with 20 name tags on that they've been assigned or given.
25:19
And we got to take the name tags off because the identifying with your pain, the identifying with a name tag of a diagnosis, that doesn't help get us to where we need to be, you know, and going back to pain, because we're talking about that the longer.
25:35
And look, I went back to school and I was 30 to get into healthcare.
And a lot of that is because I had an injury that I had been dealing with some chronic pain with for years and wanted to figure out, I'm like, there has to be better answers.
But even with that, the longer people are like, I just have chronic pain or my L5 is just bad right now.
25:57
You're assigning something that doesn't necessarily deserve to be assigned.
And so for me, there has to be some objectivity to help people understand the why of what's going on.
And again, explains most of the time in a way people are like, no one's ever told me that before.
26:15
You know, I've got you know, I worked with a patient that had, you know, on imaging really bad, quote UN quote arthritis or degeneration, and was told your only option is a joint replacement and you know, fairly young individual.
26:30
And I'm like, you know, after doing assessing, I'm like, hold on, there's actually lots of options.
So we went through them and start doing some work and you know, it's this patient's getting better.
It's like, how come nobody told me?
And I'm like, well, that's a whole nother conversation.
But the reality is, you know, if we're able to give some objectivity as to what and why it's going on, then the how can really drive.
26:53
And then you can always anchor back to, well, you remember this is what's going on and this is how we're going to get that better and then tracking that objectivity over time.
But then also, I think too, you know, you mentioned it and look, you and I noticed we go to these conferences and talk to all these people like there are 1000 tools out there.
27:13
It doesn't mean you need 1000 tools to get better.
You need a collection of a few of the right tools stacked in the right way.
And you know, when I speak and teach, the analogy that I always use is it doesn't matter how cool the hammer somebody has to use.
27:34
What matters is the mansion that they can build with the hammers that they have.
And so at the end of the day, patients don't care what wattage, lumen pressure, giga wattage.
And, you know, like, and you and I know this, you go to these things and it's like, and that's why I tell people I'm like, if a clinician is advertising a hammer, they don't know how to use it.
27:58
And that's where, you know, as I teach and presents like, OK, yeah, here's what this thing does.
But what matters is, is it in the hands of a clinician who actually knows how to use the hammer or that tool belt to build a mansion of health for you?
Because and at some point actually having there can be superfluous options.
28:21
And that's a lot like, so I would say now kind of this like functional medicine or alternative medicine or whatever complement like whatever this world is.
I kind of don't like most of those terms, but it's turning into kind of what I would say.
We say conventional medicine struggles with is instead of getting a prescription or a surgery for an issue or for a a symptom or a lab value, what's happening now is we're throwing a therapy or a supplement at a lab value.
28:50
Instead of truly understanding you have a symptom, you have a lab value, that means this system has an issue.
I mean, we'll talk about like with you, you know, and with Flopresso, right?
This is huge for me.
It's everything should tell a story and it says, OK, look, I know these lab values mean this.
29:07
I know these mean this, but what really all that means going on is we've got stagnated lymph due to this issue, due to this issue, and it's driving a pain syndrome or it's driving your immune system to produce abnormal amounts of inflammation or dysregulated amounts of inflammation because we have a system over here that's broken.
29:28
So yes, I can see that maybe your lipid panels off, your hormones might be off, some of your inflammatory markers might be off, but it has nothing to do with any of those.
It has to do with the system over here that's broken.
You know, we use Flopresso in our clinic because that's like, man, if I can't get the garbage collector to go through and get rid of everything and then teach it to do its job on its own.
29:51
And the garbage collector being the lymph system, I can put a lot of really cool stuff in the body, but it's not going to do what I need it to do because the other systems aren't working the way it's supposed to.
So this approach for pain, for illness has to be truly understanding the mechanisms, teaching that and then building what I call a, a program, protocol or an experience for the patient that actually drives an outcome, not just therapy, shopping, supplement shopping.
30:23
And you know, it's like, oh, someone said I need to heal my gut.
So they gave me this.
I'm like, well, cool.
But like, that's not what you need because that's not why you have a problem with your gut.
And so anyway, that's yeah, how we got there.
But that's.
Well, you know, I think where we're like landing here right now is like you need to do both the education and empowerment piece, but you also need to deliver an experience in a clinical practice that arrives at an outcome, you know, is a clinician.
30:54
When I was like running like Institute for Functional Health coaching, when I was running a full practice, I had a timeline in which I had to deliver a new state of being or that person is not hanging around very long.
So this is and, and at that time I was working, I really wasn't working with any tools.
31:11
This is all lifestyle stuff.
I'm not a doctor.
So what my mentor, doctor Dixon Tom in Scottsdale, AZ, people will go there to the clinic for a week and they're immersed in hyperbaric and vibrational sound bad and flopresso in nano V and IV vitamin infusions and transcranial magnetic stem.
31:34
And they have a thing where the body's like, I feel good.
And I think there's, you know, there's two things to take from that.
It's like, yes, you had support, right?
You had support from tech that complemented pathways in the body that existed and you just got evidentiary proof that you can do it.
31:55
Like you can feel this way.
Now.
The reality is, unless you had an never ending funds, which I don't think you want that to be your life plugged in all these things all the time, but it's not realistic.
So how do you take that lesson that you got in the in the clinical practice?
32:11
And how do you again work with the other pieces?
Like we're saying like, well, that now, is there an internal story or question could be like, Hey, hey, look what you just did body.
Is this valid?
It's like, can you celebrate this experience?
Are you interested in feeling like this more?
You know, so I think to your point, like how you're stacking therapies in a clinic is very important, you know, and not having like, here's our hundred devices and 100 supplements.
32:36
It's like, you know, intentionally understanding what does your little like, you know, what does your road map look like here over the next few months so we can show you like a little bit improvement in your terrain.
Yep, totally, totally.
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34:07
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Now we'll go back to our show.
The one phrase that's like keep coming to my mind over and over in this discussion, and that's another mindset piece, but I think it's also another reality piece that we teach daily is what we call the upside to pain or the upside to illness, especially when dealing with chronic.
34:32
And what I mean by that is, and most people don't realize this until they're on the other side, but it's we'll use pain for the example, right?
I mean, if you've had chronic pain in your back for years, eventually there becomes an upside where I mean, quite literally, you're potentially not able to do a lot of stuff.
34:50
You're not able to lift a ton of things, maybe do some types of jobs.
So over time, certain things are less expected of you.
Same with like a chronic illness and you can't get out of bed, you have fatigue and it's real, right?
And so there's less expected.
You have something that you identify with to talk about that gives attention, that gives validity to what you are and who you are.
35:11
And we see this all the time, that at some point through a healing journey of pain or chronic illness, as your function starts to improve, there's almost like this roadblock.
That's why, hold on a second.
As I get better, as I don't have these symptoms and I'm able to do more, more is expected of me.
35:31
There's less sympathy.
I have to get up and go to work or I have to do these types of things or I have to cook meals and take care of the kids.
And the warning that we give is that's what you want.
That's what you came in here for.
But that survival mechanism in your brain says, well, wait a second.
35:50
And look, I see this in our gym all the time.
That person that always talks about their bad shoulder, they have something to talk about to everybody and identify with and get attention from.
And it's like, and I'm like, why don't you come in and get treatment?
Like, yeah, I got I got to do something about it.
36:05
But they never do because the moment it goes away, they lose a status, right?
And it's the same with illness.
And so we teach this upside of pain or this upside of illness because the upside is there is some form of attention and validity and less expectation.
36:25
And so I remind people all the time, look, you know, you actually want expectation.
You don't want to be popular because you're sick.
You don't want to be this.
You want to have the challenge of getting up and going to work and being paying, you know, and like getting back into society.
36:41
And so that's a big piece too that I think is as you're doing all this.
And that's why we get really clear on what are your goals and what's your vision and we're going to help you get there.
So This is why I call it a patient experience because it's more than just here's these supplements, do these Ivs do this and you're going to get better.
36:59
It's like the experiences we're on a racetrack now to get you to a finish line and it's a multi faceted approach that gets you there.
Yeah, 100 percent, 100% how verse.
I mean, it's a very.
This is not the average you didn't.
37:16
This is not the average conversation clinics have with patients that are seeking.
They just, I mean, it's very unheard.
I mean, it's great.
I'm sure people are listening to this to be like, wow, my doctors never even asked me if I sleep or what I eat or how I feel.
You know, it's not normal how many people work in the clinic.
37:32
I'm just interested.
So currently we have about 10 employees, you know, that's a mix of part time, full time health coaches, some remote.
And so, you know, everybody kind of fills a role in that.
But we also talked about that, you know, from the beginning to end, everybody has a role and everybody's healing journey from when you answer the phone to when you greet them at the door to when you check them out and deal with their finances.
37:57
To put an IV in there aren't like every experience can be a healing experience.
And even if you're just, you know, the therapy tech that's putting them in or out of the H bot, your interaction with them is a healing experience.
So.
Yeah, profound, profound.
38:16
Yeah, It's beautiful to hear.
There's a level of awareness happening at at clinics, you know, 'cause it's it again, it's not the norm.
How do you deal with the OR who deals with this financial piece?
You know, a lot of the stuff we've mentioned on this podcast is not covered under typical insurance models.
38:37
You know, there there are often times when after you've been in this loop of chronic illness long enough, you find yourself, you know, it's very common to have people go through bankruptcy and be maxed out on their credit card.
So how do you have that conversation with people when they need it?
38:54
You know, they need to walk through a different door.
And the financial piece is a challenging point of contention.
Yeah, so I had a patient tell me once they met with a quote, you know, functional medicine practitioner.
And I thought this was fascinating that he said this to a patient, but he said, look, I could literally bankrupt every patient if I wanted to.
39:15
I'm like, well, first of all, that's interesting 'cause I never thought about that, but you're right.
So who handles that?
I mean, our team does, you know, we have people that have those financial discussions with people.
Again, I think this is this is one of the biggest challenges.
I think if I could treat people for free and be able to support my family and keep our lights on our business, I might find a way to do it.
39:36
But you know, fortunately therapies cost money to deliver and staff.
And so, you know, I'll tell you, at least in our area, most of the therapies that we offer were significantly less expensive.
But it's still cost money, you know.
39:52
So where we might offer an IV that might we might charge 150 bucks for down the road, somebody might be charging 3 or $400.00 for that.
And so, you know, it's balancing business and Healthcare is an interesting thing because it's like, look, yeah, I got to be able to keep the lights on and deliver the care that we have.
40:10
And things cost money and, and I think, you know, again, having living lived through this as a patient, we can tell that story too of like, look, I was there.
I know it was like every couple of months having to come up with several $1000 for well, we did this.
We got a shift, we got to move, we got to do.
40:27
So, you know, we've explored some different things over the years and honestly consistently try to explore new and different ways to try to ease that burden and make it more sustainable.
I'm also very upfront with people of like look like, you know, I don't know what you've been told, but this is probably a, you know, a multi year process, but that doesn't mean you're doing everything every day for multi years.
40:55
And so it's kind of trying to draw this line of beginning to end and set some type of expectations.
But yeah, from a monetary standpoint, like I probably we probably under charge on a lot of things and could do more, which again is a delicate balance of, you know, being a business owner and being profitable, which is a big deal.
41:18
But I also believe that you could have the coolest things in your building, but if nobody can take advantage of them, it doesn't matter.
So it's how do you find a balance?
And it's a fine balance and all even, you know, transparency.
I feel like we are constantly looking at that and trying to figure that out and, you know, and shifting and adapting even some of our pricing models and how we go about that with people because I want people to get better.
41:45
I want people to have access to care that matters.
You know, I have a family and I've got employees that have families and I don't think people are, most patients are aware of that.
But then again, you have to deal with the, you know the heartburn of you know where they've been through already.
42:05
That's right.
And be sympathetic to that.
And what I find sometimes some people are like, hey, here's the first phase of the plan and it looks like this, let's dive in.
Some might say, I can do this right now.
So it's like, cool, let's do that, but let's do that 100%.
42:23
And sometimes what I find is if you can, you know, clinically, if you can show both biochemically and symptomatically that you can move the needle for somebody, that's where they're like, OK, I can figure out how to do more.
Or I'm a big proponent of like, look, if we as a clinic can together with you, get you to the point where we at you're not there, but hey, you can make it back to work a little bit more.
42:49
Or you can support your home or your spouse can get back to work more because they aren't having to take time out from work to take care of you because your symptoms are improving.
If that's where you can make actually an amazing shift for a household where their ability to generate income changes.
43:09
And so one, that changes their family's life, but two, it actually makes their access to care different.
You know, I deal a lot with like biotoxin illness and mold illness.
And there's a lot of practitioners who will not take a patient on until they are out of proven exposure, meaning they're out of their home that might have been a mold home.
43:30
And I'm like, that's not feasible for like 90% of people.
But here they are dealing with brain atrophy and multi system symptoms.
And so it's like, look, if we can get you 510, fifteen, 20% better, it gives you the capacity to handle this exposure issue, to handle the where you need to get to issue to live life a little bit more.
43:53
So I mean, to be honest, I think the pricing conversation about all this is a complex one, but I'll even say sometimes the patients who have all the money don't they don't want they're like less apartment to spend it.
44:09
Then I would say maybe somebody who's financially struggling, but it's, you know, taking a large enough toll on their life that they're willing to do what it takes to get better.
And so, you know, that's kind of this interesting progress of understanding that middle ground.
44:25
And I would say, you know, we have a lot of the tools I don't focus on like, a lot of kind of what I would call like the elite biohacking community of like, hey, come pay 30 grand and you get, you know, 800 lab markers and we're going to give you a plant.
44:42
Like, because I also find a lot of the times those people don't end up doing anything.
So it's like, cool, we made money on your analysis, but you're like, yeah, that's too much hard work.
I got 18 meetings and I'll have my assistant contact you to schedule.
And it's like the stakes for them aren't high enough to get better.
44:59
And the life change that they'd feel is here, where someone who hasn't been able to get out of bed for the last 10 years, the life changes, it's here, right?
We're off the screen.
It's significant.
But I think as a practitioner, it's also my duty to wrestle with this financial issue and be transparent with patients.
45:20
I mean, like, I probably could be making a lot more money than I am, you know, but charging a fraction of probably what we could charge.
But people have access, and access is something that's really important to me.
Yeah, yeah.
To join with you in that, I often find for me it was and I've this is more of a, a rearview mirror discovery.
45:41
It's like looking back and understanding.
I was like, Oh, wow, what I was doing there, I was reallocating funds, whether it was renting a room in my 2 bedroom apartment on Airbnb or for a while, I dropped health insurance and did a health share because the health insurance was really just, you know, that's if I go into the hospital again, that's if I need antibiotics.
46:03
And, and even the health share is, is, you know, some of the different ones are covering that.
So a lot of times that financial, we can just go back and like, well, what's our, what are we spending money on monthly, you know, or it's going through, you know, your cabinet And I was like, well, what are you spending the money on now as far as supplements and let's, let's have a deeper conversation on if you need any of those, you understand, if they're doing anything for you.
46:24
So that's always been a fun exercise for me to do it with family and friends.
And I'm like, I bet you the money for this 20 sessions of hyperbaric might already be in the budget.
It might not be now, but we might be able to get there in four months if we just move some stuff around.
Totally.
Yeah, 100%.
46:41
Yeah, if we think about, I want to do because just because you do you work with so much chronic pain, chronic issues, where do the regenerative therapies of stem cells and exosomes fall into your practice?
Is that something you work with?
Yeah.
46:56
So I'd say this, it's a newer addition to our practice and that's a world that I've kept my eye on for a really long time because I'm probably in the camp that I believe there's a future there, but we might not have the best clarity compared to some other things.
47:17
So the short answer is yes, we use some regenerative tissue products in our clinic, both injectables and systemic, so IV type therapies that we offer.
But I will tell you, I'm very clear on all of the above that it is a piece of the puzzle.
47:33
You know, for instance, I say we're not just an inject and see you later clinic.
There's a lot of those, you know, they might charge, you know, $10,000 for an injection in your knee and they inject you and say, hey, we'll follow up with you in six months and see how you feel.
You know, it's, it kind of goes back to a similar conversation that I've had with a surgeon that I work with all the time and is basically like, look, I can fix the injury, but I can't fix the 'cause I think regenerative products are very similar.
48:00
They can help rebuild and, you know, restructure or induce those processes.
But that joint tissue, for instance, didn't get there because of a lack of stem cells, right?
48:17
It didn't get there because of a lack of a exosome.
So we're talking about joints, for instance, like it got there because there is some sort of stimulus that happened that caused layers and layers of neuromuscular compensation and muscle imbalances that have made it so that you walk this way now.
48:34
And in the early stages, you didn't even notice this.
You kept playing tennis or kept playing basketball or kept running or cross fitting or whatever for years and years.
And I kind of like my knee kind of feels this way.
But you know, and you might even, you know, massage gun, you might even gotten some treatment done, a little bit of rehab, but maybe the underlying actual neuromuscular imbalances weren't handled appropriately.
48:55
And to really shift the gait that you're having, you know, I say our bodies are master compensators.
So now here you are 1020 years later and we took an MRI of your knee and now you have cartilage thinning.
So you have to get a knee replacement or we can inject stem cells in there and it's going to regrow everything.
49:11
Well, first of all, it's not going to regrow everything.
And there's no study yet that actually shows that there's a magical injection, but we do know is these products are phenomenal with bringing in healing mechanisms and helping to stimulate your body's natural ability to produce these processes.
49:31
So it really they're kind of like an accelerant in my mind.
But again, you know, same as like like I had my knees scoped a few years ago with some stuff that happened.
And but unless I actually do the work rehab wise and rehab's a weird term, but really movement medicine and neuromuscular retraining and reconditioning and really starting to shift how your muscles are firing and what those imbalances look like.
49:57
Measure, map, activate, shift, change and then strengthen on top of those.
I mean, look, people can be pain free and extremely, highly active on a joint that has thinning cartilage.
And that goes back to the analogy that says, you know, that I say if it weren't for your muscles, your soft tissue, your connective tissue and the nervous system that controls it, your bones would be in a pile on the floor.
50:20
So that thinning cartilage didn't happen because it's a cartilage issue or a joint issue.
It happened because this master compensatory system kicked in as a protective mechanism.
So yeah, so for me, we will do stem cell or regenerative product therapies in our clinic, but they are all like, I will always recommend it as part of a full plan of everything we just talked about.
50:50
Because it's like, look, a lot of people get these and they'll feel what I call a honeymoon or a transient benefit from it.
But if they don't re change all of the underlying mechanical problems, then eventually they're going to be right back where they were before.
51:06
And so it's like, look, I'll do this therapy or we'll do this therapy with you in our clinic, but I'm going to do it in the midst of a full rehab experience that is actually addressing the underlying issues that have come from this.
Yeah, yeah, beautifully said.
51:23
I know from my experience, you got to do both, right?
It's kind of like saying we can throw new tires on the car, but we've never adjusted the alignment and you've actually got a broken axle, but let's throw them on even though they're really, they're going to look good.
51:40
But we're we're really, we're really not fixing anything with it.
It really does need a whole body, whole spirit, whole mind approach.
Yeah, it's really, it's really good to hear.
It's always good to hear it framed in the right context or a perspective.
You're working in clinical practice, so you've seen these things work and not work right.
51:59
And I just want everybody to hear that at home.
Like, you know, I always had a story that there was my lack of healing or progress is because I didn't have enough money for a hyperbaric or I didn't have enough money for, you know, 10 pass ozone, you name the thing.
It changes over time, but it's really the things that I'm willing to do as far as a lifestyle perspective every day.
52:19
It's the small steps like waking up.
And you know, it could just be, I could say meditate, but it for me, it can also be, I have an outdoor shower.
It can just be showering outside because I'm looking at the sunlight.
I'm in nature.
There's no other noise happening.
I'm grounding my feet on the concrete and it's a great moment of serenity.
52:39
It's very short, but you know, most days for me, that's like unless the shower's broken, that's like how I have my moment in nature every single day.
And it's a little one.
But man is it is different from plopping on the couch and going through and see who commented on an Instagram story yesterday.
52:57
It's very different program running in my mind.
You know, it could be when I sit, even when I make a smoothie, not gulping it down, understanding that the blender is a technology that doesn't really honor the process of 30 bites per food in which my brain is, is eliciting a cascade of, you know, catecholamines and and transmitters to say, Hey, Freddie, it's time to digest this shit, right?
53:23
I'm use a lot of the stuff you just sit down and if you just have that power of pause, you're like, and ask yourself, it's like, how do I feel?
What do I want?
You know, and, and is this a, is what I'm taking into my body or what I'm offering my body?
Is it a convenience to which there's possible like an unrealized costs to, you know, we're doing a podcast.
53:45
I had an Instagram Live.
I got a webinar at noon.
But the next thing I'm doing is I have to unload the car from the event.
So I'm going to throw the weighted vest on.
It's only going to take me, you know, 20 minutes to put everything away, but I'm going to do it with a 45 LB weighted vest.
54:02
So I'll get a little cardiovascular pump.
So I'm always thinking like, you know, where can I engineer in the things and stop this story that I don't have time to work out today 'cause that is such a story.
And I don't mean that in a pointed way to people.
I mean that like I promise you, there's a way to get it in that isn't extra.
54:21
It's just different layer you might not have thought about yet.
Totally love that.
Love that thank.
You.
Yeah, it's real.
I want to ask you just like 2 follow up questions, you know, again, just for fun because you have a lot of cool tech in the office.
Tell me something you just love for most people, because I know there are things you're like.
54:41
Oh, that could be good for.
You, but maybe not you and you might have a bias on things, but even I'd love to hear your bias and practice what's like a technology you just love to have kind of recommend for everybody.
Yeah, I would say so probably the first thing, and this is what I teach our clinicians, but also everybody else that I come in contact with.
54:58
So I mean, hyperbarics is a huge component of what we do.
We have four of them in our clinic and we could save this for another conversation.
But the form and style that we use is so safe, so healthy.
So like we've got over 20,000 hours without an adverse reaction that it's like it gives me confidence to say yes to a lot of things because it's like, like, I don't know, but I understand the mechanisms and this is safe, so let's do it.
55:27
And so, you know, my wife once asked me like, other than some of the complete contraindications, like is there anybody that I would not recommend that for?
And really the answer is no.
And I mean, and we put everything from my newborn in there to grandma's in there.
55:43
So I would say that's probably #1 and I would say probably the other thing, like my wife and I talked about this all the time, like if we had all the things at our house, what are the two things that we would really want?
And the answer is it's hyperbarics and far infrared sauna.
But I will tell you and I'll, I'll send you this picture someday.
56:02
If there's a close third, it probably, and this is not because it's you, right?
But if there's a third closest, it's probably the Flopresso 1 feels amazing too.
If you do it combined with something like brain tap, like, oh man, you're giving somebody like the best 40 minute nap that they've ever had in their life.
56:20
I have a picture of my teenage son on there with the brain tap on and just like checked out.
And it's like, and that's again, where for me, it's like, how can I stack into an experience that sometimes the same time, same day or in a plan, you know, these types of things to create ultimate.
56:38
But I, I would say those three things, especially because again, like the barrier of who can use those is so low and the outcomes and all of the above are so potentially high.
And that's one of the things I love too, is, you know, what's something that can really help most people with the smallest barrier of entry, with the highest health outcomes?
57:02
Yeah, beautiful.
Yeah, I join with you and all those paramount breathe, sweat, let go.
Like if you had three.
I mean, it doesn't.
Again, you can build quite a mansion with those tools directed in the right way and in the right context.
57:18
You know, it's such a polarizing world right now.
You know, what are we?
We're April 14th for 2025.
Whenever people listen to this.
So we can, you can go back and Google, if you listen to this five years later and look at what's happening in the world.
But what would you if you?
Could have a magic wand and you can TuneIn everybody's cell phone and you could say something as a message of hope or unity.
57:40
What would you say to the people of the planet right now?
Oh man, that's like.
I know it's a big stage.
I think I don't know, and I probably would answer this in different ways when asked at different times.
I think probably one of the things that I, it would be some version of this, 'cause this is stuff that I'm working through with my own life and family life, but it's regardless of what circumstances we're living in, if we give gratitude first, it will open our eyes to see the unconventional solutions or problem solving that's going on around us and allow us to see our circumstances differently.
58:26
There's a quote from a leader of my church where he says joy has very little to do with the circumstances of your life and everything to do with the focus of your life.
And so that's where I would say if there's like a message, it's like like whatever you're going through, physical, inflammatory, mental, emotional, finding something to be grounded in gratitude will help to shift that focus.
58:55
So that regardless of what you're going through and what you're experiencing, gratitude opens your eyes to see the unconventional solutions that are happening, which can help you overcome and can help drive joy regardless of the circumstances that you're in.
59:12
Yeah, beautifully said, Beautifully said.
And where can people find you, whether it's the Internet or Instagram or where can people learn more about your clinic and your practice?
Yeah, probably the best place is, you know, our website for our clinic is www.themovement.clinic.
59:29
That's probably the best place to find me and and I can connect you to meet us to our social media, all those types of things.
Wonderful, wonderful.
Well, we'll do it again.
Can't wait for this to get out.
What a great what a great conversation and great way to start my morning.
59:45
Appreciate you.
Yeah, I love you.
Thank you.
Yeah, big love.
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1:01:22
We're about to Crest into year 6.
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I'm so glad you're still here.
And I just wanted to remind you, if you like the show, please head over to Apple or Spotify and give us a five star review.
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Beautifully Broken all one word and they do support the podcast through affiliations.
Now if you want to see the faces of our guest and you want to watch me unbox products and see reviews, you can go over to YouTube at Beautifully Broken World.
1:02:24
Now this next message is from my vast team of Internet lawyers.
The information on this podcast is for education.
By listening, you agree not to use the information found here as medical advice to treat, diagnose or cure any medical condition in yourself or others.
1:02:41
Always consult your guiding position for actual medical issues you may be having.
Now, in my closing, we are truly in a paradigm shift.
We need you at your very best.
So use these conversations as a jumping off point for further exploration.
1:03:00
Always listen to your own body and remember, while life may be painful, how we put the pieces back together is a beautiful, beautiful process.
I love you so much.
I'm your host, Freddie Kimmel.